Offline Flatout

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Suns Position on 12/12/16
« on: December 13, 2016, 04:41:37 AM »
What latitude ring is the sun orbiting on 12/12/16?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Suns Position on 12/12/16
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2016, 07:06:51 AM »
What latitude ring is the sun orbiting on 12/12/16?
This is from a very much Globe Earth site NOAA ESRL, Solar Position Calculator.
It is a "fiddly" to use for this purpose, but I think you will find that
         on 12/Dec/16, the sun was directly over Lat 23.13°S and
         on 21/Dec/16, the sun will be directly over Lat 23.44°S, that is, the Tropic of Capricorn.
But the answers from the Flat Earth calculations would I imagine lead to the same result.

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Offline LuggerSailor

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Re: Suns Position on 12/12/16
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2016, 12:34:49 PM »
What latitude ring is the sun orbiting on 12/12/16?
This is from a very much Globe Earth site NOAA ESRL, Solar Position Calculator.
It is a "fiddly" to use for this purpose, but I think you will find that
         on 12/Dec/16, the sun was directly over Lat 23.13°S and
         on 21/Dec/16, the sun will be directly over Lat 23.44°S, that is, the Tropic of Capricorn.
But the answers from the Flat Earth calculations would I imagine lead to the same result.

Hey, lets all post observations of the sun's elevation at our local noon's on the 21st December. We could include the latitude at which the observation was taken and post the results as answers to this thread.
The results and the conclusions people draw from them could be "interesting".
LuggerSailor.
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Re: Suns Position on 12/12/16
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2016, 03:57:52 PM »
What latitude ring is the sun orbiting on 12/12/16?
This is from a very much Globe Earth site NOAA ESRL, Solar Position Calculator.
It is a "fiddly" to use for this purpose, but I think you will find that
         on 12/Dec/16, the sun was directly over Lat 23.13°S and
         on 21/Dec/16, the sun will be directly over Lat 23.44°S, that is, the Tropic of Capricorn.
But the answers from the Flat Earth calculations would I imagine lead to the same result.

Hey, lets all post observations of the sun's elevation at our local noon's on the 21st December. We could include the latitude at which the observation was taken and post the results as answers to this thread.
The results and the conclusions people draw from them could be "interesting".

I'm down. I would need some information on how to set up the photograph though... I'm not an astrologist like most people on this forum.

Offline Flatout

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Re: Suns Position on 12/12/16
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2016, 07:47:14 PM »
What latitude ring is the sun orbiting on 12/12/16?
This is from a very much Globe Earth site NOAA ESRL, Solar Position Calculator.
It is a "fiddly" to use for this purpose, but I think you will find that
         on 12/Dec/16, the sun was directly over Lat 23.13°S and
         on 21/Dec/16, the sun will be directly over Lat 23.44°S, that is, the Tropic of Capricorn.
But the answers from the Flat Earth calculations would I imagine lead to the same result.

Hey, lets all post observations of the sun's elevation at our local noon's on the 21st December. We could include the latitude at which the observation was taken and post the results as answers to this thread.
The results and the conclusions people draw from them could be "interesting".
So we would measure the sunrise azimuth, high noon elevation in degrees above level in degrees, and sunset azimuth?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Suns Position on 12/12/16
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2016, 08:48:48 AM »
Hey, lets all post observations of the sun's elevation at our local noon's on the 21st December. We could include the latitude at which the observation was taken and post the results as answers to this thread.
The results and the conclusions people draw from them could be "interesting".
I'm down. I would need some information on how to set up the photograph though... I'm not an astronomer like most people on this forum.
I imagine you did mean astronomer? You should see what my spell checker does to me sometimes.

I'm afraid I would not be able to measure elevation angle very accurately either,
but with a straight stick (or a tent pole, 3 tent ropes an 3 tent pegs), a little tent peg, a piece of string, a level and a tape measure you can do it accurately enough.
Tie the string to the top of the stick or pole.
Drive the stick vertically into the ground (hence the level) or guy a tent pole vertical with 3 tent ropes and pegs.
At solar noon (get this from some website) line the string with the shadow of the sun and anchor it there with the peg.

From the height of the pole and the distance of the end of the shadow from the base of the (hopefully vertical), you can easily calculate the elevation angle.

More significant for the model, are the azimuth angles (north is 0°, east 90° south 180° and west 270°) of sunrise and sunset. The compass on a smartphone (if calibrated) is quite god enough.
I hope my attempt at explanation is understandable.

The same measurements at equinox and your summer solstice are very significant.
I have claimed that at either equinox, the sun rises (almost) due east everywhere on earth, except very close to the poles.
Of course, I get asked to prove it - well on my own, I can't do that, but if enough people independently measure it, maybe it will be convincing.

Offline Flatout

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Re: Suns Position on 12/12/16
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 02:10:18 AM »
There are many inclinometer apps that will get you within a degree or two. 

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Suns Position on 12/12/16
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2016, 11:44:56 PM »
There are many inclinometer apps that will get you within a degree or two.
Yes, that would be better, but I wouldn't point my phone directly at the sun without a suitable filter, though a relatively inexpensive arc welding filter is OK.

NASA suggests "One of the most widely available filters for safe solar viewing is a number 14 welder's glass, available through welding supply outlets."

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Offline LuggerSailor

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Re: Suns Position on 12/12/16
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2016, 12:32:20 PM »
Cloudy and raining here today but managed to get a sighting yesterday.

I'm at 53 degrees, 45min North and the sun was at an elevation of 13 degrees at local noon.
LuggerSailor.
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Offline LuggerSailor

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Re: Suns Position on 12/12/16
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2016, 06:24:44 PM »
No one else observed the sun's elevation at the solstice?

The geometry is quite interesting. I'm about 77.25° North of the Tropic of Capricorn. Each degree is 60 Nautical miles which works out that I'm 5334 miles North of the Tropic of Capricorn. Using trigonometry to calculate the vertical height of the sun above the Tropic on a flat plane, 5334*tan(13) = 1234. That doesn't fit with a 3000 mile height of the sun above a flat plane.
The 13° elevation does fit with the 77° angle between the Tropic and my location on a globe with a far distant sun (ok, I might have been 1/4 of a degree off in my measurement of the sun's elevation)
LuggerSailor.
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