What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« on: December 26, 2017, 05:22:58 PM »
What do you think society would look like if NASA stopped deceiving people into believing the earth is round? Would technology be more advanced than is is now? Would understanding the unique place the earth occupies in the universe lead people to act with better morals and more integrity?

Starting with faulty assumptions leads to faulty results. The widespread misconception that the earth is round must surely be slowing scientific progress and hampering the spread of human rights. What do you think?

Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2017, 07:28:43 PM »
What do you think society would look like if NASA stopped deceiving people into believing the earth is round? Would technology be more advanced than is is now? Would understanding the unique place the earth occupies in the universe lead people to act with better morals and more integrity?

Starting with faulty assumptions leads to faulty results. The widespread misconception that the earth is round must surely be slowing scientific progress and hampering the spread of human rights. What do you think?
Meaning new maps would be published?

Is WGS84 just a NASA production?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 07:31:23 PM by inquisitive »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2017, 07:49:43 PM »
What do you think society would look like if NASA stopped deceiving people into believing the earth is round?

This is not what we believe.

https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy

Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2017, 09:40:20 PM »
What do you think society would look like if NASA stopped deceiving people into believing the earth is round?

This is not what we believe.

https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy

Fair enough, but that not what I was getting at with my question, so let me rephrase it. How would the world be a better place if everyone believed in a flat earth? Why does it matter?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2017, 11:47:07 PM »
Fair enough, but that not what I was getting at with my question, so let me rephrase it. How would the world be a better place if everyone believed in a flat earth? Why does it matter?

It matters for quite a lot of reasons. The Flat Earth movement is a journey of science and philosophy. The cornerstone of Western science is the idea that the earth is a globe. From debating this subject for over 10 years, I can say that the theories for a lot of things rely on the shape of the earth being round. If the earth is flat it affects our entire perception of the universe. It affects how we measure the distance to the sun and stars with parallax methods, the size of galaxies, and the nature of the planets. It affects our theories on plate tectonics, the magnetic field, the tides, the formation of mountains, the oceans, the nature of gravity, and the nature of perspective. All of it changes.

Flat Earth theory affects the theory of the Big Bang that is based on expanding stars. The origin of the universe and its future must be interpreted completely differently if the universe is much smaller than previously thought.

Even the nature of Euclidean space can be in question. Were the ancient greeks wrong about some of the fundamental assumptions we make when we look at the world? Is there such a thing as a perfect circle? Is the universe discrete or continuous? Why should we interpret things one way but not the other? These are all things we discuss.

The shape of the world has everything to do with everything, and we have a strong desire to know the truth.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 12:09:47 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Boots

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2017, 12:10:17 AM »
Fair enough, but that not what I was getting at with my question, so let me rephrase it. How would the world be a better place if everyone believed in a flat earth? Why does it matter?

It matters for quite a lot of reasons. The Flat Earth movement is a journey of science and philosophy. The cornerstone of Western science is the idea that the earth is a globe. From debating this subject for over 10 years, I can say that the theories for a lot of things rely on the shape of the earth being round. If the earth is flat it affects our entire perception of the universe. It affects how we measure the distance to the sun and stars with parallax methods, the size of galaxies, and the nature of the planets. It affects our theories on plate tectonics, the magnetic field, the tides, the oceans, the nature of gravity, and the nature of perspective. All of it changes.

Flat Earth theory affects the theory of the Big Bang that is based on expanding stars. The origin of the universe and its future must be interpreted completely differently if the universe is much smaller than previously thought.

Even the nature of Euclidean space can be in question. Were the ancient greeks wrong about some of the fundamental assumptions we make when we look at the world? Is there such a thing as a perfect circle? Is the universe discrete or continuous? Why should we interpret things one way but not the other? These are all things we discuss.

The shape of the world has everything to do with everything, and we have a strong desire to know the truth.

Do you think the truth will out eventually or is the GE cover-up going to go on forever?
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2017, 12:34:10 AM »
Fair enough, but that not what I was getting at with my question, so let me rephrase it. How would the world be a better place if everyone believed in a flat earth? Why does it matter?

