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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9400 on: February 01, 2022, 05:29:58 PM »
2. Nowhere in that short clip did they mention where they were or where this info was comming from.

So you concede then that I was correct in my assessment that "It doesn't say that it's test data."

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9401 on: February 01, 2022, 06:21:17 PM »
Holy shit, are two threads about covid not enough? This one has to be about covid too? Let's talk about Trump.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-torn-up-records-national-archives-jan-6-committee-164716852.html

what in the fuck
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #9402 on: February 01, 2022, 06:54:35 PM »
Holy shit, are two threads about covid not enough? This one has to be about covid too? Let's talk about Trump.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-torn-up-records-national-archives-jan-6-committee-164716852.html

what in the fuck

Trump had a thing about tearing up his documents despite being told it is illegal:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164

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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9403 on: February 01, 2022, 06:56:01 PM »
Trump never gave a shit about following the law and his supporters have no problems with that.
I hope you understand we're maintaining a valuable resource here....

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9404 on: February 01, 2022, 07:00:50 PM »
Holy shit, are two threads about covid not enough? This one has to be about covid too? Let's talk about Trump.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-torn-up-records-national-archives-jan-6-committee-164716852.html

what in the fuck
?? Whose talking about Covid here?

2. Nowhere in that short clip did they mention where they were or where this info was comming from.

So you concede then that I was correct in my assessment that "It doesn't say that it's test data."
It does not.  Nor does it say its live data.  Or really where that data comes from specifically.  But based on the formatting of the data it looks like test data.  Either that or its corrupted data.  Or its manually changed data so those entries are not ready by the system. (because any voting software that reads an apostrophy as a valid voter ID number is a badly written one)

However, I'm going to recind my test data theory.  It seems more likely that its either corrupt data or an attempt to invalidate the data.
The reason being is that there IS a Daniel Thomas Siehr in who lived (at some point) in Monona Wisconson, which is in Dane County.  I used www.whitepages.com so the information may not be accurate.  (it lists my current address as being in New York, which I haven't lived for over 6 years.)
I'll see if I can find an obituary.

Nope, can't find one with a quick search.  And I'm too lazy to look for the others.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9405 on: February 04, 2022, 02:35:25 PM »
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/02/03/politics/arizona-bill-reject-election-results-effectively-blocked/index.html

It so often looks like the entire party has sold out and gone corrupt, it's nice to see a reminder here and there that there are still some Republicans with principles fighting the good fight.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #9406 on: February 05, 2022, 03:41:23 AM »
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/592878-pence-breaks-with-trump-i-had-no-right-to-overturn-the-election

I’m happy Pence is willing to call out Trump. Now Ya’ll Qaeda is going to be real pissed.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9407 on: February 05, 2022, 07:39:28 PM »
?? Whose talking about Covid here?

Sorry about that. I kind of lost track of what was being discussed.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/592878-pence-breaks-with-trump-i-had-no-right-to-overturn-the-election

I’m happy Pence is willing to call out Trump. Now Ya’ll Qaeda is going to be real pissed.

Does he really have a choice, though? Pence has already made an enemy of Trump and his fans for life. No amount of groveling will get him back in their good graces. Sticking to his guns isn't an act of courage or a demonstration of his principles; it's him simply doing the only thing he can do if he wants to eke out a political future in whatever small corner of the GOP hopefully won't be dominated by Trump. I would go so far as to suggest that Pence, who stood loyally by a man who every day seemed to revel in what a horrible person he was, not even offering the occasional rebuke like what we saw from Republican members of Congress, doesn't really have any principles at all - or at least that they've been entirely drowned out by his grim ends-justify-the-means partisanship. There's no way to prove this, of course, but I'd be willing to bet that Pence bitterly regrets not playing along with Trump's scheme and refusing to certify the election. He probably assumed - along with plenty of other people at the time, including Republicans - that the Capitol attack spelled the end of Trump's political career and dominance of the GOP.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9408 on: February 05, 2022, 07:56:04 PM »
Quote
..that the Capitol attack spelled the end of Trump's political career and dominance of the GOP.
Honestly, I think it did.  But not because the people destroyed Trump but because Trump is sick of dealing with the fallout of his own actions and wants nice, easy, praise without the risk of being arrested for treason.

