#### hai88

• 1
##### Flat Earth and Satellites
« on: September 01, 2015, 03:50:10 PM »
Hi!

Im new here, and I have a question. we all use GPS. we all know how it works. but as someone who knows satellites from little bit closer i know how their algorithms work. they move in a circular shape around a  ball, in general. How can one explain this, as a flat earth believer? how do satellites work according to this theory?
Thanks.

#### Rushy

• Planar Moderator
• 8722
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 12:56:57 AM »
Satellites don't exist, and instead many of the apparent displays of satellite technology are in fact just radio towers. Highly accurate navigation via radio was used far before the 'space age' called for satellites to create what is now called GPS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN

In fact, most cell phones state the obvious, that they use triangulation (and sometimes trilateration) based on cell tower range. That any of these supposed GPS or television systems require satellite uplinks is nonsense.

#### Rayzor

• 198
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 10:11:08 AM »
Satellites don't exist, and instead many of the apparent displays of satellite technology are in fact just radio towers. Highly accurate navigation via radio was used far before the 'space age' called for satellites to create what is now called GPS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN

In fact, most cell phones state the obvious, that they use triangulation (and sometimes trilateration) based on cell tower range. That any of these supposed GPS or television systems require satellite uplinks is nonsense.

Did you know that the actual satellite position in real time  is part of the signal transmitted from the satellite,  so we can say with 100% confidence that the satellites are in orbit 12,500 miles up.    If the position were faked, then the receiver position calculation would be wrong.  Since I know where I am, and I can see the position of the satellite in the data stream,  I know the calculation is correct.

Does this mean the earth is not flat?  Yes, it means that flat earth theory is in conflict with reality.   So make your own reality if you must.

#### jroa

• 3094
• Kentucky Gentleman
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 02:05:53 PM »
A transmission tower can transmit any data that it is programmed to, and your GPS receiver can interpret that however the designers want it to.  Sorry, Rayzon, the data that is transmitted in the signal does not prove where the signal came from, it only tells us what the designer wanted it to tell us.

#### Pete Svarrior

• e
• Planar Moderator
• 16209
• (◕˽ ◕ ✿)
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2015, 03:07:52 PM »
I will happily design, for a small fee, a system for you that sends you the position of a hypothetical satellite based on a simple time calculation. It's a trivial task to anyone with a basic understanding of programming.

The fact that a piece of hardware does what it's been programmed to do doesn't prove much about the Earth's shape.

If we are not speculating then we must assume

#### markjo

• 7850
• Zetetic Council runner-up
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2015, 04:21:49 PM »
A transmission tower can transmit any data that it is programmed to, and your GPS receiver can interpret that however the designers want it to.  Sorry, Rayzon, the data that is transmitted in the signal does not prove where the signal came from, it only tells us what the designer wanted it to tell us.
Can a transmission tower broadcast a GPS signal with a Doppler shift?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 04:24:21 PM by markjo »
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#### jroa

• 3094
• Kentucky Gentleman
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2015, 04:33:00 PM »
A transmission tower can transmit any data that it is programmed to, and your GPS receiver can interpret that however the designers want it to.  Sorry, Rayzon, the data that is transmitted in the signal does not prove where the signal came from, it only tells us what the designer wanted it to tell us.
Can a transmission tower broadcast a GPS signal with a Doppler shift?

lol, markjo.  You think that a slight change in frequency proves that a transmitter is moving.  Do you need another coloring book?

#### geckothegeek

##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2015, 04:38:51 PM »
A transmission tower can transmit any data that it is programmed to, and your GPS receiver can interpret that however the designers want it to.  Sorry, Rayzon, the data that is transmitted in the signal does not prove where the signal came from, it only tells us what the designer wanted it to tell us.
Can a transmission tower broadcast a GPS signal with a Doppler shift?

There is also the question that the GPS can report altitude. The old FE denial of reality.

