*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7672
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #4420 on: September 25, 2019, 02:54:21 PM »
Well its out and... Its not alot but its not nothing either.

Trump Asked Ukrainian President For 'A Favor' On Biden; DOJ Says No Charges https://n.pr/2n4Uu4j


If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4421 on: September 25, 2019, 03:35:20 PM »
No he didn't.

Trump wanted an investigation of the issues.

Biden was not a private citizen when he demanded no investigation.

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7672
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #4422 on: September 25, 2019, 03:51:19 PM »
No he didn't.

Trump wanted an investigation of the issues.

Biden was not a private citizen when he demanded no investigation.

What issue?
Because if its a law Biden broke, well, Trump should have brought up charges officially, not passed it off to a foreign government.   

Also, when did Biden demand no investigation as VP?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #4423 on: September 25, 2019, 04:06:53 PM »
Well its out and... Its not alot but its not nothing either.

Trump Asked Ukrainian President For 'A Favor' On Biden; DOJ Says No Charges https://n.pr/2n4Uu4j

A lot will hinge on if they can connect the withholding of military aid to Trump’s request, I think.

They could also take a page from the Republican playbook with Bill Clinton and use this as a pretext to make something else the issue.

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7672
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #4424 on: September 25, 2019, 05:26:01 PM »
So apparently they didn't release the transcript.  They released an edited version, written by people who wrote it down as it was being said but isn't verbatim.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/zoetillman/trump-ukraine-call-transcript-biden-impeachment?__twitter_impression=true

That article has a link to the transcript.  Read the warning at the bottom of page 1.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 05:32:59 PM by Lord Dave »
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7672
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #4425 on: September 25, 2019, 07:28:04 PM »
Also, reading it...

God what the fuck?  Zelenskyy sucked up to Trump so hard.  Guess you have to.
I mean, this is a very clear case of Trump having power over another world leader (aide, trade, etc...) And expecting said leader to do things for him.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

*

Offline honk

  • *
  • Posts: 3357
  • resident goose
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #4426 on: September 26, 2019, 05:21:00 AM »
Trump asking a foreign leader to investigate a political rival shortly before an election with the subject of military assistance to that country currently being an unsettled issue is ample evidence of his corruption and unfitness for office, and a more than good enough reason to impeach and convict him. The apologists who insist that this actually exonerates Trump because he didn't explicitly threaten the minister with withholding military aid, or explicitly spell out that this was for his own political gain, will never be satisfied, because that's now how real people talk in real life. Nobody would ever have their own words used against them in court going by this unreasonably high standard of evidence. Of course military aid was on the line for this agreement to investigate Biden. Trump knew it, Zelensky knew it, and you knew it. It didn't need to be spelled out for everyone to know it. And of course Trump was doing this for his own political gain. He didn't give a shit about Biden's son and this supposed corruption issue until very recently, when he saw an opportunity to use it against him. This wasn't some natural concern for the president that just organically drifted across his desk. Everybody knows it. Trying to deny what's so clearly obvious is just playing dumb.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 01:18:36 AM by honk »
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10662
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #4427 on: September 26, 2019, 06:48:04 AM »

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7672
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #4428 on: September 26, 2019, 08:43:50 AM »
https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelrgallas/status/1177024413272641536?s=21



So Joe Biden has been formally charged with a crime in America?
Has an official probe been launched?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 7672
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #4429 on: September 26, 2019, 10:10:56 AM »
Also, reading it, it sounds like you need to submit a formal request.  Which Trump did not do.  Thus, the treaty doesn't apply.  Its not for 'hey, can ya look into this guy because I said so?'

Now its possible Trump didn't know of the legal issues but he should have asked the AG to do it since the AG is the point of contact for the issue and not the president or who the president appoints.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4430 on: September 26, 2019, 10:34:24 AM »
No he didn't.

Trump wanted an investigation of the issues.

Biden was not a private citizen when he demanded no investigation.

What issue?
Because if its a law Biden broke, well, Trump should have brought up charges officially, not passed it off to a foreign government.   

Also, when did Biden demand no investigation as VP?
It is on videotape.

HE told the Ukrainians you get no money unless you fire the prosecutor investigating the oil company (the same one employing Hunter Biden on its board of directors).

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4431 on: September 26, 2019, 10:36:37 AM »
So apparently they didn't release the transcript.  They released an edited version, written by people who wrote it down as it was being said but isn't verbatim.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/zoetillman/trump-ukraine-call-transcript-biden-impeachment?__twitter_impression=true

That article has a link to the transcript.  Read the warning at the bottom of page 1.
The transcript they released is unedited.

There is never a dictaphone inside the area to record the call.

Democrats knew this when they asked for the transcript.

The people employed to make a recording the words uttered during such phone calls have done this for years.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 10:55:15 AM by totallackey »

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4432 on: September 26, 2019, 10:38:05 AM »
Also, reading it...

God what the fuck?  Zelenskyy sucked up to Trump so hard.  Guess you have to.
I mean, this is a very clear case of Trump having power over another world leader (aide, trade, etc...) And expecting said leader to do things for him.
What's wrong with this exactly?

I expect leaders to do things for me.

You expect leaders to do things for you, right?

