[Pete Svarrior]

It's difficult to determine exactly how to respond when you go off-piste with the insults.

You still don't understand this, do you? You are under no obligation to be polite - you just need to have some content to actually post.

I have a response that meets your "requirement for evidence", but [I won't post it for reasons]

OK. 🤷‍♀️ If you don't want to say something, don't say it; but don't put together an announcement about how you totally have a very good answer, which you won't post because Pete bad.

To be clear - that's not a request, that's an instruction. If you want to continue the discussion, then either bring your evidence to the table or retract your claim. If instead you're choosing to leave the discussion, then actually leave it.

[Roundy]

It's difficult to determine exactly how to respond when you go off-piste with the insults.

You still don't understand this, do you? You are under no obligation to be polite - you just need to have some content to actually post.

If that's the case you should really rewrite the rules to reflect it. They say unequivocally no personal attacks.

[stack]

Ok Stack, sorry but Pete is right.  The Trump campaign is run by the GOP, not Trump.  At least online. 
They have full control.  They're like a movie studio who runs the official <insert actor here> fan site.

I don't believe that the GOP runs the Trump campaign, per se. And I don't know how you have determined that the GOP has full control. These key people run the campaign:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_2024_presidential_campaign

And the URL at the bottom seems to be the main, 'official' online campaign contribution portal. Which resolves to the GOP candidates contribution collecting platform created for any and all Republican runners to use, winred.com.

WinRed is an American Republican Party (GOP) fundraising platform endorsed by the Republican National Committee. It was launched to compete with the Democratic Party's success in online grassroots fundraising with their platform ActBlue.

The GOP, the Trump re-election campaign, and other state-wide and local-level races across the United States used the platform as of late 2019, with nearly 800 campaigns using the platform by May 2020.[5] WinRed discloses donor information to the Federal Election Commission.[6]

WinRed merged Revv, a GOP payment processing firm founded in December 2014 by Gerrit Lansing, and DataTrust, the party's voter data repository. The platform allows one-click donations.[7][8]
In 2019, the RNC and the Trump administration applied heavy pressure to incentivize all Republican campaigns to use the platform.[2] In April 2020, the platform expanded from its previous representation of only federal-level candidates and opened support to state- and local-level races.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinRed

As far as I can tell, the only place online to contribute is through the www.donaldjtrump.com (winred). And the only places I can find where you can get "official" Trump MAGA wear and trinkets are the store linked off of www.trump.com and the winred store hanging off of the Trump 24 campaign contribution site.

Trump.com store:


Winred Trump campaign store:


Now did Steven Cheung, Trump's campaign director, sign-off on the T-shirts sold via the redwin platform, or did he leave it to the GOP come up with whatever they wanted? I haven't a clue. Did the GOP write all of the copy on the official donaldjtrump (redwin) contribution site without any input from Trump's campaign itself? Haven't a clue about that either. But my understanding is that if you're a repub candidate, your urged to use the redwin platform and what you do is sign-up, create your campaign page with the copy, graphics and contribution features you want and even opt-in for their merch store platform capabilities just like setting up a shopify store. I'm of a mind not to believe that the GOP creates all the content for every republican candidate that uses the redwin platform.

Perhaps there's a clue somewhere in this interview with the redwin founder, Gerrit Lansing:

Merchandise hasn’t been a huge fundraising channel for most campaigns, although that’s certainly shifting. Last year, more 12,000 products were created by state, local, and federal campaigns using WinRed’s commerce platform, according to the company. 

C&E: What’s working for campaigns who are pushing merch?

Lansing: It’s really about actioning the zeitgeist of the moment, if you will, in merchandise format, which can be as simple as a tweet on a mug. Everyone’s first instinct is to throw the campaign’s logo up there. Sorry, but no one wants to buy [merch] with the campaign’s logo, except your top 500 fans. In which case, sell it for $99.

My prediction this cycle: there’s going to be a state or local campaign, or a small House campaign who just comes out with the merch of the moment, with the message of the moment and totally blows up nationally and they get hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars for like a tiny campaign because they happen to nail that moment.
https://campaignsandelections.com/creative/selling-merch-is-getting-easier-how-much-should-campaigns-invest/

[Lord Dave]

Ok Stack, sorry but Pete is right.  The Trump campaign is run by the GOP, not Trump.  At least online. 
They have full control.  They're like a movie studio who runs the official <insert actor here> fan site.

