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Messages - TheMatrix

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: What are the (flat Earth) stars?
« on: October 22, 2019, 07:33:11 PM »
So what is different about what your link says and what I said?  Take two lines from your link for example and compare with what I said.  I think you will find its the same.  I use slightly different words but that doesn't alter the meaning.

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Stars twinkle because … they’re so far away from Earth that, even through large telescopes, they appear only as pinpoints.

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Planets shine more steadily because … they’re closer to Earth and so appear not as pinpoints, but as tiny disks in our sky.

Anyway, what has that got to do with my original question... what are the stars according to FE theorists?

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: What are the (flat Earth) stars?
« on: October 22, 2019, 07:09:22 PM »
Because planets have measurable disks.  Stars are point sources of light owing to their great distance compared to their size.  Therefore all the light from a star is coming from the same spot on the sky which as you will appreciate is a lot more prone to turbulent distortion than a planet is where the light is spread over a small but non-point source.  Any source of light on the sky which is not a point source is known as an extended object.

The pockets or bubbles of air which are continually moving around in the air (along very short mean free paths) are smaller than the sizes of planetary disks and so the light from the is not affected by them in the same way.

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: What are the (flat Earth) stars?
« on: October 22, 2019, 05:12:42 PM »
Well out of those three I would imagine that FE theorists would favour 1 and 3 since they are based on nothing more than fantasy or faith.

The twinking effect of course has got nothing to do with the stars themselves but is due to the turbulent atmosphere. The twinkling effect is greatest for stars low down near the horizon as they light from those is passing through a thicker later of atmosphere based on the location of the observer.

I understand that the astrophysical account of the nature of the stars will be largely incompatible with the FE view of the stars and so most of that will be dismissed. However you cannot argue with direct observations and there has been more than enough research carried out into the nature of starlight to understand that the stars are indeed balls of gas which are self energising.

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: What are the (flat Earth) stars?
« on: October 22, 2019, 11:48:05 AM »
If I was after a purely poetic reply then that would be perfect.

Lets now try for a reply that actually tells me sonething useful.

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Flat Earth Theory / What are the (flat Earth) stars?
« on: October 21, 2019, 09:35:14 PM »
FE Wiki rather vagely describes the stars as 'luminous elements'.  Anyone on the FE side care to elaborate on what that means a bit?  What causes them to be luminous, how far away are they and why are some brighter than others?

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I just checked on heavens-above.com and while the ISS did make a couple of passes over Cadiz on Oct 3rd they did not coincide with the time the photo was taken. So definitely not the ISS.

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Michelson Morley and Stellar Parallax
« on: October 20, 2019, 10:53:16 PM »
A parallax is an angular measurement.  It would be hard to visualise a situation where you can have an angle which is negative. Over the course of a year, a close by star will show a change in position which plots out a circle. The angular diameter on the sky of that circle becomes the parallax. Unless you take one direction as positive and one direction as negative. A logical explanation for the cause of this pattern of movement, and its cycle length is that the orbiting Earth causes a slight shift in the stars apparent position. 

As regards negative parallaxes, the parallaxes of many, many stars have now been measured (to accuracies of just a few milliarc seconds) and so a few negative numbers will arise from analysis of the results when the margins of error are taken into consideration. That does not mean that the actual angles are negative. None of the nearest stars have ever given negative results as I'm sure you know.

It goes against the grain of FE theory which asserts that the Earth is motionless and marks the centre of the Universe. If the Earth is stationary and it is not the orbiting Earth around the Sun that causes the parallax shift, then what does?  Illusion or error does not come into it.


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Flat Earth Community / Re: I have questions
« on: October 20, 2019, 08:01:05 PM »
I'm certainly not trolling this thread. I am simply telling you what causes aurora. Just because I'm telling you something different to what you obviously believe, you accuse me of 'trolling'.  And don't bother sending any more links to theflatearthsociety because I'm not interested.

I've told you the facts, if you don't want to accept them then that's up to you.  End of.


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Flat Earth Community / Re: I have questions
« on: October 20, 2019, 07:50:03 PM »
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Here is the proof, the Aurora Borealis cannot be explained by an external stream of plasma/ions that are injected into the Earth's magnetic field:

Is this not something at you said?  If not then my apologies.

Where is this second Moon or Sun which orbits the Arctic then?  I for one have never heard of that idea?

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Flat Earth Community / Re: I have questions
« on: October 20, 2019, 07:24:02 PM »
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Here is the proof, the Aurora Borealis cannot be explained by an external stream of plasma/ions that are injected into the Earth's magnetic field:

Another page from your theaurorazone.com seems to suggest that they can...

https://www.theaurorazone.com/about-the-aurora/the-science-of-the-northern-lights/how-do-the-northern-lights-appear

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CME’s usually emanate from the more active areas of the Sun’s surface and they throw a stream of electronically charged solar particles known as Solar Wind into the vastness of space. It is when these particles are directed towards the Earth that we can see the Northern or Southern Lights three or four nights later.