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4433 on: September 26, 2019, 10:41:24 AM »
Also, reading it, it sounds like you need to submit a formal request.  Which Trump did not do.  Thus, the treaty doesn't apply.  Its not for 'hey, can ya look into this guy because I said so?'

Now its possible Trump didn't know of the legal issues but he should have asked the AG to do it since the AG is the point of contact for the issue and not the president or who the president appoints.
Trump, I remind you, is the Executive In Chief, and as such, can request an investigation from anyone he likes.

He needs no one else to sign off on the request.

He could pick up the phone right now and call the Queen of England and ask her to investigate whatever...

I don't know where you are getting your points from, but they are simply wrong.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4434 on: September 26, 2019, 10:50:13 AM »
Trump asking a foreign leader to investigate a political rival shortly before an election with the subject of military assistance to that country currently being an unsettled issue is ample evidence of his corruption and unfitness for office, and a more than good enough reason to impeach and convict him. The apologists who insist that this actually exonerates Trump because he didn't explicitly threaten the minister with withholding military aid, or explicitly spell out that this was for his own political gain, will never be satisfied, because that's now how real people talk in real life. Nobody would ever have their own words used against them in court going by this unreasonably high standard of evidence. Of course military aid was on the line for this agreement to investigate Biden. Trump knew it, Zelensky knew it, and you knew it. It didn't need to be spelled out for everyone to know it. And of course Trump was doing this for his own political gain. He didn't give a shit about the Biden's son and this supposed corruption issue until very recently, when he saw an opportunity to use it against him. This wasn't some natural concern for the president that just organically drifted across his desk. Everybody knows it. Trying to deny what's so clearly obvious is just playing dumb.
I think you need to rethink the whole reasoning about what motivates Trump apologists regarding this matter.

You see, there is no evidence that anything you have written in this polemic is true.

What you write is not obvious.

But just in case, go ahead and point to the lines in the transcript for everyone. You know, the line where Trump says to Zelensky, "Either investigate the Biden issue or else you get no military aid!"

By the way, when you do that, point to a law that says this is illegal.

Cause when you do, the actual videotape (still currently airing on YouTube since it was first recorded) of Biden bragging about exactly that type of behavior will be right here...

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/24/watch-joe-biden-brag-about-bribing-ukraine-to-fire-the-prosecutor-investigating-his-sons-company/

"While the whistleblower complaint is based on hearsay, we do know that Joe Biden, while serving as vice president, pressured the Ukrainian government to fire the prosecutor who was investigating his son’s company. Hunter Biden joined the board of Ukrainian national gas company Burisma in 2014 while his father was managing the United States’ Ukraine policy and despite zero personal experience in the field. At the time Hunter Biden joined its board, Burisma was embroiled in allegations of corruption, allegations serious enough that Ukraine’s prosecutor general launched an investigation into the company."
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 10:56:12 AM by totallackey »

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #4435 on: September 26, 2019, 12:00:56 PM »
Yeah, don't let the fact Biden is on videotape admitting he would withhold one billion USD if Ukraine didn't fire the prosecutor investigating the oil company employing Hunter Biden get in the way of reality...and forget it was the NYT who reported the story in May of this year...

The entire US administration and the EU wanted that guy gone... as the NYT reported in May as well.
You mean the same playbook administration and EU who made WMD's from thin air and told us said WMD's were in Iraq?

*

Offline Roundy

  • Abdicator of the Zetetic Council
  • *
  • Posts: 4194
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #4436 on: September 26, 2019, 01:11:26 PM »
But just in case, go ahead and point to the lines in the transcript for everyone. You know, the line where Trump says to Zelensky, "Either investigate the Biden issue or else you get no military aid!"

Trevor Noah does a brilliant job highlighting the utter absurdity of the "no explicit quid pro quo" argument toward the end of this clip.



It starts about five minutes in.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 12:53:11 AM by Roundy »
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Re: Trump
« Reply #4437 on: September 26, 2019, 01:53:39 PM »
how could anyone possibly be so naive as to think trump gives a shit about corruption in ukraine.  or literally anything else that happens in ukraine.
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16082
  • (◕˽ ◕ ✿)
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #4438 on: September 26, 2019, 01:59:49 PM »
how could anyone possibly be so naive as to think trump gives a shit about corruption in ukraine.  or literally anything else that happens in ukraine.
I'm confused - Trump's entire campaign has been about uprooting corrupt elites and draining swamps. Of course this would extend to countries the USA has signed mutual legal assistance treaties with. Are you suggesting that the President was lying?
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

*

Offline crutonius

  • *
  • Posts: 676
  • Just a regular guy. No funny business here.
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #4439 on: September 26, 2019, 02:05:32 PM »
how could anyone possibly be so naive as to think trump gives a shit about corruption in ukraine.  or literally anything else that happens in ukraine.
I'm confused - Trump's entire campaign has been about uprooting corrupt elites and draining swamps. Of course this would extend to countries the USA has signed mutual legal assistance treaties with. Are you suggesting that the President was lying?

Indeed.  And let us not forget that Trump has fired or forced out a record number of cabinet officials that were corrupt enough to work for Trump.

In addition.  many people focus on the criminality of conspiring with a foreign power to subvert our elections but not a lot of people are pointing out that he's fulfilling his campaign promise of directing his AG to investigate his opponents. 

Promises made.  Promises kept.