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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2022, 11:04:54 AM »
I'd like to join in, but there seems to be a lack of available flights at the moment due to .. you know .. the pandemic and such.

I spent some time on it, but gave up. Sorry.

Try searching for April/May flights

What are we looking for exactly? Non-stop flights?

If so, in the meantime, I couldn't find any non-stops for the cities you mentioned. But there's a non-stop from Sydney to Johannesburg:



Perth (Australia) <--------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)


Investigation:
Now let’s see which way the fastest available commercial flight route takes us…

1.


2.


3.


4. Plotting on our maps:
PER Perth --> DOH Hamad International --> GRU Sao Paulo --> AEP Buenos Aires


Auckland (New Zealand) <------> Cape town (Africa)


Investigation:
Now let’s see which way the fastest available commercial flight route takes us…

1.


2.


3.


4. Plotting on our maps:
AKL Auckland --> SYD Sydney --> SIN Singapore --> JNB Johannesburg --> CPT Cape Town


But don’t take my word for it.. try it yourself. You’ll actually find some flight paths that seem to go right over the North pole on a flat earth map..
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 11:25:50 AM by PraiseGOD »
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Offline Gonzo

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2022, 11:22:26 AM »
Hang on, you want us to use Auckland to Cape Town, which, on your itinerary, includes a Sydney to Jo’burg (over two legs) journey, but not Sydney to Jo’burg itself, which actually has direct flights?

Any reason why?

Please do some reading on airline hub-and-spoke operations.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 11:25:19 AM by Gonzo »

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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2022, 11:32:16 AM »
Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa)


Filter for "fastest". Now click on any of the first few and plot the flight path on a globe earth and then on a flat earth map. Report back with results.
As others have mentioned, why are you cherry picking those particular routes?
The lack of a direct flight between 2 cities is evidence of nothing more than a lack of demand for one.
Where there is a direct flight the route can be used to investigate claims about the shape of the earth.
Where there isn't it doesn't tell you anything of much use other than how airlines operate and where their hubs are.

Cherry picking? Find me 2 airports on a flat earth map that are further away from each other than the ones I chose.

By contrast this also means that the two routes I chose are very close together on a round earth map at the southern hemisphere. The fastest commercial route offered allows us to see whether we live on a round or flat earth.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 11:48:12 AM by PraiseGOD »
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2022, 11:45:28 AM »
Cherry picking? Find me 2 airports on a flat earth map that are further away from each other than the ones I chose.

Santiago and Sydney are pretty much opposite sides. Pre pandemic there was a direct flight between them, here's a review of it:

Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2022, 12:27:09 PM »
Cherry picking? Find me 2 airports on a flat earth map that are further away from each other than the ones I chose.

Santiago and Sydney are pretty much opposite sides. Pre pandemic there was a direct flight between them, here's a review of it:



I want you to entertain in your mind for a minute what it would be like if the world was flat and government authorities (and higher powers) were trying to hide this fact. How easily could they pay a youtuber like that guy to film a staged video?

I want you to find me an actual one way flight that I can book in myself. Surely you can find a direct flight this year. Let's leave Putin and Covid out of it.

Perth (Australia) ---------> Buenos Aires (Argentina)

Auckland (New Zealand) ---------> Cape town (Africa)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 12:34:58 PM by PraiseGOD »
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2022, 12:56:21 PM »
New question.. Why are there never any planes in the Southern Hemisphere on flight radar?



Let me guess.. Covid or Putin.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Gonzo

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2022, 01:58:04 PM »
New question.. Why are there never any planes in the Southern Hemisphere on flight radar?



Let me guess.. Covid or Putin.

Many reasons.

As has been said, the vast majority of people are in the Northern hemisphere.
Also, there are more population centres further to the north (in the N hemisphere) than they are to the south (in the S hemisphere).

You just have to look at your screenshot of FR24…. Look at the location of the equator, then look at the amount of land mass above that dotted line and compare it to the land mass below the line.

But given all of that, the effect of Covid is significant. It’s impact on countries such as S Africa, New Zealand and Australia over the past few years, aviation is nowhere near what it was in 2019 when there were more direct flights between S hemisphere cities than there are now. Think about where the flights you think should be in the areas of your question marks would be flying to and from. S. America and Australia/NZ, Aus/NZ and S Africa, S. Africa and S America.

I work at London Heathrow airport, before Covid there were around 30 flights a day (so maybe 6000 passenger seats per day) to New York, because London and New York are incredibly important global cities with many business links and high travel demand.

I don’t think one can compare that city pair to Perth and Buenos Aires.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 02:01:13 PM by Gonzo »

Offline Gonzo

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2022, 02:02:09 PM »
New question.. Why are there never any planes in the Southern Hemisphere on flight radar?



Let me guess.. Covid or Putin.

Many reasons.

As has been said, the vast majority of people are in the Northern hemisphere.
Also, there are more population centres further to the north (in the N hemisphere) than they are to the south (in the S hemisphere).

You just have to look at your screenshot of FR24…. Look at the location of the equator, then look at the amount of populated land mass above that dotted line and compare it to the populated land mass below the line.

