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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7861 on: December 25, 2020, 12:08:39 AM »
I understand why they are.  A large part (75%) of their voters think the election was rigged for Biden.  That he cheated.  If they don't make a show of trying, that 75% will turn on them and what happens is almost always revolution.

They only believe that because Trump keeps saying it. He has an almost cult-like following who hang on his every word. It's really weird, I don't think I've seen a political leader like it before.

The reputedly smartest man in the world thinks the election was stolen.

https://thenationalpulse.com/news/the-smartest-man-in-the-world-iq-200-is-convinced-the-u-s-election-was-stolen/

Maybe the problem is with the leftists is that they have a blind liberal faith and are not smart enough to put two and two together.

Why all this completely embarrassing machinations around Trump is such a sideshow and only diminishes the Repub brand. I mean really, like anyone with half a brain cell takes kraken Sydney and weeping hair dye stains Guiliani seriously? Forget about that.

I find that is embarrassing that you leftists have been on the defense, unable to produce much in the way of positive evidence for your position, thinking that your "nah uh" and refutations are actually evidence in your favor.

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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7862 on: December 25, 2020, 12:14:10 AM »
I understand why they are.  A large part (75%) of their voters think the election was rigged for Biden.  That he cheated.  If they don't make a show of trying, that 75% will turn on them and what happens is almost always revolution.

They only believe that because Trump keeps saying it. He has an almost cult-like following who hang on his every word. It's really weird, I don't think I've seen a political leader like it before.

The reputedly smartest man in the world thinks the election was stolen.

https://thenationalpulse.com/news/the-smartest-man-in-the-world-iq-200-is-convinced-the-u-s-election-was-stolen/

Maybe the problem is with the leftists is that they have a blind liberal faith and are not smart enough to put two and two together.

Why all this completely embarrassing machinations around Trump is such a sideshow and only diminishes the Repub brand. I mean really, like anyone with half a brain cell takes kraken Sydney and weeping hair dye stains Guiliani seriously? Forget about that.

I find that is embarrassing that you leftists have been on the defense, unable to produce much in the way of positive evidence for your position, thinking that your "nah uh" is actually evidence in your favor.

Isn't the National Pulse Bannon's thing? Btw, how's his trial going after bilking people out of their cash for the Wall?

In any case, your smartest guy in the world, Christopher Langan, sounds like a real hoot to have at a dinner party:

Views
Langan's support of conspiracy theories, including the 9/11 Truther movement (Langan has claimed that the George W. Bush administration staged the 9/11 attacks in order to distract the public from learning about the CTMU) and the white genocide conspiracy theory, as well as his opposition to interracial relationships, have contributed to his gaining a following among members of the alt-right and others on the far right.[10][11] Journalists have described certain of Langan's Internet posts as containing "thinly veiled" antisemitism[10] and making antisemitic "dog whistles".
[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan

I personally love the "...in order to distract the public from learning about the CTMU" bit. The CTMU being his theory of everything, "Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe". That's quite the ego on the guy to think 9/11 was staged and 2996 people were murdered just to conceal HIS theory. Yeah, he reeeeeaaalllly seems like the smartest guy in the world.

As for the left being on the defense. What? What are you referring to? And not producing positive evidence? We did, the positive evidence is that Biden won the popular vote and got 306 certified electoral votes. According to the constitution that makes for a President. And your "positive" evidence - How has that been going in the courts? Swimmingly well so far, right?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7863 on: December 25, 2020, 12:31:16 AM »
9/11 was a conspiracy of people to take down the WTC towers. There is already a conspiracy there. Langdan may have different thoughts on what that conspiracy specifically entailed.

Sounds to me like Christopher Langan is the smartest man in the world and you are not.

Quote
And not producing positive evidence? We did, the positive evidence is that Biden won the popular vote and got 306 certified electoral votes. According to the constitution that makes for a President. And your "positive" evidence

That's not positive evidence that there was no fraud. Looks like you are coping out.

Quote
And your "positive" evidence - How has that been going in the courts? Swimmingly well so far, right?

As previously discussed, judges have been agreeing with Powell and fraud claims and have been granting audits, subpoenas, court dates.

Information has been coming out. Do take a look at the news sources that you don't like and keep up.

