# The Flat Earth Society

## Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Scorer on March 05, 2014, 05:37:03 PM

Title: Edges...
Post by: Scorer on March 05, 2014, 05:37:03 PM
Greetings

So, if Earth is indeed flat and it is a disc, how do the edges work? How is it possible to travel from certain points which would be near the edges in less time? For me and my bare eyes evidence (as you so much praise) this would indicate a spheric world instead of a flat one.

A precise map of your model would be appreciated to explain this.

Thanks
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: jroa on March 05, 2014, 06:05:47 PM
How have you calculated that the time is less on a spherical world?
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Scorer on March 05, 2014, 06:12:58 PM
I'm waiting on a map to be provided...
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: jroa on March 05, 2014, 06:18:38 PM
And I am waiting for you to tell us the calculations that you used to determine that the distances can only occur on a sphere.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Scorer on March 05, 2014, 06:21:40 PM
You are the ones running this show, the ball is in your court. I have no interest in convincing you. I'm here respectfully to learn about your stand points. But it seems this is what everyone says, just a waste of time.

That is my emphirical appreciation. I hope someone else comes to clarify my queries.

Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Tintagel on March 05, 2014, 08:44:12 PM
You are the ones running this show, the ball is in your court. I have no interest in convincing you. I'm here respectfully to learn about your stand points. But it seems this is what everyone says, just a waste of time.

That is my emphirical appreciation. I hope someone else comes to clarify my queries.

Hello Scorer, welcome to TFES.

In short, it depends on who you ask.  There are a few different flat earth maps on the wiki, but as with any map, none are exact, in part because we're not cartographers.   I don't think one needs to have scores of figures to prove a flat earth - simple observation does that.  Facts and figured can be flawed.  I do have some calculations I'm working on dealing with the way light works, but as far as geography (particularly in the southern hemidisc where distances are so hotly contested) I'm admittedly not an expert.  However, blindly using data based upon how far something *should* be on a spherical earth (like a recent discussion on air routes from Australia to the Falklands - a route which only exists in theory, as no planes actually fly it) is fallacy, and around here we tend to emphasize observational evidence over Google-powered research.

So, if Earth is indeed flat and it is a disc, how do the edges work? How is it possible to travel from certain points which would be near the edges in less time? For me and my bare eyes evidence (as you so much praise) this would indicate a spheric world instead of a flat one.
Thanks

As for edges, I strongly suspect that there are no edges at all and that the earth is an infinite plane that it loops back onto itself, but that's purely theoretical on my part.  This model, however, doesn't suffer from the same distance related problems that the monopolar disc does.  Even still, evidence that those distance problems even exist is highly debatable.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: inquisitive on March 05, 2014, 10:24:40 PM
Why not look at flight times in the southern hemisphere.  There are flights to the south pole that may interest some here.

Does anyone dispute the distances on a spherical earth that are used by everyone?  All the alignments for satellite tv are based on, and work with, a spherical earth.

Seems strange there is still no flat earth map after all the years of discussion.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Scorer on March 06, 2014, 01:40:03 AM

As for edges, I strongly suspect that there are no edges at all and that the earth is an infinite plane that it loops back onto itself, but that's purely theoretical on my part.  This model, however, doesn't suffer from the same distance related problems that the monopolar disc does.  Even still, evidence that those distance problems even exist is highly debatable.

So, if this last is true, I shold be able to see the back of my neck with a good telescope by climbing an average mountain, right?
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: markjo on March 06, 2014, 03:04:49 AM

As for edges, I strongly suspect that there are no edges at all and that the earth is an infinite plane that it loops back onto itself, but that's purely theoretical on my part.  This model, however, doesn't suffer from the same distance related problems that the monopolar disc does.  Even still, evidence that those distance problems even exist is highly debatable.

So, if this last is true, I shold be able to see the back of my neck with a good telescope by climbing an average mountain, right?
That depends.  Do you have a telescope that can resolve a human neck through many thousands of miles of atmosphere?
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Scorer on March 06, 2014, 03:36:46 AM
How about something big? Like a Mountain, a specific mountain?
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 03:56:30 AM
How about something big? Like a Mountain, a specific mountain?
Given that on top of Mt Everest you can see about as far as 210 miles, you're unlikely to approach the 25,000-ish miles you'd need.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Scorer on March 06, 2014, 04:03:24 AM
Then, if the falt earth is wrapped infintely as stated before... Wouldn't we be able too see a lot of moons? It is th same, but as the world is endlessly wrapped, we should see the moon a lot of times, and the moon is big enough for it.

