The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Investigations => Topic started by: Roger G on December 19, 2017, 03:03:48 PM
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I've searched through the forums and looked at a few references to the Space shuttle generally, but can't find any explanations so am interested in the FE ideas about the last Columbia flight.
As the general FE position is that orbital space flight is impossible and the ISS is actually CGI generated, I wondered if I could get a few answers to some of these points:-
1) The mission with 7 astronauts on board was launched and according to NASA and other sources entered orbit and carried out experiments for 16 days, where did the shuttle go after launch?
2) If the mission was faked, where was the shuttle and crew during those 16 days?
3) What was the cause of the burning debris flying through the upper atmosphere caught on camera and radar exactly where the shuttle should have been on re-entry?
4) Where did the debris scattered over 2000 square miles of Texas come from?
5) If the flight was faked, where did the pieces of bodies recovered on the ground come from that matched the DNA of the Astronauts?.
6) If the crew weren't killed during the flight, when and why were they killed?
I look forward to some reasoned answers.
Roger
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I've searched through the forums and looked at a few references to the Space shuttle generally, but can't find any explanations so am interested in the FE ideas about the last Columbia flight.
As the general FE position is that orbital space flight is impossible and the ISS is actually CGI generated, I wondered if I could get a few answers to some of these points:-
1) The mission with 7 astronauts on board was launched and according to NASA and other sources entered orbit and carried out experiments for 16 days, where did the shuttle go after launch?
2) If the mission was faked, where was the shuttle and crew during those 16 days?
3) What was the cause of the burning debris flying through the upper atmosphere caught on camera and radar exactly where the shuttle should have been on re-entry?
4) Where did the debris scattered over 2000 square miles of Texas come from?
5) If the flight was faked, where did the pieces of bodies recovered on the ground come from that matched the DNA of the Astronauts?.
6) If the crew weren't killed during the flight, when and why were they killed?
I look forward to some reasoned answers.
Roger
As with all things conspiracy related there's bound to be a few different answers to each question. A video on this actually happened to be one of my first forays into NASA conspiracy. I'll do my best to post what I recall answers were from there, but I would be very curious to see if answers from the FE community match up with them at all.
1. Hidden on an island in the ocean somewhere. That particular video cited Caribbean as I recall.
2. See answer 1.
3. Controlled explosion of a shuttle like object created for this purpose.
4. See answer 3.
5. DNA match was faked as part of the conspiracy cover up. See answer 3 for where the debris came from.
6. They weren't killed but moved into witness protection style programs. I recall this video in particular having footage claiming to be of each of the astronauts moving about sometime after the supposed crash.
I might see if I can dig up the old video sometime, or one similar to it. Just because I remember the details rather well doesn't mean I'm gonna find it very easily, hehe. Also certainly curious to see if any of the FE crowd agree or disagree with any of this, and if they perhaps have their own favorite explanation and/or video for this one.
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The Columbia incident was a prop failure and NASA covered it up, just like they did with the Challenger in the 1980's.
Look at this investigation from 2015 showing that astronauts of the 1986 Space Shuttle Challenger disaster are still alive. 1986 NASA was really sloppy and had the astronauts move to a new town and go into a new field of work, but let them keep their name or use a variation of it, allowing them to be looked up on the internet in 2015. They were clearly not aware of how powerful the internet would become at that time.
Look at these pictures and come to your own conclusion.
Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20170401131908/https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2015/04/30/are-the-crew-members-of-1986-space-shuttle-challenger-still-alive/
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/richard-scobee.jpg)
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/michael_j_smith_compared.jpg)
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/ellison-and-claude-onizuka.jpg)
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/judith-resniks15.jpg?w=500&h=279)
What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?
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Notice the upper lip of the Judith Resnik woman:
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/judith-resniks2.jpg?w=500&h=236)
Also compare the voice and tone of the astronaut Judith Resnik and the professor Judith Resnik:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DYro3HWeZM
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What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?
A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.
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What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?
A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.
Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.
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Because the obvious thing to do when faking people’s death is allowing them to keep their name and get prominent jobs. Makes a ton of sense.
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Because the obvious thing to do when faking people’s death is allowing them to keep their name and get prominent jobs. Makes a ton of sense.
Changing government records about their identity would involve convincing another federal agency to go in on their scam. Sounds dangerous.
The author of the article I linked (https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2015/04/30/are-the-crew-members-of-1986-space-shuttle-challenger-still-alive/) says that when he was first researching this the astronauts were not even in the Social Security Death Index. An update is provided later in the year saying that after the doppleganger story went viral they mysteriously appeared in the SSDI.
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What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?
A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.
Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.
Oh brother - Tom, the garbage you believe never ceases to amaze me. I think your only requirement is that it fits your narrative. You didn't do ANY homework on this.
https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp (https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp)
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What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?
A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.
Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.
Oh brother - Tom, the garbage you believe never ceases to amaze me. I think your only requirement is that it fits your narrative. You didn't do ANY homework on this.
https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp (https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp)
I've seen that page. Its proof is based solely on the incredulity of "why would NASA be so stupid?" and says that Judith Resnik looks nothing like the other Judith Resnik, which is false.