Redacted Information in Dominion Audit Report Shows Races Were Flipped - https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/redacted-information-in-dominion-audit-report-shows-races-were-flipped-analyst_3625228.html?v=ul

Suboenas granted in Arizona. Arizona Senators Sue to Enforce Subpoenas for Election Equipment, Records -  https://www.theepochtimes.com/arizona-senators-sue-to-enforce-subpoenas-for-election-equipment-and-records_3630463.html
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 12:43:45 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7864 on: December 25, 2020, 12:55:43 AM »
9/11 was a conspiracy of people to take down the WTC towers. There is already a conspiracy there. Langdan may have different thoughts on what that conspiracy specifically entailed.

Sounds to me like Christopher Langan is the smartest man in the world and you are not.

I just thought it was super funny how the smartest man in the world is a nutjob conspiracy theorist and thinks 3000 people were murdered to hide HIS theory.

Quote
And not producing positive evidence? We did, the positive evidence is that Biden won the popular vote and got 306 certified electoral votes. According to the constitution that makes for a President. And your "positive" evidence

That's not positive evidence that there was no fraud. Looks like you are coping out.

I need positive evidence there was no fraud? That's odd. No, actually, you need positive evidence that there was systemic fraud that altered the outcome of the 11/3 election. So far our Attorney General has stated none has been found. I'm good with that.


Quote
And your "positive" evidence - How has that been going in the courts? Swimmingly well so far, right?

As previously discussed, judges have been agreeing with Powell and fraud claims and have been granting audits, subpoenas, court dates.

Information has been coming out. Do take a look at the news sources that you don't like and keep up.

Redacted Information in Dominion Audit Report Shows Races Were Flipped - https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/redacted-information-in-dominion-audit-report-shows-races-were-flipped-analyst_3625228.html?v=ul

Suboenas granted in Arizona. Arizona Senators Sue to Enforce Subpoenas for Election Equipment, Records -  https://www.theepochtimes.com/arizona-senators-sue-to-enforce-subpoenas-for-election-equipment-and-records_3630463.html

I can't get past the paywall at Epoch Times. In any case, it seems like a hard right wing rag and quite dubious in the "trusted" and "unbiased" categories. Do try and find some legitimately non-biased sources. So far Fox and Newsmax have had to walk back their Dominion/Smartmatic fraud claims. The Epoch Times is probably next.

"The Epoch Times opposes the Chinese Communist Party,[20] promotes far-right politicians in Europe,[3][5] and backs President Donald Trump in the U.S.;[21] a 2019 report by NBC News showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign.[18][22][23] The Epoch Media Group's news sites and YouTube channels have spread conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccination propaganda.[18][24][25]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Epoch_Times

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #7865 on: December 25, 2020, 01:07:49 AM »
I understand why they are.  A large part (75%) of their voters think the election was rigged for Biden.  That he cheated.  If they don't make a show of trying, that 75% will turn on them and what happens is almost always revolution.

They only believe that because Trump keeps saying it. He has an almost cult-like following who hang on his every word. It's really weird, I don't think I've seen a political leader like it before.

The reputedly smartest man in the world thinks the election was stolen.

https://thenationalpulse.com/news/the-smartest-man-in-the-world-iq-200-is-convinced-the-u-s-election-was-stolen/

Maybe the problem is with the leftists is that they have a blind liberal faith and are not smart enough to put two and two together.

And what would you say if he said the Earth was round?

Quote
Why all this completely embarrassing machinations around Trump is such a sideshow and only diminishes the Repub brand. I mean really, like anyone with half a brain cell takes kraken Sydney and weeping hair dye stains Guiliani seriously? Forget about that.

I find that is embarrassing that you leftists have been on the defense, unable to produce much in the way of positive evidence for your position, thinking that your "nah uh" and refutations are actually evidence in your favor.

Lol. Every recount has affirmed the certified results, Bom.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7866 on: December 25, 2020, 01:16:05 AM »
9/11 was a conspiracy of people to take down the WTC towers. There is already a conspiracy there. Langdan may have different thoughts on what that conspiracy specifically entailed.

Sounds to me like Christopher Langan is the smartest man in the world and you are not.

I just thought it was super funny how the smartest man in the world is a nutjob conspiracy theorist and thinks 3000 people were murdered to hide HIS theory.

Since he is the smartest man in the world and you are not, what makes you think that you are a credible source to say that he is wrong? I would also suggest quoting his own words on a rather topic than some website trying to discredit him. Quoting a non-direct source discredits you.

