[AATW]

But why am I putting them in danger if they've had the vaccine?
Is it because it's not 100% effective or are you talking about people who can't have it?
I haven't seen the evidence about long term damage for people who are asymptomatic by the way - I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I've just not seen it. But I'd suggest that that can't be known by definition for a new virus because no-one has had it long term.

[Action80]

I don't understand JSS's argument about it only being effective if more or less everyone has the vaccination. You seem to be arguing along the same lines.
I'm not young but I am under 50, in reasonably good health and I don't have any concerns about getting the 'Rona. I wouldn't go out of my way to and I have been following (pretty much) the government guidelines. But if I get it then I don't think I'll get that ill.

I think what you are missing is you can get COVID, show no symptoms, and spread it to everyone you are in contact with for weeks.  Grocery stores, buses, planes, restaurants, and family members you visit.

By not taking the vaccine you are now a potential spreader to people who very well might die from it, and every one who gets it can spread it to others.

You are also ignoring all the evidence showing that even people who show no symptoms are suffering heart and lung damage, and we as of yet have no idea how the long term effects will play out.  You may be in serious trouble in ten years, we just don't know yet.

So yes, you might not get that obviously ill... but you are putting others in danger.  This is why you should get it, not just for yourself, but to help others.

But according to you, if you get the vaccine, that is no guarantee of being immune and therefore not spreading it to others.

Therefore, other peoples' existence, by its very nature, poses a danger to you and others.

You are not making a very sound argument at all.

[Rama Set]

But why am I putting them in danger if they've had the vaccine?
Is it because it's not 100% effective or are you talking about people who can't have it?
I haven't seen the evidence about long term damage for people who are asymptomatic by the way - I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I've just not seen it. But I'd suggest that that can't be known by definition for a new virus because no-one has had it long term.

Well they could know if it was long-term by the type of damage, but I have only seen that asymptomatic patients show signs of cardiovascular damage, not that it is long-term.

For example: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200811/asymptomatic-covid-silent-but-maybe-not-harmless

[Action80]

But why am I putting them in danger if they've had the vaccine?
Is it because it's not 100% effective or are you talking about people who can't have it?
I haven't seen the evidence about long term damage for people who are asymptomatic by the way - I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I've just not seen it. But I'd suggest that that can't be known by definition for a new virus because no-one has had it long term.

Well they could know if it was long-term by the type of damage, but I have only seen that asymptomatic patients show signs of cardiovascular damage, not that it is long-term.

For example: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200811/asymptomatic-covid-silent-but-maybe-not-harmless

"Maybe."

Seems like a very pertinent word, given the entirety of the article.

[Iceman]

But why am I putting them in danger if they've had the vaccine?
Is it because it's not 100% effective or are you talking about people who can't have it?
I haven't seen the evidence about long term damage for people who are asymptomatic by the way - I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I've just not seen it. But I'd suggest that that can't be known by definition for a new virus because no-one has had it long term.

Well they could know if it was long-term by the type of damage, but I have only seen that asymptomatic patients show signs of cardiovascular damage, not that it is long-term.

For example: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200811/asymptomatic-covid-silent-but-maybe-not-harmless

"Maybe."

Seems like a very pertinent word, given the entirety of the article.

Maybe = not a 100% chance. Numerous professional athletes have struggled with lingering - non flu - symptoms of covid.

While the likelihood might be low, It doesnt matter how healthy you are, you still are at risk of lingering serious effects.

[Action80]

But why am I putting them in danger if they've had the vaccine?
Is it because it's not 100% effective or are you talking about people who can't have it?
I haven't seen the evidence about long term damage for people who are asymptomatic by the way - I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I've just not seen it. But I'd suggest that that can't be known by definition for a new virus because no-one has had it long term.

Well they could know if it was long-term by the type of damage, but I have only seen that asymptomatic patients show signs of cardiovascular damage, not that it is long-term.

For example: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200811/asymptomatic-covid-silent-but-maybe-not-harmless

"Maybe."