Unless of course you have also special rules for the moon I'm unaware of...
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 04:10:05 AM
Then, if the falt earth is wrapped infintely as stated before... Wouldn't we be able too see a lot of moons?
No, we shouldn't, because of the Pythagorean theorem. Any other instance of the moon would be much farther away, and thus also invisible.

Unless of course you have also special rules for the moon I'm unaware of...
You poor soul. Have you tried reading the Wiki?
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Scorer on March 06, 2014, 04:13:39 AM
I find "you poor soul" as offensive, I have not been offensive. Thanks.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 04:18:40 AM
I find "you poor soul" as offensive, I have not been offensive. Thanks.
And I find referring to us as "a waste of time" and asking about "special rules" to be offensive. As you can see, what people "find as offensive" means very little in the real world.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Scorer on March 06, 2014, 04:35:20 AM
1) I did not accused you of waste of time, I was only saying what others say.

2) In that case, if you are so different and so sensible, don't go inviting people to join the forums, if everyone is going to bet bashed like this. I have been polite all the way and I do appreciate that Tintagel aswered me poiltely.

And not even with these attacks will I be unpolite.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 06, 2014, 05:13:03 AM
I have been polite all the way[...]

And not even with these attacks will I be unpolite.
No, I've just pointed out two ways in which you have been impolite. If you're allowed to randomly take offence to my wording of things, then so am I. Live up to your own standards.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Tintagel on March 06, 2014, 05:29:05 AM

As for edges, I strongly suspect that there are no edges at all and that the earth is an infinite plane that it loops back onto itself, but that's purely theoretical on my part.  This model, however, doesn't suffer from the same distance related problems that the monopolar disc does.  Even still, evidence that those distance problems even exist is highly debatable.

So, if this last is true, I shold be able to see the back of my neck with a good telescope by climbing an average mountain, right?

Don't mind the others, some of us are jaded.  Visibility is limited by the vanishing point, plus it's generally believed that light travels in a curved path that causes the phenomena of sunrise/sunset and moonrise/moonset.  I'm working with some other members on calculations to this effect at the moment and hope to have some math to verify this soon.  There is a thread here about the Electromagnetic Accelerator, which is the monopolar variant of the bending light hypothesis.

And while I won't refer to you as a poor soul, I would recommend reading the wiki, which contains a lot of information, but bear in mind we're still very much in the process of reorganizing and updating it, so if you see contradictions or omissions (such as the closed-loop infinite plane which I don't believe is present) that's why.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: inquisitive on March 06, 2014, 05:33:09 PM
generally believed that light travels in a curved path that causes the phenomena of sunrise/sunset and moonrise/moonset

By who?
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Tintagel on March 06, 2014, 05:58:14 PM
generally believed that light travels in a curved path that causes the phenomena of sunrise/sunset and moonrise/moonset

By who?

*By whom.

By flat earth believers.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Rama Set on March 07, 2014, 06:18:36 PM
generally believed that light travels in a curved path that causes the phenomena of sunrise/sunset and moonrise/moonset

By who?

*By whom.

By flat earth believers.

*It is generally believed by flat Earth believers.

I am not sure that is true. Many flat Earth believers do not subscribe to Electromagnetic Acceleration including one or two (I cannot recall exactly at this moment) members of the Zetetic council.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Tintagel on March 07, 2014, 06:33:05 PM
generally believed that light travels in a curved path that causes the phenomena of sunrise/sunset and moonrise/moonset

By who?

*By whom.

By flat earth believers.

*It is generally believed by flat Earth believers.

I am not sure that is true. Many flat Earth believers do not subscribe to Electromagnetic Acceleration including one or two (I cannot recall exactly at this moment) members of the Zetetic council.

Oh, I could be mistaken.  I was under the impression that generally all of us accepted some form of "bendy light," but I could be wrong about that.   Apologies if so.  Amend to "some of us believe."
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Rama Set on March 07, 2014, 07:48:32 PM
As far as I know Tom Bishop does not subscribe to it.  He always explains sunrise/sunset as a flaw in Classical perspective and through Atmospheric Magnification
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Scorer on March 08, 2014, 03:01:35 AM
I guess... I will hold back my debate efforts until you guys get to an agreement? I don't mean to offend anyone by using wrong words.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: markjo on March 08, 2014, 03:12:08 AM
It seems to me that bending light would directly contradict the results of water convexity experiments, such as the Bedford Levels experiment, that require light to travel in a straight line.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Tintagel on March 08, 2014, 07:13:21 PM
I guess... I will hold back my debate efforts until you guys get to an agreement? I don't mean to offend anyone by using wrong words.