Quote from: stack
I need positive evidence there was no fraud? That's odd. No, actually,

So you admit that you do not have positive evidence that there is no fraud. Therefore you are taking things by faith then. We can stop the conversation here.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7867 on: December 25, 2020, 01:19:45 AM »
9/11 was a conspiracy of people to take down the WTC towers. There is already a conspiracy there. Langdan may have different thoughts on what that conspiracy specifically entailed.

Sounds to me like Christopher Langan is the smartest man in the world and you are not.

I just thought it was super funny how the smartest man in the world is a nutjob conspiracy theorist and thinks 3000 people were murdered to hide HIS theory.

Since he is the smartest man in the world and you are not, what makes you think that you are a credible source to say that he is wrong?

Ooh, it's more of that appeal to authority Tom has expressed such deep respect for in the past.

Also,
coping out
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 01:23:46 AM by Roundy »
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7868 on: December 25, 2020, 01:27:19 AM »
9/11 was a conspiracy of people to take down the WTC towers. There is already a conspiracy there. Langdan may have different thoughts on what that conspiracy specifically entailed.

Sounds to me like Christopher Langan is the smartest man in the world and you are not.

I just thought it was super funny how the smartest man in the world is a nutjob conspiracy theorist and thinks 3000 people were murdered to hide HIS theory.

Since he is the smartest man in the world and you are not, what makes you think that you are a credible source to say that he is wrong? I would also suggest quoting his own words on a rather topic than some website trying to discredit him. Quoting a non-direct source discredits you.

I think I just gained my credit back. And this is hilarious. From Langan's FB page back in 2017, He wrote, you know, in his own words:

"The CTMU has already been "all over the news", mostly at the turn of the millennium (just as promised); professed Christian GW Bush and his decidedly non-Christian neocon vultures did everything they could to distract everyone from it by immediately staging 9/11, passing the PATRIOT Act, and invading Iraq and Afghanistan, thus immersing us in these last few years of Middle Eastern bloodshed, after which Obama decided that we also needed wave after wave of fake "refugees" and DHS-sanctioned demographic genocide as we "talked about race" (people talked, and suffered, and sometimes died;"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ctmurealitytheory/permalink/10155540326532486/

Quite the list of things that went down just to distract from HIS theory. Yep sounds like the smartest guy in American and not a deluded paranoid conspiracy crank. No not at all like that. He's a genius! I can see why you hang on his every word.

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Offline Snupes

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7869 on: December 25, 2020, 01:31:29 AM »
I find that is embarrassing that you leftists have been on the defense, unable to produce much in the way of positive evidence for your position, thinking that your "nah uh" and refutations are actually evidence in your favor.

Do you think "you can't prove you haven't murdered someone" is a valid argument and should be considered?

Also I'm assuming your refusal to actually stake a claim on any of the bombshells that are going to turn the tide is because you know just as well that they're not going to go anywhere. Otherwise you should be pretty comfortable championing the near-certainty that Biden won't be sworn in in under a month.
There are cigarettes in joints. You don't smoke it by itself.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7870 on: December 25, 2020, 02:47:22 AM »
It is possible to provide evidence that you didn't murder someone. Establishing alibies, aquiring security cam footage that you were somewhere else at the time, showing receipts/phone location history, proving that the evidence of the murder doesn't fit your profile, proving that it was actually someone else who was the murderer. Plenty of ways.

Benford's law is an established method of identifying evidence of election fraud. Iceman said that it was applied wrongly and that anyone who says Biden's votes don't follow Benford's law is doing it wrong. I asked for a source showing that Biden's votes do follow Benford's law and I got silence. Iceman said it was not necessary for liberals to provide such information. They just need to dismiss something as incorrect and rely on their own lacking credibility.

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Offline Snupes

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7871 on: December 25, 2020, 03:15:41 AM »
It is possible to provide evidence that you didn't murder someone. Establishing alibies, aquiring security cam footage that you were somewhere else at the time, showing receipts/phone location history, proving that the evidence of the murder doesn't fit your profile, proving that it was actually someone else who was the murderer. Plenty of ways.

No no, I'm not asking you to prove you didn't murder a specific person, but that you've never murdered anyone.


Benford's law is an established method of identifying evidence of election fraud. Iceman said that it was applied wrongly and that anyone who says Biden's votes don't follow Benford's law is doing it wrong. I asked for a source showing that Biden's votes do follow Benford's law and I got silence. Iceman said it was not necessary for liberals to provide such information. They just need to dismiss something as incorrect and rely on their own lacking credibility.

