1741

Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs

« on: June 03, 2021, 07:09:52 PM »

I never stated his/her testimony was bogus.

Quit lying.

You most certainly did.  After being given a firsthand account, you continued with your narrative of:

Lol "Everyone is Wrong and LiEeInG"

with respect to any information regarding whether or not ICBMs exist.  That's a direct assertion that RonJ's testimony was bogus.

Bye now.

I believe we were talking about whether the Republican Legislature in the states were being nefarious about the audits. If it was found that they lied about audits, or audits in the past, that would be evidence against them. In that case we had Rama Set calling everything that disagreed with him to be wrong or a lie.

In this case we do have evidence that Russia has lied about ICBM technologies, with you summarily declaring that there is no evidence of them being nefarious about ICBMs. Quite the opposite of your portrait of the situation.

1742

Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs

« on: June 03, 2021, 01:36:00 AM »

I didn't say that the article proved that all the ICBMs were fake. What I said about the article was as follows:

It is generally accepted that Russia did fake a lot of stuff during the Cold War to pretend that they had more technological prowess than they did. During the Cold War, Russia went around parading fake ICBMs for decades:

You didn't even disagree with this assessment, and have accepted it, desperately moving the goal post now to demanding that the article proves that all the ICBMs are fake.

1743

Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs

« on: June 02, 2021, 10:30:31 PM »

In the article they only have sources with testimonials of the fake missiles.

What a desperate position you guys are now in to have argue that known liars are truthful sometimes. 

From the same AP article you cited:

"It wasn’t until 1970 that the Soviet Union reached parity with the United States in land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles, and the overall nuclear balance was attained only shortly before the 1991 Soviet collapse, Vlast said."

Seems like your statement, "In the article they only have sources with testimonials of the fake missiles." is not truthful nor accurate. That's what happens when you stop reading after you found what you thought to be a juicy cherry-picked quote.

Ah, so you really have nothing. You are grasping at straws to justify a country who would need to lie about their ICBMs. That's not a testimonial of someone's personal knowledge of real or fake missiles. That's a brief statement of general Cold War history. The references of personal knowledge in that link says that the missiles are fake.

1744

Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs

« on: June 02, 2021, 06:48:55 PM »

In the article they only have sources with testimonials of the fake missiles.

What a desperate position you guys are now in to have argue that known liars are truthful sometimes. 

1745

Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs

« on: June 02, 2021, 11:49:42 AM »

It is generally accepted that Russia did fake a lot of stuff during the Cold War to pretend that they had more technological prowess than they did. During the Cold War, Russia went around parading fake ICBMs for decades:

Moscow paraded dummy missiles

MANY OF the huge strategic missiles displayed in Red Square parades during the Soviet era were only dummies, but they scared the West into an expensive response, a Russian magazine reported yesterday.

One such fake, GR-1, an acronym for Global Missile, showed during a parade in 1965, prompted the United States to build an anti- missile defence system worth billions of dollars, said the weekly Vlast (Power). In fact, the Soviets had abandoned the GR-1 project long before the parade.

Another two mobile ballistic missiles shown in the same parade were also fakes, their test launches having been a failure, the magazine said. "Foreign military attaches were scared to death, triggering panic in Nato headquarters," it said. "A huge international uproar followed, and only those who prepared this demonstration knew they were dummies." One of the authors of the Vlast report worked as a missile engineer and said he had worked on a support system for one of the fake missiles to prevent it from bouncing on the stone-paved Red Square in Moscow. The magazine said the Soviet leader Nikita Krushchev first bluffed the West with the legend of powerful Russian missiles, saying the Soviet Union was making them "like sausage". "Such comparison sounded ambiguous for the Soviet people, because the sausage was in deficit, but it duly impressed foreigners," it said. At the time of Krushchev's comment, the Soviets had only four intercontinental ballistic missiles on duty, while the United States had 60. "The myth about the Soviet missile superiority was convenient for both the Soviet leadership and the American military industrial complex, which was getting huge contracts," the magazine said.

There is also a book about Russian Cold War fakery; Russia and the Big Red Lie.

1746

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: In Flat Earth Model, How do Migratory Birds Navigate

« on: June 01, 2021, 07:48:08 AM »

Actually the author mentions both bird and birds in that last sentence:

"Although our understanding of the migratory navigation of birds has come a long way"

He is clearly indicating that he is talking about the migratory navigation of birds here. "Although our understanding" suggests that we do not fully understand the migratory navigation of birds.

1747

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Oh hey, its China

« on: May 28, 2021, 08:33:43 PM »

I'm curious why you feel this is a good thing that teachers should be afraid of.

If a teacher is teaching that one race is superior to another, that morality is determined by race, or that students should feel guilty based on their race, they should be fired.

That's literally the definition of racism. Why not fire them for that?

1748

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Oh hey, its China

« on: May 28, 2021, 07:27:33 PM »

A bill signed into law by Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt bans lessons that include the concept that "one race or sex is inherently superior to another race or sex," that a person's "moral character is inherently determined by his or her race or sex," or that someone should feel discomfort, guilt or distress on account of their race or sex.