In 2017, he filed to run for reelection January 21st.  1 day after being sworn in.  It was so he could still campaign and collect money.
But even now he STILL hasn't put up his bid for 2024.
Tells me he doesn't really want it.  That being president was too much for him and while he hates losing more, he's probably happy to just rile on "having it stolen from him" until the end of days rather than run again in 2024.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9409 on: February 06, 2022, 12:42:41 AM »
I don't think you can draw any meaningful conclusions from how quickly Trump filed to run for reelection. It was already a given that he would be running for reelection, as virtually all presidents run for reelection - although Biden might end up bucking the trend due to his age. My guess is that Trump filed so quickly simply as a show of bravado, to demonstrate that he was so confident that he'd be a great president that he was already ready for another four years. For 2024, with Trump not being the incumbent, it doesn't make much sense for him to jump the gun and file particularly early. Why distract from the midterms? Why give the Democrats and his Republican rivals advance notice that they'll definitely be facing him in 2024?

In any case, Trump's political career is going strong and will continue to regardless of whether or not he runs in 2024. He's making speeches, holding rallies, endorsing or speaking out against candidates as he chooses, and he's still overwhelmingly popular among Republicans. If he chooses not to run, it won't be so he can quietly retire, it'll be so he can play the role of a powerful kingmaker behind the scenes.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9410 on: February 06, 2022, 01:50:35 AM »
I'm guessing, since he and his team are extremely media savvy, that he'll wait until the last possible moment to announce as long as the coffers are full. Make a splash pseudo-surprise announcement, whilst during the run-up stirring up the 'will he or won't he' into a media frenzy. Let all the R contenders wrestle around in the mud for months then glide down the elevator once again, like he did on June 16, 2015, and step right over the unwashed pile of contenders and waltz into the nomination. Then ride the MAGA hysteria wave, the any publicity is good publicity axiom, right into the oval office.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9411 on: February 06, 2022, 08:56:04 AM »
Quote
Why distract from the midterms?
This is Trump.  He would think its an honor for others to campaign with him.  Plus he can't collect campaign funds unless he runs, which he likes.  Tho he's probably pulling in alot of money without it.  Easier money too. (Less laws around it)

I understand him not doing it in the first year: he was hoping to overturn it.  But now?  If he wants to run, it doesn't make sense why he isn't stopping the flood of republicans now.  Why fight the other contenders?

Unless the GOP told him to wait.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9412 on: February 11, 2022, 07:49:17 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/10/trump-records-classified/

This may be paywalled.  I'll copy from the facebook post..
Long story short: Trump not only ripped up, damaged, or flushed documents but also took Top Secret documents home to his very open country club, Mar-a-Lago.  He also tried to hide calls on Jan 6 as well.

Quote
February 10, 2022 (Thursday)

This morning’s news that former president Trump apparently clogged a White House toilet repeatedly with discarded documents was overtaken this evening by the news that some of the records Trump took from the White House were clearly marked as classified, some of them “top secret.”

The news of the flushed documents came through Axios from New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman, whose book about Trump will be out in October. By law, the records of a presidential administration belong to the American people; there are strict laws about how they should be handled and preserved. That Trump ignored the Presidential Records Act was known because of stories of how he ripped up documents that others tried to tape back together, but the idea that he was flushing so many documents he periodically clogged the toilet seemed a commentary on his regard for the American people who owned those documents.

And yet, by the end of the day, the flushing was not the big story.

In the 15 boxes of material the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) recovered from the former president’s Florida home, Mar-a-Lago, archivists discovered top secret documents. Top secret clearance is applied to documents whose disclosure “could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security” of the United States. They are supposed to be kept secure, and to be seen only by authorized individuals. NARA officials had been trying to retrieve missing documents since last summer (never, never, mess with archivists—they keep meticulous records), and Trump refused to hand them over. When they found the mishandled documents, they called the Justice Department.

Reid J. Epstein and Michael S. Schmidt in the New York Times recalled that Trump’s handling of sensitive national security documents was so lackadaisical that when he was White House chief of staff, General John F. Kelly tried to stop Trump from taking classified documents out of the Oval Office out of concern that he would jeopardize national security. Epstein and Schmidt recounted how Trump used to rip pictures out of the President’s Daily Brief, the daily bulletin of national security threats. Now, it appears he took secret material and did not keep it secure.

