I mean, really? Who would care to hide something like that? I don't buy the hiding God theory that many espouse. It doesn't make sense.

Also, curious if there are various divisions within the FE believers? Are some religious and some not? I'm just trying to learn more than you can find on youtube etc.

I will agree that NASA is faking much if not all space and moon footages...not seeing a flat Earth connection but they are hiding something for sure. I am suspecting people cannot survive going through that radiation belt so they fake anything involving people being there and to such far away places.

Anyways, new guy here just want friendly discussion so I can learn etc.

JohnAdams1145

FE believes NASA is mistaken on the shape of the Earth.

https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy

If you want reasons why this idea is junk, you'll have to ask in FE Debate.

FE believes NASA is mistaken on the shape of the Earth.

https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy

If you want reasons why this idea is junk, you'll have to ask in FE Debate.
Mistaken is an interesting word.  We see the sun move around the earth every day and have measured distances. Why maintain the earth is not round?  There is a radio interview with Pete Svarrior who does not sound convincing.

http://talkradio.co.uk/pete-svarrior
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 07:35:26 PM by inquisitive »

The most primal reason for this belief is religious. When you really get down to it, Flat Earthers will say the Bible says the earth is flat ( I personally haven't seen that in my Bible but hey, reasons). The more "enlightened, scientific ones" will claim otherwise. They will say it has nothing to do with religion. But every now and then they'll blame the evil satanist free masonic NASA and evil satanist free masonic Scientists for the deception.

The claim is that a round earth orbiting a yellow dwarf star in some none-descript part of an unimportant galaxy in a gargantuan universe is an argument used to deny God.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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When you really get down to it, Flat Earthers will say the Bible says the earth is flat
I would recommend that you "really get down to it" before making silly claims like this. The vast majority of the FES is atheist or agnostic.

But every now and then they'll blame the evil satanist free masonic NASA and evil satanist free masonic Scientists for the deception.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, that also doesn't really happen.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

Offline StinkyOne

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I would recommend that you "really get down to it" before making silly claims like this. The vast majority of the FES is atheist or agnostic.

I wouldn't claim to know where the majority of FEers stand on religion, but the modern founders were often basing their beliefs on what was in the bible. It's like Christmas, it has changed to become a pretty non-religious holiday, but it was originally Christian. (not getting into the Pagan side of things) Not saying most current FEers are religious, just adding some historical info.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

It’s interesting that Pete says the vast majority of FEers are atheist or agnostic, as an atheist myself, nothing would convince me more that there was a creator than a flat earth, with a dome that defies all reason, logic and science.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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I wouldn't claim to know where the majority of FEers stand on religion, but the modern founders were often basing their beliefs on what was in the bible. It's like Christmas, it has changed to become a pretty non-religious holiday, but it was originally Christian. (not getting into the Pagan side of things) Not saying most current FEers are religious, just adding some historical info.
That's correct, and a valuable addition. I guess it's convenient for us to overlook that at times.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

SylvanCyborg

I think the origin of the spherical earth theory is a symptom of intellectual elitism. I don't think it was meant to trick people or hide the truth.

I think it emerged from the fact that scientists became this close knit group of elites. They became increasingly focused on clever math and theories, instead of common sense Zetetic knowledge of regular people.

Another way if describing this is metaphysics. The theorists tend to think about metaphysical abstactions. They highly value complex ideas over down to earth knowledge.

So science became a club for these people to indulge in higher and more complex abstractions. That's where we are today. You have to know about 11 dimensional realities to be in the club. Science today over values theory, and under values empirical evidence

They reason NASA and others maintain a deception is due to social pressures. The establishment is just too invested in these metaphysical ideas. The problem is that NASA for example has to do the dirty job of aligning these theories with our tangible reality.

These theories make little sense when applied to the real world. They only exist in the minds of people as abstract ideas. Still, since society is so invested in them, so committed, they just dig in harder.

They just can't accept that their reality could be wrong. They are stuck in a paradigm, and they refuse to let go.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 11:15:27 PM by SylvanCyborg »

Offline StinkyOne

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I think the origin of the spherical earth theory is a symptom of intellectual elitism. I don't think it was meant to trick people or hide the truth.

I think it emerged from the fact that scientists became this close knit group of elites. They became increasingly focused on clever math and theories, instead of common sense Zetetic knowledge of regular people.

Another way if describing this is metaphysics. The theorists tend to think about metaphysical abstactions. They highly value complex ideas over down to earth knowledge.

So science became a club for these people to indulge in higher and more complex abstractions. That's where we are today. You have to know about 11 dimensional realities to be in the club. Science today over values theory, and under values empirical evidence

They reason NASA and others maintain a deception is due to social pressures. The establishment is just too invested in these metaphysical ideas. The problem is that NASA for example has to do the dirty job of aligning these theories with our tangible reality.

These theories make little sense when applied to the real world. They only exist in the minds of people as abstract ideas. Still, since society is so invested in them, so committed, they just dig in harder.

