41

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Universal Zetetic Society - Scientific Accreditation?

« on: December 11, 2021, 11:03:15 PM »

The only
mention, by name, of anybody connected with it was Samuel Birley Rowbotham who was
merely a preacher, and who had no scientific qualifications, despite falsely styling himself
as Dr. Rowbotham.

False.

Rowbotham was a Dr twice over. He was a doctor in that he was a qualified physician ... and he was also a doctor in that he had a PhD from the University of Edinburgh for his work on the effects of Phosphorus on the human brain. From that he invented a soft drink that he called Dr Birley's Phosphorus Tonic which was a fore runner for Dr Pepper, (They ripped his recipe off after his death). He used the money from his sales of this tonic to found the society and died a very rich man indeed. I've done a large amount of research myself into where Rowbotham might have got the human brains he needed at Edinburgh University during that time, and they undoubtedly had to come from Burke and Hare.

But hey, believe the idle drivel that Christine Garwood wrote instead if you like. She's a terrible old hack that did very little research before writing her book. Consequently she gets most things wrong.

Thanks David.

I'd never heard of Christine Garwood, but apparently she has a B.A in history, and a Ph.D in the history of science, so I'd
assume she knows what she's talking about.  Why in particular do you say her writing is "idle drivel"?  In fact, the Sunday
Times reviewed her book "Flat Earth: The History of an Infamous Idea" as "Meticulously researched and compellingly readable".
I haven't yet read her book, but I assume you discredit her on the basis of disinformation, misrepresentation, or even blatant lies?

I also did some Googling regarding Samuel Rowbotham, and I couldn't find any confirmation of his alleged medical doctorate
from the University of Edinburgh.  I found several other Rowbothams by surname, but no Samuel B.  Nor could I find anything
about him even being an MD.  Could you give me a link that points to his medical qualifications please.

As an aside, I'm not sure exactly why you've mention Dr Pepper, the drink, as apparently it was invented in the 1880s by Texas
pharmacist Charles Alderton, and the name itself wasn't used until 1885.

I note that the image posted by Stack doesn't refer to Dr Rowbotham, but Dr Birley, which was his middle name.  Why is this?



At any rate, it's obvious that the good doctor had not the faintest notion of what actually caused cancer. He assumed it was
a "germ" that lowered the "nerve force"—by which I'm guessing he meant our immune system? 

Anyway, I compared Dr Birley's drink ingredients  with those of Dr Pepper, and found they're almost totally different:

Dr Pepper:
Carbonated Water, Sugar, Colour (Caramel), Phosphoric Acid, Potassium Sorbate, Flavourings, Caffeine, Aspartame, Acesulfame K, Phenylalanine.

Dr Birley:
Sugar, Tartaric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Alcohol, and plain water.

42

Flat Earth Theory / Universal Zetetic Society - Scientific Accreditation?

« on: December 10, 2021, 10:46:43 PM »

I've checked the Wiki, and couldn't find any mention of accredited scientists (of the era)
who were actually involved in the formation of and/or operations of the Society.  The only
mention, by name, of anybody connected with it was Samuel Birley Rowbotham who was
merely a preacher, and who had no scientific qualifications, despite falsely styling himself
as Dr. Rowbotham.

In fact, Rowbotham's original FE map from around 1860 still forms the basis of current FE
maps—with virtually no amendments since that time, despite massive advances in the
sciences, with a commensurate understanding of the Earth's exact geometry and its relation
to the sun and the rest of our solar system.



So my question is:  Apart from the dubious Rowbotham, what were the names of its other
board and/or governing members?  Likewise, who formed the board of its 1956 iteration, the 
International Flat Earth Research Society?  Were its founders, William Shenton and William
Mills technologists—of any profession.  Or just fanciful dreamers?

And why was the Universal Zetetic Society so shrouded in mystery?

43

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Apollo and Moon Orbits on FE

« on: December 10, 2021, 09:19:10 PM »

First they don't do construction in Antarctica so that was straight up fabrication.

Yes, they do a lot of site construction in Antarctica.  This is the Amundsen-Scott Research
Station, just metres from the actual South Pole:


And this is an American construction crew working on a wharf installation:

Also there may not be an ice all per se - just like a continent that is circular, enclosing our known world - cross over the continent and you come to the infinite ocean plane, and there may be other worlds out there like our own, tiling this ocean plane at odd intervals, to all infinity.

I notice that you use the word "may" a couple of times.  Do you have any empirical evidence
supporting these claims of infinite oceans and other worlds, or are you simply guessing?

We have not been "back" to the moon b/c that was an expensive scam to film, lol.

Yes we have been back to the moon; six times in fact.  12 men have walked on the lunar surface,
and six drove Lunar Roving Vehicles as part of the last three missions. Three men have been to
the Moon twice. Apollo 17 was the final manned landing in December 1972.

And only CIA / military etc. can get to Antarctica b/c they are in on the coverup.

Nope.  This notion is nothing more than a conspiracy theory maintained by some flat earthers.
Any private citizen can travel there by sea or air, land there and explore it themselves in guided
tours.

