[xenotolerance]

In case anyone reading this thread doesn't know, people really do cross Antarctica on the regular. Last year saw a polar circumnavigation by airplane. It's been done before, on foot.

[Northman77]

Pete, you understand that Antarctica has been traversed many times now.
A circumnavigation of the globe has been done via both poles.

Those are some nice opinions you have there.

This got ignored in another thread, so I am giving it another go;

There has been several expeditions to Antartica as I am sure you know Pete, since you mention the research stations. Since Roald Amundsen was the first to reach the South Pole in 1914, Antartica has been crossed on foot, by planes and circumnavigated. No ice wall has hindered these expeditions, and Antartica is surrounded by sea on all sides. No ice wall extends from Antartica making it impossible to circumnavigate, and no "edge" has been found on either side of it.

In 2012 a Norwegian expedition followed Roald Amundsens route to the South Pole starting from Ross Barrier up the Axel Heiberg glacier. From the South Pole they went to Hercules Intlet. The went on foot the entire distance. They started by sea and reached the sea. No extended ice wall was observed, and no "edge" found.

In 2005/2006 Norwegian Rune Gjeldnes went by foot from the Novo Station in Queen Maud land via the South Pole to Terra Nova Bay. Sea at starting point, sea at end point. Again, no extended ice wall observed, and no "edge" found.

Links and references can be provided. Actually; I also have Rune Gjeldnes phone number if you would like debate his observational skills with him.

[Mr. Potatohead]

Hey, this thread is finally getting lots of posts! Anyway, in the original post, I wasn't asking about a wall but instead a ring of ice, and about the flights from Adelaide and Sydney to Beunos Aires over Antarctica not taking hundreds of thousands of kilometres longer with a flat Earth. So far, nothing has been proved by a FEer about the OP. I am asking to try and find out if you can explain distorted distances in the Southern Hemisphere, not whether the mythical ice wall has got flat parts to it. I do realise that my last post was completely irrelevant, so I do apologise for that. As for the no planes flying over the Antarctic Circle part, flights from Adelaide to Buenos Aires do fly over the fringes of Antarctica, which doesn't disprove an ice wall, but that is off topic anyway. Could you please try to keep the topic to the questions asked in the original post?

[AATW]

Pete, you understand that Antarctica has been traversed many times now.
A circumnavigation of the globe has been done via both poles.

Those are some nice opinions you have there.

They aren't opinions. There's a whole list of expeditions here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Antarctic_expeditions
A circumnavigation via both poles was first done in 1982
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/first-circumnavigation-via-both-poles-surface
There IS a base at the South Pole, there's a bunch of videos from it here:

And you can go there, if you have the money:
https://www.polar-quest.com/trips/antarctica/fly-to-the-south-pole
And 24 hour sun at the south pole has been documented


Claiming all this is lies or part of a hoax or conspiracy is not healthy scepticism, it's just denial.

[Pete Svarrior]

So, how have you established that these expeditions crossed the entirety of Antarctica, rather than, for example, simply following a compass?

You seem very intent on pretending that I'm proposing some sort of conspiracy or whatever. If that floats your boat, so be it, but then you're arguing against a straw man. Not very useful.

[AATW]

To be honest, I assumed that people who undertake these sorts of expeditions know what they're doing.
If they didn't they'd come back dead.
But there's some information here about how people navigate near the poles, there seem to be a few methods:

http://gurumagazine.org/askaguru/navigate-near-poles/
http://www.antarctica.gov.au/living-and-working/stations/mawson/this-week-at-mawson/2013/1-november-2013/2

I'm not intent on anything, to be honest you always post in such a vague way I struggle to make out what you actually do believe.
So these people who think they have traversed Antarctica, what do you think is really happening if it is not going across a continent?
And how does the 24 hours Antarctic sun work in your model? The Arctic would work if that is in the middle of the plane, but if Antarctica is a ring around the edge then it would still experience night and day, no?

[Westprog]

And how does the 24 hours Antarctic sun work in your model? The Arctic would work if that is in the middle of the plane, but if Antarctica is a ring around the edge then it would still experience night and day, no?

I think that the 24 hour sun at various points on the ice wall can be very easily explained by the multi-sun model, which is based on truly excellent science and reasoning.

