I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« on: January 30, 2014, 04:19:08 PM »
tl;dr: I just don't see the point in starting these boards if all of the people who know the most about FET almost exclusively restrict their posts to threads about the NFL and Star Trek.

What exactly are y'all planning on saying in the press release?  "New FES splinters from old and starts forum for discussing Star Trek and Bitcoin."  So far, that's about the sum of it.

I get that these new boards were founded by users who were on .org for a very long time and who discussed FET with others so much that it got old.  And, I get that these users grew tired of having the same debate/argument over and over again.  That makes perfect sense.  But if this site contains only (or mostly) FEB-ers who explicitly look down on posting about FET (Thork) because it's too lame or easy or tiresome or whatever, then why not just start a social club and ditch the FES aspect of it all?  What's the point?

My sarcastic tone aside, this is a genuine suggestion.  And hopefully it's obvious that this isn't a TK-style plea for attention to my posts since I basically only post here once a week and only to argue with Tom.  The people who know the most about this subject and who have the most to add should use the upper boards as a way to advance that knowledge.  Maybe this requires a fresh outlook, attitude, or process for the upper boards.  Maybe they need a new directive or function.  I dunno.  It just seems silly to me to start a new FES and then never really discuss FET.

e: I feel like it's worth adding that this isn't at all meant to be a OMG U DOODS SUCK post.  There is a lot to like about the new site and the new leadership.  Y'all are actually proactive and appear to be advancing a real agenda, and that's definitely laudable.  And, the new site itself obviously runs much better than .org now that people are actually running and paying attention to the site.  But once those things start working and you start bringing new people to these boards, what are they going to see?  What is someone who is directed by your press release to this site going to see?  They're going to see a few random, disjointed threads that are sometimes only tangentially related to FET (you can blame me for at least one of those), and then a bunch of threads about random stuff.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 04:26:41 PM by garygreen »
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Offline Tintagel

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2014, 04:51:33 PM »
tl;dr: I just don't see the point in starting these boards if all of the people who know the most about FET almost exclusively restrict their posts to threads about the NFL and Star Trek.
I agree, and have also said as much, but it still bears repeating.  I'm trying to foster as much upper fora activity as I can, as are some of our other serious theorists.  Unfortunately the lower fora still dominate.  I don't *know* that it's giving newcomers the impression that we're less serious about FET than the other site, but I'd probably infer that were I a noob. 

I'm just not sure what to do about it beyond keeping as many Flat Earth discussions alive as I can on the upper fora.  Making the lower fora invisible to guests would perhaps help to shift the focus?  I don't like that idea either, but I've no experience as an admin, so I'm just throwing out ideas.

Offline Blanko

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2014, 06:12:21 PM »
People who aren't discussing FET now weren't discussing it on the old boards either. I haven't so far seen a major difference, other than that the old boards obviously have a large backlog of discussions and the top dogs haven't moved over (who are barely active now as is).

Anyway, I don't really see a major issue here. It's just how this place works, people check it out for the weird curiosity that is FET, and they stay for the community. If we don't accommodate both aspects of it, this dynamic wouldn't work and we'd likely end up with empty boards on both sides.

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Offline Tau

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2014, 06:21:39 PM »
The difference is essentially that anyone can be involved in a discussion in the lower fora, whereas in the upper fora you need at least one RE'er and at least one FE'er who are interested in discussing the topic at hand. Because of that, discussions in the upper fora will necessarily go more slowly than discussions in the lower fora. That doesn't, however, mean that they aren't happening. They're just moving at a snail's pace because no RE'ers are making new threads and the FE'ers aren't paying as much attention as we ought to be.

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 06:24:42 PM »
The difference is essentially that anyone can be involved in a discussion in the lower fora, whereas in the upper fora you need at least one RE'er and at least one FE'er who are interested in discussing the topic at hand. Because of that, discussions in the upper fora will necessarily go more slowly than discussions in the lower fora. That doesn't, however, mean that they aren't happening. They're just moving at a snail's pace because no RE'ers are making new threads and the FE'ers aren't paying as much attention as we ought to be.



