Recent Posts

1
Technology & Information / Re: Ordered a new computer
« Last post by Baby Thork on Today at 06:05:30 PM »
I'd rather have Wondows than Lonix.
2
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Using airline flight data.
« Last post by Stagiri on Today at 05:59:59 PM »
These two 4-cornered itineraries take roughly the same amount of time.  Any flat projection of the earth needs to account for it.  The problem is that you get a wrap-around problem on one of the legs that should make the trip far longer.  If you bunch the countries together at the northern poll then the southern itinerary suffers.  Bunching to the south messes up the north conversely.  There is logically no way to arrange and stretch the continents on a flat surface that will account for these two itineraries at the same time.

However, if the earth wraps around like a tube, then the numbers can be justified.  All of this makes the assumption that planes don't deliberately sometimes fly slower just to trick us.

This is evidence. Let me know what you think.

I'm not surprised that this hasn't garnered responses. The claim is always that the various maps are all inaccurate, and that the real flat Earth map hasn't yet been produced. Flight times, however, are inherently incompatible with any flat Earth map.

I think I've mooted the idea of a school project involving wire and plasticine. Cut the wire to lengths proportional to the travel times between cities, and try to make a model accordingly. It's not possible to make a flat model. Connect the wires between North and South of the Equator, and you start to build a sphere. It's the only way the connections link up. It's not perfect, of course. Shorter flights spend proportionately more time on the runway and attaining altitude, and not all flights are at the same speed. Prevailing winds will have an influence. Still, as a way of getting a general concept of the shape of the world, it's not bad.

Flight times are an excellent way to kill the flat Earth nonsense from the start, because unlike many of the ways to verify the globe, flight times involve the everyday experience of ordinary people. Tell people about measuring angles to the Sun, and they switch off. Tell them about how long it takes to fly to Hawaii, and they know that's for real.

It's clear that most of the people on this board are here to debunk FE.  I'm interested in their motivations.  Do they think they're going to change minds?  Is it the challenge?  Have they just picked a group they can easily ridicule?

Interested.

I'm here, if for nothing else, to challenge and improve my own opinions and world views.
3
Tom, we're up to 12 pages now, and as far as I can see, there's NOBODY who even slightly agrees with you.

Don't you think this might be telling you .... something?
Not quite true. I agreed with him when he said that 360 divides exactly by 24. I didn’t agree with him if he thought there was any significance in that.

I think the trouble here is Tom seems to think that the number of rotations the earth makes as it orbits the sun should be an integer. But it isn’t and there is no reason why it should.
4
Equinox is just the sun passing the equatorial plane, its not a fixed point.
Right. And there’s nothing in that definition requiring it to occur after a whole number of 365 solar day rotations of the earth. The extra 0.24 hours don’t “come out of nowhere.” That event doesn’t occur at the same moment every 365 solar says. It happens about 6 hours later every year.

And as Macharios says, (I think) the calendar we use for convention’s sake ignores those “extra hours” for a few years even though celestially the equinox is shifted. Rather than adjust yearly, incrementally, we let it go, accounting for those extra hours with a whole day adjustment every 4 years to realign. But the sun and earth don’t wait for man’s calendar. If we didn’t adjust, our calendars would fall behind because of those “extra hours” and after awhile, we’d notice the seasons weren’t right.

The equinox shifts 6 hours a year?

The equinox's variation occurs with a rotation of about once every 25,772 years. The shift takes a very long time. At the moment The Equinox is aligned with the constellation of Pisces, and we are moving into the "Age of Aquarius." The time between Zodiac points is about 2,150 years.

The Sun needs to get back to the point of the Equinox under the definition of a Solar Year. It has to match up with the Solar Day.
First sentence, I agree. It “needs to” for the definition to be true.

But what I’m not getting is why you think the second sentence is a “has to” situation and, if it doesn’t, it’s a problem.

It clearly doesn’t meet your “has to” expectation since Equinox occurrence slides later by about 5.8 “extra hours” each year, and would keep sliding forward into the calendar year if we didn’t add a day to the calendar every four years.

I’m not picking up on why this is a problem. Solar days don’t “have to” fit neatly  and non-fractionally into the solar year. Not in reality, and not by definition.

The Equinox shifts with a rotation of about once every 25,772 years, due to the movement of the Galaxy.

Why is it shifting 6 hours a year? What kind of Galaxy do we live in?