But given all of that, the effect of Covid is significant. It’s impact on countries such as S Africa, New Zealand and Australia over the past few years, aviation is nowhere near what it was in 2019 when there were more direct flights between S hemisphere cities than there are now. Think about where the flights you think should be in the areas of your question marks would be flying to and from. S. America and Australia/NZ, Aus/NZ and S Africa, S. Africa and S America.

I work at London Heathrow airport, before Covid there were around 30 flights a day (so maybe 6000 passenger seats per day) to New York, because London and New York are incredibly important global cities with many business links and high travel demand.

I don’t think one can compare that city pair to Perth and Buenos Aires.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2022, 02:09:43 PM »
New question.. Why are there never any planes in the Southern Hemisphere on flight radar?

"Flightradar24 relies on volunteers around the world for the majority of our coverage." (https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works#:~:text=Flightradar24%20combines%20data%20from%20several,com%20and%20in%20Flightradar24%20apps.)

"You can help us increase the flight tracking coverage in your area. You can build your own receiver, or even apply to host a receiver that Flightradar24 provides for free." (https://www.flightradar24.com/add-coverage)

There's less land mass in the Southern Hemisphere, so fewer places where people can host receivers.



=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline jomples

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2022, 02:25:37 PM »
You've yet to address any of my responses, by the way- especially the route that I planned that, I don't know, does actually take you much more directly. Airplanes aren't like cars- a flight will only be scheduled where it makes sense. An airline will always plan the routes which make it the most money, and that doesn't include a direct long-haul flight between two non-hub airports. I understand that these routes look a bit wacky, but that makes sense when you take into account the actual logistics of airline operation.

But there are plenty of other direct routes in the southern hemisphere. Here are the largest ones I found, using https://www.flightconnections.com/airlines.

Sydney to Johannesberg- currently in operation
Sydney to Santiago- last flown in 2020
Auckland to Santiago- currently in operation
Perth to Mauritius- last flown in 2020

Notice anything? Half of these flights stopped due to Covid. The entire airline industry, in fact, has been shifting, because airlines figured out that operating super long flights that weren't between hubs made no since. Like AATW said, 90% of people live in the northern hemisphere. Additionally, only 33% of the world's land is in the southern hemisphere, and a third of that is Antarctica. It makes more sense to route people through routes that are traveled more often, barring a few cases.

Even shorter flights are still wildly different.
Melbourne to Perth is a 4 hour flight, and on a globe Earth model it's a 1,677 mile flight. Including a half hour of taxi and hold time, and you get 1,677 miles in 3 hours and 30 minutes, which works out to about 480 mph, or a perfectly reasonable airline cruising speed.

On a flat earth it's 4,300 miles. 4,300 miles in 3 hours and 30 minutes works out to 1,228 mph, or mach 1.6.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to Melbourne. I've always wanted to fly on a Concorde.


(Addition- new replies came while I was typing- the two direct flights that I mentioned which are still running operate one a day or less, so it's relatively rare to have a plane in that section of the Pacific)

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Offline jomples

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2022, 02:27:53 PM »
New question.. Why are there never any planes in the Southern Hemisphere on flight radar?

"Flightradar24 relies on volunteers around the world for the majority of our coverage." (https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works#:~:text=Flightradar24%20combines%20data%20from%20several,com%20and%20in%20Flightradar24%20apps.)

"You can help us increase the flight tracking coverage in your area. You can build your own receiver, or even apply to host a receiver that Flightradar24 provides for free." (https://www.flightradar24.com/add-coverage)

There's less land mass in the Southern Hemisphere, so fewer places where people can host receivers.




I will mention, transponder data for flights is fairly publicly available. There are just fewer direct flights in the Southern hemisphere- less landmass and people.

Online SteelyBob

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2022, 05:57:02 PM »
Cherry picking? Find me 2 airports on a flat earth map that are further away from each other than the ones I chose.

Santiago and Sydney are pretty much opposite sides. Pre pandemic there was a direct flight between them, here's a review of it:



I want you to entertain in your mind for a minute what it would be like if the world was flat and government authorities (and higher powers) were trying to hide this fact. How easily could they pay a youtuber like that guy to film a staged video?

A video of a flight from Santiago to Sydney taken by a flat earther, wielding a compass he clearly doesn't understand, is linked to in the wiki as evidence of the earth being flat.

Quote

Quote
https://wiki.tfes.org/Flight_Anomalies

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Offline stack

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2022, 06:31:53 PM »
Cherry picking? Find me 2 airports on a flat earth map that are further away from each other than the ones I chose.

Current record holder for longest non-stop flight - SIN to JFK, 18 hours, 15,300km



Wrong route, doesn't match reality:


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Offline stack

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2022, 06:37:05 PM »
New question.. Why are there never any planes in the Southern Hemisphere on flight radar?

As AATW pointed out, "As of 2015, the Northern Hemisphere is home to approximately 6.4 billion people which is around 87.0% of the earth's total human population of 7.3 billion people.[8][9][10]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Hemisphere

Do the airline economics.

Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2022, 07:24:57 PM »
A video of a flight from Santiago to Sydney taken by a flat earther, wielding a compass he clearly doesn't understand, is linked to in the wiki as evidence of the earth being flat.
Ha. Nice.
It is interesting how this conversation has gone. It starts with a FE person demanding we look in to flight routes between two pairs of specific cities. When it’s patiently explained that there aren’t direct flights between any two arbitrary cities because of demand and hub-spoke models the FE person says he picked those pairs of cities because of the distance. He then challenges us to find a pair of cities further apart and when that’s done and a video review of someone taking that flight is provided it’s simply implied that could be fake. The logic contradictions and goalpost shifting are bewildering
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2022, 07:50:51 PM »
Again, as others have mentioned, airlines are only going to provide direct services if there is sufficient demand, hence, you want to go from Perth to Buenos Aires you'll probably have to take a route from Perth to the middle east (which is a popular route), then on to BA (another popular route).  Its like I can't get a bus from Town A to Town B; I have to get a bus from Town A to City C, then another bus from City C to Town B. 

However (and its a big however), take a look at this:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-repatriation-flight-lands-in-history-books/#:~:text=A%20record%20breaking%20repatriation%20flight,25%20minutes%20in%20the%20air.

Whilst Covid was most rampant, the Australian government was going to great lengths to repatriate its citizens who were stranded abroad.  One such group of 107 Australian citizens was identified in-and-around Buenos Aires, so the government chartered Qantas to pick them up and bring them home.  They sent one of their 787 Dreamliners.  It flew as QF14 in October 2021 and took around 17hrs 25min.  The flight was complicated in some respects because it could not land at the nearest Australian airport; it had to fly direct to Darwin, which is the location of Australia's immigration and isolation unit, a distance of 15000km.  Because of the relatively low pax load they could carry maximum fuel, so did it non-stop. 

You can see that the flight went south from BA, across part of Antarctica, and north to Darwin, just like the theoretical Great Circle.  It should also be fairly apparent from the chart that, if the destination had been Perth, it would have been a similar distance/time. 



Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2022, 08:03:54 PM »
Hand-held compasses don't work in an aircraft; the fuselage is a big faraday cage, only with added RF electromagnetic interference.   An aircraft's compass-detector is located remotely on a wingtip or in the tail.  We aren't even allowed to use ferrous screws in the mountings.  They are so sensitive that when we set them up (a "compass swing"), the operator has to divest himself of all metalwork like phone, watch, jewellery.   

Some aircraft still have a standby compass mounted in the cockpit for emergency use, but it is calibrated to only be accurate with basic essential electrical systems operating.  Switching on windshield deice, for instance, will typically introduce a 50 degree error.

Online SteelyBob

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2022, 08:52:17 PM »
Hand-held compasses don't work in an aircraft; the fuselage is a big faraday cage, only with added RF electromagnetic interference.   An aircraft's compass-detector is located remotely on a wingtip or in the tail.  We aren't even allowed to use ferrous screws in the mountings.  They are so sensitive that when we set them up (a "compass swing"), the operator has to divest himself of all metalwork like phone, watch, jewellery.   

Some aircraft still have a standby compass mounted in the cockpit for emergency use, but it is calibrated to only be accurate with basic essential electrical systems operating.  Switching on windshield deice, for instance, will typically introduce a 50 degree error.

I had a fairly lengthy and entirely predictable discussion with TB about that very topic in another thread. I see two possibilities: either the numerous sources of interference as you rightly describe (hence the need to ‘compass swing’ calibrate traditional compass systems) or, and i must admit this is my preferred option, the compass was working perfectly well and was indicating precisely what it should have done, given the massive discrepancy between true and mag in the area our intrepid flat earther was flying over! It is almost perfect - look it up.

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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: Investigating flight paths experiment for round earthers
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2022, 11:13:52 PM »
A video of a flight from Santiago to Sydney taken by a flat earther, wielding a compass he clearly doesn't understand, is linked to in the wiki as evidence of the earth being flat.
Ha. Nice.
It is interesting how this conversation has gone. It starts with a FE person demanding we look in to flight routes between two pairs of specific cities. When it’s patiently explained that there aren’t direct flights between any two arbitrary cities because of demand and hub-spoke models the FE person says he picked those pairs of cities because of the distance. He then challenges us to find a pair of cities further apart and when that’s done and a video review of someone taking that flight is provided it’s simply implied that could be fake. The logic contradictions and goalpost shifting are bewildering

I picked the two furthest flight routes on a Flat Earth map. But on a Globe Earth map they are quite short (12,000km and 12,500km). The fact that there are no direct flights is part of my point.

I then proved that even the shortest flights available travel the longest way possible on a Round Earth map and quite efficiently on a Flat Earth map.

The target has never moved. I asked you to find me a flight I can book.

If you can't understand what I have done then that's evidence that your faith in a round earth is grounded in nothing other than blind belief as you are unable to even conceptualise in your mind basic contrasts between how flight routes on a Flat Earth vs Round Earth should behave.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)