Certainly, Trump knew he was breaking the law. White House counsel Donald McGahn warned him about the Presidential Records Act. So did two chiefs of staff, Reince Priebus and Kelly. In 2017, internal White House memos warned against destroying presidential records, noting that such destruction is a crime. The editorial board of the Washington Post called Trump’s mutilated records, “a wrenching testimony to his penchant for wanton destruction.”

This story is about the stealing of our records and the endangerment of our national security—and the heroism of archivists—but it is also a story about the media. The defining narrative of the 2016 election was about Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton’s emails, allegedly mishandled. Again and again, the email story was front-page news. A 2017 study in the Columbia Journalism Review by Duncan J. Watts and David M. Rothschild found that the New York Times in six days published as many cover stories about Clinton’s emails as they did about “all the policy issues combined in the 69 days leading up to the election.” The network news gave more time to Clinton’s emails than to all policy issues combined.

Today, Matthew Gertz of Media Matters for America noted that the Trump story should mean that finally “political journalists should stop pretending to believe Republicans when they pretend to be outraged about purportedly illegal or unethical behavior by Democrats.” He compiled a long list of all the Fox News Channel stories about Clinton’s emails and said, “Based on the 2015–16 baseline, Trump flagrantly violating the Presidential Records Act should be a massive story.” Aaron Rupar, author of the newsletter Public Notice, tweeted the obvious: “If two prominent reporters broke news that Joe Biden was flushing documents down White House toilets, [Fox News Channel personality Sean] Hannity would anchor special Fox News coverage that would last through 2024. Trump flushing documents down WH toilets has been mentioned twice on Fox News today, once in passing.”

The House Oversight Committee has announced it will investigate the “potential serious violations” of the Presidential Records Act. Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo was more to the point, saying that Trump’s destruction of evidence amounted to “willful and deliberate destruction of government records for the purpose of concealment.”

That analysis agrees with the discovery by the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the U.S. Capitol that the White House phone logs for the day of the insurrection have gaps in them: calls they know Trump made to lawmakers are missing. This may be in part because he used his own private cell phone or the phones of aides.

The destruction of documents in the Iran-Contra affair of the 1980s hamstrung the investigation, but it is not clear that, in this era, the concealment will be so effective. Yesterday, lawyers for the Department of Justice provided 19 pages of information to the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, outlining how they are getting through the massive amounts of information they have, using cell phone records, internet records, geolocation, data aggregators, and so on. It doesn't seem like much is slipping by.

While the investigation by the January 6 committee and the angry split in the Republican Party after the Republican National Committee excused the insurrection as “legitimate political discourse” have gotten all the headlines, the Biden administration has been working to rebuild and redefine the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) for a new era.

Dr. Mike Martin, a war studies visiting fellow at King’s College London, notes that it is hardly a secret that Russian president Vladimir Putin wants a buffer around Russia of states that are not allied with his enemies. If they cannot be allied with Russia, at least they will be chaotic and neutral, rather than pro-democracy and anti-corruption.

Martin notes it is not a coincidence that Putin decided to test NATO right as German leadership shifts from former German chancellor Angela Merkel to Olaf Scholz, as the U.K. is reeling from scandals surrounding Prime Minister Boris Johnson, and, I would add, as Biden is trying to rebuild the U.S. in the face of open hostility from Republicans after we have suffered far higher Covid death rates than other large, wealthy nations—63% higher since December 1, according to the New York Times.

But the allies surprised Putin by pulling together, in large part because of a sustained and thorough effort by the U.S. State Department, an effort that European diplomats told journalist and political scientist David Rothkopf was “unprecedented.” In a piece for the Daily Beast, Rothkopf notes that the dissolution of the USSR left NATO, along with other international institutions, adrift. The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, fed the U.S. sense that it could and should act on its own, getting us into the quagmires of Afghanistan and Iraq, which then shaped President Barack Obama’s caution as he tried simply not to screw up on the international stage. Then Trump actively worked to weaken international alliances.