You got several responses about Benford's law, though, and how using it for a very deliberate and roughly uniform division of people is ridiculous, such as using it per county. If you go by random counties, you can find instances of Biden's votes following Benford's law closer than Trump's, like these two random Wisconsin counties:




Or the obvious fact that if you pull out to the state or country level, things start following Benford's law much more closely because that's closer to the scale at which it's supposed to be applied. Yeah, if you use a rule in a context other than which it's supposed to be used, it may give you wonky data.

And, of course, you're not even trying to accurately portray what Iceman said, which was that the burden of proof is on the claimant. A concept I'd be utterly aghast if you disagreed with. I assume what you're trying to say in a very bizarrely obtuse way is that the individual cases still haven't been disproven, in which case...well...I can't help ya, man. I've long accepted that your tune isn't gonna change until Biden wins, which is why I really want to get you to confirm whether or not you think any of this is actually gonna come to pass. Because I think you're refusing to state that since you know that all of this is going to amount to nothing, and if you actually state that it's gonna happen you'll have to admit to being wrong. But if you just post links and never state positively that they'll change things, you can avoid that.

So I really hope you'll answer my question this time and show me you do actually believe in Trump.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 05:00:39 AM by Снупс »
There are cigarettes in joints. You don't smoke it by itself.

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #7872 on: December 25, 2020, 03:28:33 AM »
It is possible to provide evidence that you didn't murder someone. Establishing alibies, aquiring security cam footage that you were somewhere else at the time, showing receipts/phone location history, proving that the evidence of the murder doesn't fit your profile, proving that it was actually someone else who was the murderer. Plenty of ways.

Benford's law is an established method of identifying evidence of election fraud. Iceman said that it was applied wrongly and that anyone who says Biden's votes don't follow Benford's law is doing it wrong. I asked for a source showing that Biden's votes do follow Benford's law and I got silence. Iceman said it was not necessary for liberals to provide such information. They just need to dismiss something as incorrect and rely on their own lacking credibility.

You should do some research on Benford’s Law and why it’s inapplicable to election results.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7873 on: December 25, 2020, 07:18:33 AM »
I like bow Tom is pulling all the good Logical Fallacies: appeal to authority, trying to prove a negative, etc.

(Cam footage can be faked. Allabies can be lies.  Etc...)

Also, Tom needs to look at the report.  Its clear that the man doing it WORKED FOR NASA!
Therefore, how can Tom Trust him?

I'm gonna read the report and see how bad it is.

-Well, I got through some of it and I'm seeing a pattern....
A small county has poor IT support.  This is kinda expected.  Hell, my company is a multi-Billion dollar company that has like 7,000 windows 7 pcs on the internet and on our network.  Sooo... Not unique to anything.  Still shitty but not malicious intent.

Also the claim that the machine was designed to cheat is misleading.  From what I can tell here is what happened:

The county realized they didn't update the machine after Nov 3 and it was running old code.  Someone went 'oh shit' and installed the update without running to certify the settings were correct.  The update reset the settings and fucked it all up(like changing the ballot size to default and not what the county used) so alot of ballots (most) had to go to manual tabulation (ie. Adjunct).

So a manual recount is recommended.  Which was done.  And Trump still won it.
So not sure why Tom would keep harping on this.  He is literally arguing that Trump's win of Antrim county is in question. 

https://www.wifr.com/2020/12/21/trump-still-wins-small-michigan-county-after-hand-recount/


But if he feels we should invalidate the whole county, I'm sure Trump won't mind losing 9k votes.  Right?
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 08:00:41 AM by Lord Dave »
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7874 on: December 25, 2020, 09:05:13 AM »
It is possible to provide evidence that you didn't murder someone. Establishing alibies, aquiring security cam footage that you were somewhere else at the time, showing receipts/phone location history, proving that the evidence of the murder doesn't fit your profile, proving that it was actually someone else who was the murderer. Plenty of ways.

You sound like you speak from experience. Have you stopped murdering people?

Benford's law is an established method of identifying evidence of election fraud. Iceman said that it was applied wrongly and that anyone who says Biden's votes don't follow Benford's law is doing it wrong. I asked for a source showing that Biden's votes do follow Benford's law and I got silence. Iceman said it was not necessary for liberals to provide such information. They just need to dismiss something as incorrect and rely on their own lacking credibility.