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What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?
A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.
Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.
So you and the video poster are attempting to claim. I was simply responding to your attempt to engender disbelief in something by pointing out it's far more common than one would suspect at first reflection. You're appealing to personal incredulity that there could be so many doppelganger with the same name. To which I pointed out it's actually a surprisingly common occurrence in contradiction.
But really, she's about the only one that you're going "Wow, look how close they are!" with much beyond a rather poor image that shows similarities, and not exact likenesses. So we're not talking long odds here.
What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?
A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.
Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.
Oh brother - Tom, the garbage you believe never ceases to amaze me. I think your only requirement is that it fits your narrative. You didn't do ANY homework on this.
https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp (https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp)
I've seen that page. Its proof is based solely on the incredulity of "why would NASA be so stupid?" and says that Judith Resnik looks nothing like the other Judith Resnik, which is false.
I would note the image in the snopes article DOES have the two appearing quite dissimilar. As well each Astronaught has more than simply "why would they be so dumb?" backing up how the two cannot be the same person.
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What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?
A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.
Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.
Oh brother - Tom, the garbage you believe never ceases to amaze me. I think your only requirement is that it fits your narrative. You didn't do ANY homework on this.
https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp (https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp)
I've seen that page. Its proof is based solely on the incredulity of "why would NASA be so stupid?" and says that Judith Resnik looks nothing like the other Judith Resnik, which is false.
Did ya read it, because that isn't true. Your proof is based on name and some resemblance in certain cases. (which is easily picked apart upon closer examination) Pathetic really.
I wonder how Judy Reznik managed to get rid of her jaw-line? They are NOT the same people.
Oh, and SSDI:
First of all, the SSDI is not comprehensive: That database indexes most - but not all — persons who have died since 1936, had a Social Security Number (SSN), and whose death has been reported to the Social Security Administration. More important, this claim about missing records is not true: entries for at least four of the Challenger crewmembers can easily be found in SSDI searches:
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Did ya read it, because that isn't true. Your proof is based on name and some resemblance in certain cases. (which is easily picked apart upon closer examination) Pathetic really.
It's hard enough to find someone who looks exactly like you, let alone that person having the same name as you. Imagine how absurd that would be.
An identical facial tic puts the argument that it is a different person BEYOND the realm of absurdity.
Oh, and SSDI:
First of all, the SSDI is not comprehensive: That database indexes most - but not all — persons who have died since 1936, had a Social Security Number (SSN), and whose death has been reported to the Social Security Administration. More important, this claim about missing records is not true: entries for at least four of the Challenger crewmembers can easily be found in SSDI searches:
Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered up so much else.
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Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered so much else.
Right...like supposedly killing off a bunch of astronauts would go unnoticed. The wishful thinking on your part is HILARIOUS.
How about the fact that these other people had lives PRIOR to the shuttle exploding? They received educations, had jobs. This is public record stuff. I suppose NASA created those, but couldn't hide the astronauts' identities. Take my advice, if you receive an email from a Nigerian prince, it is fake, too.
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What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?
A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.
Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.
Oh brother - Tom, the garbage you believe never ceases to amaze me. I think your only requirement is that it fits your narrative. You didn't do ANY homework on this.
https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp (https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp)
I've seen that page. Its proof is based solely on the incredulity of "why would NASA be so stupid?" and says that Judith Resnik looks nothing like the other Judith Resnik, which is false.
Incorrect. The proof is also based on showing that the doppelgängers were doing something other than being astronauts at the time of the challenger incident.
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Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered so much else.
Right...like supposedly killing off a bunch of astronauts would go unnoticed. The wishful thinking on your part is HILARIOUS.
How about the fact that these other people had lives PRIOR to the shuttle exploding? They received educations, had jobs. This is public record stuff. I suppose NASA created those, but couldn't hide the astronauts' identities. Take my advice, if you receive an email from a Nigerian prince, it is fake, too.
Look at that first guy, Commander Francis Richard Scobee (https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/richard-scobee.jpg). Astronaut Francis Richard Scobee is has a bachelors in aerospace engineering. CEO Richard Scobee has an MBA (his only degree listed, which is odd since you need a bachelors to get a masters) and apparently doesn't even list the year of his graduation for his MBA (maybe to hide that he did it later in life): https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-scobee-23875418/
He also has a little animation on his Cows in Trees website, which was there before 2015, which features a cow on a rocket spiraling out of control.
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/cows-in-trees-challenger-explosion.jpg)
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Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered so much else.
Right...like supposedly killing off a bunch of astronauts would go unnoticed. The wishful thinking on your part is HILARIOUS.
How about the fact that these other people had lives PRIOR to the shuttle exploding? They received educations, had jobs. This is public record stuff. I suppose NASA created those, but couldn't hide the astronauts' identities. Take my advice, if you receive an email from a Nigerian prince, it is fake, too.
