Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #380 on: June 05, 2014, 04:44:18 AM »
Actually, they were two of Japan's largest cities. The morality of the nukes on Hiroshima & Nagasaki has been & remains a topic of hot dispute among scholars. There is something to be said for your pov, but there are equally good opposing pov. God doesn't kill because he can. God allows a group to triumph over another for various & sundry reasons stated in the Bible, that made perfect sense then, & still do, if your frame of reference is from w/i that cultural milieau. If it is not, you may not get it. Before you judge, just remember what I said about wars & death rates in the 'enlightened' XX Century. & the XXI appears to be gearing up for more of same.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #381 on: June 05, 2014, 05:07:11 AM »
Actually, they were two of Japan's largest cities. The morality of the nukes on Hiroshima & Nagasaki has been & remains a topic of hot dispute among scholars. There is something to be said for your pov, but there are equally good opposing pov. God doesn't kill because he can. God allows a group to triumph over another for various & sundry reasons stated in the Bible, that made perfect sense then, & still do, if your frame of reference is from w/i that cultural milieau. If it is not, you may not get it. Before you judge, just remember what I said about wars & death rates in the 'enlightened' XX Century. & the XXI appears to be gearing up for more of same.

The deaths are higher because the populations are higher.

Furthermore, God does kill because he can. In fact, anything God does is because God wants to do it. If God kills people, he wanted to, if there is evil in the world, God wants it to be there. This is why if such a God did exist, it does not deserve any sort of worship. Such a god is no better than any human.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #382 on: June 05, 2014, 05:13:42 AM »
God is a child playing a Sims game.
The Mastery.

Ghost of V

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #383 on: June 05, 2014, 06:04:19 AM »
Actually, the button was manually activated twice & two cities in Japan went bye-bye. Talk about killing innocents!

It wasn't really pushing buttons either. I believe they were dropped by a plane.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #384 on: June 05, 2014, 06:30:47 AM »
They were.
The Mastery.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #385 on: June 05, 2014, 06:47:57 AM »
God is a child playing a Sims game.

But who made the Sims game?

Ghost of V

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #386 on: June 05, 2014, 07:44:10 AM »
God is a child playing a Sims game.

But who made the Sims game?

God did. It's a predestination paradox.

Theoretically... It's possible.

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #387 on: June 05, 2014, 07:46:35 AM »
Quote
If any of you had ever read Exodus or Joshua, both texts have God explaining precisely why he has placed certain nations under ban. It may seem cruel to us. But it should be noted that the wars of the XX Century are estimated to have caused more deaths than all the wars of all the preceding centuries combined!

Not in terms of proportion of the population. If we were to go back in time and drop off some bombers, tanks, machine guns and missiles along with instruction manuals to iron-age Mesopotamia you can bet your bottom dollar that there'd barely be anyone left standing in Israel, Egypt or Babylon.

Even with the two world wars, the general rate of human violence and warfare is going down. As religion loses its grip we're becoming more peaceful, more humanitarian and more kind.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #388 on: June 05, 2014, 07:53:28 AM »
But most importantly, more euphoric. *tips fedora*
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

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Offline spoon

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #389 on: June 05, 2014, 11:46:50 AM »
In humans we call that psychopathy.

I dig the phrasing.
inb4 Blanko spoons a literally pizza

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #390 on: June 05, 2014, 12:08:56 PM »
Quote
If any of you had ever read Exodus or Joshua, both texts have God explaining precisely why he has placed certain nations under ban. It may seem cruel to us. But it should be noted that the wars of the XX Century are estimated to have caused more deaths than all the wars of all the preceding centuries combined!

Not in terms of proportion of the population. If we were to go back in time and drop off some bombers, tanks, machine guns and missiles along with instruction manuals to iron-age Mesopotamia you can bet your bottom dollar that there'd barely be anyone left standing in Israel, Egypt or Babylon.

Even with the two world wars, the general rate of human violence and warfare is going down. As religion loses its grip we're becoming more peaceful, more humanitarian and more kind.

Violence is declining because our society is wealthy and comfortable. If you hadn't eaten for a couple of days, your TV was broken and the broadband was disconnected you'd be beating your neighbour to death with a brick. I'd already got my brick ready just in case.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #391 on: June 05, 2014, 12:28:20 PM »
As I've indicated, the wars of the Bronze Age & those of today are mostly not religious matters, but rather, wars of territorial acquision or self-defence. Jews have never faught wars to make men Jewish. Although in acquiring or defending land, they may have believed God was on their side, nevertheless, that was NOT what the primary motive was.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 12:33:37 PM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

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Offline beardo

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #392 on: June 05, 2014, 12:32:15 PM »
They protected their jew gold.
The Mastery.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #393 on: June 05, 2014, 12:37:02 PM »
Well, of course we did, Silly! Until we could 'Jew down' the next poor unsuspecting schmuck that happens by?

