The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Pete Svarrior on September 27, 2016, 12:50:56 AM
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It's this time again!!!!!!
pls join
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9m_hzXE7f4
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stream down, new link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N4KiSvOz8w
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The Bloomberg stream is supposed to have live fact checking or something:
http://www.bloomberg.com/live
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Other option:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR8E764BIMw
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Strong start by Hillary, referencing the gender wage gap because why the fuck not
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Mexico China China Mexico
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Aaaand Hillary goes straight to personal attacks, just minutes into the first question
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Trump unaffected by personal challenges, continues to China Mexico China China
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Hillary continues to attack Trump, Trump no longer unaffected
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<Irushwithscvs> Solar panels create jobs --Hillary Clinton
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Hillary deploys tactical smug face. Trump is getting wound up!
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Candidates now in disagreement about facts
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<Irushwithscvs> Trump's gonna choke a bitch
<beardo> Red really suits her better than blue. It's the colour of evil.
<Irushwithscvs> """people""" have looked at my plans
<Irushwithscvs> Important people
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Hillary wants everyone to go to her website and like and subscribe. Meanwhile, Trump has completely lost his chill and is back to the Donald we know and love.
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<Pondroid> Clinton is coming across a lot better than I thought she would.
<@sexdroid> That's not saying much
<Pondroid> No, not its not.
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Trump claims tax evaders are smart
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<Irushwithscvs> Tax evasion is illegal, avoidance is not
<@sexdroid> m i s t a k e
<Irushwithscvs> I never intended for anything bad to happen
<beardo> "I take full responsibility"
<Irushwithscvs> I am sorry I gave the whole planet classified state data
<beardo> So why aren't you in jail?
<Irushwithscvs> Ooops
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Hillary admits she wants to take the guns
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i am confused by the clinton camp strategy. i don't think it makes any sense to her to be aggressively jabbing and trading insults. she should just be dismissive.
it's also fucking dumb to direct people to fact checkers on your own campaign's website. just tell everyone to go to any other independent real-time fact checking shit going on right now.
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Meanwhile, Trump wants to solve the police violence problem by hiring more cops
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<Irushwithscvs> Military style weapons
<Irushwithscvs> High capacity assault trucks
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Birtherism, therefore ISIS!!!!
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Birtherism, therefore racism!!!
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>Hillary
>Cybersecurity
plz
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<Irushwithscvs> Lol
<Irushwithscvs> Hillary talking about cybersecurity
<@sexdroid> Cyber warfare!
<Irushwithscvs> She should mention the hacker 4chan and pepe
<Irushwithscvs> Hackers and their nazi frogs
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Hillary promises intelligence vacuum
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Nukes are worse than global warming, confirmed
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It's over and Trump won. Good night.
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We obviously werent watching the same debate.
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betfair thinks it was a decent win for hillary. trump went from ~35% to ~29%.
i thought it was a tie. trump was undisciplined, but hillary was too smarmy.
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I spent the first 1.5 hours watching a Neil Breen movie. After it was over I joined in, and, uh...I actually think the dialogue in the Breen movie was better. Hillary and Trumpadump basically just tried to out-retard each other. I can't tell who did a better job.
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I give it to Hillary for being more specific and having more coherent sentences. Still wouldn't want to be American at this time.
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I don't think either of them performed poorly, so to speak. The only thing that did stand out to me as a definite misstep was Trump angrily yelling about how great his temperament was in comparison to Hillary's, but Trump fans convinced themselves a long time ago that this thin-skinned, easily-triggered drama queen was actually a rugged man's man and an unwavering titan of strength and virility in a world gone soft, so I don't expect them to see the irony. Also, looking at pretty much any fact-checking article will show that Trump lied considerably more than Clinton did, but again, I don't expect his fans to care:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/26/politics/fact-check-presidential-debate-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/sep/26/trump-clinton-first-debate-fact-checks/
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/us/politics/fact-check-debate.html
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Trump was pretty good for the first 30 minutes of the debate. He was able to stay calm and address points. But for the last 60 minutes... it just felt like rambling. Some of the worst parts for Trump:
- Continuing to defend stop and frisk after being told again and again it's unconstitutional. Not just for racial bias, but because it is anti-fourth amendment and gives police power to search you without warrant or cause. It is ironic that Trump, the seemingly pro-second amendment candidate, is suggesting illegal searches to take away guns.
- Boasting about being audited for 15 years. Not a good thing in a national televised debate. In all honesty, there's no way to fix the tax return thing at this point. He's going to keep on being attacked for not releasing them, and if he does release them, he'll be attacked for what's in them. The campaign should have had an answer for this question, and it seems they didn't except to boast about a 15-year IRS audit.
- Saying that buying up companies was "called business" and that not paying taxes was "smart" is going to become an attack ad by the end of the week. Might be true, but the American voter is not going to take kindly to a candidate they feel is not paying their "fair share", and it's going to get contrasted with Trump's criticism of NATO members not paying their fair share.