They just can't accept that their reality could be wrong. They are stuck in a paradigm, and they refuse to let go.

You are aware that "science" is an extremely broad field, right. There are applied and theoretical branches. You can't apply blanket statements to all of it. The problem isn't "science" it is lack of science education.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

SylvanCyborg

You are aware that "science" is an extremely broad field, right. There are applied and theoretical branches. You can't apply blanket statements to all of it. The problem isn't "science" it is lack of science education.

I can make whatever statements I want.

But more to the point, I think that Scientism as a belief system is dominant in all areas of science, and beyond that to society at large. In short, the standard materialist view of the world, along with the belief that we went to the moon, that we live on a sphere floating in space, etc...

By lack of science education, do you mean teaching kids about space, the big bang, etc...? Or do you mean teaching them the scientific method and critical thinking skills? If you mean the latter, I'm in complete agreement.

I don't expect anything will change with the former. Like I said, this belief system is dominant in all areas of our society, especially among scientists.

Offline StinkyOne

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You are aware that "science" is an extremely broad field, right. There are applied and theoretical branches. You can't apply blanket statements to all of it. The problem isn't "science" it is lack of science education.

I can make whatever statements I want.

But more to the point, I think that Scientism as a belief system is dominant in all areas of science, and beyond that to society at large. In short, the standard materialist view of the world, along with the belief that we went to the moon, that we live on a sphere floating in space, etc...

By lack of science education, do you mean teaching kids about space, the big bang, etc...? Or do you mean teaching them the scientific method and critical thinking skills? If you mean the latter, I'm in complete agreement.

I don't expect anything will change with the former. Like I said, this belief system is dominant in all areas of our society, especially among scientists.

I never said you couldn't make statements. I'm saying the content of your message is wrong.
All aspects of scientific education. (Varies with where you live, obviously) It's like the idiots calling the SpaceX launch fake because they couldn't see stars when shots of the car in space were shown. SMH...just sad.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

SylvanCyborg

I never said you couldn't make statements. I'm saying the content of your message is wrong.
All aspects of scientific education. (Varies with where you live, obviously) It's like the idiots calling the SpaceX launch fake because they couldn't see stars when shots of the car in space were shown. SMH...just sad.

We all know the SpaceX launch must be real right? I mean, it only needs to go 17,500 miles per hour to escape the earth. For reference, there are 17.60 football fields in 1 mile. So that's no problem right? I mean it's only a few thousand kg, so totally no problem there.

Or in other words, 4.86 miles per second. Let's see, 4.86 miles per second, is that something like over 80 football fields in one second? Math is not my strong suit, so please tell me if I got this wrong?

Good thing we have science to tell us this would work, or I might think this was crazy.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 05:52:46 AM by SylvanCyborg »

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Offline Buran

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I never said you couldn't make statements. I'm saying the content of your message is wrong.
All aspects of scientific education. (Varies with where you live, obviously) It's like the idiots calling the SpaceX launch fake because they couldn't see stars when shots of the car in space were shown. SMH...just sad.

We all know the SpaceX launch must be real right? I mean, it only needs to go 17,500 miles per hour to escape the earth. For reference, there are 17.60 football fields in 1 mile. So that's no problem right? I mean it's only a few thousand kg, so totally no problem there.

Or in other words, 4.86 miles per second. Let's see, 4.86 miles per second, is that something like over 80 football fields in one second? Math is not my strong suit, so please tell me if I got this wrong?

Good thing we have science to tell us this would work, or I might think this was crazy.

Your math looks solid, so no you're not crazy. Yes, good thing we had science to develop and refine launch systems to the point that now a private company will be the first to colonize another planet. Rockets are truly fascinating.
Nicole, show me schematics for "Flat Earth."

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Offline AATW

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I never said you couldn't make statements. I'm saying the content of your message is wrong.
All aspects of scientific education. (Varies with where you live, obviously) It's like the idiots calling the SpaceX launch fake because they couldn't see stars when shots of the car in space were shown. SMH...just sad.

We all know the SpaceX launch must be real right? I mean, it only needs to go 17,500 miles per hour to escape the earth. For reference, there are 17.60 football fields in 1 mile. So that's no problem right? I mean it's only a few thousand kg, so totally no problem there.

Or in other words, 4.86 miles per second. Let's see, 4.86 miles per second, is that something like over 80 football fields in one second? Math is not my strong suit, so please tell me if I got this wrong?

Good thing we have science to tell us this would work, or I might think this was crazy.
Your argument basically seems to be "I don't understand how rockets work, therefore they don't".
That really isn't an argument.
The SpaceX launch is all on video, there are numerous witnesses to the launch and lots of amateur footage.
Someone did some excellent analysis on another thread comparing weather patterns from weather satellites compared with the SpaceX live stream.
While we are here, I've seen a Shuttle launch with my own eyes one time I happened to be on holiday in Florida at the right time.
If you have any evidence that the launch was faked then please present it. You not understanding how rockets work isn't evidence.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"


I will agree that NASA is faking much if not all space and moon footages...not seeing a flat Earth connection but they are hiding something for sure. I am suspecting people cannot survive going through that radiation belt so they fake anything involving people being there and to such far away places.


