[Rama Set]

Tom’s mistake is thinking that sound and fury signifies something. Yes there are a lot of voices bawing in to the night

The right is in power, FYI. It does signify something if they are complaining.

Then why didn't it signify anything when the republican governor certified the slate of electors for Biden?  Is it possibly because of your noxious bias?

The legislatures in these states in discussion are Republican controlled. The Supreme Court leans conservative. The Senate is Republican. The President is a Republican. If you think that Republicans rallying behind Trump and calling fraud means nothing, you are kidding yourself. If they think the election was stolen then they can and will use their power to correct it.

This is what is so terrifying about you.  It doesn't matter if Trump and his cohort think the election was stolen.  Thinking something is true is an awful basis for overturning millions of votes, as the court has upheld time and again.  If you think that simply being on the "right" side and believing you are correct gives you the mandate to do whatever you want, you aren't democratic, you aren't rational, you are a tyrant.

I will refer you back to the William Barr quote, “to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.” There still has been no update to this position.  Happy Safe Harbour Day.

[AATW]

The legislatures in these states in discussion are Republican controlled. The Supreme Court leans conservative. The Senate is Republican. The President is a Republican. If you think that Republicans rallying behind Trump and calling fraud means nothing, you are kidding yourself. If they think the election was stolen then they can and will use their power to correct it.

You understand what you’re suggesting here, right?

You’re suggesting the party in power disregard an election because they didn’t like the result. You’re ok with that, are you?

You can’t just say you “think” an election was stolen, you have to have very good and strong evidence for that. Even then you can’t just disregard the results, you have to go through the legal processes. So far we have had getting on for 50 lawsuits and many of those aren’t even alleging fraud - because when you get into court you can’t just claim anything you like without credible evidence. Only 1 case has been won and that was nothing to do with fraud.

I’m sorry Trump didn’t like the result, but he doesn’t get to stay in power simply because he didn’t want to lose and because so many of his gullible supporters are taking his tantrum seriously. Thankfully I’ve seen enough Republicans condemning Trump and accepting he lost to make it pretty clear that Trump’s attempts at a coup will not succeed. It’s very troubling that you’re cheering him on.

[Tom Bishop]

This is what is so terrifying about you.  It doesn't matter if Trump and his cohort think the election was stolen.  Thinking something is true is an awful basis for overturning millions of votes, as the court has upheld time and again.  If you think that simply being on the "right" side and believing you are correct gives you the mandate to do whatever you want, you aren't democratic, you aren't rational, you are a tyrant.

Nope. Those Republicans in power were elected by their constituents to represent them. The powers granted to them by the the respective US and State Constitutions gives them the right to decide on these matters.

You understand what you’re suggesting here, right?

You’re suggesting the party in power disregard an election because they didn’t like the result. You’re ok with that, are you?

The party in power was given that power because the people voted for them. Legislature has the power to choose the president because they were lawfully elected to be in that position.

Also, FYI: America is a representative republic, not a direct democracy. The people choose the leaders of the states, who select the electors for the President. The public election for the President is only optionally done, and has no legal basis in the US Constitution. A public election is just how states have informally chosen to choose their electors.

[Rama Set]

This is what is so terrifying about you.  It doesn't matter if Trump and his cohort think the election was stolen.  Thinking something is true is an awful basis for overturning millions of votes, as the court has upheld time and again.  If you think that simply being on the "right" side and believing you are correct gives you the mandate to do whatever you want, you aren't democratic, you aren't rational, you are a tyrant.

Nope. Those Republicans in power were elected by their constituents to represent them. The power given to them by the the respective State and US Constitutions gives them the right to decide on these matters.

If you are overturning an election based on your beliefs and not on evidence then you are making a shitty decision.  Whether or not you are allowed to make that decision is beside the point.

The party in power was given that power because the people voted for them. Legislature has the power to chose the president because they were lawfully elected to be in that position.

Also, FYI: America is a representative republic, not a direct democracy. The people chose the leaders of the states, who select the electors. The public election for the president is only optionally done, and has no legal basis in the Constitution. A public election is just how states have informally chosen to choose their electors.

