totallackey

Re: planes
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2018, 12:21:33 PM »
Unless you can provide some documentary evidence of that, I am going to insist that it is totally fabricated rubbish!
If you look at what you said:
Quote from: totallackey
Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day (becoming fewer and fewer) and that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time.
Unless you can provide some documentary evidence of that, I am going to insist that it is totally fabricated rubbish!
Yes, your claim was, "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day".

You have given one chart with possible errors of 200-300 m.
The video title claims that the GPS doesn't work, but the GPS did work and gave differences with the chart of 200-300 m.
Unless you show some independent evidence there is no way of knowing whether the error is in the GPS or the chart.

My guess is that the GPS was accurate and charts for South Georgia were not up to date.
Especially as the navigator says, "We have to round up this corner because the map is wrong. It's a little more like this."

So, you are complaining about a 200-300 m error in a remote location, when you don't even have an official flat earth map! What a joke!

In any case, it's a far cry from "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day" so you have not made a case especially when you go on to say "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

So try again, better luck next time.
Better luck?

You asked for documentary evidence.

I provided documentary evidence; specifically, the Mighty Ships documentary.

And if you pay attention, the charts are also suspect.

So, get bent.

totallackey

Re: planes
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2018, 03:19:22 PM »
No-one claimed that he did, and neither did he know any details of Antarctica, which is also on the example in Wikipedia.
But the evidence indicates that he did create the Azimutal Equidistant Projection - meaning the type of projection.
No, the evidence is he did not create the AEP.

"Al-Bīrūnī, in full Abū al-Rayḥān Muḥammad ibn Aḥmad al-Bīrūnī, (born Sept. 4, 973 CE, Khwārezm, Khorāsān [now in Uzbekistan]—died c. 1052, Ghazna [now Ghaznī, Afg.), Muslim astronomer, mathematician, ethnographist, anthropologist, historian, and geographer." Encyclopedia Britannica

"Al-Biruni is regarded as one of the greatest scholars of the medieval Islamic era and was well versed in physics, mathematics, astronomy, and natural sciences, and also distinguished himself as a historian, chronologist and linguist.[11]" - Wikipedia

Care to point out the word cartography in either of those descriptions?

Disingenuity at its highest form...

totallackey

Re: planes
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2018, 03:25:18 PM »
So if the earth is flat, why does it only take a couple hours to fly from one side of the world to another? Wouldn't you have to fly directly across the whole world if it was flat?

Regardless of what junker says, the Earth is round. And it takes about 20 seconds to circumnavigate the globe if you're at the North (or South, contrary to the garbage AE map) pole; just walk around the pole. You should take a look at the FE map; it is a series of concentric circles representing lines of latitude. This means that regardless of the model, a few hours time is reasonable. What aren't reasonable, however, are the various distances that the FE map purports to give (my favorite was South Africa to Australia). The reason why an authoritative, consistent FE map hasn't been given is because it's an impossible task. The distances between points on Earth effectively fix it to be the shape it is. If you measure a triangle on Earth, you'll find that the sum of its angles exceeds 180 degrees. This is proof enough that the Earth is round.

Those who say the Earth is flat are misinformed about the geometry of the Earth, a lot of science, the nature of the scientific method, and sometimes a lot of science.
All maps, when unfolded, are flat.

Flat maps have existed before the depiction of the Earth on a spherical surface {i.e., GLOBE).

It is the GLOBE that requires the alteration of the flat map to fit its surface.

Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day (becoming fewer and fewer) and that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time.

The reason? The explorer ASSUMES A SPHERICAL EARTH, rather than just trusting the flat map.
Any evidence for this claim at all? Or just throwing it into the wind?
What?

That maps unfold to flat surface?

That flat maps existed before a representation of a globe earth?

That it is the Globe earth model that requires a flat map to be altered?

Or that charts of the Southern Pacific, Southern Atlantic, and Southern Ocean, being interpreted with a bias toward globe earth result in errors?

I have presented evidence.

Offline jayjay

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Re: planes
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2018, 11:19:46 PM »
Unless you can provide some documentary evidence of that, I am going to insist that it is totally fabricated rubbish!
If you look at what you said:
Quote from: totallackey
Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day (becoming fewer and fewer) and that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time.
Unless you can provide some documentary evidence of that, I am going to insist that it is totally fabricated rubbish!
Yes, your claim was, "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day".