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #394 on: June 05, 2014, 12:42:45 PM »
Quote
If any of you had ever read Exodus or Joshua, both texts have God explaining precisely why he has placed certain nations under ban. It may seem cruel to us. But it should be noted that the wars of the XX Century are estimated to have caused more deaths than all the wars of all the preceding centuries combined!

Not in terms of proportion of the population. If we were to go back in time and drop off some bombers, tanks, machine guns and missiles along with instruction manuals to iron-age Mesopotamia you can bet your bottom dollar that there'd barely be anyone left standing in Israel, Egypt or Babylon.

Even with the two world wars, the general rate of human violence and warfare is going down. As religion loses its grip we're becoming more peaceful, more humanitarian and more kind.

Violence is declining because our society is wealthy and comfortable. If you hadn't eaten for a couple of days, your TV was broken and the broadband was disconnected you'd be beating your neighbour to death with a brick. I'd already got my brick ready just in case.

regardless, to say we're more violent than in the days of David is just objectively untrue.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #395 on: June 05, 2014, 01:37:52 PM »
Actually, no, its not. Look @ Africa alone. Burma. Syria. Lebanon. Colombia. Ukraine. Xinjiang Province. Israel. Judea & Smaria. & then the non-state actors. Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb. Al Qaeda in various other places. Al Shabaab. Boko Haram. Islamic State of Iraq. Hamas. Hezbollah. The PLO. Shall I continue?

Rama Set

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #396 on: June 05, 2014, 01:54:34 PM »
Actually, no, its not. Look @ Africa alone. Burma. Syria. Lebanon. Colombia. Ukraine. Xinjiang Province. Israel. Judea & Smaria. & then the non-state actors. Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb. Al Qaeda in various other places. Al Shabaab. Boko Haram. Islamic State of Iraq. Hamas. Hezbollah. The PLO. Shall I continue?

That is a lot of names but does not speak to Ghost Spaghetti's argument at all.  We call this a Red Herring.

Have a watch:

https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #397 on: June 05, 2014, 02:11:05 PM »
Quote
Actually, no, its not. Look @ Africa alone. Burma. Syria. Lebanon. Colombia. Ukraine. Xinjiang Province. Israel. Judea & Smaria. & then the non-state actors. Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb. Al Qaeda in various other places. Al Shabaab. Boko Haram. Islamic State of Iraq. Hamas. Hezbollah. The PLO. Shall I continue?

Please do. most of those places listed have been in an almost ceaseless state of war for the past two millenia (Look at the Babylonian wars, the Akkadian wars, the Assyrian wars, the punic wars, the Trojan war, the lelantine war, the endless wars of Rome, the small but bloody slaughter of rival empires and city-states in south and central America, the tribal swars of Africa, the Qin wars in China) and those wars typically involved a greater percentage of the population. If the US army had an equivalent army to Rome, it would have legions tens of millions strong.. That China has a standing army of 1 million of a billion people shows how comparatively peaceful we are.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #398 on: June 05, 2014, 02:32:38 PM »
Shit, all it means is we're a bloody, nasty little species. & I almost forgot to mention the civil wars in LA, Chicago, NYC, San Francisco, San Diego, etc. The so-called 'gang-wars' are just as violent, & just as nasty, as what goes on in Somalia. As a professional historian, I see that men are still fighting for 3 things: money, power, & (w/ apologies to the ladies) pussy. Men have wanted these things since God made a help mate for Adam (or since men began to walk upright, depending on your point of view). We aren't more peaceful now. We're just better @ hiding the dead bodies.

Rama Set

Re: Atheism vs. religion
« Reply #399 on: June 05, 2014, 02:40:28 PM »
Shit, all it means is we're a bloody, nasty little species. & I almost forgot to mention the civil wars in LA, Chicago, NYC, San Francisco, San Diego, etc. The so-called 'gang-wars' are just as violent, & just as nasty, as what goes on in Somalia. As a professional historian, I see that men are still fighting for 3 things: money, power, & (w/ apologies to the ladies) pussy. Men have wanted these things since God made a help mate for Adam (or since men began to walk upright, depending on your point of view). We aren't more peaceful now. We're just better @ hiding the dead bodies.

That is a ridiculous assertion.  You have been provided with evidence that both homicide rates and state warfare has gone down.  You should provide something of substance.