It's not informal, its codified in statutes.  But you are making it increasingly clear that you don't care about the will of the people and just about having your preferred side stay in power, so... that's a thing.  I won't be surprised when you increasingly escalate your opposition to a peaceful transfer of power.

As an aside, the US Constitution largely is a piece of hot garbage.  It's like the bible, it has some good ideas expressed in it, but the more I learn about it, the more its obvious it will be the architect of the US's inevitable demise.

[Lord Dave]

This is what is so terrifying about you.  It doesn't matter if Trump and his cohort think the election was stolen.  Thinking something is true is an awful basis for overturning millions of votes, as the court has upheld time and again.  If you think that simply being on the "right" side and believing you are correct gives you the mandate to do whatever you want, you aren't democratic, you aren't rational, you are a tyrant.

Nope. Those Republicans in power were elected by their constituents to represent them. The powers granted to them by the the respective US and State Constitutions gives them the right to decide on these matters.

You understand what you’re suggesting here, right?

You’re suggesting the party in power disregard an election because they didn’t like the result. You’re ok with that, are you?

The party in power was given that power because the people voted for them. Legislature has the power to choose the president because they were lawfully elected to be in that position.

Also, FYI: America is a representative republic, not a direct democracy. The people choose the leaders of the states, who select the electors for the President. The public election for the President is only optionally done, and has no legal basis in the US Constitution. A public election is just how states have informally chosen to choose their electors.

By this logic, any state legislature can choose whoever they want.  So why have elections for president?  We can just have each state's current legislature pick the winner and call it a day.

Oh and the 2016 election was rigged.  So every democratic state should change their votes to Hillary.  She can win by a landslide.  Good thing thats illegal, eh?

[honk]

I'm still waiting for Arizona to officially announce that they've decided that their own election was contested, as Daniel McCarthy - whom Tom has assured us is a reliable authority figure and not an obscure failed politician looking for his fifteen minutes of fame - has claimed. I'm surprised they're still keeping quiet. It's pretty big news, and I think they'd be better off announcing it sooner rather than later.

[Rama Set]

He has a letter. Some say it is terabytes of data.

[Roundy]

Happy safe harbor day!

[AATW]

Also, FYI: America is a representative republic, not a direct democracy. The people chose the leaders of the states, who select the electors for the President. The public election for the President is only optionally done, and has no legal basis in the Constitution. A public election is just how states have informally chosen to choose their electors.

You're doing that thing again - that thing where you're sort of technically right but in a completely pointless way.

Your version of democracy is admittedly pretty awful. If it makes you feel better ours is too. We vote for MPs who represent both our local Constituency and a political party (with very rare exceptions where some people are independent). The ruling party is the one who has the most MPs. The Prime Minister is the leader of that party. So we don't vote for a Prime Minister either, BUT in general the person who leads each party at the time of an election is a big factor in how people vote.

But what you're suggesting is like us having the referendum on Brexit and the government saying "Oh, sorry, you got it wrong, we're going to do what we want anyway". I mean technically they could have done that. Referenda are advisory, not legally binding. But can you imagine the damage to democracy if they'd done that? And just to be clear, I think Brexit was and is a terrible idea. But the result is what it was and it would have been a massive mistake to just disregard the result [I do think there was a case for a second referendum but that's a longer discussion].

So while what you're suggesting could technically be done I would suggest it would cause irreparable damage to the US, you'd be on the brink of a Civil War. And you think that's fine just because your favoured candidate lost and you want him to still be the President? Wow...

[Tom Bishop]

Arizona Congressman Paul Gosar appears to be on board with the idea of contesting the election.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RepGosar/status/1336132475425329153

As I write this, I am in our nation’s Capital attending to legislative business, but I remain focused on what is happening in our country regarding our election.

In 2016, then candidate Donald Trump fell victim to a heinous crime that had never before been committed in the history of our country. The outgoing Obama administration weaponized our Department of Justice and FBI to unlawfully spy on their political opponent. They falsified information and crafted a ridiculous narrative around a Russia hoax that would be used as the basis to pursue a sham investigation. That disgraceful investigation became a Sword of Damocles throughout the majority of President Trump’s Presidency.