I am not sure why FEers never discuss the finer points of their theories together in the upper fora.  It does not have to always be discussions between REers and FEers.  Some FEers do not agree with the AWT, for example.  Why don't you guys ever debate its accuracy and relevance?

Thork

Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2014, 07:37:39 PM »
The difference is essentially that anyone can be involved in a discussion in the lower fora, whereas in the upper fora you need at least one RE'er and at least one FE'er who are interested in discussing the topic at hand. Because of that, discussions in the upper fora will necessarily go more slowly than discussions in the lower fora. That doesn't, however, mean that they aren't happening. They're just moving at a snail's pace because no RE'ers are making new threads and the FE'ers aren't paying as much attention as we ought to be.



I am not sure why FEers never discuss the finer points of their theories together in the upper fora.  It does not have to always be discussions between REers and FEers.  Some FEers do not agree with the AWT, for example.  Why don't you guys ever debate its accuracy and relevance?
How do we do that without someone like Markjo interjecting every other post? Besides, we all know what each other think. we read the threads even if we don't participate in them. What is the point in me scrutinising Tom Bishop when there are 5 RErs interrogating him already?

But if this site contains only (or mostly) FEB-ers who explicitly look down on posting about FET (Thork) because it's too lame or easy or tiresome or whatever, then why not just start a social club and ditch the FES aspect of it all?  What's the point?
For me its about my time. Its easy to have a casual conversation in the lower fora. I read something and reply as I'm doing now. However if I make a post in the upper boards I get asked for sources,diagrams and calculations and things that take a while. It might take 15 mins for every reply in the upper boards. It takes one minute in the lower boards. If I have a few hours to kill, I'll go in the upper boards. But increasingly I don't have that kind of time.

Rama Set

Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2014, 07:42:50 PM »
How do we do that without someone like Markjo interjecting every other post? Besides, we all know what each other think. we read the threads even if we don't participate in them. What is the point in me scrutinising Tom Bishop when there are 5 RErs interrogating him already?

Don't take this the wrong way, but this line of thinking comes off as an excuse to me.  I constantly see FEBers talking about research and such but I rarely see the results of this research posted.  Posting research results is a good way to engage other FEBers.

As to dealing with REers who come on like gangbusters, I don't know what to say except make the conversations technical enough that it will be difficult for them to interject or ignore them until they get the hint?


Thork

Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 07:55:58 PM »
Posting research results is a good way to engage other FEBers.
we post much of this in the repository. You can start a thread on anything you see.

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Offline Hoppy

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2014, 08:46:19 PM »
The difference is essentially that anyone can be involved in a discussion in the lower fora, whereas in the upper fora you need at least one RE'er and at least one FE'er who are interested in discussing the topic at hand. Because of that, discussions in the upper fora will necessarily go more slowly than discussions in the lower fora. That doesn't, however, mean that they aren't happening. They're just moving at a snail's pace because no RE'ers are making new threads and the FE'ers aren't paying as much attention as we ought to be.



I am not sure why FEers never discuss the finer points of their theories together in the upper fora.  It does not have to always be discussions between REers and FEers.  Some FEers do not agree with the AWT, for example.  Why don't you guys ever debate its accuracy and relevance?
How do we do that without someone like Markjo interjecting every other post? Besides, we all know what each other think. we read the threads even if we don't participate in them. What is the point in me scrutinising Tom Bishop when there are 5 RErs interrogating him already?

But if this site contains only (or mostly) FEB-ers who explicitly look down on posting about FET (Thork) because it's too lame or easy or tiresome or whatever, then why not just start a social club and ditch the FES aspect of it all?  What's the point?
For me its about my time. Its easy to have a casual conversation in the lower fora. I read something and reply as I'm doing now. However if I make a post in the upper boards I get asked for sources,diagrams and calculations and things that take a while. It might take 15 mins for every reply in the upper boards. It takes one minute in the lower boards. If I have a few hours to kill, I'll go in the upper boards. But increasingly I don't have that kind of time.
This shouldn't be too much work for a member of the Zetetic Council.
God is real.

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2014, 08:51:52 PM »
This shouldn't be too much work for a member of the Zetetic Council.
QFT.