Look at that first guy, Richard Scobee. Astronaut Richard Scobee is has a bachelors in aerospace engineering. This guy has an MBA (his only degree listed, which is odd since you need a bachelors to get a masters) and apparently doesn't even list the year of his graduation for his MBA (maybe to hide that he did it later in life): https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-scobee-23875418/
He also has a little animation on his Cows in Trees website, which was there before 2015, which features a cow on a rocket spiraling out of control.
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/cows-in-trees-challenger-explosion.jpg)
Can you imagine what the nut cases have done to this poor guy? Otherwise, it would be funny.
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Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered so much else.
Right...like supposedly killing off a bunch of astronauts would go unnoticed. The wishful thinking on your part is HILARIOUS.
How about the fact that these other people had lives PRIOR to the shuttle exploding? They received educations, had jobs. This is public record stuff. I suppose NASA created those, but couldn't hide the astronauts' identities. Take my advice, if you receive an email from a Nigerian prince, it is fake, too.
Look at that first guy, Richard Scobee. Astronaut Richard Scobee is has a bachelors in aerospace engineering. This guy has an MBA (his only degree listed, which is odd since you need a bachelors to get a masters) and apparently doesn't even list the year of his graduation for his MBA (maybe to hide that he did it later in life): https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-scobee-23875418/
He also has a little animation on his Cows in Trees website, which was there before 2015, which features a cow on a rocket spiraling out of control.
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/cows-in-trees-challenger-explosion.jpg)
Holy crap, if only this guy had a Facebook page with his BS... Wait, HE DOES!
https://www.facebook.com/richard.scobee (https://www.facebook.com/richard.scobee)
I'm sure there is literally no chance he knew his name was the same as the astronaut and had some fun (in poor taste) with his company's logo. Derp. Keep dreaming, Tom...
What about all the others??
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Did ya read it, because that isn't true. Your proof is based on name and some resemblance in certain cases. (which is easily picked apart upon closer examination) Pathetic really.
It's hard enough to find someone who looks exactly like you, let alone that person having the same name as you. Imagine how absurd that would be.
An identical facial tic puts the argument that it is a different person BEYOND the realm of absurdity.
As I've already attempted to point out, your appeal to personal incredulity is just that. A logical fallacy, as the first part is oddly common for something you claim to be so terribly uncommon. As for the second bit, we have been presented with two still images. I'd bet if I got you to say a certain word I could get you to show off that exact same 'facial tic' in a still frame. In other words, more evidence is needed for this particular claim.
Oh, and SSDI:
First of all, the SSDI is not comprehensive: That database indexes most - but not all — persons who have died since 1936, had a Social Security Number (SSN), and whose death has been reported to the Social Security Administration. More important, this claim about missing records is not true: entries for at least four of the Challenger crewmembers can easily be found in SSDI searches:
Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered up so much else.
Why should we believe the author? He's made mistakes in that very article, so what reason has he given us to trust those photo's aren't doctored, and that he's telling us the truth about this? Did you witness the missing SSDI's yourself? Then why are you blindly trusting his claim?
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It’s yet another example of Tom’s doubke standard of evidence. He accepts something that agrees with his worldview readily, like this, Miles Mathis or Rowbotham; but scrutinizes well established sources as if they are homeless people shouting on the corner (e.g. his treatment of Euclidean geometry, NASA and the Cavendish experiment). Par for the course really.
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Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered so much else.
Right...like supposedly killing off a bunch of astronauts would go unnoticed. The wishful thinking on your part is HILARIOUS.
How about the fact that these other people had lives PRIOR to the shuttle exploding? They received educations, had jobs. This is public record stuff. I suppose NASA created those, but couldn't hide the astronauts' identities. Take my advice, if you receive an email from a Nigerian prince, it is fake, too.
Look at that first guy, Richard Scobee. Astronaut Richard Scobee is has a bachelors in aerospace engineering. This guy has an MBA (his only degree listed, which is odd since you need a bachelors to get a masters) and apparently doesn't even list the year of his graduation for his MBA (maybe to hide that he did it later in life): https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-scobee-23875418/
He also has a little animation on his Cows in Trees website, which was there before 2015, which features a cow on a rocket spiraling out of control.
https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/cows-in-trees-challenger-explosion.jpg
Holy crap, if only this guy had a Facebook page with his BS... Wait, HE DOES!
https://www.facebook.com/richard.scobee (https://www.facebook.com/richard.scobee)
There are still no dates on his listed degrees.
And, what, according to his work experience section this guy has only had two jobs in his entire life?
Can you imagine what the nut cases have done to this poor guy? Otherwise, it would be funny.
That was on his website BEFORE this doppelganger astronaut report was published (where I got the image from).
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Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered so much else.
Right...like supposedly killing off a bunch of astronauts would go unnoticed. The wishful thinking on your part is HILARIOUS.
How about the fact that these other people had lives PRIOR to the shuttle exploding? They received educations, had jobs. This is public record stuff. I suppose NASA created those, but couldn't hide the astronauts' identities. Take my advice, if you receive an email from a Nigerian prince, it is fake, too.