Now, would you care to point out where *anywhere* uses a whole number of solar days to define a solar year? Or where *anywhere* even suggests this should be the case? Other than your misintepretation of something, or not reading something fully, nothing suggests this but you. You are completely alone in suggestion there must be a whole number of solar days in a solar year. (remember, a calendar year =/= a solar year)

There are 24 hours in a Solar Day. There are 354.24 Solar Days in a Solar Year.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year we read

Quote
The mean tropical year in 2000 was 365.24219 ephemeris days; each ephemeris day lasting 86,400 SI seconds.[1] This is 365.24217 mean solar days (Richards 2013, p. 587).

The Solar Year is defined at the moment where sun intersects the Equinox, which only occurs twice a year (March Equinox and September Equinox). The Time between one March Equinox to the next March Equinox is 354.24 Solar Days, with incredibly slight variation at decimal points beyond that.

Where do the extra hours come from?

The Equinox moves 6 hours in a year? The Equinox moves due to the rotation of the Galaxy, and a quarter rotation of the Equinox takes many eons.

Yes, equinoxes do, in fact, "get delayed" by 6 hours every year.

Quote
Where do the extra hours come from?

Didn't you start this thread to prove that days don't fit into one year? That's the reason exactly why equinoxes shift (see the image below).


(Not mine, click to visit)
5
Technology & Information / Re: Ordered a new computer
« Last post by Rushy on Today at 05:37:38 PM »
Thork, I hate to tell you this but Wondows 10 is not a real operating system. You've been scammed.
6
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Last post by Rushy on Today at 05:31:17 PM »
Meanwhile in Canada, a perpetrator who had just finished running over 20 or so people was taken down without a shot being fired.

Impressive as the cop, puts his gun away and pulls his batton, in Luke-world he would have been dead, Americans seem to have forgotten the protect and serve mantra, in favour of look after number one.

Now instead of getting the Instant Death Penalty he'll be stuck in a concrete room wasting tax payer dollars. Definitely the better outcome for everyone, haha. All thanks to "if you kill your enemies, they win" Trudeau.
To be fair:
You suffer longer in prison.  And America is all about suffering.  So which is better for society?  A quick, easy death for a criminal, or knowing he'll rot and suffer for decades, longing for death as he's raped over and over again by those bigger than him?

Why do I care about someone suffering in what is essentially just a longer form of the death penalty? I've never understood the "we have to punish them" approach to crime. We just have to remove them from society, punishing them is meaningless. Banning them from the universe seems like a cheaper and easier punishment than having them waste away in some cell for years.

Maybe he has mental health issues and needs help.

His mental health issues are apparently a direct result of "tfw no gf" so unless you plan on issuing him a state-sponsored girlfriend I think he's better off in the ground where at least the amount of damage he can still do to anyone around him is zero.
7
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Using airline flight data.
« Last post by pinecone on Today at 05:30:29 PM »
These two 4-cornered itineraries take roughly the same amount of time.  Any flat projection of the earth needs to account for it.  The problem is that you get a wrap-around problem on one of the legs that should make the trip far longer.  If you bunch the countries together at the northern poll then the southern itinerary suffers.  Bunching to the south messes up the north conversely.  There is logically no way to arrange and stretch the continents on a flat surface that will account for these two itineraries at the same time.

However, if the earth wraps around like a tube, then the numbers can be justified.  All of this makes the assumption that planes don't deliberately sometimes fly slower just to trick us.

This is evidence. Let me know what you think.

I'm not surprised that this hasn't garnered responses. The claim is always that the various maps are all inaccurate, and that the real flat Earth map hasn't yet been produced. Flight times, however, are inherently incompatible with any flat Earth map.

I think I've mooted the idea of a school project involving wire and plasticine. Cut the wire to lengths proportional to the travel times between cities, and try to make a model accordingly. It's not possible to make a flat model. Connect the wires between North and South of the Equator, and you start to build a sphere. It's the only way the connections link up. It's not perfect, of course. Shorter flights spend proportionately more time on the runway and attaining altitude, and not all flights are at the same speed. Prevailing winds will have an influence. Still, as a way of getting a general concept of the shape of the world, it's not bad.

Flight times are an excellent way to kill the flat Earth nonsense from the start, because unlike many of the ways to verify the globe, flight times involve the everyday experience of ordinary people. Tell people about measuring angles to the Sun, and they switch off. Tell them about how long it takes to fly to Hawaii, and they know that's for real.

It's clear that most of the people on this board are here to debunk FE.  I'm interested in their motivations.  Do they think they're going to change minds?  Is it the challenge?  Have they just picked a group they can easily ridicule?

Interested.
8
Now, would you care to point out where *anywhere* uses a whole number of solar days to define a solar year? Or where *anywhere* even suggests this should be the case? Other than your misintepretation of something, or not reading something fully, nothing suggests this but you. You are completely alone in suggestion there must be a whole number of solar days in a solar year. (remember, a calendar year =/= a solar year)

There are 24 hours in a Solar Day. There are 354.24 Solar Days in a Solar Year.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year we read

Quote
The mean tropical year in 2000 was 365.24219 ephemeris days; each ephemeris day lasting 86,400 SI seconds.[1] This is 365.24217 mean solar days (Richards 2013, p. 587).