I don't believe that the GOP runs the Trump campaign, per se. And I don't know how you have determined that the GOP has full control. These key people run the campaign:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_2024_presidential_campaign

And the URL at the bottom seems to be the main, 'official' online campaign contribution portal. Which resolves to the GOP candidates contribution collecting platform created for any and all Republican runners to use, winred.com.

WinRed is an American Republican Party (GOP) fundraising platform endorsed by the Republican National Committee. It was launched to compete with the Democratic Party's success in online grassroots fundraising with their platform ActBlue.

The GOP, the Trump re-election campaign, and other state-wide and local-level races across the United States used the platform as of late 2019, with nearly 800 campaigns using the platform by May 2020.[5] WinRed discloses donor information to the Federal Election Commission.[6]

WinRed merged Revv, a GOP payment processing firm founded in December 2014 by Gerrit Lansing, and DataTrust, the party's voter data repository. The platform allows one-click donations.[7][8]
In 2019, the RNC and the Trump administration applied heavy pressure to incentivize all Republican campaigns to use the platform.[2] In April 2020, the platform expanded from its previous representation of only federal-level candidates and opened support to state- and local-level races.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinRed

As far as I can tell, the only place online to contribute is through the www.donaldjtrump.com (winred). And the only places I can find where you can get "official" Trump MAGA wear and trinkets are the store linked off of www.trump.com and the winred store hanging off of the Trump 24 campaign contribution site.

Trump.com store:


Winred Trump campaign store:


Now did Steven Cheung, Trump's campaign director, sign-off on the T-shirts sold via the redwin platform, or did he leave it to the GOP come up with whatever they wanted? I haven't a clue. Did the GOP write all of the copy on the official donaldjtrump (redwin) contribution site without any input from Trump's campaign itself? Haven't a clue about that either. But my understanding is that if you're a repub candidate, your urged to use the redwin platform and what you do is sign-up, create your campaign page with the copy, graphics and contribution features you want and even opt-in for their merch store platform capabilities just like setting up a shopify store. I'm of a mind not to believe that the GOP creates all the content for every republican candidate that uses the redwin platform.

Perhaps there's a clue somewhere in this interview with the redwin founder, Gerrit Lansing:

Merchandise hasn’t been a huge fundraising channel for most campaigns, although that’s certainly shifting. Last year, more 12,000 products were created by state, local, and federal campaigns using WinRed’s commerce platform, according to the company. 

C&E: What’s working for campaigns who are pushing merch?

Lansing: It’s really about actioning the zeitgeist of the moment, if you will, in merchandise format, which can be as simple as a tweet on a mug. Everyone’s first instinct is to throw the campaign’s logo up there. Sorry, but no one wants to buy [merch] with the campaign’s logo, except your top 500 fans. In which case, sell it for $99.

My prediction this cycle: there’s going to be a state or local campaign, or a small House campaign who just comes out with the merch of the moment, with the message of the moment and totally blows up nationally and they get hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars for like a tiny campaign because they happen to nail that moment.
https://campaignsandelections.com/creative/selling-merch-is-getting-easier-how-much-should-campaigns-invest/

I did say "at least online" as the offline I'm not too sure on.  But given that Trump is a front runner, it would seem odd that the GOP would take a hands off approach.  They know they need Trump and his 30% base (or whatever it is now) even if they know he's toxic.  So its in their best interest to try and manage things themselves rather than have Trump do what he wants, which is not gonna help them win.  A scroll through his twitter clone posts tells you how he'd campaign/advertise if he ran it himself.

[stack]

I did say "at least online" as the offline I'm not too sure on.  But given that Trump is a front runner, it would seem odd that the GOP would take a hands off approach.  They know they need Trump and his 30% base (or whatever it is now) even if they know he's toxic.  So its in their best interest to try and manage things themselves rather than have Trump do what he wants, which is not gonna help them win.  A scroll through his twitter clone posts tells you how he'd campaign/advertise if he ran it himself.

I don't believe that to be true, online or otherwise. Winred is a platform for republicans to collect donations and sell merch. If you go to https://nikkihaley.com/ and click on a donation button, you're redirected to her winred page, just like The Donald. I don't believe that the GOP (RNC) manages all of the republican candidates pages on redwin. Maybe they do, but that seems bizarre to me, letting randos at the RNC come up with whatever content without some sort of actual campaign oversight, let alone the logistics and effort to do that for all repub candidates on the platform.