44

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Gravity experiment

« on: December 10, 2021, 08:44:08 PM »

Hypothesis: gravity exists, and we can show it interacting on objects by dropping an apple
experiment: we have 3 tests.

Mostly so far so good. What gravity is (that is hypothesized to exist) needs to be both rigorously defined and real to be part of a valid hypothesis (currently it is neither).

Nope, gravity has been defined:  gravity, also called gravitation, in mechanics, is the universal force of
attraction acting between all matter. Gravity is measured by the acceleration that it gives to freely falling
objects. At  the earth’s surface the acceleration of gravity is 9.8 metres/second/second. Thus, for every
second an object is in free fall, its speed increases by 9.8 metres/second.

Can you tell me what your definition of the gravitational force is please.

That is a simple observation, not in any way an experiment.

Another simple observation.

The basis of all scientific hypotheses and subsequent theories is, and always has
been, simple observations.

There is good reason to doubt the existence of gravitational lensing.  Perhaps the most obvious is its absolute lack of any experimental support of any kind.

What are some of those "good" reasons?  I note too that plenty of experiments have been
carried out confirming the phenomena of gravitational lensing.  EG: The Einstein 'cross' and Einstein 'ring'.

Unfortunately the vast majority of us never learn the correct definitions of scientific vernacular, and to make matters worse - the colloquial definitions that we learn and use are incorrect.

Thousands of scientists throughout the world do learn the technical intricacies of scientific
vernacular (as you term it).  That's why we listen to them, and rely on their expertise in their
fields; astrophysics, astronomy, cosmochemistry, mechanics, planetology, astrobiology etc.
Can you expand on what you mean exactly by "colloquial definitions" please.

45

Flat Earth Theory / Re: questions about day/night sky

« on: December 10, 2021, 07:37:02 PM »

The atmosphere doesn't really explain it. Here is St Louis at dusk, the sun has set over the horizon yet SLC is still in daylight and the sun can be seen above the horizon. And the sun is directly overhead some 6500 miles away toward the West, yet SLC residents can still see it. St Louis residents can't...

This is similar to my issue with the sun in Australia.  In Sydney (east coast) it's still broad daylight,
with the sun still well into the western sky.  But in Perth (west coast) it's dark, with none of the sun's
light being visible from the east.  According to FET, the sun is roughly 3,000 miles above Sydney,
whilst Perth is roughly 3,500 miles from the sun (using simple geometry) but apparently it's not
seen at all.   How does FET explain this obvious anomaly?

46

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?

« on: December 10, 2021, 07:26:03 PM »

It was (not is — Qantas has not operated that route in over a year) nowhere near close. At its southernmost point, it passed around 4000 km from the south pole.

As a matter of interest, QANTAS is currently flying from Australia to the South Pole;
31 December 2021, 09 January 2022, and 16 January 2022. They've been exploring
Antarctica by air since 1994, that's over 150 flights and 27 years.  And aboard these
chartered aircraft you'll experience unparalleled Antarctic viewing, with up to 4 hours
over the white continent. And with 19 different routes, no two flights are ever the same.

Prices start from AU$1199 if you're interested.  Personally, I can't afford it LOL.

47

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Quick question

« on: December 10, 2021, 06:52:41 PM »

If the Earth is flat, where does a compass point? Countless tests have proven that a compass is magnetic, so if the Earth is flat, why does it point to the magnetic north pole and not the center of the Earth, which is where all the magnetism of the Earth would go to if the Earth was flat.

Flat earth magnetic north points:



The "south" perimeter shown in light grey marks the purported "ice wall".

48

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Problems with the FE sun

« on: December 10, 2021, 06:44:46 PM »

I live in Melbourne, and I can be standing in full sunlight when I phone my friend
in Perth, who confirms it's totally dark there.  The distance from one city to the
other is 1,700 miles.  I don't understand why she can't see even a light glow from
the sun, looking east towards Melbourne. 

According to FET, the sun is 3,000 miles above the earth's surface.  Using simple
trigonometry, this means she's only around 3,500 miles from the sun in Perth.

Why then can she not see it?  How does that extra 500 miles block the sun's light
so completely?

I note that no other FE has attempted to explain this strange lighting anomaly. But I do
thank MetaTron for his explanation of the disparate global lighting effects caused by the
purported dome in its refraction of the sun's rays.  The first image looks at first glance to
be very convincing, but I'm not sure his replication of the sun's light (LED light source?)
or the "sun's" size versus the "earth's" size is anywhere accurate.

The angular width of the light source looks to be far too narrow; in fact it's working more
like an adjacent spotlight.

In actuality, whilst it's commonly thought that while half of the Earth is covered in darkness,
the other half is covered in sunlight, it's actually not true; the bending of the sunlight results
in the land covered by sunlight having greater area than the land covered by darkness.
And this is not accounted for in MetaTron's model—as it's totally out of proportion in comparison
to the real-world scenario.

49

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: China and ownership

« on: December 10, 2021, 05:53:41 PM »

How long do you expect to survive in a world where China owns not only the methods of production but also the means of supply and delivery?

You believe that this may occur soon why?