Look at that first guy, Richard Scobee. Astronaut Richard Scobee is has a bachelors in aerospace engineering. This guy has an MBA (his only degree listed, which is odd since you need a bachelors to get a masters) and apparently doesn't even list the year of his graduation for his MBA (maybe to hide that he did it later in life): https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-scobee-23875418/
He also has a little animation on his Cows in Trees website, which was there before 2015, which features a cow on a rocket spiraling out of control.
https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/cows-in-trees-challenger-explosion.jpg
Holy crap, if only this guy had a Facebook page with his BS... Wait, HE DOES!
https://www.facebook.com/richard.scobee (https://www.facebook.com/richard.scobee)
There are still no dates on his listed degrees.
And, what, according to his work experience section this guy has only had two jobs in his entire life?
No dates? Oh no, how terrible. Clearly that means the degrees are fake.
That covers about 36 years, and it's quite possible what he did prior has no bearing on his current skills. It's not like other CEO's and people on the site ALSO don't list their full past experience....oh wait.
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What about all the others??
Lets look at this guy, Michael J. Smith:
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/michael_j_smith_compared.jpg)
On the left is the Michael J. Smith, pilot of the Challenger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_J._Smith_(astronaut)), who was 40 years old when he died in the explosion. On the right is Michel J. Smith, a retired professor at the University of Wisconson--Madison (http://directory.engr.wisc.edu/ie/faculty/smith_michael). His email address is mjsmith@cae.wisc.edu
If astronaut Michael J Smith were still alive today he would be 72 years old. What do you know, there is a 72 year old Michael J. Smith (https://www.spokeo.com/Michael-Smith/Wisconsin/Middleton/p12676251131) whose listed addresses are Madison, Wisconsin and Middleton, Wisconsin (which is 16 minutes away).
Not only do they look the same, have the same name, and have the SAME MIDDLE INITIAL, there is a man of that name and age of the dead astronaut who lives in Madison, Wisconson.
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What about all the others??
Lets look at this guy, Michael J. Smith:
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/michael_j_smith_compared.jpg)
On the left is the Michael J. Smith, pilot of the Challenger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_J._Smith_(astronaut)), who was 40 years old when he died in the explosion. On the right is Michel J. Smith, a retired professor at the University of Wisconson--Madison (http://directory.engr.wisc.edu/ie/faculty/smith_michael). His email address is mjsmith@cae.wisc.edu
If astronaut Michael J Smith were still alive today he would be 72 years old. What do you know, there is a 72 year old Michael J. Smith (https://www.spokeo.com/Michael-Smith/Wisconsin/Middleton/p12676251131) whose listed addresses are Madison, Wisconsin and Middleton, Wisconsin (which is 16 minutes away).
Not only do they look the same, have the same name, and have the SAME MIDDLE INITIAL, there is a man of that name and age of the dead astronaut who lives in Madison, Wisconson.
They bear a passing resemblance true, although the Professor's ears appear to be a fair bit less prominent. Let's see.
Prof has '68 BA in pyschology, while Astro was in Naval academy halfway across the country during that time period.
Prof continued through 2 more degrees in '70 and then in '73 in WI, while Astro served as instructor and then in the Vietnam war during this time period.
Prof was awarded a public award for the three years on and around the year Astro was selected for being and astronaut.
Smith is an extremely common last name, same goes for Michael for a first name. I've got 100 of them in my area alone (one zip code in city about size of Madison), with about a dozen all having that middle initial. You're grasping at straws again.
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They bear a passing resemblance true, although the Professor's ears appear to be a fair bit less prominent. Let's see.
Ears can become less prominent with age. Look at young Donald Trump's ears (http://www.buzzfyre.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/donald-trump-young-7.jpg) and compare it to current Donald Trump
Prof has '68 BA in pyschology, while Astro was in Naval academy halfway across the country during that time period.
Prof continued through 2 more degrees in '70 and then in '73 in WI, while Astro served as instructor and then in the Vietnam war during this time period.
Prof was awarded a public award for the three years on and around the year Astro was selected for being and astronaut.
You do realize that you write your own biography and resume, right? Some of these dead astro-nots are more honest than others.
Smith is an extremely common last name, same goes for Michael for a first name. I've got 100 of them in my area alone (one zip code in city about size of Madison), with about a dozen all having that middle initial. You're grasping at straws again.
Of that dozen, how many are the same age as this dead astronaut? These aren't straws.
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You said it yourself, it would be difficult for NASA to enlist the aid of other public institutions in your proposed deception. You should corroborate the educational records of this doppelgänger. It is after all a matter of public record.
Wait if it is so difficult to get other public institutions to help, isn’t it unlikely that NASA could fake death records?
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They bear a passing resemblance true, although the Professor's ears appear to be a fair bit less prominent. Let's see.
Prof has '68 BA in pyschology, while Astro was in Naval academy halfway across the country during that time period.
Prof continued through 2 more degrees in '70 and then in '73 in WI, while Astro served as instructor and then in the Vietnam war during this time period.
Prof was awarded a public award for the three years on and around the year Astro was selected for being and astronaut.
Smith is an extremely common last name, same goes for Michael for a first name. I've got 100 of them in my area alone (one zip code in city about size of Madison), with about a dozen all having that middle initial. You're grasping at straws again.