Before President Trump was even sworn in, Democrat Leftists swore an oath to remove him by any means they could. Official calls to impeach him came before he was even sworn in. At the conclusion of the Russia investigation, they cherry picked a phone call the President had with Ukraine to pursue a farcical impeachment. They failed. They lied about our President every day for four years. Having failed everywhere else, they brazenly engaged in systemic voter fraud and are trying to steal this election. They did it right in front of us with no shame.

For months Joe Biden hid while they carefully planned. The “fact-checkers” became more bold — removing reports and slapping “this claim is disputed” labels on anything that might bruise Joe Biden. For weeks leading up to Election Day, we were told to expect Trump to win big on election night but that in the days that followed, Biden would overtake any lead as mail-in ballots were counted. On election night as votes poured in overwhelmingly for President Trump, Joe Biden told supporters to “Keep the Faith” and “We believe we are on track to win this.” The next morning, we all awoke to see massive, statistically impossible spikes in votes for Joe Biden and almost zero for President Trump. Are we witnessing a coup d’etat?

We will not tolerate this.

As many of you know, I helped organize the very first “Stop the Steal” rally in Arizona right after it became clear that voting patterns emerged that could not occur in the absence of fraud. Patriotic warriors joined together to gather evidence and tell the Left we will not accept a coup and a usurper in the White House.

We all remember when candidate Joe Biden held a rally in downtown Phoenix and precisely zero people attended. Nada. Zilch. It was a clear reflection of the utter lack of popular support in Arizona for Biden. Conversely, President Trump held rallies in Yuma, Bullhead City, Prescott, and several other places and 30,000 people showed up in person on 48 hours notice while millions of others watched online. You could not look out your window without seeing patriots waving flags and declaring their support for President Trump. I travel extensively all over this state. I saw 2 maybe 3 signs for Biden between Yuma and Mohave Counties. Otherwise Arizona was a sea of MAGA 2020.

In short, from the pre-election polls, to Election Day, to voter enthusiasm, and to the extreme turnout for Republicans statewide, where every contested down ballot race was won by Republicans (with the notable exception of Martha McSally), it was apparent that Trump would win, and indeed did win, Arizona. It was not even close.

I attended a legislative hearing last Monday and listened to two expert witnesses familiar with Dominion voting software and voting patterns. They both testified that the Arizona results, particularly in Maricopa County, were altered to take votes from President Trump and give them to Biden. Perhaps one of the more damning testimonies came from Dr. Shiva who presented data showing that based upon demographic distribution of Party affiliations, the only way for Biden to have statistically caught up with Donald Trump was if Democrat votes came in at 130% for Biden and -30% for Trump.

A recent hand count of a random sampling of ballots, ordered by a superior court judge, determined that 3% of the votes in Maricopa County were fraudulently recorded against President Trump and in favor of Biden. Considering that Biden supposedly “won” by 0.3%, this theft of votes is more than enough to put Arizona in President Trump’s column and restore his lawful and rightful victory.

We can never accept the results of fraud. Our right to vote includes the right to a fair vote count. I will fight to restore the rightful victor, President Trump. Our Constitution, our Republic and our nation demand election integrity. We are not giving up. The President has not conceded and will not concede to a Third World coup d’etat. We have a constitutional republic, not a banana republic.

Please stay strong and pray for our country and the true President of the United States. Be ready to defend the Constitution and the White House.

By this logic, any state legislature can choose whoever they want.  So why have elections for president?  We can just have each state's current legislature pick the winner and call it a day.

Oh and the 2016 election was rigged.  So every democratic state should change their votes to Hillary.  She can win by a landslide.  Good thing thats illegal, eh?

The state legislators could have sent electors for Hillary if they wanted to. It sounds like you guys didn't do a good enough job of convincing them that the election was fraudulent. Too bad for you guys.

So while what you're suggesting could technically done I would suggest it would cause irreparable damage to the US, you'd be on the brink of a Civil War. And you think that's fine just because your favoured candidate lost and you want him to still be the President? Wow...