Now, Biden, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, and National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan are trying to rebuild NATO and international alliances, focusing on diplomacy. Recognizing that we cannot combat the crises of climate change, pandemics, and emerging technologies without cooperation, they are emphasizing a rules-based international order, and working with others, whose voices matter: “nothing about us without us.”

One diplomat for the European Union told Rothkopf these qualities are “refreshing and, in a way, revolutionary.” A scholar of diplomacy put it like this: “When there are lots of moving pieces in play, when there appears to be the chance for seismic shifts in power, these can call forth a golden age of diplomacy. And the coalition builders, the conceivers of grand alliances, the ones who work well with others, these almost always prevail in the face of a bullying despot.”

Still, no one knows what Russia will do, although as the ground softens, an invasion becomes more difficult. Yesterday, Russia expert and former U.S. ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul added another piece: “Putin knows…NATO won’t accept new members who have Russian soldiers occupying parts of their countries, because NATO members don’t want a war with Russia. That's why Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 & Ukraine 2014.” Russia currently has troops in Belarus that it says are only there temporarily.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9413 on: February 11, 2022, 08:13:28 AM »
Quote
he ripped up documents

The president isn't given the copy used for archiving. This was pointed out when Nancy Pelosi ripped up a copy of Trump's State of the Union address. She was given a copy. There are specific people who actually do the archiving. If a politician is given the only sole copy of a document to exist, and it doesn't even exist on a computer somewhere, it means that someone made a pretty bad mistake.

Quote
some of the records Trump took from the White House were clearly marked as classified, some of them “top secret.”

The part they left out is that ex-presidents get to keep their security clearances and can even get CIA briefings

The current authority for former presidents to access CIA information is given as:

32 CFR § 1909.1 - Authority and purpose.

Quote
(b) Purpose. This part prescribes procedures for waiving the need-to-know requirement for access to classified information with respect to persons:

...

(3) Requesting access to classified CIA information as a former President or Vice President.

The Official Fahrenheit 9-11 Reader - https://books.google.com/books?id=-kmqVwE8x1YC&lpg=PT61&ots=VA9eweSoSD&pg=PT61#v=onepage&q&f=false



https://www.newsweek.com/trump-calls-claims-he-wanted-cut-obama-intelligence-briefings-fake-news-1082650

Quote
Why do former presidents and officials continue to receive intelligence?

In addition to meeting with foreign leaders, former presidents and intelligence officials are expected to receive intelligence briefings for a number of other reasons.

One of the most obvious reasons is so that they can continue to advise the sitting administration and officials on incidents that may either be ongoing or reflect those of the past.

"Having former senior officials hold active security clearances can be critically important for those currently charged with defending our nation," Jamil N. Jaffer, who was associate counsel to President George W. Bush and founder of George Mason University's National Security Institute, told The Washington Post in a recent interview.

"It allows them to turn rapidly to people with significant experience, context and contacts to help interpret the activity of our opponents and to provide wise counsel and guidance, whether that's in the terrorism, foreign policy or any national security context," he said.

The bolded suggests that they get to keep holding security clearances.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 08:53:14 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9414 on: February 11, 2022, 12:13:13 PM »
Quote
he ripped up documents

The president isn't given the copy used for archiving. This was pointed out when Nancy Pelosi ripped up a copy of Trump's State of the Union address. She was given a copy. There are specific people who actually do the archiving. If a politician is given the only sole copy of a document to exist, and it doesn't even exist on a computer somewhere, it means that someone made a pretty bad mistake.
Not understanding the Presidential Records Act is about THE PRESIDENT and not the speaker of the house kinda speaks volumes about you, doesn't it?
Its not about 'the only copy' its about 'The president's copy'.  Every document, email, phone call, etc.. the president has, writes, or speaks needs to be archived.  Every scrap of paper that crosses his desk goes into the archive, even if there are a billion other copies they could take.  Thats the law and the point.  Otherwise any notes he writes on papers would be lost or could be... Well... Hidden.

Quote
Quote
some of the records Trump took from the White House were clearly marked as classified, some of them “top secret.”

The part they left out is that ex-presidents get to keep their security clearances and can even get CIA briefings

The current authority for former presidents to access CIA information is given as:

32 CFR § 1909.1 - Authority and purpose.

Quote
(b) Purpose. This part prescribes procedures for waiving the need-to-know requirement for access to classified information with respect to persons:

...