You do realize that you write your own biography and resume, right? Some of these dead astro-nots are more honest than others.
Then show some evidence there wasn't someone in both of those things at the same time. It's your claim that they're the same person. Prove it with more than just a single photo showing they happen to have some similar features.
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Back to Judith Resnik. A few more factoids:
According to the one of the biggest people finding sites in the US, spokeo.com there are only 5 people with the name Judith Resnik in the entire United States. (https://www.spokeo.com/Judith-Resnik) Yale Law Professor Judith Resnik is the one who lives in New Haven, CT, where Yale is.
Of those five people with the name Judith Resnik, one of them happens to look exactly like the dead astronaut Judith Resnik?
On jwa.org we learn that NASA-Judith Resnik's mother, Sarah Resnik Belfer, was a "former legal secretary" (http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/resnik-judith).
On yourdictionary.com we learn that NASA-Judith Resnik's husband Michael Oldak (whom she met at Carnegie Mellon University and reportedly divorced in 1977) went to Law school at Georgetown University, Washington D.C and became a lawyer (http://biography.yourdictionary.com/judith-arlene-resnik).
"Michael D. Oldak - lawyer / Washington D.C (Carnegie Mellon University / Georgetown University) (https://www.lawyer.com/michael-oldak.html)"
We learn that the NASA-Judith (who would be 68 years old today) once lived in New York: "Judith Resnik was born in Akron, Ohio, in 1949 and lived in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Washington, D.C., and New York. (http://mybatmitzvahstory.org/cool-profiles/judith-resnik)"
On Spokeo we learn that the YALE-Law-School-Judith (age 67 according to Spokeo) formerly lived in New York (https://www.spokeo.com/Judith-Resnik/Connecticut/New-Haven/p40118944213).
Look at her go-to hand gestures when she is explaining something:
NASA-Judith
(http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/shuttle/1986-95/51L/crew/S85-40171.jpg)
YALE-Judith
(http://info.law.indiana.edu/pub/libs/images/usr/6634.jpg)
Is this likeness - and all the rest - purely coincidental?
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According to Wikipedia NASA-Judith Resnik's middle initial is A (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Resnik)
Now, what happens if we do a search in Google for "Judith A Resnik" Yale law professor ---
http://faculty.law.lsu.edu/ccorcos/lawhum/missionstatement.htm
Heilbrun, Carolyn G. and Judith A. Resnik, Convergences: Law, Literature, and Feminism, 99 Yale Law Journal 1913 (1990).
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They don’t look exactly alike and what do the other Judith Resnik’s look like anyway? You say that your preferred candidate looks the most alike but provide no comparative evidence.
That is hardly an uncommon hand gesture. How do you justify it being her “go to hand gesture”? How much footage, exactly have you studied of either person to make that statement.
Do you really think that both people having a relative who is in the legal profession is remotely rare? If so, how rare is it?
Do you really think it is surprising that two people lived in New York? One of the largest metropolises in the world?
They arent the same age, so unless you provide evidence that this is false you have not given compelling reason to think otherwise. Your own position is that facts like these are hard to fake.
To sum up you think it odd that two people of perhaps similar ethnic descent with the same name have similar but not identical features, had relatives in law, lives in New York and gesture with their hands? These are hardly uncanny similarities. Again I must ask you, why is it too much trouble to change one’s name but not to falsify birth, death and education records and also keep their family quiet?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3420606/30-years-Challenger-New-voice-astronauts-memorial.html
They were all recently in public commemorating their dead family. You should have accosted them with your profound truthiness and brought a shining light to the world.
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According to Wikipedia NASA-Judith Resnik's middle initial is A (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Resnik)
Now, what happens if we do a search in Google for "Judith A Resnik" Yale law professor ---
http://faculty.law.lsu.edu/ccorcos/lawhum/missionstatement.htm
Heilbrun, Carolyn G. and Judith A. Resnik, Convergences: Law, Literature, and Feminism, 99 Yale Law Journal 1913 (1990).
Tom, you've already been proven wrong. Reznik - look at the jaw line - completely different. Either she had surgery to replace her jaw or it isn't the same person.
As far as names go, I can go down to the court house and change mine anytime I want. But no, these supposedly dead astronauts have kept their names and are all over the internet. Your whole hypothesis is dumber than the flat Earth thing.
No one is going to accept your coincidental evidence as truth. That's a hole you dug yourself. You believe conspiracy theories over reality. It is your right to be wrong.
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They don’t look exactly alike and what do the other Judith Resnik’s look like anyway? You say that your preferred candidate looks the most alike but provide no comparative evidence.
I was mistaken about how many Judith Resniks there are.
https://www.spokeo.com/Judith-Resnik
Judith P Resnik 1 in New Haven CT is the Yale-Judith Resnik (was she not consistent about her middle initial at some point?)
Judith A Resnik 2 in Seabrook, TX are actually records of the old NASA-Judith Resnik, who lived in Seabrook, TX at one point according to google searches
Judith Resnik 3 is aged 59 and is listed as Judith C Pemberton after marriage. Resnik is her Maiden name.