As well, this from in 2019 when winred (I keep mistakenly typing 'redwin' for some reason) came online:

The premise of WinRed is simple: The site is a conduit for donations, allowing individuals to contribute to a number of conservative candidates or causes. Individual donors may give to their favorite candidate, split contributions among several candidates or set up recurring donations for a period of time. Once a user makes a donation, the site suggests other candidates or causes the donor might want to consider.

The platform is a joint venture of the Trump Campaign, the Republican National Committee and the Senate and House GOP party committees. It was immediately praised by conservative outside groups, including the Congressional Leadership Fund.
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/06/republicans-winred-seeks-small-donors/

[Pete Svarrior]

Damn, that's such a roundabout way of saying absolutely nothing. Your argument, essentially, is that you can go from Wikipedia to the store by following links, and therefore it's official. How does any of this even attempt to counter the clear disclaimer on both sites? There would be plenty of room for speculation otherwise, but the parties involved already told us what the deal is. Are you intentionally ignoring this, or, again, are you accusing them of lying?

[Lord Dave]

I did say "at least online" as the offline I'm not too sure on.  But given that Trump is a front runner, it would seem odd that the GOP would take a hands off approach.  They know they need Trump and his 30% base (or whatever it is now) even if they know he's toxic.  So its in their best interest to try and manage things themselves rather than have Trump do what he wants, which is not gonna help them win.  A scroll through his twitter clone posts tells you how he'd campaign/advertise if he ran it himself.

I don't believe that to be true, online or otherwise. Winred is a platform for republicans to collect donations and sell merch. If you go to https://nikkihaley.com/ and click on a donation button, you're redirected to her winred page, just like The Donald. I don't believe that the GOP (RNC) manages all of the republican candidates pages on redwin. Maybe they do, but that seems bizarre to me, letting randos at the RNC come up with whatever content without some sort of actual campaign oversight, let alone the logistics and effort to do that for all repub candidates on the platform.

As well, this from in 2019 when winred (I keep mistakenly typing 'redwin' for some reason) came online:

The premise of WinRed is simple: The site is a conduit for donations, allowing individuals to contribute to a number of conservative candidates or causes. Individual donors may give to their favorite candidate, split contributions among several candidates or set up recurring donations for a period of time. Once a user makes a donation, the site suggests other candidates or causes the donor might want to consider.

The platform is a joint venture of the Trump Campaign, the Republican National Committee and the Senate and House GOP party committees. It was immediately praised by conservative outside groups, including the Congressional Leadership Fund.
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/06/republicans-winred-seeks-small-donors/

Why not?  Someone has to manage the sites and if you build your platform like the million of other "make your own site" pages where you just use a template and put in your own pics, the amount of work that needs doing is minimal.  Pick a template, throw in some pictures. Go with it.

I mean, someone has to manage it and it makes sense to outsource that instead of having a dedicated webmaster who designs the site and runs it by Trump or his committee for approval. 

And looking at three so far, (nickey, trump and Ron deSantis) they definitely have a "This is a template" to me.

As for some rando managing it:
Remember, this is a national party.  They need a unified message.  And none of these guys write their own speeches.
And reading Trump's page, nothing.  And I mean nothing was written by him.  I'd be shocked if he even approved it.

However, HIS site is "Paid for by Donald J Trump for President 2024, Inc." so... *shrug*

[Pete Svarrior]

However, HIS site is "Paid for by Donald J Trump for President 2024, Inc." so... *shrug*

Trump has no direct say in Donald J Trump for President 2024, Inc. Similarly, Bernie Sanders has no stake in the running of Friends of Bernie Sanders.

Indeed, Donald J Trump for President 2024, Inc. is run and managed by Red Curve Solutions, a finance and PR company.

[Lord Dave]

However, HIS site is "Paid for by Donald J Trump for President 2024, Inc." so... *shrug*

Trump has no direct say in Donald J Trump for President 2024, Inc. Similarly, Bernie Sanders has no stake in the running of Friends of Bernie Sanders.

Indeed, Donald J Trump for President 2024, Inc. is run and managed by Red Curve Solutions, a finance and PR company.

That does explain it.

[stack]

I did say "at least online" as the offline I'm not too sure on.  But given that Trump is a front runner, it would seem odd that the GOP would take a hands off approach.  They know they need Trump and his 30% base (or whatever it is now) even if they know he's toxic.  So its in their best interest to try and manage things themselves rather than have Trump do what he wants, which is not gonna help them win.  A scroll through his twitter clone posts tells you how he'd campaign/advertise if he ran it himself.