You have given one chart with possible errors of 200-300 m.
The video title claims that the GPS doesn't work, but the GPS did work and gave differences with the chart of 200-300 m.
Unless you show some independent evidence there is no way of knowing whether the error is in the GPS or the chart.

My guess is that the GPS was accurate and charts for South Georgia were not up to date.
Especially as the navigator says, "We have to round up this corner because the map is wrong. It's a little more like this."

So, you are complaining about a 200-300 m error in a remote location, when you don't even have an official flat earth map! What a joke!

In any case, it's a far cry from "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day" so you have not made a case especially when you go on to say "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

So try again, better luck next time.
Better luck?

You asked for documentary evidence.

I provided documentary evidence; specifically, the Mighty Ships documentary.

And if you pay attention, the charts are also suspect.

So, get bent.

You have not presented evidence that "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day". Can you at least admit that?

It's awesome that you have presented evidence of one map being incorrect, but how does that prove or disprove that all maps are wrong? Is it possible that over time the science of drawing maps has improved and some older maps were not drawn correctly, and they are getting better over time?

And how does any of that prove or disprove that the earth is flat?

totallackey

Re: planes
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2018, 11:41:31 PM »
Unless you can provide some documentary evidence of that, I am going to insist that it is totally fabricated rubbish!
If you look at what you said:
Quote from: totallackey
Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day (becoming fewer and fewer) and that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time.
Unless you can provide some documentary evidence of that, I am going to insist that it is totally fabricated rubbish!
Yes, your claim was, "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day".

You have given one chart with possible errors of 200-300 m.
The video title claims that the GPS doesn't work, but the GPS did work and gave differences with the chart of 200-300 m.
Unless you show some independent evidence there is no way of knowing whether the error is in the GPS or the chart.

My guess is that the GPS was accurate and charts for South Georgia were not up to date.
Especially as the navigator says, "We have to round up this corner because the map is wrong. It's a little more like this."

So, you are complaining about a 200-300 m error in a remote location, when you don't even have an official flat earth map! What a joke!

In any case, it's a far cry from "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day" so you have not made a case especially when you go on to say "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

So try again, better luck next time.
Better luck?

You asked for documentary evidence.

I provided documentary evidence; specifically, the Mighty Ships documentary.

And if you pay attention, the charts are also suspect.

So, get bent.

You have not presented evidence that "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day". Can you at least admit that?
Nope.

No man-made object is perfect.
It's awesome that you have presented evidence of one map being incorrect, but how does that prove or disprove that all maps are wrong?
In and of itself, it does not.

The fact no man-made object is perfect does, however.
Is it possible that over time the science of drawing maps has improved and some older maps were not drawn correctly, and they are getting better over time?
Yep, hence my original statement included the words, "becoming fewer and fewer," in reference to the amount of errors.

Please take a remedial reading course in terms of comprehension.
And how does any of that prove or disprove that the earth is flat?
Who said my purpose in my post was to prove or disprove anything?

Offline jayjay

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Re: planes
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2018, 01:46:40 AM »

Yep, hence my original statement included the words, "becoming fewer and fewer," in reference to the amount of errors.

Please take a remedial reading course in terms of comprehension.

Excellent, then you agree that your evidence for your claim is without merit. Thank you!

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: planes
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2018, 01:58:49 AM »
Unless you can provide some documentary evidence of that, I am going to insist that it is totally fabricated rubbish!
If you look at what you said:
Quote from: totallackey
Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day (becoming fewer and fewer) and that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time.
Unless you can provide some documentary evidence of that, I am going to insist that it is totally fabricated rubbish!
Yes, your claim was, "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day".
You have given one chart with possible errors of 200-300 m.
In any case, it's a far cry from "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day" so you have not made a case especially when you go on to say "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

So try again, better luck next time.
Better luck?
You asked for documentary evidence. I provided documentary evidence; specifically, the Mighty Ships documentary.
And if you pay attention, the charts are also suspect.
So, get bent.
That video did not provide any evidence that the GPS failed, just that the GPS and chart disagreed by 200-300 m.

So what?

I paid attention! Your claim was, "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day" so you have not made a case especially when you go on to say "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

You post one video indicating that in one remote location one chart may be 200-300 m in error!
So what?