It matters for quite a lot of reasons. The Flat Earth movement is a journey of science and philosophy. The cornerstone of Western science is the idea that the earth is a globe. From debating this subject for over 10 years, I can say that the theories for a lot of things rely on the shape of the earth being round. If the earth is flat it affects our entire perception of the universe. It affects how we measure the distance to the sun and stars with parallax methods, the size of galaxies, and the nature of the planets. It affects our theories on plate tectonics, the magnetic field, the tides, the oceans, the nature of gravity, and the nature of perspective. All of it changes.

Flat Earth theory affects the theory of the Big Bang that is based on expanding stars. The origin of the universe and its future must be interpreted completely differently if the universe is much smaller than previously thought.

Even the nature of Euclidean space can be in question. Were the ancient greeks wrong about some of the fundamental assumptions we make when we look at the world? Is there such a thing as a perfect circle? Is the universe discrete or continuous? Why should we interpret things one way but not the other? These are all things we discuss.

The shape of the world has everything to do with everything, and we have a strong desire to know the truth.

Do you think the truth will out eventually or is the GE cover-up going to go on forever?

We don't believe that there is a Globe Earth cover up. We believe that they are merely mistaken. Scientists and astronomers are likewise merely mistaken. Everyone is merely mistaken about the shape of the earth, and it all has to do with the educational system's culture of holding its authorities dating back to Aristotle as unimpeachable.

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Offline Boots

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 01:15:25 AM »
Fair enough, but that not what I was getting at with my question, so let me rephrase it. How would the world be a better place if everyone believed in a flat earth? Why does it matter?

It matters for quite a lot of reasons. The Flat Earth movement is a journey of science and philosophy. The cornerstone of Western science is the idea that the earth is a globe. From debating this subject for over 10 years, I can say that the theories for a lot of things rely on the shape of the earth being round. If the earth is flat it affects our entire perception of the universe. It affects how we measure the distance to the sun and stars with parallax methods, the size of galaxies, and the nature of the planets. It affects our theories on plate tectonics, the magnetic field, the tides, the oceans, the nature of gravity, and the nature of perspective. All of it changes.

Flat Earth theory affects the theory of the Big Bang that is based on expanding stars. The origin of the universe and its future must be interpreted completely differently if the universe is much smaller than previously thought.

Even the nature of Euclidean space can be in question. Were the ancient greeks wrong about some of the fundamental assumptions we make when we look at the world? Is there such a thing as a perfect circle? Is the universe discrete or continuous? Why should we interpret things one way but not the other? These are all things we discuss.

The shape of the world has everything to do with everything, and we have a strong desire to know the truth.

Do you think the truth will out eventually or is the GE cover-up going to go on forever?

We don't believe that there is a Globe Earth cover up. We believe that they are merely mistaken. Scientists and astronomers are likewise merely mistaken. Everyone is merely mistaken about the shape of the earth, and it all has to do with the educational system's culture of holding its authorities dating back to Aristotle as unimpeachable.

Do you think the truth will out eventually or will everyone remain "merely mistaken" forever?
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2017, 01:19:42 AM »
We don't believe that there is a Globe Earth cover up. We believe that they are merely mistaken. Scientists and astronomers are likewise merely mistaken. Everyone is merely mistaken about the shape of the earth, and it all has to do with the educational system's culture of holding its authorities dating back to Aristotle as unimpeachable.

In other words, everyone is "mistaken" except a small group of conspiracy theorists. All those folks whose jobs depend on getting things right, mistaken. Sigh, if you spent 30 minutes going through all of the industries that would fail because of this, you'd soon realize everyone can't be wrong. There are consequences for being so wrong. Things that depend on a globe would not work. Right now, there are weather satellites in polar orbits circling the globe. A polar orbit doesn't even make sense on a flat Earth. Are they just mistaken about the path their satellites take? When NORAD tracks these satellites, are they merely mistaken? When the data arrive and it matches known images of the Earth, are they mistaken in how the images fit together?