Actually, I think that fraud is bad, regardless of whether it's R or D fraud. In light of some of this evidence and concerns, democrats and Joe Biden would help if they were on board with auditing the ballots and voting machines to help show that no fraud has occurred. Instead, democrats are keen to block at every opportunity with the dwindling power they have.

[Rama Set]

What clause in the AZ constitution allows them to ignore their election laws?

[AATW]

Actually, I think that fraud is bad, regardless of whether it's R or D fraud.

No argument there.
But despite all this apparent evidence and all these "concerns", Trump's team are failing over and over in court.
In many cases they have not even alleged fraud.

Recounts have shown no issues. You have Barr saying there's no evidence found of widespread fraud which could change the result. You have security experts saying the technology is safe. Even Trump Tweeted that it was "the most secure election ever"



...and somehow managed to claim in the same Tweet that the Democrats rigged it

And, once again, why would the Dems steal the Presidential election but not rig the Senate one which was on the same ballots? Why do you keep ignoring that?

The reality is...Trump lost. His narcissistic personality disorder may mean he struggles to accept that, but that's the reality. He keeps alleging fraud, fraud, fraud but they keep failing to present any credible evidence in court.

[Tom Bishop]

PA Legal argument to Alito: Noooooo please don't enforce the law

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1336320768888635396

[Rama Set]

The reality is...Trump lost. His narcissistic personality disorder may mean he struggles to accept that, but that's the reality. He keeps alleging fraud, fraud, fraud but they keep failing to present any credible evidence in court.

That and the $200M he has raised pursuing his BS claims.

PA Legal argument to Alito: Noooooo please don't enforce the law

Actually, it's the opposite.  PA is saying that Act 77, which was passed by the GOP should be upheld for this election since millions of votes were cast under the assumption that the GOP passed a constitutional law.  The GOP surely would have agreed had they won, hence the case being rejected on laches.  Changing the rules after the fact is prfoundly disenfranchising.  Why SCOTUS would get involved is puzzling since its a state law about how the state runs its election; clearly something SCOTUS has no jurisdiction over.

[Lord Dave]

I attended a legislative hearing last Monday and listened to two expert witnesses familiar with Dominion voting software and voting patterns. They both testified that the Arizona results, particularly in Maricopa County, were altered to take votes from President Trump and give them to Biden. Perhaps one of the more damning testimonies came from Dr. Shiva who presented data showing that based upon demographic distribution of Party affiliations, the only way for Biden to have statistically caught up with Donald Trump was if Democrat votes came in at 130% for Biden and -30% for Trump.

Or...
30% of Republicans voted for biden.  Because Trump is an embarassment to Republicans and America.

[J-Man]

On Monday Rep. Daniel McCarthy (R-) told the patriotic crowd that legislators invoked Article 2, Section 1 meaning — Arizona is officially a contested election!

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/rep-daniel-mccarthy-announces-arizona-legislators-invoked-article-2-section-1-meaning-arizona-is-officially-contested-election/

Say bye bye Roundy. AZ pooof gone  11 electorial

[Roundy]

On Monday Rep. Daniel McCarthy (R-) told the patriotic crowd that legislators invoked Article 2, Section 1 meaning — Arizona is officially a contested election!

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/rep-daniel-mccarthy-announces-arizona-legislators-invoked-article-2-section-1-meaning-arizona-is-officially-contested-election/

Say bye bye Roundy. AZ pooof gone  11 electorial

You should pay closer attention to the thread. Tom's already being laughed at for posting about this.

[J-Man]

On Monday Rep. Daniel McCarthy (R-) told the patriotic crowd that legislators invoked Article 2, Section 1 meaning — Arizona is officially a contested election!

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/rep-daniel-mccarthy-announces-arizona-legislators-invoked-article-2-section-1-meaning-arizona-is-officially-contested-election/

Say bye bye Roundy. AZ pooof gone  11 electorial

You should pay closer attention to the thread. Tom's already being laughed at for posting about this.

Just get your mustard or ketchup ready, do you like your crow warm or charcoaled? We have many on the grill for you.