No one will take offense.  There are many interpretations of flat earth theory, and they don't all have to agree.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on March 26, 2014, 03:17:18 PM
For a map, look at the UN logo. It's a simple approximation.
The edge is either at the ice wall - known as Antarctica- beyond it, such as in The Book
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17001.0#.UzLvorsRegE

Or perhaps it's infinite. Simple answer is that we don't know.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: inquisitive on March 27, 2014, 09:35:26 AM
For a map, look at the UN logo. It's a simple approximation.
The edge is either at the ice wall - known as Antarctica- beyond it, such as in The Book
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17001.0#.UzLvorsRegE

Or perhaps it's infinite. Simple answer is that we don't know.
Surely, easy enough to find out with technology.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on March 27, 2014, 11:45:28 AM
Sure. Assuming someone can fund an expedition deep into Antarctica (more distant than anyone has yet ventured) plus supplies. if I had a few grand lying around maybe I would.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Tintagel on March 27, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
For a map, look at the UN logo. It's a simple approximation.
The edge is either at the ice wall - known as Antarctica- beyond it, such as in The Book
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17001.0#.UzLvorsRegE
Or perhaps it's infinite. Simple answer is that we don't know.
Surely, easy enough to find out with technology.
Or perhaps not, because how would you really know?  This is the fallacy of round earth thinking.  "Surely someone else has figured this out by now."  Round Earth thought is lazy intellectualism.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: pilot172 on April 11, 2014, 09:27:21 PM
why don't the flat earthers launch a space capable vehicle I know you can launch it from the woomera test range in south Australia so theres nothing stopping you right
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: inquisitive on April 11, 2014, 10:19:58 PM
For a map, look at the UN logo. It's a simple approximation.
The edge is either at the ice wall - known as Antarctica- beyond it, such as in The Book
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17001.0#.UzLvorsRegE
Or perhaps it's infinite. Simple answer is that we don't know.
Surely, easy enough to find out with technology.
Or perhaps not, because how would you really know?  This is the fallacy of round earth thinking.  "Surely someone else has figured this out by now."  Round Earth thought is lazy intellectualism.
It is not 'round earth thinking'. It is the normal method of science and discovery.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: jroa on April 12, 2014, 05:13:01 AM
The scientific method goes a little something like this; make something up, then see if you can prove it is true.  That is about it, is it not?
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Rama Set on April 12, 2014, 11:24:04 AM
The scientific method goes a little something like this; make something up, then see if you can prove it is true.  That is about it, is it not?

No.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: markjo on April 12, 2014, 01:42:04 PM
The scientific method goes a little something like this; make something up, then see if you can prove it is true.  That is about it, is it not?
The FE method goes a little something like this; make something up, then claim it's true without bothering to prove it.  That is about it, is it not?
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: pilot172 on April 14, 2014, 11:42:02 AM
seriously why haven't any flat earthers ever done any actual exploring to confirm what they predict. You all stand around saying nup round earth that's bull but then just produce theoretical models, well put your money where your mouth is actually fund a space capable rocket im pretty sure kickstarter could help y or maybe try to fly over thou there or fly a plan over the centre of Antarctica just do something rather than go here look at this model I drew cause that's being lazy
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 14, 2014, 05:29:33 PM
I circumnavigated the plane and did extensive exploration of Australia. I resent your accusation and proclaim you a rogue and a scoundrel.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: pilot172 on April 15, 2014, 12:47:11 PM
I circumnavigated the plane and did extensive exploration of Australia. I resent your accusation and proclaim you a rogue and a scoundrel.
best insult ever but have you got evidence of doing either of those things I haven't done either but can you show evidence you have
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Tintagel on April 16, 2014, 12:53:05 AM
seriously why haven't any flat earthers ever done any actual exploring to confirm what they predict. You all stand around saying nup round earth that's bull but then just produce theoretical models, well put your money where your mouth is actually fund a space capable rocket im pretty sure kickstarter could help y or maybe try to fly over thou there or fly a plan over the centre of Antarctica just do something rather than go here look at this model I drew cause that's being lazy

Kickstart a space program.  Why didn't I think of that?  How hard could it be to put a human in orbit?