It is very easy to claim everyone is merely mistaken, but when you start thinking it out, it becomes ludicrous in seconds.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2017, 01:38:23 AM »
We don't believe that there is a Globe Earth cover up. We believe that they are merely mistaken. Scientists and astronomers are likewise merely mistaken. Everyone is merely mistaken about the shape of the earth, and it all has to do with the educational system's culture of holding its authorities dating back to Aristotle as unimpeachable.

In other words, everyone is "mistaken" except a small group of conspiracy theorists. All those folks whose jobs depend on getting things right, mistaken. Sigh, if you spent 30 minutes going through all of the industries that would fail because of this, you'd soon realize everyone can't be wrong. There are consequences for being so wrong. Things that depend on a globe would not work. Right now, there are weather satellites in polar orbits circling the globe. A polar orbit doesn't even make sense on a flat Earth. Are they just mistaken about the path their satellites take? When NORAD tracks these satellites, are they merely mistaken? When the data arrive and it matches known images of the Earth, are they mistaken in how the images fit together?

It is very easy to claim everyone is merely mistaken, but when you start thinking it out, it becomes ludicrous in seconds.

I just linked you to our position about what is going on with the space program and what they are mistaken about. Why not read it?

Do you think the truth will out eventually or will everyone remain "merely mistaken" forever?

The truth has already come out and people just deny it. It will continue to be that way until people wise up and start questioning the status quo.

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Offline Boots

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2017, 01:52:32 AM »
We don't believe that there is a Globe Earth cover up. We believe that they are merely mistaken. Scientists and astronomers are likewise merely mistaken. Everyone is merely mistaken about the shape of the earth, and it all has to do with the educational system's culture of holding its authorities dating back to Aristotle as unimpeachable.

In other words, everyone is "mistaken" except a small group of conspiracy theorists. All those folks whose jobs depend on getting things right, mistaken. Sigh, if you spent 30 minutes going through all of the industries that would fail because of this, you'd soon realize everyone can't be wrong. There are consequences for being so wrong. Things that depend on a globe would not work. Right now, there are weather satellites in polar orbits circling the globe. A polar orbit doesn't even make sense on a flat Earth. Are they just mistaken about the path their satellites take? When NORAD tracks these satellites, are they merely mistaken? When the data arrive and it matches known images of the Earth, are they mistaken in how the images fit together?

It is very easy to claim everyone is merely mistaken, but when you start thinking it out, it becomes ludicrous in seconds.

I just linked you to our position about what is going on with the space program and what they are mistaken about. Why not read it?

Do you think the truth will out eventually or will everyone remain "merely mistaken" forever?

The truth has already come out and people just deny it. It will continue to be that way until people wise up and start questioning the status quo.

So you do feel that eventually people will wise up and start questioning the status quo, at which point people will stop denying the truth of the FE. Do you have any guess as to how long it might be until people wise up and start questioning the status quo?
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2017, 02:31:27 AM »
So you do feel that eventually people will wise up and start questioning the status quo, at which point people will stop denying the truth of the FE. Do you have any guess as to how long it might be until people wise up and start questioning the status quo?

People are starting to wise up right now. The Flat Earth movement is getting more and more popular by the day. People are performing Rowbotham's water convexity tests on YouTube and seeing a Flat Earth. I have even seen a bunch of experiments on YouTube supporting Rowbotham's more minor ideas that the moon produces "cold light". There are a ton of Flat Earth Podcasts now. More and more people are realizing that Rowbotham was right after all.

The movement will continue to grow. The movement will get more exposure in the media. There will be more experiments. People will organize the experiments and the evidence, and present it for easy digestion. At some point there will be so much evidence that the establishment could not resist debating us. Prominent figures like Bill Nye the Science Guy will feel a personal responsibility to defend the Round Earth Theory in high profile online debates. It will just take a single instance of their fall from grace to open the flood.

Once the flood happens and we have tens of thousands of people seeking the truth, the truth will be found, and it will be undeniable. All of the experiments we want to do, but can't due to funding, will be performed organically. In the meantime we must work on our theories, our philosophies, and our materials, to provide a solid starting point for curious minds to flourish.