You posted no evidence at all that "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day"
nor that "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

Now you show me any flat earth map that is accurate to within 2-3 km across the southern hemisphere.
And be careful because I live in the southern hemisphere and check near here quite easily.

Oh, I forgot, there is no flat earth map! How remiss of me! Come back when you have a better map!

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: planes
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2018, 02:33:25 AM »
No-one claimed that he did, and neither did he know any details of Antarctica, which is also on the example in Wikipedia.
But the evidence indicates that he did create the Azimutal Equidistant Projection - meaning the type of projection.
No, the evidence is he did not create the AEP.
"Al-Bīrūnī, in full Abū al-Rayḥān Muḥammad ibn Aḥmad al-Bīrūnī, (born Sept. 4, 973 CE, Khwārezm, Khorāsān [now in Uzbekistan]—died c. 1052, Ghazna [now Ghaznī, Afg.), Muslim astronomer, mathematician, ethnographist, anthropologist, historian, and geographer." Encyclopedia Britannica
"Al-Biruni is regarded as one of the greatest scholars of the medieval Islamic era and was well versed in physics, mathematics, astronomy, and natural sciences, and also distinguished himself as a historian, chronologist and linguist.[11]" - Wikipedia

Care to point out the word cartography in either of those descriptions?

Disingenuity at its highest form...
Ignorance in its lowest form!

So what?
Quote
FlatEarthWiki.com is an encyclopedia, and an encyclopedia needs people to write it. Unlike most other reference works, we don't pay people to write for us, and there are very few incentives, perks or privileges associated with contributing. As such, our most valuable resource is neither money nor webspace, but Flat Earth Wiki's contributors, those dedicated people who take time out of their lives to edit, improve or maintain articles. In short, editors matter; and one of the important priorities of the Flat Earth community must be to recruit and retain good contributors. 
We currently have 471 articles about Flat Earth THANKS TO 2 ACTIVE EDITORS
Azimuthal Equidistant Projection
The azimuthal equidistant projection is an azimuthal map projection. It has the useful properties that all points on the map are at proportionately correct distances from the center point, and that all points on the map are at the correct azimuth (direction) from the center point. A useful application for this type of projection is a polar projection which shows all meridians (lines of longitude) as straight, with distances from the pole represented correctly. The flag of the United Nations contains an example of a polar azimuthal equidistant projection.

This projection is used by the USGS in the National Atlas of the United States of America, and for large-scale mapping of Micronesia. It is useful for showing airline distances from center point of projection and for seismic and radio work.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
History
While it may have been used by ancient Egyptians for star maps in some holy books, the earliest text describing the azimuthal equidistant projection is an 11th-century work by al-Biruni.

The projection appears in many Renaissance maps, and Gerardus Mercator used it for an inset of the north polar regions in sheet 13 and legend 6 of his well-known 1569 map. In France and Russia this projection is named "Postel projection" after Guillaume Postel, who used it for a map in 1581. Many modern star chart planispheres use the polar azimuthal equidistant projection.

Go read the rest for yourself in: Flat Earth Wiki, Azimuthal Equidistant Projection
You might also look at:
Quote from:  Zia H Shah
Al Biruni: One of the Greatest Pioneers of Science
A statue of Biruni adorns the southwest entrance of Laleh Park in Tehran, Iran.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Biruni’s works number 146 in total. These include 35 books on astronomy, 4 on astrolabes, 23 on astrology, . . . .  9 on geography, 10 on geodesy and mapping theory, 15 on mathematics (8 on arithmetic, 5 on geometry, 2 on trigonometry), . . . .

Read the rest in: Al Biruni: One of the Greatest Pioneers of ScienceThe Muslim Times,
Plenty more where they came from!

I think that I'll believe all the references before a Total Lackey. A bit of good advice from Mark Twain:
Quote
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Though it's a bit late for some people.

totallackey

Re: planes
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2018, 08:48:29 AM »

Yep, hence my original statement included the words, "becoming fewer and fewer," in reference to the amount of errors.

Please take a remedial reading course in terms of comprehension.

Excellent, then you agree that your evidence for your claim is without merit. Thank you!
My original claim stands and always will stand.

All maps contain errors because they are man made.