Judith Resnik 4 and 5 are actually named Judy Resnik according to Spokeo
It is more like the only person going by the name of Judith Resnik (according to Spokeo, arguably the largest US people mining company) in the United States happens to look just like the dead astronaut Judith Resnik
The fact that she has listed her middle initial in some records in Spokeo's databases as P and is referenced with the middle initial of A elsewhere in her legal career, the same as the NASA-Judith, should raise some flags. When was the last time you forgot your middle name?
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Just because you don’t know the history of her initials doesn’t mean she is a dead astronaut. As has been pointed out, she doesn’t look just like the astronaut either. Find actual evidence rather than tenuous parallels.
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To your earlier question:
You said it yourself, it would be difficult for NASA to enlist the aid of other public institutions in your proposed deception. You should corroborate the educational records of this doppelgänger. It is after all a matter of public record.
Wait if it is so difficult to get other public institutions to help, isn’t it unlikely that NASA could fake death records?
When the doppleganger report came out people were starting to ask questions as to why none of the astronauts were in the SSDI death records. In response NASA would have likely called up the SSDI office and told them that they made a mistake and that they need to get these astronauts in there because its making the agency look bad. That is not necessarily asking another federal agency to engage in conspiracy with you, like attaining alternative identities would require.
Some time later the names were added to the SSDI records and the author of the doppelganger report made an edit to his website stating that.
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To your earlier question:
You said it yourself, it would be difficult for NASA to enlist the aid of other public institutions in your proposed deception. You should corroborate the educational records of this doppelgänger. It is after all a matter of public record.
Wait if it is so difficult to get other public institutions to help, isn’t it unlikely that NASA could fake death records?
When the doppleganger report came out people were starting to ask questions as to why none of the astronauts were in the SSDI death records. In response NASA would have likely called up the SSDI office and told them that they made a mistake and that they need to get these astronauts in there because its making the agency look bad. That is not necessarily asking another federal agency to engage in conspiracy with you, like attaining alternative identities would require.
Some time later the names were added to the SSDI records and the author of the doppelganger report made an edit to his website stating that.
Because that is way easier than having them change their names. LMAO, this is just so ridiculous. Reznik is not the same person since the two women have different bone structure, but you ignore that.
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Because that is way easier than having them change their names. LMAO, this is just so ridiculous. Reznik is not the same person since the two women have different bone structure, but you ignore that.
It's not a simple automatic process to change your name. A court is going to review you and all the details to make sure you are not trying to evade US or international law or anything like that.
Look at the California process:
http://www.courts.ca.gov/22489.htm
The court process of getting a court order after filing a Petition for Change of Name can take up to 3 months. First, you file your petition. Then, you will get a court date between 6 and 12 weeks away. If you follow all the required steps and the court approves your request, you will get a court order called a "decree" changing your name. Some courts are busier than others and it may take longer. Make sure you read the instructions carefully. Some apply a little differently if you are changing your name to conform to your gender identity, or in other special situations. It is all explained in each of the steps below, so make sure you read everything.
http://www.courts.ca.gov/1054.htm#acc3161
Q: Why would a judge not let me change my name?
A: The main reasons why a judge would not agree to change your name are:
If the judge finds that you are changing your name to commit fraud, or
If the judge finds that you are changing your name to hide from the law or the police or for some other illegal reason.
If you are on probation or parole, the judge may not agree to change your name, unless your probation or parole officer is aware of your change of name and gives written consent. If you are incarcerated in a California state prison, the Secretary of the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation has to give permission to the court to let you change your name. If you are incarcerated in federal prison, get permission from the Director of the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
See the bolded above. Would NASA really want these astronauts to be reviewed by a judicial system?
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Because that is way easier than having them change their names. LMAO, this is just so ridiculous. Reznik is not the same person since the two women have different bone structure, but you ignore that.
It's not a simple automatic process to change your name. A court is going to review you and all the details to make sure you are not trying to evade US or international law or anything like that.
http://www.courts.ca.gov/selfhelp-namechange.htm
With a court order you can change your legal name on government-issued identification documents such as your driver's license, passport, and social security card.
http://www.courts.ca.gov/22489.htm
The court process of getting a court order after filing a Petition for Change of Name can take up to 3 months. First, you file your petition. Then, you will get a court date between 6 and 12 weeks away. If you follow all the required steps and the court approves your request, you will get a court order called a "decree" changing your name. Some courts are busier than others and it may take longer. Make sure you read the instructions carefully. Some apply a little differently if you are changing your name to conform to your gender identity, or in other special situations. It is all explained in each of the steps below, so make sure you read everything.
Would NASA really want these astronauts to be reviewed by a judicial system?
You should post the law in the states where these people live. Would they want to involve the SSA?? Again, you are making assumptions that you would NEVER accept from anyone else. The lady's face has a different bone structure. Case closed.
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BTW, living Judy Reznik was involved in a case in the Supreme Court and has testified in front of Congress! That is a great way to stay anonymous. Go home, Tom. You're drunk.
https://law.yale.edu/judith-resnik (https://law.yale.edu/judith-resnik)
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To your earlier question:
You said it yourself, it would be difficult for NASA to enlist the aid of other public institutions in your proposed deception. You should corroborate the educational records of this doppelgänger. It is after all a matter of public record.