Wow, the liberals who support schools teaching this must be racist and sexist. The civil rights and suffrage movements fought for equality and to prevent things like this.

Please, let us all hear your arguments on why government school systems should teach that one race is inherently superior to another race, or that morality is determined by race, or that someone should feel discomfort, guilt or distress on account of their race or sex.

1749

Flat Earth Community / Re: Add the Three Pole variants to the FE Maps Page?

« on: May 28, 2021, 05:05:33 AM »

If you just have to drop it to get a different result then the two pole limit to every magnetic construct doesn't seem like a strong theory.

1750

Flat Earth Community / Re: Add the Three Pole variants to the FE Maps Page?

« on: May 28, 2021, 02:11:12 AM »

You forgot about the 'Dual Earth' theory  http://dualearththeory.proboards.com/.  There's no limit to the imagination on this site.  The only problem is that they are all just theories that can't be demonstrated to be true in the real world.

If the surface of the Earth is bending at some point and there are people living on the underside, I wouldn't consider that an FE model, personally, but that's debatable. I would categorize that as an Alt-Earth model and put that in an Alt-Earth section; no offense to the original author of course. And I think the same way about Orlando Furgason's model with the curvy Flat Earth.

So Tom is actually wanting us to consider that the sailing distance from the Cape of Good Hope to New Zealand may be roughly 7 times the sailing distance from New Zealand to Cape Horn.

In other words, the Indian Ocean is 7 times larger than the Pacific Ocean.

Tom, the Vendée Globe sailors would like to have a word with you.

Presumably someone could just adopt same arguments used for the Monopole model for that one, since there are anomalous winds in the particular latitudes that race takes place in. That version of a three pole model is somewhat similar to the classic one.

The point of adding them would really just be to open more options in user creativity more than anything, since people go there to that page to look at variations. There is also a historical component since the first pre-Robotham FE model of the 1800's was a three pole model.

Ends of an axis; 2.  North/South; 2.  Positive/negative; 2.  On/off; 2.  Matter/vacuum; 2.  Contents of my shorts; 2 (legs). 

Where do we find 3 in nature? 

This man found three poles:

1751

Flat Earth Community / Add the Three Pole variants to the FE Maps Page?

« on: May 27, 2021, 06:16:39 PM »

I noticed that in recent years the Flat Earth Maps page has become a source for people to get ideas about possible FE models. People usually link back to this page as a demonstration of possibilities.

We see variants of the Monopole model and the Bi-Polar model. However, this does not complete the range of possibilities. For added completeness, we should consider adding the three pole models. Possibly these two:

https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Anti-Newtonian - The original Flat Earth of the model of the 1800's which had three poles

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=16443.msg213296#msg213296 - A recent variant of the three pole model created by a poster on the forums, showing one possibility

While certainly not as popular as the one and two pole variants, if people are going to that page to see the possibilities and get ideas, there should be more content there based on possibilities rather than popularity.

As well, we should add in the version of the Bi-Polar model that is just two circles on top of each other into that section, to illustrate that there are different possible configurations there.

1752

Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs

« on: May 27, 2021, 07:22:24 AM »

Everyone, this is hilarious, you gotta read this quote from a link Tom Bishop posted saying that Kepler still used epicycles:

"Kepler accounted for the second class of deviation by his perspicuous laws of planetary motion. It is this fact that has generally been credited with the destruction of epicycles as a mechanical device.

And sitting atop and below that quote are explanations on why that "generally credited" idea is wrong.

I was going to repost the link, but too much trouble and it was a conventional science article from I think 1940 and waste of your time to read it unless you want a intro to astronomy circa 1940.  Tom Bishop likes his science quotes old.

You were literally citing the work of a scientist born in 1571. 

Too bad that Kepler used epicycles, contradictory to your claim. There is an image of his system with epicycles there in that link. - https://ia802909.us.archive.org/18/items/the-foundations-of-astrodynamics/The%20Foundations%20of%20Astrodynamics.pdf

Occam's razor: the simple explanation for the facts I know is that ICBMs exist and the people who aim and test them know the true shape of the earth.

I have a hard time understanding this sentence.

You know the simple explanation for the facts that ICBMs exist? How is that?

1753

Flat Earth Media / Re: Latest Discoveries in Astronomy: Globe Theory of Earth Refuted, Orlando Ferguson

« on: May 27, 2021, 03:12:27 AM »

I'm also interested if Pete can find the copy that was sent to him to add to the library.

1754

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: May 26, 2021, 01:02:08 PM »

I don't see any increases out of the norm of the previous few years under Trump. I do see uncharacteristic things happening under Biden though.

Biden told us that he knew what he had to to and promised to "build back better". He has signed dozens of sweeping EO's and policy changes in his first few weeks, far more when coming into office than any president in history. Democrats even have both the House and Senate. The 100 day "honeymoon" period is over. It has been over four months and it's on them now.