[Tom Bishop]

I don't think we've gotten any better rebuttal than 'representatives are not a credible source' yet. He's a representative of his precinct. Pretty odd to go for the 'he's a lying rando!!!' argument.

As mentioned, Arizona legislature has been notably turning against Joe Biden.

Arizona has been on a trend to contest election. Articles from last 9 days:

Nov 30 - Arizona Lawmakers Call for Resolution to Hold Back Electoral College Votes -
https://www.theepochtimes.com/arizona-lawmakers-call-for-resolution-to-hold-back-electoral-college-votes_3599250.html

Dec 1 - Arizona State Rep Issues Call to Withhold State’s Electoral College Votes to Joe Biden Due to Significant Evidence of Fraud - https://humansarefree.com/2020/12/arizona-state-rep-issues-call-to-withhold-states-electoral-college-votes-to-joe-biden-due-to-significant-evidence-of-fraud.html

Dec 4 - Arizona Legislature Calls for Immediate ‘Forensic Audit’ of Dominion Voting Machines - https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/arizona-legislature-calls-for-immediate-forensic-audit-of-dominion-voting-machines_3605367.html?v=ul

Dec 6 - Giuliani says Arizona among a few states drafting documents to change electoral college voters - https://www.theepochtimes.com/rudy-giuliani-three-state-legislatures-may-change-electoral-college-voters_3606962.html

“They’re the first legislature to do this now,” he said of Georgia. “This is a constitutional role that the founding fathers gave to our legislatures. They’re the ones who are supposed to select the president, not the governors, not the board of elections. They’re the ones who have the constitutional obligation to decide on the electors.”

“Michigan is considering the same thing,” Giuliani said. “They’re not quite as far along, but they are drafting something right now, and so is Arizona, so those three … could very well end up in front of the legislature to decide who the electors are.”

[Rama Set]

I don't think we've gotten any better rebuttal than 'representatives are not a credible source' yet. He's a representative of his precinct. Pretty desperate to go for the 'he's a lying rando!!!' argument.

As mentioned, Arizona legislature has been notably turning against Joe Biden.

Arizona has been on a trend to contest election. Articles from last 9 days:

Nov 30 - Arizona Lawmakers Call for Resolution to Hold Back Electoral College Votes -
https://www.theepochtimes.com/arizona-lawmakers-call-for-resolution-to-hold-back-electoral-college-votes_3599250.html

Dec 1 - Arizona State Rep Issues Call to Withhold State’s Electoral College Votes to Joe Biden Due to Significant Evidence of Fraud - https://humansarefree.com/2020/12/arizona-state-rep-issues-call-to-withhold-states-electoral-college-votes-to-joe-biden-due-to-significant-evidence-of-fraud.html

Dec 4 - Arizona Legislature Calls for Immediate ‘Forensic Audit’ of Dominion Voting Machines - https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/arizona-legislature-calls-for-immediate-forensic-audit-of-dominion-voting-machines_3605367.html?v=ul

Dec 6 - Giuliani says Arizona among a few states drafting documents to change electoral college voters - https://www.theepochtimes.com/rudy-giuliani-three-state-legislatures-may-change-electoral-college-voters_3606962.html

“They’re the first legislature to do this now,” he said of Georgia. “This is a constitutional role that the founding fathers gave to our legislatures. They’re the ones who are supposed to select the president, not the governors, not the board of elections. They’re the ones who have the constitutional obligation to decide on the electors.”

“Michigan is considering the same thing,” Giuliani said. “They’re not quite as far along, but they are drafting something right now, and so is Arizona, so those three … could very well end up in front of the legislature to decide who the electors are.”

So it "could" end up in front of the legislature to do what?  The electors were approved following the process supported by statute.  What legal mechanism is there to overturn the election laws in their state?  My guess would be that the legislature could maybe sue the governor/canvassing board and it could be overturned if there was some illegality to the certification of electors, but so far, no illegality has been convincing under the scrutiny of a judge.  This is purely the GOP being a bunch of sycophantic and vapid sore losers.  It's not surprising they have accepted Trump as their leader.