I don't believe that to be true, online or otherwise. Winred is a platform for republicans to collect donations and sell merch. If you go to https://nikkihaley.com/ and click on a donation button, you're redirected to her winred page, just like The Donald. I don't believe that the GOP (RNC) manages all of the republican candidates pages on redwin. Maybe they do, but that seems bizarre to me, letting randos at the RNC come up with whatever content without some sort of actual campaign oversight, let alone the logistics and effort to do that for all repub candidates on the platform.

As well, this from in 2019 when winred (I keep mistakenly typing 'redwin' for some reason) came online:

The premise of WinRed is simple: The site is a conduit for donations, allowing individuals to contribute to a number of conservative candidates or causes. Individual donors may give to their favorite candidate, split contributions among several candidates or set up recurring donations for a period of time. Once a user makes a donation, the site suggests other candidates or causes the donor might want to consider.

The platform is a joint venture of the Trump Campaign, the Republican National Committee and the Senate and House GOP party committees. It was immediately praised by conservative outside groups, including the Congressional Leadership Fund.
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/06/republicans-winred-seeks-small-donors/

Why not?  Someone has to manage the sites and if you build your platform like the million of other "make your own site" pages where you just use a template and put in your own pics, the amount of work that needs doing is minimal.  Pick a template, throw in some pictures. Go with it.

I mean, someone has to manage it and it makes sense to outsource that instead of having a dedicated webmaster who designs the site and runs it by Trump or his committee for approval. 

And looking at three so far, (nickey, trump and Ron deSantis) they definitely have a "This is a template" to me.

As for some rando managing it:
Remember, this is a national party.  They need a unified message.  And none of these guys write their own speeches.
And reading Trump's page, nothing.  And I mean nothing was written by him.  I'd be shocked if he even approved it.

However, HIS site is "Paid for by Donald J Trump for President 2024, Inc." so... *shrug*

I've never said that The Donald writes the content or photoshops the images on t-shirts himself. He has campaign group of people just like he has speechwriters and those people are not the RNC, they are his campaign minions. As part of his campaign group, they pay for consultants to aid his effort just like any other candidate does. For instance, this from WaPo:

Trump’s 2016 campaign was run on a shoestring. His reelection machine is huge — and armed with consultants.
Since 2017, nearly $92 million has flowed to dozens of firms providing political consulting services to Trump’s 2020 reelection machine.

At this point in the last election, Trump’s campaign employed 19 consultants. Now, there are more than 200. When Trump had all but locked up the nomination by May 2016, he had spent $63 million. Thus far, pro-Trump committees have spent $531 million.

Trump’s overflowing coffers have allowed him to spend lavishly early in the race. For instance, the committees recently launched $10 million ad offense targeting Democrats, including former vice president Joe Biden.

The spending has also created a financial boon for a political-consulting class he once shunned.

Since 2017, nearly $92 million has flowed to dozens of firms providing political consulting services to Trump’s 2020 reelection machine, according to an analysis of campaign spending by The Washington Post.



*(In case you're wondering what "committees" are, this from the FEC, news to me as well:
Candidates and their authorized committees
An individual running for a seat in the Senate or the House of Representatives or for President of the United States becomes a candidate when he or she raises or spends more than $5,000 in contributions or expenditures.
Presidential, House and Senate candidates must designate a campaign committee. This "authorized committee" takes in contributions and make expenditures on behalf of the campaign.)

The Trump campaign, not the RNC, pays consultants to strategize, track, and implement everything involved in a run for office. Winred is just a platform with no specific affiliation to a candidate as they simply provide templates and tools for a candidate/campaign to create a promotional site, collect donations and, sell merch, basically an all in one squarespace, cafepress, & shopify. The campaign, not the RNC, uploads their content, desired contribution amounts, merch design and winred fulfills.

Just like if I created t-shirts via cafepress for the heavy metal band, 'Aloha Oyster Cult' I'm the ukulele player for and on my band website it says, "Click here to by our official Aloha Oyster Cult concert T's, socks, & sweatbands", clicking the link the user ends up over on my band's cafepress store site, cafepress has "no affiliation" with my band. They just provide a shop to buy my bands merch, manufacture it and ship it out. That's basically what winred is.

I don't know where this RNC runs a republican candidates online campaign comes from. The candidate's campaign runs their campaign.

[Lord Dave]

You make a good point, if we see it like cafepress and squarespace.

[Pete Svarrior]

You make a good point, if we see it like cafepress and squarespace.

Stack, once again, should have read the fine print. His Cafepress store does explain the relationship between Cafepress and his band, and, unsurprisingly, it does not say "Paid for by Cafepress. Not authorised by the band or any of its members."