[Tumeni]

So, how have you established that these expeditions crossed the entirety of Antarctica, rather than, for example, simply following a compass?

How would I establish that I travelled between (say) Glasgow and Edinburgh, or did I simply follow a compass?

I can't fathom the logic of your question. Does following a compass imply that a traveller does not go where he says or thinks he has gone? 

[totallackey]

Your close family lied to you and you are perpetuating that lie here on a forum.

There are no commercial flights that take place within the Antarctic Circle.

There are no commercial flights that fly within a few thousand miles of the Ice Wall.

Dude.
You can literally go there. To the actual South Pole. It's very expensive, because it's niche, to say the least, but there are companies who will take you there.

https://www.polar-quest.com/trips/antarctica/fly-to-the-south-pole

Shouting "fake" and "lies" at everything which doesn't match your world view is not being a skeptic, it's just denial.

Listen, this is certainly not a case of shouting "fake and lies."

The OP made a statement (people on flights from Australia to South America can see Antarctica) that was patently untrue.

How about addressing that bald faced lie and then get back to me about what in particular was incorrect about my post.

Which, by the way, was NOTHING!

[totallackey]

In case anyone reading this thread doesn't know, people really do cross Antarctica on the regular. Last year saw a polar circumnavigation by airplane. It's been done before, on foot.

Wrong on both counts.

For one, the requirements for "polar circumnavigation," do not even require flying over a pole.

It simply requires a waypoint certified to be N and S of 75 degrees respectively.

[totallackey]

Hey, this thread is finally getting lots of posts! Anyway, in the original post, I wasn't asking about a wall but instead a ring of ice, and about the flights from Adelaide and Sydney to Beunos Aires over Antarctica not taking hundreds of thousands of kilometres longer with a flat Earth. So far, nothing has been proved by a FEer about the OP. I am asking to try and find out if you can explain distorted distances in the Southern Hemisphere, not whether the mythical ice wall has got flat parts to it. I do realise that my last post was completely irrelevant, so I do apologise for that. As for the no planes flying over the Antarctic Circle part, flights from Adelaide to Buenos Aires do fly over the fringes of Antarctica, which doesn't disprove an ice wall, but that is off topic anyway. Could you please try to keep the topic to the questions asked in the original post?

If you can stick to the same.

All of your writing in the OP is up for grabs and on topic.

Again, your contention any southern commercial flights, like Adelaide to Buenos Aires, fly over Antarctica, is false. Commercial flights DO NOT infringe on Antarctic airspace.

That is a bunch of bull cookies and whoever told you that deserves to be severely beaten.

[Northman77]

So, how have you established that these expeditions crossed the entirety of Antarctica, rather than, for example, simply following a compass?

You seem very intent on pretending that I'm proposing some sort of conspiracy or whatever. If that floats your boat, so be it, but then you're arguing against a straw man. Not very useful.

Visit this webpage https://gjeldnes.com/the-longest-march/ and you can read all about it. With a bare minimum of effort you will find plenty of documentation of other expeditions crossing over other parts. There is really nothing more to explore in Antartica.

[TomInAustin]

Pete, you understand that Antarctica has been traversed many times now.
A circumnavigation of the globe has been done via both poles.

Those are some nice opinions you have there.

Pete, you're better than that.   I have rarely seen you fall into the "did not did not" method of argument.

[pablozablo]

What people see out the plane window is subjective. Flight times are not - they are openly published and bookable by anyone.

As per the OP, can any flat earth proponents suggest how the published flight times between Australia and South America are achievable given the relative distances required on a flat earth?

[Westprog]

This thread shows how these discussions routinely get derailed by descent into irrelevant details.

Whether or not commercial flights do or do not pass over the Antarctic land mass is of very minor importance compared to the big anomalies with the FE theory applied to the Southern Hemisphere.

If the FE theory is true, then the Southern Hemisphere occupies a far greater area than the Northern. The Sun has a far greater distance to travel. While it's almost plausible that the Sun could hover over the North pole (a place that supposedly exists) for six months of the year, it's entirely absurd to claim that it can cover the entirety of the inside of the Antarctic circle and be visible from every point on the Antarctic ring.