- Sweet jesus the birther question. He obviously didn't answer the question and didn't even attempt to hide it. The campaign knew this question was going to come up, yet they seemingly don't have an answer for why Trump changed his mind or why he continued the birther stuff after the release of Obama's birth certificate. What's worse is that Trump proclaimed that he was proud of, in essence, believing conspiracy theories about Obama's birth.
- Telling people to call Sean Hannity about Trump's position on the Iraq War. What even? That isn't going to help in the debate. You need an answer to these questions!
- Loudly bragging about his temperament.
It's like the campaign didn't even try to prepare.
EDIT: Also, how in the world did Trump go through a Cyber Security section and not bring up the E-mails? That was the perfect time to do it, and he didn't.
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I'm just proud of Hillary for not fainting or going into a coughing fit. She was well-medicated and ready to go.
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My favorite pop culture reference of the night. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8lDYrvTILc)
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Trump fatshamed. This could cost him the election.
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lol gg trump is a scrub
Hilldog: 1 Trump:0
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http://www.businessinsider.com/was-donald-trump-sniffling-presidential-debate-2016-9
lol
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Trump represents the people:
Blaming everything but themselves.
Simple answers to complex situations.
Stupid.
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The most conspicuous aspect was Trump's blue tie, and Hillary's red dress; in the last debate which will take place on October 19, Trump will wear his usual red tie.
Both Trump and Clinton put on a show which was scripted well beforehand.
Trump is saying the right things, the concepts and ideas which a certain segment of the population has been waiting for a very long time for someone to address them.
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- Continuing to defend stop and frisk after being told again and again it's unconstitutional. Not just for racial bias, but because it is anti-fourth amendment and gives police power to search you without warrant or cause. It is ironic that Trump, the seemingly pro-second amendment candidate, is suggesting illegal searches to take away guns.
Stop-and-frisk was never ruled unconstitutional, and in fact Trump showed us that he understands the court system well enough to point out why. The SCOTUS ruled that stop-and-frisk is constitutional in Terry v Ohio. What Lester Holt was referencing was a single circuit court judge trying to rule otherwise, which Trump is correct that an appeal would have easily overturned that judge's decision.
- Saying that buying up companies was "called business" and that not paying taxes was "smart" is going to become an attack ad by the end of the week. Might be true, but the American voter is not going to take kindly to a candidate they feel is not paying their "fair share", and it's going to get contrasted with Trump's criticism of NATO members not paying their fair share.
The difference being that Trump is simply paying what is legally obligated and NATO is not. Anyone who pays more federal taxes than they are legally obligated to do is simply throwing money away. It's not like the federal government is very good at spending it anyway.
- Telling people to call Sean Hannity about Trump's position on the Iraq War. What even? That isn't going to help in the debate. You need an answer to these questions!
Call Sean Hannity, idiot.
- Loudly bragging about his temperament.
IT'S THE BEST!
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Did anyone notice how Hillary got two big assists from Lester Holt? He asked Trump about his taxes and also asked him the birther question. I thought the moderators are supposed to ask the exact same questions of both candidates?
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Did anyone notice how Hillary got two big assists from Lester Holt? He asked Trump about his taxes and also asked him the birther question. I thought the moderators are supposed to ask the exact same questions of both candidates?
I haven't seen the whole thing but if so I will say this...
Donald Trump put a survey of things he wanted to talk about at the debate. I'm guessing that it was put to Holt to talk about it because it was on the survey.
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Just heard on the debate: Donald Trump claimed Hillary has been fighting ISIS her entire adult life.
Is... is that ... what?
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Just heard on the debate: Donald Trump claimed Hillary has been fighting ISIS her entire adult life.
Is... is that ... what?
That must be an allusion to how she has been in the political game since the 1970s.
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Trump just said, almost literally "I screwed people because it was legal to"
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Trump just said, almost literally "I screwed people because it was legal to"
Pretty much. Meanwhile, Hillary has done the same, or worse, but she'd never admit it.
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Trump just said, almost literally "I screwed people because it was legal to"
I don't follow. How did he screw people because it was legal?
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Stop-and-frisk was never ruled unconstitutional
[...]
What Lester Holt was referencing was a single circuit court judge trying to rule otherwise,
So yes, it was ruled unconstitutional by a US district court judge. Plus in Terry v. Ohio, a lot of the decision relied upon the stop being justified due to the cop's reasonable suspicion a crime was taking place. If there is no reasonable suspicion, the stop would constitute an illegal search, and the ruling on New York's stop and frisk program claimed these stops were unreasonable. In any case, it's much less clear cut than Trump is leading us to believe.
The difference being that Trump is simply paying what is legally obligated and NATO is not.
NATO members are not legally required to pay 2% GDP either. It is a guideline. Likewise, if you're going to run for president, it's probably best not to use shady loopholes to pay the least amount of tax possible.
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Trump just said, almost literally "I screwed people because it was legal to"
I don't follow. How did he screw people because it was legal?