However, even despite all of this, Flat Earth Theory will still always be a niche topic, obvious only to those motivated enough to investigate it, so long as the government continues to fake space travel. A greater political revolution to fight corruption would be needed to change that.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 03:41:35 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Boots

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2017, 04:56:23 AM »
So you do feel that eventually people will wise up and start questioning the status quo, at which point people will stop denying the truth of the FE. Do you have any guess as to how long it might be until people wise up and start questioning the status quo?

People are starting to wise up right now. The Flat Earth movement is getting more and more popular by the day. People are performing Rowbotham's water convexity tests on YouTube and seeing a Flat Earth. I have even seen a bunch of experiments on YouTube supporting Rowbotham's more minor ideas that the moon produces "cold light". There are a ton of Flat Earth Podcasts now. More and more people are realizing that Rowbotham was right after all.

The movement will continue to grow. The movement will get more exposure in the media. There will be more experiments. People will organize the experiments and the evidence, and present it for easy digestion. At some point there will be so much evidence that the establishment could not resist debating us. Prominent figures like Bill Nye the Science Guy will feel a personal responsibility to defend the Round Earth Theory in high profile online debates. It will just take a single instance of their fall from grace to open the flood.

Once the flood happens and we have tens of thousands of people seeking the truth, the truth will be found, and it will be undeniable. All of the experiments we want to do, but can't due to funding, will be performed organically. In the meantime we must work on our theories, our philosophies, and our materials, to provide a solid starting point for curious minds to flourish.

However, even despite all of this, Flat Earth Theory will still always be a niche topic, obvious only to those motivated enough to investigate it, so long as the government continues to fake space travel. A greater political revolution to fight corruption would be needed to change that.

So do you believe a greater political revolution to fight corruption will happen or is FET destined to remain a niche topic in perpetuity?
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2017, 08:08:34 AM »
Yet there is no explanation for measured distances, path of the sun and satellite operation.  Or even the slightest sign of a map.

Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2017, 05:20:24 PM »
What do you think society would look like if NASA stopped deceiving people into believing the earth is round? Would technology be more advanced than is is now? Would understanding the unique place the earth occupies in the universe lead people to act with better morals and more integrity?

Starting with faulty assumptions leads to faulty results. The widespread misconception that the earth is round must surely be slowing scientific progress and hampering the spread of human rights. What do you think?

If FET were accepted in the US of A, it would mean a breakdown of science, you could go back to the Dark Ages and believe in Noah. Farewell, old friend; the rest of the world won't be joining you.

How many posters here talk about "the government" and NASA as if they controlled the whole world?

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2017, 07:21:51 PM »
What do you think society would look like if NASA stopped deceiving people into believing the earth is round? Would technology be more advanced than is is now? Would understanding the unique place the earth occupies in the universe lead people to act with better morals and more integrity?

Starting with faulty assumptions leads to faulty results. The widespread misconception that the earth is round must surely be slowing scientific progress and hampering the spread of human rights. What do you think?

If FET were accepted in the US of A, it would mean a breakdown of science, you could go back to the Dark Ages and believe in Noah. Farewell, old friend; the rest of the world won't be joining you.

How many posters here talk about "the government" and NASA as if they controlled the whole world?

As an American, this drives me crazy. It's like some of my fellow Americans don't seem to comprehend that there is a whole world outside of our borders. Japan launched a satellite the other day. "The govt" and NASA were not involved. Boy, I'll bet they are going to be surprised when it hits the dome.  ::)

FEH will never be more than a small slice of society though. It appeals to the conspiracy types, those who fancy themselves "free thinkers", and the gullible. Mostly though, FEers and ridiculed for being idiots.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2017, 08:08:05 PM »
What do you think society would look like if NASA stopped deceiving people into believing the earth is round? Would technology be more advanced than is is now? Would understanding the unique place the earth occupies in the universe lead people to act with better morals and more integrity?

Starting with faulty assumptions leads to faulty results. The widespread misconception that the earth is round must surely be slowing scientific progress and hampering the spread of human rights. What do you think?