(3) Requesting access to classified CIA information as a former President or Vice President.

The Official Fahrenheit 9-11 Reader - https://books.google.com/books?id=-kmqVwE8x1YC&lpg=PT61&ots=VA9eweSoSD&pg=PT61#v=onepage&q&f=false



https://www.newsweek.com/trump-calls-claims-he-wanted-cut-obama-intelligence-briefings-fake-news-1082650

Quote
Why do former presidents and officials continue to receive intelligence?

In addition to meeting with foreign leaders, former presidents and intelligence officials are expected to receive intelligence briefings for a number of other reasons.

One of the most obvious reasons is so that they can continue to advise the sitting administration and officials on incidents that may either be ongoing or reflect those of the past.

"Having former senior officials hold active security clearances can be critically important for those currently charged with defending our nation," Jamil N. Jaffer, who was associate counsel to President George W. Bush and founder of George Mason University's National Security Institute, told The Washington Post in a recent interview.

"It allows them to turn rapidly to people with significant experience, context and contacts to help interpret the activity of our opponents and to provide wise counsel and guidance, whether that's in the terrorism, foreign policy or any national security context," he said.

The bolded suggests that they get to keep holding security clearances.

Yes.
This does not mean he can keep documents he's not supposed to have.  What, do you think it works like the movies where his clearance means he can walk in, ask for the current military plans, and get it? 
There is a very long list of approvals.  Having the right security clearance just means that you could read it if you need to.  And if the chain of approvals agree that you having it is a benefit for the nation.  Ie. CIA briefings.  The idea being your experience may be needed in the future.  Like "shit, cuba is going crazy... Bush, can you provide insight on this from when you were president?"
But keeping documents that aren't needed and shouldn't have been removed from the White House?  Yeah... No excuse. 
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #9415 on: February 11, 2022, 12:25:37 PM »
Trump was so bad for tearing up documents he wasn’t supposed to that there were staff who spent a good portion of 4 years taping them back together for the archive.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9416 on: February 11, 2022, 02:59:42 PM »
I'm more inclined to believe that the reporters are retarts or are being deceptive. The Wapo article implies that he wasn't supposed to have classified documents and then contradicts itself and admits that it is possible for ex-presidents to hold on to classified documents:

https://archive.is/Af0Vf

"Former presidents do sometimes receive and hold on to classified information, according to people familiar with presidential records. For example, former presidents might receive classified briefing documents in advance of a meeting with a foreign leader. But they are supposed to carefully safeguard such documents, keeping them in a safe or other secure facility."

Then elsewhere in the article it said the documents at Mar-a-Lago were being stored in a SCIF:

"The files were being stored in a sensitive compartmented information facility, also known as an SCIF"

And actually the full sentence deceptively implied that the Justice Dept went there and moved the files:

"The files were being stored in a sensitive compartmented information facility, also known as an SCIF, while Justice Department officials debated how to proceed, the two people familiar with the matter said."

But the rest of the article doesn't actually state that they went to Mar-a-Lago and removed files. There is a SCIF at Mar-a-Lago where the files were probably always stored. This is likely a carefully crafted deceptive comment like the implication that Trump wasn't supposed to have classified documents.

More about the SCIF there:

https://darylweston.medium.com/mar-a-lago-the-winter-white-house-c20c23a25bc2

"The White House spokesman Sean Spicer told reporters that Trump was briefed at his Mar-a-Lago property in his words, “There is a SCIF there. It was utilised on two occasions that evening to convey to the president by his national security team the situation in North Korea,” Spicer said. You may be wondering, what is a SCIF?"
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 03:51:38 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9417 on: February 11, 2022, 03:54:21 PM »
I'm more inclined to believe that the reporters are retarts or are being deceptive. The Wapo article implies that he wasn't supposed to have classified documents and then contradicts itself and admits that it is possible for ex-presidents to hold on to classified documents:

https://archive.is/Af0Vf

"Former presidents do sometimes receive and hold on to classified information, according to people familiar with presidential records. For example, former presidents might receive classified briefing documents in advance of a meeting with a foreign leader. But they are supposed to carefully safeguard such documents, keeping them in a safe or other secure facility."