Why will you say NASA fakes most if not all space footage?

For the Van Allen belts, you do realise that they generally go around the belts or spend as short a time going through them. Over the course of the lunar missions, astronauts were exposed to doses lower than the yearly 5 rem average experienced by workers with the Atomic Energy Commission who regularly deal with radioactive materials. The only way to discount this is to say NASA is part of a conspiracy. Now since you accept the earth is spherical, what conspiracy makes NASA falsify this and other aspects of space flight.

SylvanCyborg

Your argument basically seems to be "I don't understand how rockets work, therefore they don't".
That really isn't an argument.
The SpaceX launch is all on video, there are numerous witnesses to the launch and lots of amateur footage.
Someone did some excellent analysis on another thread comparing weather patterns from weather satellites compared with the SpaceX live stream.
While we are here, I've seen a Shuttle launch with my own eyes one time I happened to be on holiday in Florida at the right time.
If you have any evidence that the launch was faked then please present it. You not understanding how rockets work isn't evidence.

Agreed, they launch. They go up, then turn sideways, then go off over the ocean and land in the ocean. I meant it was fake in the sense that it doesn't go 17,500 mph into space.

Your response basically ignored the point I was making, and just attempts to shut down the conversation. Answer the real question here: do you believe the rocket goes 17,500 mph into space?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 02:14:29 PM by SylvanCyborg »

Your argument basically seems to be "I don't understand how rockets work, therefore they don't".
That really isn't an argument.
The SpaceX launch is all on video, there are numerous witnesses to the launch and lots of amateur footage.
Someone did some excellent analysis on another thread comparing weather patterns from weather satellites compared with the SpaceX live stream.
While we are here, I've seen a Shuttle launch with my own eyes one time I happened to be on holiday in Florida at the right time.
If you have any evidence that the launch was faked then please present it. You not understanding how rockets work isn't evidence.

Agreed, they launch. They go up, then turn sideways, then go off over the ocean and land in the ocean. I meant it was fake in the sense that it doesn't go 17,500 mph into space.

Your response basically ignored the point I was making, and just attempts to shut down the conversation. Answer the real question here: do you believe the rocket goes 17,500 mph into space?
Is there a reason why it should not?  Other than 'I don't understand it'.

Your argument basically seems to be "I don't understand how rockets work, therefore they don't".
That really isn't an argument.
The SpaceX launch is all on video, there are numerous witnesses to the launch and lots of amateur footage.
Someone did some excellent analysis on another thread comparing weather patterns from weather satellites compared with the SpaceX live stream.
While we are here, I've seen a Shuttle launch with my own eyes one time I happened to be on holiday in Florida at the right time.
If you have any evidence that the launch was faked then please present it. You not understanding how rockets work isn't evidence.

Agreed, they launch. They go up, then turn sideways, then go off over the ocean and land in the ocean. I meant it was fake in the sense that it doesn't go 17,500 mph into space.

Your response basically ignored the point I was making, and just attempts to shut down the conversation. Answer the real question here: do you believe the rocket goes 17,500 mph into space?

Why is that so crazy to believe that the rocket can reach speeds of 17,500 mph? Is that for some reason some magical thing that humans can't hope to achieve?

SylvanCyborg

Your argument basically seems to be "I don't understand how rockets work, therefore they don't".
That really isn't an argument.
The SpaceX launch is all on video, there are numerous witnesses to the launch and lots of amateur footage.
Someone did some excellent analysis on another thread comparing weather patterns from weather satellites compared with the SpaceX live stream.
While we are here, I've seen a Shuttle launch with my own eyes one time I happened to be on holiday in Florida at the right time.
If you have any evidence that the launch was faked then please present it. You not understanding how rockets work isn't evidence.

Agreed, they launch. They go up, then turn sideways, then go off over the ocean and land in the ocean. I meant it was fake in the sense that it doesn't go 17,500 mph into space.

Your response basically ignored the point I was making, and just attempts to shut down the conversation. Answer the real question here: do you believe the rocket goes 17,500 mph into space?

Why is that so crazy to believe that the rocket can reach speeds of 17,500 mph? Is that for some reason some magical thing that humans can't hope to achieve?

If you believe a rocket can travel the length of 86 football fields each second, I guess there's nothing more to say. We are just not going to agree, so I guess I'll just leave it as agree to disagree.

But just want to be clear, this is something that you believe if you accept the official story. We can only get the SR71 jet plane to a speed of 3,540 km/h (2199.654mph). At that speed, the thermal expansion starts to pull the thing apart. But rockets? Oh they can go 17, 500 mph, no problem of course. I must be stupid to question that right?

Anyway, agree to disagree.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 07:51:16 PM by SylvanCyborg »