Yes.The GPS receiver has been programmed by those satanists to make me just THINK that  my GPS is showing me how many satellites that I THINK I am receiving.
I have an old Netropa Intellinav2. It is cleverly programmed to show me that I THINK that I am usually getting 8 out of 12 satellites. And it is cleverly programmed to make me THINK that it is showing me my exact location.

Those satanists are very clever and devious. LOL.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 05:23:09 PM by geckothegeek »

#### geckothegeek

##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2015, 04:46:18 PM »
A transmission tower can transmit any data that it is programmed to, and your GPS receiver can interpret that however the designers want it to.  Sorry, Rayzon, the data that is transmitted in the signal does not prove where the signal came from, it only tells us what the designer wanted it to tell us.
Can a transmission tower broadcast a GPS signal with a Doppler shift?

lol, markjo.  You think that a slight change in frequency proves that a transmitter is moving.  Do you need another coloring book?

C'mon jroa !!! Surely you understand the Doppler shift theory ? Even the "Moon Bounce"  ham radio operators have noted this slight change in frequency due  to  the movement of the moon.

Haven't you ever noticed this on a train at a railroad crossing ? The shift in frequency of the train whistle  certainly proves that the train is moving. LOL.

#### markjo

• 7850
• Zetetic Council runner-up
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2015, 04:58:24 PM »
A transmission tower can transmit any data that it is programmed to, and your GPS receiver can interpret that however the designers want it to.  Sorry, Rayzon, the data that is transmitted in the signal does not prove where the signal came from, it only tells us what the designer wanted it to tell us.
Can a transmission tower broadcast a GPS signal with a Doppler shift?

lol, markjo.  You think that a slight change in frequency proves that a transmitter is moving.  Do you need another coloring book?
I see that you're falling back to your "if you can't beat them, then ridicule them" technique.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#### jroa

• 3094
• Kentucky Gentleman
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2015, 06:08:56 PM »
A transmission tower can transmit any data that it is programmed to, and your GPS receiver can interpret that however the designers want it to.  Sorry, Rayzon, the data that is transmitted in the signal does not prove where the signal came from, it only tells us what the designer wanted it to tell us.
Can a transmission tower broadcast a GPS signal with a Doppler shift?

lol, markjo.  You think that a slight change in frequency proves that a transmitter is moving.  Do you need another coloring book?
I see that you're falling back to your "if you can't beat them, then ridicule them" technique.

I see that you're falling back on your "shitting up threads" technique.

#### geckothegeek

##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2015, 06:45:04 PM »
We are well of your techniques, jroa.

Here is something else you can do.  I know you are a law abiding citizen, but do this.
Find some place where you know that there are places where some law officer is using some type of a radar type device involving doppler principles to check for speeders. Drive past there at some speed over the speed limit. When you are stopped and the officer begins to write out a ticket , tell him. "Officer if that device you are using operates on a doppler principle there is no way you could tell if I was speeding or even what speed I was traveling so I am innocent and you can not issue me a ticket for speeding."

Please report back with the report of this incident.

#### jroa

• 3094
• Kentucky Gentleman
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2015, 07:08:48 PM »
Reprted to the FBI for telling people to break the law.  Expect a knock at your door at any moment.

#### Rayzor

• 198
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2015, 09:10:49 AM »
I will happily design, for a small fee, a system for you that sends you the position of a hypothetical satellite based on a simple time calculation. It's a trivial task to anyone with a basic understanding of programming.

The fact that a piece of hardware does what it's been programmed to do doesn't prove much about the Earth's shape.

Only problem with that idea is that it won't work.

Let's for the sake of argument that a ground based GPS tower is pretending to be a satellite in orbit,  first the position being transmitted will be continuously changing, and the ranging information from the time sequence will need to be changing as well.   I can't see that this would be a difficult task,  the problem is that the receivers in the transmitter coverage area will not be able to get a correct location fix,  since the transmitter itself isn't actually moving, and the ranging sequences can't be simulated for multiple gps receivers at the same time.