Are you normally this obtuse?
Bunch of crapola Geoff normally writes when he gets pwned...
You asked for documentary evidence right?

I provided a documentary.

Showed exactly what I stated.

All maps, being man made, will contain errors.

Now go lay down somewhere and sleep it off.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 09:02:57 AM by totallackey »

totallackey

Re: planes
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2018, 08:57:41 AM »
The regular drivel of inane text one posts when caught with their tit in the wringer...
All maps contain errors.

They are man-made.

I provided you documentary evidence, exactly what was asked for.

You provide..."Nu uh..."

LMFAO!!!

Re: planes
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2018, 08:57:53 AM »

Yep, hence my original statement included the words, "becoming fewer and fewer," in reference to the amount of errors.

Please take a remedial reading course in terms of comprehension.

Excellent, then you agree that your evidence for your claim is without merit. Thank you!
My original claim stands and always will stand you moran.

All maps contain errors because they are man made.

Are you normally this dense?
And why is that an issue?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: planes
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2018, 10:23:44 AM »
Yep, hence my original statement included the words, "becoming fewer and fewer," in reference to the amount of errors.
Please take a remedial reading course in terms of comprehension.
Excellent, then you agree that your evidence for your claim is without merit. Thank you!
My original claim stands and always will stand.
All maps contain errors because they are man made.
Totally irrelevant to your original claim. Don't move the goalposts.
Quote from: totallackey
Are you normally this obtuse?
<<< Lying forged quote deleted >>
You asked for documentary evidence right? I provided a documentary. Showed exactly what I stated.
All maps, being man made, will contain errors.
Totally irrelevant to your original claim. You showed one documentary that showed the possibility of one small error in one chart.
Quote from: totallackey
Now go lay down somewhere and sleep it off.
No, Mr Totally Lacking, you claimed, "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day" so you have not made a case especially when you go on to say "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

You post one video indicating that in one remote location one chart may be 200-300 m in error!
So what?

You posted no evidence at all that "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day"
nor that "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

Now Mr Totally Lacking, This morning I saw a video of a white rabbit.  So, according to your logic all rabbits are white.

Rubbish, just as the one video you showed is not evidence that your original claim was proved. Here read it again. 
Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day (becoming fewer and fewer) and that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time.

All your blustering and idiotically confusing me with Geoff won't prove anything. You really have lost the plot on this one.
So, run away before prove yourself more foolish still.

totallackey

Re: planes
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2018, 03:10:34 PM »
Totally irrelevant to your original claim. Don't move the goalposts.
Did not move the goalposts.
Totally irrelevant to your original claim. You showed one documentary that showed the possibility of one small error in one chart.
Which is what you asked for.
No, Mr Totally Lacking, you claimed, "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day" so you have not made a case especially when you go on to say "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

You post one video indicating that in one remote location one chart may be 200-300 m in error!
So what?
Because the specific example I provided demonstrated exactly that... 
You posted no evidence at all that "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day"
All maps contain errors because they are man-made.
nor that "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".
Specific example already posted.
Now Mr Totally Lacking, This morning I saw a video of a white rabbit.  So, according to your logic all rabbits are white.
False equivalency.
Rubbish, just as the one video you showed is not evidence that your original claim was proved.
Again, quit posting your rubbish. I provided exact evidence of my claim.
All your blustering and idiotically confusing me with Geoff won't prove anything. You really have lost the plot on this one.
So, run away before prove yourself more foolish still.
I know you JREF-ugees by heart there Geoff...

I have not lost the plot.

You can continue to focus on the haystack.

I am going after the needle.

Now again, it would be best for your health to go sleep this latest one off...

Re: planes
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2018, 07:33:58 PM »
totallackey, you said:

"that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time."

You then provided an example of a 200 meter error.

How fast do you think boats go?

When someone accuses you of moving the goalposts, this is what they mean. You claim VAST inaccuracies in southern hemisphere maps, and then find one TINY inaccuracy.

You are right that all human maps are made with tiny inaccuracies. So what? Your claim was "several hours of travel time."

totallackey

Re: planes
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2018, 08:18:05 PM »
totallackey, you said:

"that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time."

You then provided an example of a 200 meter error.

How fast do you think boats go?