I'm not sure how many people live in the Southern Hemisphere, but there must be many millions. I think they can all testify that as you move South from the Equator, the days get progressively longer when it's Southern Summer (Northern Winter), and eventually you get to the stage where the Sun is visible 24 hours a day.

There's no possible way to explain this with a FE model. According to that model, the further South you go, the more ground the Sun has to cover. The days should get shorter in summer, not longer.

However, the certainty that no FE supporter will substantially engage with this is almost as sure as the Sun coming up in the morning. I daresay that this post will garner a warning or just be quietly deleted though.

[Westprog]

It's also a fact that the supposed vastly greater distances between the Southern land masses according to the FE model should lead to vastly greater flight times across the board. As it is, flight times conform very closely to the global model. Again, this is normally addressed by looking for the one flight time (usually miscalculated or spurious) that might seem out of step with predictions).

It's highly probable that some flight times will have anomalies due to various issues. However, it's also clear that the vast majority of flights will be proportionate to the distances involved. As they are.

[douglips]

Your close family lied to you and you are perpetuating that lie here on a forum.

There are no commercial flights that take place within the Antarctic Circle.

There are no commercial flights that fly within a few thousand miles of the Ice Wall.

Dude.
You can literally go there. To the actual South Pole. It's very expensive, because it's niche, to say the least, but there are companies who will take you there.

https://www.polar-quest.com/trips/antarctica/fly-to-the-south-pole

Shouting "fake" and "lies" at everything which doesn't match your world view is not being a skeptic, it's just denial.

Listen, this is certainly not a case of shouting "fake and lies."

The OP made a statement (people on flights from Australia to South America can see Antarctica) that was patently untrue.

How is that untrue? Here's a video of flying from Australia to South America on a commercial jet and seeing Antarctica:

[TomInAustin]

What people see out the plane window is subjective. Flight times are not - they are openly published and bookable by anyone.

As per the OP, can any flat earth proponents suggest how the published flight times between Australia and South America are achievable given the relative distances required on a flat earth?

If you are flying between southern points on continents in the southern hemisphere and see a large ice-covered body of land its a safe bet what you are seeing.

[totallackey]

Your close family lied to you and you are perpetuating that lie here on a forum.

There are no commercial flights that take place within the Antarctic Circle.

There are no commercial flights that fly within a few thousand miles of the Ice Wall.

Dude.
You can literally go there. To the actual South Pole. It's very expensive, because it's niche, to say the least, but there are companies who will take you there.

https://www.polar-quest.com/trips/antarctica/fly-to-the-south-pole

Shouting "fake" and "lies" at everything which doesn't match your world view is not being a skeptic, it's just denial.

Listen, this is certainly not a case of shouting "fake and lies."

The OP made a statement (people on flights from Australia to South America can see Antarctica) that was patently untrue.

How is that untrue? Here's a video of flying from Australia to South America on a commercial jet and seeing Antarctica:

Lots of snow and ice does not equal Antarctica.

It is a fact no commercial flights take place within any portion of Antarctic airspace.

[Opeo]

Your close family lied to you and you are perpetuating that lie here on a forum.

There are no commercial flights that take place within the Antarctic Circle.

There are no commercial flights that fly within a few thousand miles of the Ice Wall.

Dude.
You can literally go there. To the actual South Pole. It's very expensive, because it's niche, to say the least, but there are companies who will take you there.

https://www.polar-quest.com/trips/antarctica/fly-to-the-south-pole

Shouting "fake" and "lies" at everything which doesn't match your world view is not being a skeptic, it's just denial.

Listen, this is certainly not a case of shouting "fake and lies."

The OP made a statement (people on flights from Australia to South America can see Antarctica) that was patently untrue.

How is that untrue? Here's a video of flying from Australia to South America on a commercial jet and seeing Antarctica:

Lots of snow and ice does not equal Antarctica.

It is a fact no commercial flights take place within any portion of Antarctic airspace.

Could you point to another place that looks like that between Australia and South America? (It'll make my day if you say Greenland)

Also any source on that hot claim about commercial flights? It's not common for pure transport since great circle routes rarely cross it and there are additional safety requirements for flights that do, but it's certainly happened before. If I booked one of these flights would they surreptitiously stick us in a wind tunnel with HD TVs over the windows? http://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/