The way the GPS system works,  requires the transmitters to be exactly where they say they are.  If they aren't then the receivers can't fix their location correctly.   It's worth noting that they don't actually have to be in orbit, but they do have to transmit their real location.  You could have your own local GPS system with a transmitter up in a tree in your backyard,  and another in your back pocket.   It will work just fine, so long as the positional information being sent is true.

The actual transmitter locations can be determined by looking at the raw data stream,  when you do this you will find that they are in fact in orbit where they are supposed to be.

If someone wants to get into building their own GPS receiver and verifying what I'm saying, I'd be happy to help if I can,  It's not that hard, or you could purchase a suitable receiver chipset that provides access to the raw data.   This one is NEO-6T based for \$49.99 and does cm precision and can use the open source RTKlib,  so you can look at GNSS raw data, and verify the position calculations that show the earth is a globe if that's your thing.  If it's not then cm level gps accuracy is still nice to have.

Happy GPS transmitter hunting.

#### wclubin

• 16
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2015, 11:00:40 AM »
Why do satellites and the flat earth have to mutually exclusive? It is possible that "they" just put them onto the "skyhook" and the satellites go round and round in circles above the flat disk. I am not saying this is what I believe, only that it is possible.

The point is that we should be concentrating on if the earth is round or flat by doing experiments. When someone comes along and says the earth is round because satellites exist, this is just a distraction because in actuality they are engaging in a different argument, namely, do satellites work the way we are told they work, and so they need to take it to a different forum.

Thank you

#### Rayzor

• 198
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2015, 11:18:10 AM »
Why do satellites and the flat earth have to mutually exclusive? It is possible that "they" just put them onto the "skyhook" and the satellites go round and round in circles above the flat disk. I am not saying this is what I believe, only that it is possible.

The point is that we should be concentrating on if the earth is round or flat by doing experiments. When someone comes along and says the earth is round because satellites exist, this is just a distraction because in actuality they are engaging in a different argument, namely, do satellites work the way we are told they work, and so they need to take it to a different forum.

Thank you

This is the deal breaker for flat earth.

Maybe I should have added the clarification that GPS calculations are based on the fact that the earth is in fact round,   the calculation of altitude above sea level is a bit more complex,  the World Geodetic System,  used is WGS-84,  and because the earth is not exactly spherical,  but flattened a little at the poles, the altitude calculation takes this into account.

GPS wouldn't work on a flat earth.   ( Well,  almost,  a re-designed GPS system could be made to work, but the maths would be different to what's actually used)

GPS works because the satellites are in fact in orbit, and the earth is round.  Sorry for the conspiracy theorists  but you can't help bad luck.

#### huh?

• 131
##### Re: Flat Earth and Satellites
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2015, 03:31:19 PM »
Why do satellites and the flat earth have to mutually exclusive? It is possible that "they" just put them onto the "skyhook" and the satellites go round and round in circles above the flat disk. I am not saying this is what I believe, only that it is possible.

The point is that we should be concentrating on if the earth is round or flat by doing experiments. When someone comes along and says the earth is round because satellites exist, this is just a distraction because in actuality they are engaging in a different argument, namely, do satellites work the way we are told they work, and so they need to take it to a different forum.

Thank you

I suppose that is "as possible" as a sun that is going around a "skyhook"
Although both are magical and neither match observation.

Many experiments for determining the shape of the Earth involve observing celestial objects. (satellites included)

If we can easily observe that the sun does not travel in a circular path above a stationary point on Earth (north pole) then there is no good in keeping that model.

In order to be convincing a model or theory would need to match observation.

Frankly it would be better for FE theory to simply ignore any observation and not do experiments because those things can only lead to disproving the theory.

Much better to simply say the Earth is flat because that is what FE believers feel comfortable with and not muddy science in an effort to justify that belief.