If FET were accepted in the US of A, it would mean a breakdown of science, you could go back to the Dark Ages and believe in Noah. Farewell, old friend; the rest of the world won't be joining you.

How many posters here talk about "the government" and NASA as if they controlled the whole world?

As an American, this drives me crazy. It's like some of my fellow Americans don't seem to comprehend that there is a whole world outside of our borders. Japan launched a satellite the other day. "The govt" and NASA were not involved. Boy, I'll bet they are going to be surprised when it hits the dome.  ::)

FEH will never be more than a small slice of society though. It appeals to the conspiracy types, those who fancy themselves "free thinkers", and the gullible. Mostly though, FEers and ridiculed for being idiots.

Thanks, S-One.

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2017, 08:24:48 PM »
What do you think society would look like if NASA stopped deceiving people into believing the earth is round? Would technology be more advanced than is is now? Would understanding the unique place the earth occupies in the universe lead people to act with better morals and more integrity?

Starting with faulty assumptions leads to faulty results. The widespread misconception that the earth is round must surely be slowing scientific progress and hampering the spread of human rights. What do you think?

If FET were accepted in the US of A, it would mean a breakdown of science, you could go back to the Dark Ages and believe in Noah. Farewell, old friend; the rest of the world won't be joining you.

How many posters here talk about "the government" and NASA as if they controlled the whole world?

As an American, this drives me crazy. It's like some of my fellow Americans don't seem to comprehend that there is a whole world outside of our borders. Japan launched a satellite the other day. "The govt" and NASA were not involved. Boy, I'll bet they are going to be surprised when it hits the dome.  ::)

FEH will never be more than a small slice of society though. It appeals to the conspiracy types, those who fancy themselves "free thinkers", and the gullible. Mostly though, FEers are ridiculed for being idiots.

Thanks, S-One.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

Offline Ratboy

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2017, 09:52:57 PM »
It is weird that so much stuff Aristotle taught either did not catch on universally (Platos idea of separate body and spirit was more popular than A's concept of an inseparable being) or was later rejected (such as the 5 elements that make up everything) or was first rejected and then eventually caught on (evolution of animals).  Even his framework for ethics was sort of never really rejected but every major philosopher after him came up with a system for ethics that did not require subject matter experts to rule on what is ethical and what is not.  For some reason his observations of the shape of the earth (how constellations are higher or lower in the sky depending on latitude) almost universally caught on and no one was able to successfully challenge to the point of preventing things like Columbus sailing over the edge or for satellite television to work by moving your dish closer to the horizon the farther away from the equator you are.  Even doctors somehow managed to move past Aristotle and his 4 qualities and the assumption that disease is not just an imbalance of the 4 humours.  It seems no one simply accepted his musings with the exception of a round earth and they just accept that one blindly.

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: What if flat earth theory was widely accepted
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2017, 10:38:00 PM »
It is weird that so much stuff Aristotle taught either did not catch on universally (Platos idea of separate body and spirit was more popular than A's concept of an inseparable being) or was later rejected (such as the 5 elements that make up everything) or was first rejected and then eventually caught on (evolution of animals).  Even his framework for ethics was sort of never really rejected but every major philosopher after him came up with a system for ethics that did not require subject matter experts to rule on what is ethical and what is not.  For some reason his observations of the shape of the earth (how constellations are higher or lower in the sky depending on latitude) almost universally caught on and no one was able to successfully challenge to the point of preventing things like Columbus sailing over the edge or for satellite television to work by moving your dish closer to the horizon the farther away from the equator you are.  Even doctors somehow managed to move past Aristotle and his 4 qualities and the assumption that disease is not just an imbalance of the 4 humours.  It seems no one simply accepted his musings with the exception of a round earth and they just accept that one blindly.

1) Aristotle did not come up with the idea of a round Earth. Pythagoras is given some credit for that. Plato also expressed his view that the world was round. The idea had likely been around for at least 100 years, likely more, before Aristotle's contribution.

2) What makes you think people believed it blindly? Here is the most important thing - the Earth being a globe works. From navigation to the motion and position of the stars - observations match what is expected on a globe.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50