From Walter R. Mebane, Jr., Professor, Department of Political Science and Department of Statistics, Research Professor, Center for Political Studies, University of Michigan, Haven Hall, Ann Arbor, MI (Included background data because all of a sudden you are beholden to who has the better Phd credentials in examining he facts):

Inappropriate Applications of Benford’s Law Regularities to Some Data from the 2020 Presidential Election in the United States
November 2020

"As vote counting is drawing to a close in the 2020 presidential election in the United States, some are claiming that application of Benford’s Law to the precinct vote counts from a few counties and cities give evidence of election fraud. The displays shown at those sources using the first digits of precinct vote counts data from Fulton County, GA, Allegheny County, PA, Milwaukee, WI, and Chicago, IL, say nothing about possible frauds
...Final verdicts regarding the elections in these and other jurisdictions should await the production of completed vote counts and should draw on additional information about election processes that go beyond mere vote count data. To date I’ve not heard of any substantial irregularities having occurred anywhere, and the particular datasets examined in this paper give essentially no evidence that election frauds occurred.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~wmebane/inapB.pdf

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #7875 on: December 25, 2020, 02:21:26 PM »
Awww, Republican judges gave Trump his favorite thing for Christmas: another court loss.

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/7th-circuit-delivers-donald-trump-a-christmas-eve-election-lawsuit-loss/

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7876 on: December 25, 2020, 05:41:29 PM »
I think Trump has gotten addicted to losing. Why else would he insist on doing it over and over again?
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #7877 on: December 25, 2020, 06:57:19 PM »
I think Trump has gotten addicted to losing. Why else would he insist on doing it over and over again?

Ask Tom

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7878 on: December 25, 2020, 08:43:46 PM »
It is possible to provide evidence that you didn't murder someone. Establishing alibies, aquiring security cam footage that you were somewhere else at the time, showing receipts/phone location history, proving that the evidence of the murder doesn't fit your profile, proving that it was actually someone else who was the murderer. Plenty of ways.

You sound like you speak from experience. Have you stopped murdering people?

Benford's law is an established method of identifying evidence of election fraud. Iceman said that it was applied wrongly and that anyone who says Biden's votes don't follow Benford's law is doing it wrong. I asked for a source showing that Biden's votes do follow Benford's law and I got silence. Iceman said it was not necessary for liberals to provide such information. They just need to dismiss something as incorrect and rely on their own lacking credibility.

From Walter R. Mebane, Jr., Professor, Department of Political Science and Department of Statistics, Research Professor, Center for Political Studies, University of Michigan, Haven Hall, Ann Arbor, MI (Included background data because all of a sudden you are beholden to who has the better Phd credentials in examining he facts):

Inappropriate Applications of Benford’s Law Regularities to Some Data from the 2020 Presidential Election in the United States
November 2020

"As vote counting is drawing to a close in the 2020 presidential election in the United States, some are claiming that application of Benford’s Law to the precinct vote counts from a few counties and cities give evidence of election fraud. The displays shown at those sources using the first digits of precinct vote counts data from Fulton County, GA, Allegheny County, PA, Milwaukee, WI, and Chicago, IL, say nothing about possible frauds
...Final verdicts regarding the elections in these and other jurisdictions should await the production of completed vote counts and should draw on additional information about election processes that go beyond mere vote count data. To date I’ve not heard of any substantial irregularities having occurred anywhere, and the particular datasets examined in this paper give essentially no evidence that election frauds occurred.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~wmebane/inapB.pdf

I read that. It concluded that in some counties the Biden Harris results were hard to explain, except when you compare it to the results of "some German elections" which he assumed to always be legitimate.

"The 2BL test(based on the second digits and Benford’s Law digit probabilities, (Mebane 2014)) shows
second-digit means that differ significantly from 4.187 for both Biden Harris and
Trump Pence: the Trump Pence result is perfectly compatible with nonstrategic votes (see
Mebane 2013, Figure 2), while the result for Biden Harris is harder to explain—but it
matches results observed in some German elections (Mebane 2013, Figure 22) that are
generally not considered to be problematic."
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 08:47:18 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #7879 on: December 25, 2020, 08:45:17 PM »
Sooo... the COVID bill got axed on two sides.  America is sooo fucked.  This is truely a 2020 christmas.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.