Seems like a very pertinent word, given the entirety of the article.

Maybe = not a 100% chance. Numerous professional athletes have struggled with lingering - non flu - symptoms of covid.

While the likelihood might be low, It doesnt matter how healthy you are, you still are at risk of lingering serious effects.

And we have been dealing with the issues of lingering side effects for all kinds of diseases in perpetuity.

This one for only a little over a year.

And it does matter how healthy you are.

According to the article.

[Rama Set]

Anyone pretending that 95% immunity makes the vaccine not worthwhile either doesn’t understand what vaccines do or is stuck in an echo chamber. No vaccine is 100% and the COVID vaccine will only become improved upon.

[Iceman]

We've been dealing with the side effects of complex diseases, yes, but do you think people arent working towards ending that?
People somehow forget that vaccines have eradicated terrible diseases off the face of the planet. Sure we still have cancer, aids, ALS and many more debilitating sicknesses... but we've also put some equally terrible diseases in society's rear-view mirror.

[Dr David Thork]

People somehow forget that vaccines have eradicated terrible diseases off the face of the planet.

Incorrect.

Literally one disease was vaccinated off the planet. That was small pox. Literally one. Not diseases. Just disease.

Sure we still have cancer, aids, ALS and many more debilitating sicknesses... but we've also put some equally terrible diseases in society's rear-view mirror.

What are you talking about? Small pox. That is it. Literally not one other single disease and certainly never coronavirus. It won't be possible because it lives in wild animals ... exactly like TB which we also can't get rid of.

[Rama Set]

Vaccination programs have made mumps, measles, rubella and polio irrelevant to billions of people.

[Dr David Thork]

Vaccination programs have made mumps, measles, rubella and polio irrelevant to billions of people.

And that's probably the reason they haven't been eradicated. Imagine the money made from giving billion of people vaccines. Compared to the $0 received for vaccinating precisely nobody against small pox.

[Iceman]

People somehow forget that vaccines have eradicated terrible diseases off the face of the planet.

Incorrect.

Literally one disease was vaccinated off the planet. That was small pox. Literally one. Not diseases. Just disease.

Sure we still have cancer, aids, ALS and many more debilitating sicknesses... but we've also put some equally terrible diseases in society's rear-view mirror.

What are you talking about? Small pox. That is it. Literally not one other single disease and certainly never coronavirus. It won't be possible because it lives in wild animals ... exactly like TB which we also can't get rid of.

Well it's literally two, rinderpest being the second. But thanks to vaccinations, polio, measles, rubella, yellow fever are all things I dont have to worry about. Not to mention additional vaccines I can take as precautions for other things like tetanus, or drugs to reduce my risk of disease like malaria while travelling.

Eradication admittedly has a strict definition, and we might not eradicate covid, for the reasons you brought up... but with enough success and uptake of vaccines, we can make covid a forgotten word. And that's a prospect I look forward to.

[JSS]

But why am I putting them in danger if they've had the vaccine?
Is it because it's not 100% effective or are you talking about people who can't have it?
I haven't seen the evidence about long term damage for people who are asymptomatic by the way - I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I've just not seen it. But I'd suggest that that can't be known by definition for a new virus because no-one has had it long term.

Yes, it is not 100% effective. Nothing is 100% effective, and even one that is 95% does NOT mean you are immune. If you are exposed to it constantly every day, eventually you're going to get it.

That's why it's important for even healthy people to get it, you can still pass it on even to those that have been vaccinated.

Basically... it's all about transmission rates.  If the transmission rate on average is less than 1.0 it dies out, if it's greater it spreads.  So if on average the disease spreads to even 1.1 people for everyone that catches it, it's going to spread.  That's why you need in the upwards of 70% to 90% of the population to be vaccinated, to ensure that the spread gets under that 1.0 per person average.  Otherwise it's just going to keep killing people.