There are also numerous other websites which you can search around for yourself which gives the same account for the cause of the aurora.  Why then do you say that they cannot be explained by an external stream of charged particles. The colours come from ionised atoms of oxygen and nitrogen among others.

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The Earth has a Moon which reflects the rays of the Sun: it is called Aurora.

No that's called Earthshine.  The Moon reflects white light if you hadn't noticed.  How would you get the colours we see in aurora if they were due to reflected light off the Moon?

Check for yourself.  Here is a typical link from our good old friend timeanddate.com

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/earthshine.html



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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Michelson Morley and Stellar Parallax
« on: October 20, 2019, 08:30:44 AM »
You know how science is based around making predictions? Well even as I was writing my post I was thinking 'I bet Tom replies to this and mentions something along the lines of negative parallax'. The three stars I mentioned are quite near by, near enough at any rate for the parallax angles to be measured accurately with the equipment available at the time.

I can tell from reading through the FE Wiki that it is not unusual for FE believers to dismiss this sort of evidence as 'illusion' or 'errors' or whatever and I would expect that.  You would naturally try to find alterative explanations for scientific experiments or observations which seemed to place any element of doubt on their accuracy. FE theorists say the Earth is stationary (and central) in the Universe and of course they would wouldn't they. They also say the stars are fixed in some heavenly dome above that flat Earth.  So how would you account for a tiny but measurable, repeating change in the position of some stars which coincides with the length of the year without resorting to the older and long since discarded idea of epicycles and such like? I know you will find one, of course you will but that has got to be backed up with directly observed evidence.

So the parallaxes of Alpha Centauri and 61 Cygni are large enough to be measured accurately and have always been positive since they were first measured in the 1830s. Alpha Centurus is only 4.3 lightyears away, hence its parallax is a tad over 1 arc second and 61 Cyg is 11.4 lightyears away so its parallax is a little under 0.3 arc seconds.

As for the Sagnac and Wang experiments, perhaps you would like to compare the description given in your FE Wiki page with that given in the mainstream wiki page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagnac_effect

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While Laue's explanation is based on inertial frames, Paul Langevin (1921, 1937) and others described the same effect when viewed from rotating reference frames (in both special and general relativity, see Born coordinates). So when the Sagnac effect should be described from the viewpoint of a corotating frame, one can use ordinary rotating cylindrical coordinates and apply them to the Minkowski metric, which results into the so-called Born metric or Langevin metric.[12][13][14] From these coordinates, one can derive the different arrival times of counter-propagating rays, an effect which was shown by Paul Langevin (1921).[15] Or when these coordinates are used to compute the global speed of light in rotating frames, different apparent light speeds are derived depending on the orientation, an effect which was shown by Langevin in another paper (1937).[16]

This does not contradict special relativity and the above explanation by von Laue that the speed of light is not affected by accelerations. Because this apparent variable light speed in rotating frames only arises if rotating coordinates are used, whereas if the Sagnac effect is described from the viewpoint of an external inertial coordinate frame the speed of light of course remains constant – so the Sagnac effect arises no matter whether one uses inertial coordinates (see the formulas in section § Theories below) or rotating coordinates (see the formulas in section § Reference frames below).

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Flat Earth Theory / Michelson Morley and Stellar Parallax
« on: October 19, 2019, 09:10:16 PM »
The Michelson Morley experiment was first performed in 1887. As is well known the purpose of the experiment was to measure the speed of light at various times during a year long period in order to try and detect subtle changes in the speed of light that could be caused by changes in the Earths orbital speed due to resistance caused by the 'ether'.  The result of the experiment was negative. That could be explained either if the Earth was stationary or if the ether didn't actually exist. The experiment has been retried several times since with equipment of increasing sensitivity. Each time the result has been consistent with the first. This remains the case down to an order of magnitude of 10^-17.

By 1840, some 47 years prior to the Michelson and Morley carrying out their first experiment, measurement of the parallax of three stars, Alpha Centuri (1.26"), 61 Cygni (0.31") and Vega (0.2619") had been confirmed. These stars were chosen because they were pleasingly bright in the case of Vega and Alpha Centuri and 61 Cygni showed a large proper motion. The measurement of the parallax provided direct observational evidence that the Earth was not stationary in space. It also allowed astronomers to determine with unprecedented accuracy the distances of each of these three stars.

FE theorists will insist that the ether does exist and so they will also claim that the lack of any detectable change in the speed of light during the course of the year (caused by the ether creating a 'drag' effect on the speed of the Earth) is explained by their belief that the Earth is stationary. However the measurement and confirmation of stellar parallax as described proves that it isn't.  So that means the MM experiment equally provides evidence that the ether does not exist. Why? because based on mainstream physics and Maxwells field equations, the ether is not needed.

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