I know that China’s 14th five-year self-sufficiency plan that runs from 2021 through 2025 is underway,
but what does that mean in actual empirical terms?  When you look at the date, China imports crude
petroleum ($204b), integrated circuits ($123b), iron ore ($83.1b), petroleum gas ($47.8b), and cars ($43.1b),
importing mostly from South Korea ($136b), Japan ($128B), Australia ($111b), Germany ($107b), and
the United States ($103b).     And, maybe surprisingly, China imports six million tonnes of rice annually.

Are those needs gonna be gone in a mere 5 years, or 10 years, or even 25 years?

50

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: December 10, 2021, 05:41:03 PM »

Only two things will ever make US presidential elections "fair"  (inerrant, accurate, true, valid etc).
One is to disband the Electoral College in totality;  secondly limit the archaic filibuster procedure.

And in any true democracy, one person = one vote.  This simply doesn't occur in the US because of the EC.

51

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Eugenics

« on: December 10, 2021, 05:32:24 PM »

No, they are not 'incorrect' genes.  We are naturally aggressive creatures...

Apparently not, according to Princeton primatologist and biological anthropologist, professor Agustín Fuentes, writing in Psychology Today.

"There is no single thing or pattern that we can measure and label as 'aggression'. While we know that
certain parts of the brain (the prefrontal cortex, the amygdala, and the hypothalamus) interact with
certain neurotransmitters (serotonin, Monoamine oxidase A (MAOA)) and that a range of steroid hormones
(like testosterone and other androgens) work together to produce aggressive behavior, we also see that
there is no specific physiological or neurological system designed for aggression. Everything involved in
the expression of aggression is tied to other systems, and its use in behavior is highly contextual... There
is no consistent system or pattern in the human body or mind that we can point out as the seat or the main
actor in aggressive behavior."

52

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden

« on: December 10, 2021, 05:17:01 PM »

There is a virtually 0% chance that Trump wins ever again.

Maybe not.  In the US it's possible to run as a POTUS candidate from within jail.

53

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: dante's earth theory

« on: December 10, 2021, 05:13:38 PM »

It's completely wrong of course, but can be valued for its comedic effect I guess.
It's also more than obvious his skill lay in poetry rather than astrophysics LOL.

54

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Taliban Won

« on: December 10, 2021, 05:09:47 PM »

A distinction without a difference.

Yes.  Muslims and Christians both believe in the existence of supernatural entities
and paranormal phenomena.  Just different ones LOL.

55

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Democracy Is Overrated

« on: December 10, 2021, 05:06:11 PM »

Reaching the legal voting age is not really what anyone is talking about when they say “test” in the context of having educated voters.

Saddam said «any kind of "test"». Checking someone's age is a kind of test.

In Australia, there are no "tests" in the sense it's been used here, but there are nevertheless certain
conditions one has to satisfy in order to vote:

•  At least 18 years of age.
•  A registered home address.
•  An Australian citizen.
•  Name registered on the electoral roll.
•  A jail inmate of not more than two years duration.

56

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You

« on: December 10, 2021, 04:57:59 PM »

Honestly, with the new Omnicron variant, we probably will.
Because of people like Tom, this won't go away.  Ever.  So we'll need to keep getting booster shots for the newest strain.

Current clinical research seems to indicate that people who've had their first two vaccinations,
and who've also had their booster will have the same Omicron resistance as they do for Delta.

I only wish we plebs could get accurate information from the medical powers that be.  At the
moment, confusion reigns supreme.    

57

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You

« on: November 28, 2021, 04:11:25 PM »

...I am pointing out that many people thought that they would be fully vaxxed from their shots when in reality they would need to take boosters for the rest of their lives. We can see that you were likely one of these people, considering how triggered you were at that post.

I thought we only needed one booster after our "original" two shots?   Or possibly others if
or when Coronavirus mutated over time.  I haven't seen it reported that we'd need boosters
for the "rest of our lives".

Links please.

58

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Untrustworthy quotation in the wiki

« on: November 28, 2021, 04:02:28 PM »

LOL...

"52 Percent Of The British Public Think The Moon Landings Were Faked, Claims Survey".

The sample size was a mere 0.0015 percent of the UK population, which means it's statistically
impossible to extrapolate the figure of 52% to the entire British public.

Strangely, in surveys in the US, similar polls show that only about 5 or 6 percent of the public
subscribes to the moon-hoax theory, former NASA chief historian Roger D. Launius said in 2019.

59

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Will Inspiration4 convince Flat Earth believers?

« on: November 28, 2021, 03:30:07 PM »

Neither aircraft windows nor camera lenses "distort" the horizon line of the planet when
viewed from altitude. Even a wide angle lens will not cause distortion of a straight line if
the lens's longitudinal optical axis is centred exactly on that line or lines—either horizontal
or vertical.  Most of the people who talk about about purported lens distortion have little
concept of a lens optical properties.

60

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Problems with the FE sun

« on: November 28, 2021, 02:39:56 PM »

It can depend on which metal is used for the Faraday cage, and its thickness etc as far as its shielding properties go.