The Solar Year is defined where the celestial equator of the sun intersects with the equinox, which only occurs twice a year (March Equinox and September Equinox). The Time between one March Equinox to the next March Equinox is 354.24 Solar Days, with incredibly slight variation at decimal points beyond that.

Where do the extra hours come from?

The Equinox moves 6 hours in a year? The Equinox moves due to the rotation of the Galaxy, and a quarter rotation of the Equinox takes many eons.
That's not an answer to my question. Nothing there says a solar year is an integer multiple of solar days. It in fact explicitly defines it as NOT being such. Still not seeing the problem here. A solar year and a solar day have nothing to do with one another. One is in no way dependent on the other. A solar year happens. A solar day happens. We can subdivide a solar year by the number of solar days, but there's no guarantee of an integer value.

The Equinox is 6 hours different from the last one, according to our clocks, which are based around the timing of the solar day. They care nothing about the duration of a solar year. Looking at the background stars, the equinox is far more regular.

Once again. Show me anywhere that states a solar year should be evenly divisible by a solar day, or indeed that they have any mathematical correlation that must result in an integer. They are based upon two separate occurrences, that have no need, nor even reason, to be related. You appear to be the only one claiming they have to be, but have yet to present any evidence that indicates they should be, beyond things you apparently cannot be bothered to fully read.
9
Tom, we're up to 12 pages now, and as far as I can see, there's NOBODY who even slightly agrees with you.

Don't you think this might be telling you .... something?
10
Equinox is just the sun passing the equatorial plane, its not a fixed point.
Right. And there’s nothing in that definition requiring it to occur after a whole number of 365 solar day rotations of the earth. The extra 0.24 hours don’t “come out of nowhere.” That event doesn’t occur at the same moment every 365 solar says. It happens about 6 hours later every year.

And as Macharios says, (I think) the calendar we use for convention’s sake ignores those “extra hours” for a few years even though celestially the equinox is shifted. Rather than adjust yearly, incrementally, we let it go, accounting for those extra hours with a whole day adjustment every 4 years to realign. But the sun and earth don’t wait for man’s calendar. If we didn’t adjust, our calendars would fall behind because of those “extra hours” and after awhile, we’d notice the seasons weren’t right.

The equinox shifts 6 hours a year?

The equinox's variation occurs with a rotation of about once every 25,772 years. The shift takes a very long time. At the moment The Equinox is aligned with the constellation of Pisces, and we are moving into the "Age of Aquarius." The time between Zodiac points is about 2,150 years.

The Sun needs to get back to the point of the Equinox under the definition of a Solar Year. It has to match up with the Solar Day.
First sentence, I agree. It “needs to” for the definition to be true.

But what I’m not getting is why you think the second sentence is a “has to” situation and, if it doesn’t, it’s a problem.

It clearly doesn’t meet your “has to” expectation since Equinox occurrence slides later by about 5.8 “extra hours” each year, and would keep sliding forward into the calendar year if we didn’t add a day to the calendar every four years.

I’m not picking up on why this is a problem. Solar days don’t “have to” fit neatly  and non-fractionally into the solar year. Not in reality, and not by definition.

The Equinox shifts with a rotation of about once every 25,772 years, due to the movement of the Galaxy.

Why is it shifting 6 hours a year? What kind of Galaxy do we live in?

Now, would you care to point out where *anywhere* uses a whole number of solar days to define a solar year? Or where *anywhere* even suggests this should be the case? Other than your misintepretation of something, or not reading something fully, nothing suggests this but you. You are completely alone in suggestion there must be a whole number of solar days in a solar year. (remember, a calendar year =/= a solar year)

There are 24 hours in a Solar Day. There are 354.24 Solar Days in a Solar Year.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year we read

Quote
The mean tropical year in 2000 was 365.24219 ephemeris days; each ephemeris day lasting 86,400 SI seconds.[1] This is 365.24217 mean solar days (Richards 2013, p. 587).

The Solar Year is defined at the moment where sun intersects the Equinox, which only occurs twice a year (March Equinox and September Equinox). The Time between one March Equinox to the next March Equinox is 354.24 Solar Days, with incredibly slight variation at decimal points beyond that.

Where do the extra hours come from?

The Equinox moves 6 hours in a year? The Equinox moves due to the rotation of the Galaxy, and a quarter rotation of the Equinox takes many eons.