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2014, 08:53:24 PM »
People who aren't discussing FET now weren't discussing it on the old boards either. I haven't so far seen a major difference, other than that the old boards obviously have a large backlog of discussions and the top dogs haven't moved over (who are barely active now as is).

Anyway, I don't really see a major issue here. It's just how this place works, people check it out for the weird curiosity that is FET, and they stay for the community. If we don't accommodate both aspects of it, this dynamic wouldn't work and we'd likely end up with empty boards on both sides.

"Weird curiosity?"  Is that what you think we are?  Perhaps that happens with some people, but some of us (myself included) are quite serious.

Offline Blanko

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2014, 09:05:02 PM »
People who aren't discussing FET now weren't discussing it on the old boards either. I haven't so far seen a major difference, other than that the old boards obviously have a large backlog of discussions and the top dogs haven't moved over (who are barely active now as is).

Anyway, I don't really see a major issue here. It's just how this place works, people check it out for the weird curiosity that is FET, and they stay for the community. If we don't accommodate both aspects of it, this dynamic wouldn't work and we'd likely end up with empty boards on both sides.

"Weird curiosity?"  Is that what you think we are?  Perhaps that happens with some people, but some of us (myself included) are quite serious.

I was talking about noobs.

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2014, 09:05:59 PM »
People who aren't discussing FET now weren't discussing it on the old boards either. I haven't so far seen a major difference, other than that the old boards obviously have a large backlog of discussions and the top dogs haven't moved over (who are barely active now as is).

Anyway, I don't really see a major issue here. It's just how this place works, people check it out for the weird curiosity that is FET, and they stay for the community. If we don't accommodate both aspects of it, this dynamic wouldn't work and we'd likely end up with empty boards on both sides.

"Weird curiosity?"  Is that what you think we are?  Perhaps that happens with some people, but some of us (myself included) are quite serious.

I was talking about noobs.

Fair enough.  Withdrawn. :)

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2014, 10:19:10 PM »
I think the whole Zetetic Council thing is becoming a huge distraction that's taking away from potential FET discussions.

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Offline markjo

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2014, 11:45:07 PM »
I am not sure why FEers never discuss the finer points of their theories together in the upper fora.  It does not have to always be discussions between REers and FEers.  Some FEers do not agree with the AWT, for example.  Why don't you guys ever debate its accuracy and relevance?
How do we do that without someone like Markjo interjecting every other post?
How will you ever know unless you try?  Contrary to popular belief, I don't post in every FET discussion thread.
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Offline Tintagel

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2014, 12:32:48 AM »
I think the whole Zetetic Council thing is becoming a huge distraction that's taking away from potential FET discussions.
The ZC is a necessary part of our reorganization, I think, and once things get moving I think they'll do a lot of good for us.  It's a shame some of its members can't be bothered to actually promote / discuss FET on this site, though.

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2014, 12:47:03 PM »
I don't even have the upper fora open. I stopped posting there sometime after adopting the 'Chris Spaghetti' mantle.

The arguments have been had, the conversations exhausted, the noobs are predictale, the science inconsistent, and I'd rather goad Rushy into a ten-hour lecture on his monopoly money than explain how a compass works for the umpteenth time to someone who has that picture of a boat falling off the world as their avatar.

Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2014, 11:02:38 PM »
I think the whole Zetetic Council thing is becoming a huge distraction that's taking away from potential FET discussions.
Wait, people are actually paying attention to that?
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2014, 05:22:59 AM »
Thing is this is a society. Not a lecture group.
The ZC should be driving the Uppers though as that was one of the things they were here for. Thork if you dont have the time for it then perhaps you are not suitable for the role? As passionate as you are dont you think its not good to hold a position that somebody may put to better use?
What we need is more angry rants and who you would hit posts.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: I suggest that you discuss the Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2014, 05:25:49 PM »
Gary, if you want more discussion about Flat Earth Theory, then I would suggest starting some threads. From the threads I've seen in the upper foura so far, people seem willing to engage in discussion. It is not that there are lack of people willing to talk to you.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 04:58:16 PM by Tom Bishop »