1755

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: May 26, 2021, 12:34:36 PM »

Biden has the ball. Biden is at fault. Five months will go by and you guys will still be blaming Trump. 

1756

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: May 26, 2021, 03:25:30 AM »

Must be all Biden causing these prices to rise because nothing really of any import happened in 2020. I remember something about a nasty flu going around, but really of no consequence...

Things have clearly gotten a bit out of control recently compared to when Trump was handling things. Considering that the sitting president and his administration are on point on this and have the ball, the state of the American economy and society is ultimately on them.

1757

Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs

« on: May 26, 2021, 02:36:07 AM »

Today a celestial navigator takes multiple sightings on some chosen heavenly bodies then uses spherical trig to break the sights down to arrive at a usable position.  The assumption is always based upon the fact that the earth is a sphere.  If that were not so then celestial navigation wouldn't work.  It does work.  I know from personal experience, so the earth must be a sphere.  This has been demonstrated in the Zetetic manner.

Celestial bodies and lights in the sky aren't the earth. Spherical trigonometry means that the sky is spread out around you and says nothing about the actual shape of the Earth. The bodies don't even move at a consistent speed, but speed up as they approach the horizon due to 'refraction'.

There are ways to get your latitude or longitude from the celestial bodies, such as from the angle of the Sun at noon, but all of the FE models also have a longitude and latitude.

celestial navigation is based on a precopernican world view (the earth was believed to be the centre of the universe)."

And what shape was it known to be?

The precopernican world view was a round world that required epicycles. Keep up.

RE both epicycles still being used and celestial navigation based on precopernican, straw man, Tom Bishop is misrepresenting RET. Seems like the REs should get to say what RE is.

They did.

1758

Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs

« on: May 25, 2021, 06:06:04 PM »

Tom Bishop, do I correctly understand your position?

"Celestial navigation is allegedly based on the theory that the Round Earth is the center of the universe and that everything is revolving around it."

Where did you get that? Completely wrong. Please take a course in elementary astronomy.

It is you who needs to take some courses.

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/01/satellite-nav-1.html

"Man has navigated across the globe by means of satellites for thousands of years – however, until the mid twentieth century, these were not GPS-satellites, but stars. In reality, the sun and the stars aren’t satellites of the Earth, but celestial navigation is based on a precopernican world view (the earth was believed to be the centre of the universe)."

1759

Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs

« on: May 25, 2021, 05:53:59 PM »

Epicycles, from the wiki page:

Epicycles worked very well and were highly accurate, because, as Fourier analysis later showed, any smooth curve can be approximated to arbitrary accuracy with a sufficient number of epicycles. However, they fell out of favour with the discovery that planetary motions were largely elliptical from a heliocentric frame of reference, which led to the discovery that gravity obeying a simple inverse square law could better explain all planetary motions.

I searched looking for contemporary astronomy using epicycles, but after many pages, I could find only Ptolemy, Copernicus, Aristotle, all history telling the story of how Kepler came up with a better explanation. Zero contemporary references to epicycles. Explained here:

https://www.spitzinc.com/blog/epicycles-and-discovering-bad-theories/

As I asked earlier, do you understand RET? Apparently not

No, actually, it is you who does not know about RET. Kepler used epicycles. This should have been a dead give away since Newton came after Kepler, and used epicycles in the previous quote I gave.

There were still epicycles in Kepler's version. He just reduced it a little more. You can see that Jupiter is on an epicycle in his version:

Dr. Samuel Herrick - https://ia802909.us.archive.org/18/items/the-foundations-of-astrodynamics/The%20Foundations%20of%20Astrodynamics.pdf

“ Physical celestial mechanics may be said to have begun with Galileo Galilei, Isaac Newton, and the laws of force and gravitation. Astrodynamics and mathematical celestial mechanics, on the other hand, date back at least to Heracleides of Pontus in the fourth century B.C. The Greek invention of epicycles and eccentrics was developed into a system by Apollonius of Perga in the third century and Hipparchus of Alexandria in the second century B.C. It was refined and published by Ptolemy of Alexandria in the second century A.D., and came to be known as the Ptolemaic system. It is generally assumed that the epicycle was discredited by Johannes Kepler some 1500 years later, but in point of fact epicycles have persisted in astrodynamics down to the present day, and have extended their domain into other areas of science under the guise of Fourier series! ”

  “ In modern perturbation theory we actually take account of the original epicyclic concept by combining several Fourier series that have arguments based upon different angular variables. ”

1760

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: May 25, 2021, 05:03:49 PM »

Biden doesn't actually have to implement anything. He just needs to be there saying that he's going to raise taxes, stop the wall, give handouts, etc., and market tanks.

From Market Insider -

Wheat increased after Nov 5 2020:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/wheat-price



Corn went up after Nov 5 2020:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/corn-price



Coal went up after Nov 5 2020, after a year of lows:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/coal-price



Iron Ore:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/iron-ore-price



Soybean Oil:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/soybean-oil-price



Ethanol:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/ethanol-price



Lumber:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/lumber-price