When someone accuses you of moving the goalposts, this is what they mean. You claim VAST inaccuracies in southern hemisphere maps, and then find one TINY inaccuracy.
Aside from this sentence I am writing, point out where I have written the word, "vast."
You are right that all human maps are made with tiny inaccuracies. So what? Your claim was "several hours of travel time."
You can look at the documentary and see there was several hours of travel time lost on the cruise.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 10:35:30 PM by totallackey »

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: planes
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2018, 10:14:07 PM »
No, Mr Totally Lacking, you claimed, "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day" so you have not made a case especially when you go on to say "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

You posted one video indicating that in one remote location one chart may be 200-300 m in error!
So what?
Because the specific example I provided demonstrated exactly that... 
No! I repeat that you showed ONE example. You did not show that:
Quote
Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day (becoming fewer and fewer) and that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time.
The reason? The explorer ASSUMES A SPHERICAL EARTH, rather than just trusting the flat map.

Please tell us about this secret accurate "flat map" the "The explorer" should be "trusting"! I thought that there was no definitive flat earth map!

Quote from: totallackey
All maps contain errors because they are man-made.
That I will grant you, but all diagrams and even engineering drawings contain "error".
Any map can only be as accurate as the best survey of the region.
Before satellite mapping there was no better method of finding a location in a remote region of the earth than celestial navigation.
According to all I can find that accuracy can never be better than to within about ±200 m.

From a number of base locations, geodetic surveyors can then map out the rest of the region. When aerial mapping became feasible that was used to fill in the detail.

So it is unlikely that navigation charts in the pre-satellite mapping era ever had an absolute accuracy better than this ±200 m whatever the shape of the earth.
And even that ±200 m is very optimistic.

Quote from: totallackey
nor that "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".
Specific example already posted.
Now Mr Totally Lacking, This morning I saw a video of a white rabbit.  So, according to your logic all rabbits are white.
False equivalency.
Not "False equivalence" because if I find a chart that does not have significant errors I disprove the claim that claim that "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day".
All I have to do if present that map "to any explorer south of the Equator" and your case is blown out of the water.

But all you seem interested in is "scoring points" and that does nothing towards settling the Flat/Globe shape of the earth.
If you could present a flat earth map that was as accurate as the pre-satellite mapping maps of countries it would help your case no end.

I have a fairly high-resolution map of Australia published in 1855.
Simply scaling from that map gives the width of Australia along the 30°S latitude to within about 30 km of current the value.
Show me any FE map of comparable accuracy.

And in closing, Mr Totallackey, you are an ignorant idiot if you think that Geoff and I are the same person.

Bye bye Mr Totally Lost it!

totallackey

Re: planes
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2018, 10:24:43 PM »
No, Mr Totally Lacking, you claimed, "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day" so you have not made a case especially when you go on to say "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

You posted one video indicating that in one remote location one chart may be 200-300 m in error!
So what?
Because the specific example I provided demonstrated exactly that... 
No! I repeat that you showed ONE example. You did not show that:
Quote
Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day (becoming fewer and fewer) and that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time.
The reason? The explorer ASSUMES A SPHERICAL EARTH, rather than just trusting the flat map.

Please tell us about this secret accurate "flat map" the "The explorer" should be "trusting"! I thought that there was no definitive flat earth map!

Quote from: totallackey
All maps contain errors because they are man-made.
That I will grant you, but all diagrams and even engineering drawings contain "error".
Any map can only be as accurate as the best survey of the region.
Before satellite mapping there was no better method of finding a location in a remote region of the earth than celestial navigation.
According to all I can find that accuracy can never be better than to within about ±200 m.

From a number of base locations, geodetic surveyors can then map out the rest of the region. When aerial mapping became feasible that was used to fill in the detail.

So it is unlikely that navigation charts in the pre-satellite mapping era ever had an absolute accuracy better than this ±200 m whatever the shape of the earth.
And even that ±200 m is very optimistic.
So you are confirming plus/minus 200m is as accurate as we have achieved.

Great!
Not "False equivalence" because if I find a chart that does not have significant errors I disprove the claim that claim that "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day".
All I have to do if present that map "to any explorer south of the Equator" and your case is blown out of the water.

Okay.
But all you seem interested in is "scoring points" and that does nothing towards settling the Flat/Globe shape of the earth.
If you could present a flat earth map that was as accurate as the pre-satellite mapping maps of countries it would help your case no end.