Wait if it is so difficult to get other public institutions to help, isn’t it unlikely that NASA could fake death records?
When the doppleganger report came out people were starting to ask questions as to why none of the astronauts were in the SSDI death records. In response NASA would have likely called up the SSDI office and told them that they made a mistake and that they need to get these astronauts in there because its making the agency look bad. That is not necessarily asking another federal agency to engage in conspiracy with you, like attaining alternative identities would require.
Some time later the names were added to the SSDI records and the author of the doppelganger report made an edit to his website stating that.
Why do you think the SSA would add a name to their official record based on a simple phone call? It’s not a simple automatic process to report a death.
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They don’t look exactly alike and what do the other Judith Resnik’s look like anyway? You say that your preferred candidate looks the most alike but provide no comparative evidence.
I was mistaken about how many Judith Resniks there are.
https://www.spokeo.com/Judith-Resnik
Judith P Resnik 1 in New Haven CT is the Yale-Judith Resnik (was she not consistent about her middle initial at some point?)
Judith A Resnik 2 in Seabrook, TX are actually records of the old NASA-Judith Resnik, who lived in Seabrook, TX at one point according to google searches
Judith Resnik 3 is aged 59 and is listed as Judith C Pemberton after marriage. Resnik is her Maiden name.
Judith Resnik 4 and 5 are actually named Judy Resnik according to Spokeo
It is more like the only person going by the name of Judith Resnik (according to Spokeo, arguably the largest US people mining company) in the United States happens to look just like the dead astronaut Judith Resnik
The fact that she has listed her middle initial in some records in Spokeo's databases as P and is referenced with the middle initial of A elsewhere in her legal career, the same as the NASA-Judith, should raise some flags. When was the last time you forgot your middle name?
White pages search gives me 5 Judith Resnik's, and about a dozen Judith Resnick's alive today. So you're claim is already false, sorry Spokeo.
To your earlier question:
You said it yourself, it would be difficult for NASA to enlist the aid of other public institutions in your proposed deception. You should corroborate the educational records of this doppelgänger. It is after all a matter of public record.
Wait if it is so difficult to get other public institutions to help, isn’t it unlikely that NASA could fake death records?
When the doppleganger report came out people were starting to ask questions as to why none of the astronauts were in the SSDI death records. In response NASA would have likely called up the SSDI office and told them that they made a mistake and that they need to get these astronauts in there because its making the agency look bad. That is not necessarily asking another federal agency to engage in conspiracy with you, like attaining alternative identities would require.
Some time later the names were added to the SSDI records and the author of the doppelganger report made an edit to his website stating that.
Proof? Evidence? We have only the claim of a single report, whose claims are already called into question because of inaccuracies in that very report, to go off of on this. Once again, have you any evidence beyond this one man's word that they didn't exist at the time of it's original publication? If so, why are you taking him at his word, when you wouldn't take nearly anyone else on this site at their's?
Also, I just want to point out the wiki also has you subscribing to the theory that Thomas Baron (https://wiki.tfes.org/Thomas_Baron) was killed for being ready to speak out. If they're willing to kill a man to keep things secret, why the hell would they leave these 6 alive after claiming they were killed? Seems a far simpler answer that they would have simply killed them all themselves, does it not?
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All Right. Back to Richard Scobee:
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/richard-scobee.jpg)
Take a look at NASA-Francis Richard Scobee's wife June Scobee (source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3417755/Widow-commander-died-aboard-space-shuttle-Challenger-speaks-tragedy-shocked-nation-30-years-ago.html)):
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/26/17/3098DFB800000578-3417755-image-a-22_1453830369645.jpg)
Now compare with CEO-Richard Scobee's wife Linda Scobee on Facebook:
(https://i.imgur.com/qRZrc8F.png)
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Here are some more pictures from her Facebook page I will suggest we save before they take them down:
https://i.imgur.com/kM03wm0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SeNeZ0F.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/595DLGw.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8tGGZCw.jpg
Shall we say that the matter is settled?
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Also, I just want to point out the wiki also has you subscribing to the theory that Thomas Baron (https://wiki.tfes.org/Thomas_Baron) was killed for being ready to speak out. If they're willing to kill a man to keep things secret, why the hell would they leave these 6 alive after claiming they were killed? Seems a far simpler answer that they would have simply killed them all themselves, does it not?
The difference is that Thomas Baron was actively trying to get Apollo shut down by Congress and the Columbia astronauts were NASA loyalists in a bad spot not of their doing. Does it make sense why their lives would be spared?
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Here are some more pictures from her Facebook page I will suggest we save before they take them down:
https://i.imgur.com/595DLGw.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kM03wm0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SeNeZ0F.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8tGGZCw.jpg
Shall we say that the matter is settled?
No. We shall not.