Then elsewhere in the article it said the documents at Mar-a-Lago were being stored in a SCIF:

"The files were being stored in a sensitive compartmented information facility, also known as an SCIF"

And actually the full sentence deceptively implied that the Justice Dept went there and moved the files:

"The files were being stored in a sensitive compartmented information facility, also known as an SCIF, while Justice Department officials debated how to proceed, the two people familiar with the matter said."

But the rest of the article doesn't actually state that they went to Mar-a-Lago and removed files. There is a SCIF at Mar-a-Lago where the files were probably always stored. This is likely a carefully crafted deceptive comment like the implication that Trump wasn't supposed to have classified documents.

More about the SCIF there:

https://darylweston.medium.com/mar-a-lago-the-winter-white-house-c20c23a25bc2

"The White House spokesman Sean Spicer told reporters that Trump was briefed at his Mar-a-Lago property in his words, “There is a SCIF there. It was utilised on two occasions that evening to convey to the president by his national security team the situation in North Korea,” Spicer said. You may be wondering, what is a SCIF?"


Nothing you posted was relevant. 

Your defense have been:

1. Nancy Pelosi did it so its ok.
2. He has clearance so its ok.
3. He can keep them in a secure room so its ok.

None of these three point are relevant.  The National Archives wanted those files.  Which means Trump was not allowed to keep them.  His clearance level or storage security is irrelevant.  If the US government says "you can't have these" then you can't have them.  Period.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9418 on: February 11, 2022, 04:44:42 PM »
There is considerable anecdotal coverage at the moment to Trump ripping up documents and flushing them down the toilets.

Someone has pointed out that the Whitehouse has almost 30 fireplaces...   
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Re: Trump
« Reply #9419 on: February 12, 2022, 06:41:24 AM »
Then elsewhere in the article it said the documents at Mar-a-Lago were being stored in a SCIF:

"The files were being stored in a sensitive compartmented information facility, also known as an SCIF"

And actually the full sentence deceptively implied that the Justice Dept went there and moved the files:

"The files were being stored in a sensitive compartmented information facility, also known as an SCIF, while Justice Department officials debated how to proceed, the two people familiar with the matter said."

But the rest of the article doesn't actually state that they went to Mar-a-Lago and removed files. There is a SCIF at Mar-a-Lago where the files were probably always stored. This is likely a carefully crafted deceptive comment like the implication that Trump wasn't supposed to have classified documents.

This is all wrong. Everything you've said is wrong. No, the article is not saying that the documents were stored in a SCIF in Mar-a-Lago. It's saying that they were stored in a SCIF while Justice Department officials debated how to proceed, meaning that after - not during, but after - the time they were in Trump's possession, they were placed in a SCIF, hence them being there while Justice Department officials debated how to proceed. They wouldn't have been debating how to proceed before they even had possession of the documents, after all. That wouldn't make any sense. There's nothing about the article's phrasing deceptively implying that the Department of Justice were the ones who moved the documents, because the article makes it clear that it was the National Archives that did it:

Quote
The Post later reported that officials had recovered 15 boxes of presidential records from Mar-a-Lago, and that they suspected Trump had possibly violated laws concerning the handling of government documents — including those that might be considered classified.

This links to another article entitled "National Archives had to retrieve Trump White House records from Mar-a-Lago", which the Archives have confirmed as having happened. So your argument relies on pretending that an event already firmly established as having happened hadn't really happened, and taking it for granted that a slight ambiguity of wording means the exact opposite of what the article is claiming happened. The latter point could theoretically be true, I'll admit. It's possible that Trump could have been keeping the documents in Mar-a-Lago in a SCIF and meticulously paying close attention to the legal requirements of proper document storage. But to just assume that's probably what happened, given the many, many stories over the course of Trump's presidency of his regular use of unsecured equipment and email servers, holding important discussions at public parties, whipping out classified information to brag to foreign nationals, and my personal favorite, that time he casually tweeted a surveillance photo of Iran, is insane. And to a degree, Trump's cavalier attitude towards national security and classified information was legally covered when he was the president, given how the president has ultimate authority over the classification of information. But he's not the president anymore, and he can't just do whatever he wants anymore either.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 02:59:11 PM by honk »
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