There's a reason real planes don't fly over the center of Antarctica.  They also don't fly over the North Pole, and there's a reason for that too.  Are they just being lazy?  I don't think so.  Why, then, don't "you round earthers" do some of your own research, eh?
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 16, 2014, 01:06:06 AM
best insult ever but have you got evidence of doing either of those things I haven't done either but can you show evidence you have
If you're into photographic evidence, Parsifal and I have taken hundreds of pictures all around Australia. A subset of those can be found here (http://i.omgomg.eu/aus/).

Here's me on our cruise to Tasmania. It was windy, which didn't do favours to my long hair.

(http://i.omgomg.eu/aus/147.jpg)

I guess I could scan some pages from my passport to provide evidence of my UK - USA - Australia - Malaysia - Sri Lanka - UK trip, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with doing that.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: pilot172 on April 16, 2014, 11:21:20 AM
best insult ever but have you got evidence of doing either of those things I haven't done either but can you show evidence you have
If you're into photographic evidence, Parsifal and I have taken hundreds of pictures all around Australia. A subset of those can be found here (http://i.omgomg.eu/aus/).

Here's me on our cruise to Tasmania. It was windy, which didn't do favours to my long hair.

(http://i.omgomg.eu/aus/147.jpg)

I guess I could scan some pages from my passport to provide evidence of my UK - USA - Australia - Malaysia - Sri Lanka - UK trip, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with doing that.
pictures can be fake how do we know that's not just cgi
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Tintagel on April 16, 2014, 02:54:48 PM
best insult ever but have you got evidence of doing either of those things I haven't done either but can you show evidence you have
If you're into photographic evidence, Parsifal and I have taken hundreds of pictures all around Australia. A subset of those can be found here (http://i.omgomg.eu/aus/).

Here's me on our cruise to Tasmania. It was windy, which didn't do favours to my long hair.

(http://i.omgomg.eu/aus/147.jpg)

I guess I could scan some pages from my passport to provide evidence of my UK - USA - Australia - Malaysia - Sri Lanka - UK trip, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with doing that.
pictures can be fake how do we know that's not just cgi

You don't.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 16, 2014, 05:26:58 PM
pictures can be fake how do we know that's not just cgi
You don't. That's why it's evidence and not proof. You could, of course, contact Spirit of Tasmania (http://www.spiritoftasmania.com.au/) and ask them about booking 11101770, sailing to Melbourne on 14/9/2013, but for all you know, they could be in on the conspiracy trying to convince you that the Earth is flat.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Ghost of V on April 16, 2014, 10:40:17 PM
(http://i.omgomg.eu/aus/147.jpg)

I'm not calling you a liar. I just have some questions.

Wind? Is that why your face looks like it was blurred out with the blur pen in Photoshop? Is that also why the body of that person looks like that of a female and not a male?
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 17, 2014, 12:02:04 AM
Wind? Is that why your face looks like it was blurred out with the blur pen in Photoshop?
You can't see my face because it's completely covered in hair. I haven't cut it in a very long time, and the wind makes it go all over the place. Many of the pictures in that collection show my face, including this one (http://i.omgomg.eu/aus/41.JPG).

Is that also why the body of that person looks like that of a female and not a male?
I think most females would have breasts. My chest is very flat.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Ghost of V on April 17, 2014, 12:21:56 AM
Many of the pictures in that collection show my face, including this one (http://i.omgomg.eu/aus/41.JPG).

That's you alright.

The first picture just looks strange though. I can see that your hair is in your face, but the wind and the way the camera captured the shot make it look all disfigured.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: pilot172 on April 17, 2014, 11:37:08 AM
so why aren't pictures of a roundearth able to be used as evidence for a round earth
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: Tintagel on April 17, 2014, 01:05:08 PM
so why aren't pictures of a roundearth able to be used as evidence for a round earth
Ostensibly, pizaaplanet took those photos himself (or was at the very least present when they were taken).  If you take a photo of the earth that shows it to be a sphere yourself, feel free to show it to us, and it will have greater credibility than something you found on Google images claiming to be a photo of the earth from space.  It's still just a photo, though, and we don't know for sure if it is what you purport it to be, just as you can't be sure PP isn't standing on a soundstage made to look like the Spirit of Tasmania II.
Title: Re: Edges...
Post by: pilot172 on April 24, 2014, 12:10:37 PM
see theres the stalemate neither of us can prove to the other by using theoretical stuff and pictures we need to do an actual experiment to prove it...so whos up for a flight over the south pole