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Also, I just want to point out the wiki also has you subscribing to the theory that Thomas Baron (https://wiki.tfes.org/Thomas_Baron) was killed for being ready to speak out. If they're willing to kill a man to keep things secret, why the hell would they leave these 6 alive after claiming they were killed? Seems a far simpler answer that they would have simply killed them all themselves, does it not?
The difference is that Thomas Baron was actively trying to get Apollo shut down by Congress and the Columbia astronauts were NASA loyalists in a bad spot not of their doing.
Evidence?
Does it make sense why their lives would be spared?
Maybe in a Hollywood sort of way. It doesn’t matter anyway. Presenting us photos of different people and declaring them the same person is not sufficient to make your case.
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No. We shall not.
We have a Francis Richard Scobee doppleganger, and now we see that CEO-Scobee's wife is a look-a-like to NASA-Scobee's wife. What an amazing series of coincidences. Same name, same face, same wife...
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No. We shall not.
We have a Francis Richard Scobee doppleganger, and now we see that CEO-Scobee's wife is a look-a-like to NASA-Scobee's wife. Any further denial is now foolish.
She isn't a lookalike. This is Richard Scobee's widow:
(https://www.challenger.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/JSR.jpg)
She doesn't look like the woman you posted photos of. I ran their photos through www.twinsornot.net as well and got a 39% correlation between their faces. Now, can you please extend the conspiracy to women pretending to be wives, or women impersonating widows? That would be awesome.
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Also, I just want to point out the wiki also has you subscribing to the theory that Thomas Baron (https://wiki.tfes.org/Thomas_Baron) was killed for being ready to speak out. If they're willing to kill a man to keep things secret, why the hell would they leave these 6 alive after claiming they were killed? Seems a far simpler answer that they would have simply killed them all themselves, does it not?
The difference is that Thomas Baron was actively trying to get Apollo shut down by Congress and the Columbia astronauts were NASA loyalists in a bad spot not of their doing. Does it make sense why their lives would be spared?
Nope, none at all. There's no reason not to quietly do away with them unless this is a Hollywood movie. It's funny in a way, you're assuming a group that has managed to pull the wool over basically the entire world, is stupid enough (and not cut throat enough) to just leave these people alive as loose ends. You're giving them the qualities of a Hollywood villain, because they have to be that incompetent. But they somehow arranged a train to run over Thomas Baron. >.> Sure.
No. We shall not.
We have a Francis Richard Scobee doppleganger, and now we see that CEO-Scobee's wife is a look-a-like to NASA-Scobee's wife. What an amazing series of coincidences. Same name, same face, same wife...
Holy crap, a blonde blue eyed woman can look similar to another blonde blue eyed woman with the same last name, and thus potentially similar lineage. Who would have guessed. Also, for the record, June Scobee Rodgers (you know, the dead astronaut's wife) is alive and well. https://www.facebook.com/ScobeeRodgers/
Your evidence for this conspiracy appears to boil down to "well damn this guy looks a lot like this guy over here" and supposing people smart enough and competent enough to kill someone with a train in an apparent accident thought leaving loose ends like this around would be alright, when half of them have become extremely public figures. Do you have anything more concrete than what amounts to hearsay?
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I proved you a fool on Reznik, so now you more onto someone else. The gig is up, no one believes you. Moving on...
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It’s yet another example of Tom’s double standard of evidence. He accepts something that agrees with his worldview readily, like this, Miles Mathis or Rowbotham; but scrutinizes well established sources as if they are homeless people shouting on the corner (e.g. his treatment of Euclidean geometry, NASA and the Cavendish experiment). Par for the course really.
Well, quite.
All the pictures of earth showing it to be round are declared to be "fake" with no backup to that assertion at all.
But these pictures which fit the agenda are clearly real and these are definitely the same people as "died" in the Challenger disaster.
The confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance are strong with this one.
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So after starting this thread, I got banned for making an innocuous tongue in cheek comment in another thread, but when I return here I find that my thread about the COLUMBIA Tragedy has been derailed by Tom into a fantasy conspiracy about the CHALLENGER tragedy.
Can we get it back on track please and respond to my original question about what happened to Columbia? Is there another stack of photos of doppelgangers that don't look like the originals and ridiculous theories regarding the Columbia Astronauts. There is a lot more to cover up there, with a successful launch and orbital mission, plus about 40% of the shuttle and body parts spread over 2000 square miles of Texas. It would also be nice to have an FE other than Tom just for once to post some interesting ideas.
Roger
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I know there are other fe believers here on the site, but in my short time reading and following threads, you could be excused for thinking that Tom Bishop is the only one active at this time. Aside from Junker whom would appear to mainly monitor conversation as an administrator.
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In my opinion, the conspiracy that the Challenger and Columbia crews were hidden and their deaths were faked is one of the most offensive, outlandish conspiracies out there. Not only is the idea of this just ridiculous, the "evidence" is far-reaching and takes the most out-there conspiracy theorists to buy it.
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The worst part of this thread? That Tom publishes emails, Facebook pages, and personal information. I can't imagine what kind of crazy contacts these innocent people have had.
No morals whatsoever Tom Bishop. The people should talk to lawyers and sue you and the other wackos that publish this crap.