There is no room for speculation on these issues, because the parties involved already told us what the score is. He ignores reality (because reality closes off any chance of him being correct) and proceeds to speculate about a world in which these clarifications don't exist. Toddler mentality.

[Lord Dave]

You make a good point, if we see it like cafepress and squarespace.

Stack, once again, should have read the fine print. His Cafepress store does explain the relationship between Cafepress and his band, and, unsurprisingly, it does not say "Paid for by Cafepress. Not authorised by the band or any of its members."

There is no room for speculation on these issues, because the parties involved already told us what the score is. He ignores reality (because reality closes off any chance of him being correct) and proceeds to speculate about a world in which these clarifications don't exist. Toddler mentality.

I'm starting to wonder if that only applies to the donation.
Or that the store(winred.com) is not paid for or authorized by any candidate.

Ugh.  These sites are not helpful.

[Rama Set]

If we are not speculating then we must assume that the link to Trump’s official store from his website is his official store, which is all that was posited.

[Pete Svarrior]

If we are not speculating then we must assume

lol, sig'd

Anyway

If we are not speculating then we must assume that the link to Trump’s official store from his website is his official store, which is all that was posited.

I'm not sure how you reach the conclusion that the site doesn't tell us the truth about its nature without speculation, especially when none of you presented any reason to doubt that statement.

Even if you ignore the disclaimer (though you have absolutely no reason to), we also followed the paper trail. We know who runs the store, and it's not Trump. This is an extremely clear and simple case. A few people forgot to read what they cited, and they were corrected. It clearly hurt some feelings, and I won't pretend that wasn't intentional, but there's always the opportunity to do better next time.

[markjo]

If we are not speculating then we must assume that the link to Trump’s official store from his website is his official store, which is all that was posited.

I'm not sure how you reach the conclusion that the site doesn't tell us the truth about its nature without speculation, especially when none of you presented any reason to doubt that statement.

Even if you ignore the disclaimer (though you have absolutely no reason to), we also followed the paper trail. We know who runs the store, and it's not Trump. This is an extremely clear and simple case. A few people forgot to read what they cited, and they were corrected. It clearly hurt some feelings, and I won't pretend that wasn't intentional, but there's always the opportunity to do better next time.

Perhaps it's the use of the word "official" that is confusing people.  How many supporters bother reading the disclaimer or follow the paper trail to see who actually runs the store?  All they would see is "Official Trump" and naturally assume that Trump did approve and/or authorize his name and/or likeness to be used on the merch.

[Pete Svarrior]

Perhaps it's the repeated use of the word "official" that is confusing people.

Quite likely, yes, but when A69 questioned it, it would have been good form to verify that assumption before doubling down. Of course, the Daily Fail writer is also at fault here - but we know better than to take their articles at face value, right?

[Rama Set]

If we are not speculating then we must assume

lol, sig'd

Anyway

If we are not speculating then we must assume that the link to Trump’s official store from his website is his official store, which is all that was posited.

I'm not sure how you reach the conclusion that the site doesn't tell us the truth about its nature without speculation, especially when none of you presented any reason to doubt that statement.

Even if you ignore the disclaimer (though you have absolutely no reason to), we also followed the paper trail. We know who runs the store, and it's not Trump. This is an extremely clear and simple case. A few people forgot to read what they cited, and they were corrected. It clearly hurt some feelings, and I won't pretend that wasn't intentional, but there's always the opportunity to do better next time.

I never doubted that WinRed was telling the truth. I’m assuming both are telling the truth. It’s Trump’s official store (his site tells us) and it’s run by WinRed. Why can’t both be true?

[Pete Svarrior]

I never doubted that WinRed was telling the truth. I’m assuming both are telling the truth. It’s Trump’s official store (his site tells us) and it’s run by WinRed. Why can’t both be true?

You're ignoring the context of the conversation. I wanted to be courteous and didn't jump on that the first time, but it looks like you're determined to make me regret that courtesy. *Sigh*, oh well.

It doesn't matter whether the store is described as "official". The accusation presented in this thread is that Trump is grifting off his arrest. He isn't - he doesn't run the store. To ignore the message that started this discussion and pretend that the rest of it exists in a vaccum is to argue in bad faith.

[markjo]

The accusation presented in this thread is that Trump is grifting off his arrest. He isn't - he doesn't run the store.

Just because Trump doesn't run the store doesn't mean that he isn't profiting off of the store, even if it's indirectly.