The math isn't exact, a lot is guesswork, but we know for sure that you need a HIGH percentage to take it. So every single person that doesn't take it pushes us closer to the pandemic staying out of control.

As for damage to people who are asymptomatic, here are some articles.

"In 20% of the patients, Nagel found scarring, indicating irreversible damage to the heart muscle. Even young, healthy, asymptomatic athletes are showing heart damage that was detected by scans months later."

 - https://www.biospace.com/article/sars-cov-2-causes-heart-damage-in-20-percent-of-people-with-mild-or-no-covid-19-symptoms/

"A trauma surgeon on the front lines of COVID-19 is finding lungs infected with the virus are more damaged than a smoker’s lung. She said it’s true even for asymptomatic cases."

 - https://www.cbs17.com/digital-stories/covid-19-infected-lungs-damaged-more-than-smokers-lung-doctor-says/

[Rama Set]

Vaccination programs have made mumps, measles, rubella and polio irrelevant to billions of people.

And that's probably the reason they haven't been eradicated. Imagine the money made from giving billion of people vaccines. Compared to the $0 received for vaccinating precisely nobody against small pox.

You don’t think people like you, Total Lackey and AATW complaining about the oh so massive infringement on their rights has something to do with it?

[Dr David Thork]

Well it's literally two, rinderpest being the second. But thanks to vaccinations, polio, measles, rubella, yellow fever are all things I dont have to worry about.

You never had to worry about rinderpest. It is a bovine disease.


Also why would you worry about yellow fever? Do you like in the Amazon basin or central Africa?

Vaccination programs have made mumps, measles, rubella and polio irrelevant to billions of people.

And that's probably the reason they haven't been eradicated. Imagine the money made from giving billion of people vaccines. Compared to the $0 received for vaccinating precisely nobody against small pox.

You don’t think people like you, Total Lackey and AATW complaining about the oh so massive infringement on their rights has something to do with it?

No.

I have been vaccinated for mumps, measles, rubella and polio. The vaccines were licensed, decades of testing has been done and if anything goes wrong, I can sue the pharma company because they haven't been given immunity from prosecution for those vaccines.

[JSS]

Literally one disease was vaccinated off the planet. That was small pox. Literally one. Not diseases. Just disease.

Well it's literally two, rinderpest being the second. But thanks to vaccinations, polio, measles, rubella, yellow fever are all things I dont have to worry about.

You never had to worry about rinderpest. It is a bovine disease.

Nice attempt at a dodge here. The second disease isn't a disease even though you even called it a disease, because nobody 'had to worry about it'. You don't even know that's true, maybe some of us are farmers and indeed had to worry about it.

Just admit you were wrong, it will feel better in the long run. Just rip that band-aid off!

[Dr David Thork]

I was like "What the hell is rinderpest?". And then I find out it doesn't effect humans. It should never have been in the conversation to begin with. So no, zero apology for that. It was a red herring.

[JSS]

I was like "What the hell is rinderpest?". And then I find out it doesn't effect humans. It should never have been in the conversation to begin with. So no, zero apology for that. It was a red herring.

Oh, I see.  You didn't know there were two disease eradicated when you said one.  It's not that you were wrong, you just didn't know the facts.

Nobody asked you to apologize, just admit you were wrong. How strange you think you need to apologize for being wrong... yet another piece of the puzzle. No wonder you are so desperately trying to avoid admitting it.

You are aware that there are diseases that don't affect humans, right?

[Lord Dave]

Thork: you do know that Corona is a type of SARS virus, one which has been studied for decades?
Remember swine flu?  Bird flu?  Thats the same family as Covid19.

So the vaccine thats been developed was made based on the nearly 2 decades worth of reasearch into that family of viruses.

[Rama Set]

Thork: you do know that Corona is a type of SARS virus, one which has been studied for decades?
Remember swine flu?  Bird flu?  Thats the same family as Covid19.

So the vaccine thats been developed was made based on the nearly 2 decades worth of reasearch into that family of viruses.

This. Thork doesn’t even really know what he is resisting.