I have a fairly high-resolution map of Australia published in 1855.
Simply scaling from that map gives the width of Australia along the 30°S latitude to within about 30 km of current the value.
Show me any FE map of comparable accuracy.
If the chart you were looking at was "flat," then it was, "flat."
And in closing, Mr Totallackey, you are an ignorant idiot if you think that Geoff and I are the same person.

Bye bye Mr Totally Lost it!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 10:38:53 PM by totallackey »

Re: planes
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2018, 11:35:30 PM »
No, Mr Totally Lacking, you claimed, "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day" so you have not made a case especially when you go on to say "that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time".

You posted one video indicating that in one remote location one chart may be 200-300 m in error!
So what?
Because the specific example I provided demonstrated exactly that... 
No! I repeat that you showed ONE example. You did not show that:
Quote
Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day (becoming fewer and fewer) and that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time.
The reason? The explorer ASSUMES A SPHERICAL EARTH, rather than just trusting the flat map.

Please tell us about this secret accurate "flat map" the "The explorer" should be "trusting"! I thought that there was no definitive flat earth map!

Quote from: totallackey
All maps contain errors because they are man-made.
That I will grant you, but all diagrams and even engineering drawings contain "error".
Any map can only be as accurate as the best survey of the region.
Before satellite mapping there was no better method of finding a location in a remote region of the earth than celestial navigation.
According to all I can find that accuracy can never be better than to within about ±200 m.

From a number of base locations, geodetic surveyors can then map out the rest of the region. When aerial mapping became feasible that was used to fill in the detail.

So it is unlikely that navigation charts in the pre-satellite mapping era ever had an absolute accuracy better than this ±200 m whatever the shape of the earth.
And even that ±200 m is very optimistic.
So you are confirming plus/minus 200m is as accurate as we have achieved.

Great!
Not "False equivalence" because if I find a chart that does not have significant errors I disprove the claim that claim that "Any map presented to any explorer south of the Equator has errors to this day".
All I have to do if present that map "to any explorer south of the Equator" and your case is blown out of the water.

Okay.
But all you seem interested in is "scoring points" and that does nothing towards settling the Flat/Globe shape of the earth.
If you could present a flat earth map that was as accurate as the pre-satellite mapping maps of countries it would help your case no end.

I have a fairly high-resolution map of Australia published in 1855.
Simply scaling from that map gives the width of Australia along the 30°S latitude to within about 30 km of current the value.
Show me any FE map of comparable accuracy.
If the chart you were looking at was "flat," then it was, "flat."
And in closing, Mr Totallackey, you are an ignorant idiot if you think that Geoff and I are the same person.

Bye bye Mr Totally Lost it!

Accuracy and repeatibility of GPS  measurements are 4m for the civilian system.

Re: planes
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2018, 02:44:07 AM »
totallackey, you said:

"that explorer will soon find themselves off-heading, sometimes up to several hours of travel time."

You then provided an example of a 200 meter error.

How fast do you think boats go?

When someone accuses you of moving the goalposts, this is what they mean. You claim VAST inaccuracies in southern hemisphere maps, and then find one TINY inaccuracy.
Aside from this sentence I am writing, point out where I have written the word, "vast."
You are right that all human maps are made with tiny inaccuracies. So what? Your claim was "several hours of travel time."
You can look at the documentary and see there was several hours of travel time lost on the cruise.

I saw several hours lost due to a storm around 8:00 minutes into the video you shared. I did not see any loss of time due to being several hours off course. Please help me find it - can you tell me what minutes of this I should review? I watched the whole thing and the only thing that seemed to delay the voyage was storms.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: planes
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2018, 03:00:47 AM »
Show me any FE map of comparable accuracy.
If the chart you were looking at was "flat," then it was, "flat."
But, it was not a "flat map" of "the flat earth" it was a projection of small portion of the Globe onto a flat surface.
Heap big difference!

And how does a projection of the Globe onto a flat surface help prove that the earth is flat?
I guess it doesn't, all you ever try to prove is that you are technically correct.

But, I asked you for "any FE map of comparable accuracy" - I guess you are admitting that you can't do that.

Quote from: totallackey
And in closing, Mr Totallackey, you are an ignorant idiot if you think that Geoff and I are the same person.

Bye bye Mr Totally More Lost it!