The dialog was about people who were "stiffed" or underpaid by Donald Trump. Especially when he filed Bankruptcy (4 times). He then said that he used the laws available to him to his advantage and that's smart. And when a specific example was used about an architect, he said "well, maybe I wasn't happy with his work."
Simply put, he said that he doesn't pay taxes or files for bankruptcy when it is both legal and beneficial to himself. He had no sympathy for those who are not benefited by it.
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So yes, it was ruled unconstitutional by a US district court judge. Plus in Terry v. Ohio, a lot of the decision relied upon the stop being justified due to the cop's reasonable suspicion a crime was taking place. If there is no reasonable suspicion, the stop would constitute an illegal search, and the ruling on New York's stop and frisk program claimed these stops were unreasonable. In any case, it's much less clear cut than Trump is leading us to believe.
A district court judge doesn't have the authority to override prior SCOTUS decisions. It was a completely nonsensical "fact check" and the moderator should have stayed out of it.
NATO members are not legally required to pay 2% GDP either. It is a guideline. Likewise, if you're going to run for president, it's probably best not to use shady loopholes to pay the least amount of tax possible.
"shady loopholes"? If we simplified tax code in the method that Trump has suggested, then maybe we wouldn't need to be calling legal maneuvers shady loopholes. Honestly, without the deductions available, our economy would be crippled. The effective tax rate of a corporation in the US that doesn't use any shady loopholes is the highest on the planet.
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- Continuing to defend stop and frisk after being told again and again it's unconstitutional. Not just for racial bias, but because it is anti-fourth amendment and gives police power to search you without warrant or cause. It is ironic that Trump, the seemingly pro-second amendment candidate, is suggesting illegal searches to take away guns.
Stop-and-frisk was never ruled unconstitutional, and in fact Trump showed us that he understands the court system well enough to point out why. The SCOTUS ruled that stop-and-frisk is constitutional in Terry v Ohio. What Lester Holt was referencing was a single circuit court judge trying to rule otherwise, which Trump is correct that an appeal would have easily overturned that judge's decision.
Neither of you are quite right. The Terry decision held that a stop-and-frisk based on reasonable suspicion doesn't violate the Fourth Amendment rights of the suspect. The case they were talking about, Floyd v. City of New York, was about equal protection, not the Fourth Amendment, and it was about stop-and-frisk as practiced by the NYPD specifically, not the practice as a general concept. Would the city have won their appeal if they had kept at it, who knows, but they would have had to rely on a lot more than just the Terry decision. It is nice to see that you're acknowledging the ruling was made, though. It's more than I can say for Trump, who denied it and then delivered the irrelevant aside of "It went before a judge, who was a very against-police judge. It was taken away from her," as if to imply that she was kicked off the case instead of ruling on it.
Also, it was a district court judge, not a circuit court judge. Circuit courts are the ones that hear appeals.
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"shady loopholes"? If we simplified tax code in the method that Trump has suggested, then maybe we wouldn't need to be calling legal maneuvers shady loopholes.
Literally every candidate says they will simplify the tax code and none of them do.
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"shady loopholes"? If we simplified tax code in the method that Trump has suggested, then maybe we wouldn't need to be calling legal maneuvers shady loopholes.
Literally every candidate says they will simplify the tax code and none of them do.
Status quo ahoy!
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Strong start by Hillary, referencing the gender wage gap because why the fuck not
I only listened to part of the debate but one of the comments she made was condemning trump for thinking women should only be paid equal to men if they do as much work as men. I don't get it. Shouldn't equal work equals equal pay? Is she saying women should be paid the same regardless on how much work they do? If so then she's really not for equal pay. She's for superior pay for women.
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"shady loopholes"? If we simplified tax code in the method that Trump has suggested, then maybe we wouldn't need to be calling legal maneuvers shady loopholes.
Literally every candidate says they will simplify the tax code and none of them do.
Status quo ahoy!
If we simplify the tax code, millions of Americans and businesses would not get a check from the IRS. Also, thousands of accountants and tax prep experts would be out of work.
Just think: your average joe would rather have a check in the mail in April than pay slightly less in taxes a week over a year's time. Big sum is better than lots of tiny ones, even if the money is identical.
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Birtherism, therefore racism!!!
Do you really think that the birther movement wasn't racist to the core? Really?
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Strong start by Hillary, referencing the gender wage gap because why the fuck not
I only listened to part of the debate but one of the comments she made was condemning trump for thinking women should only be paid equal to men if they do as much work as men. I don't get it. Shouldn't equal work equals equal pay? Is she saying women should be paid the same regardless on how much work they do? If so then she's really not for equal pay. She's for superior pay for women.
Smart Trump would have called her out by saying something like "Are you saying women don't do as good a job as men?" But Trump was not smart Trump that night.
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Trump is a super sassy, teenage, drama queen.
Clinton was all practice and script.
Both were pretty shit, but I think the practiced liar is more on par with being a president.
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Trump is a super sassy, teenage, drama queen.
Clinton was all practice and script.
Both were pretty shit, but I think the practiced liar is more on par with being a president.
One is a verified war monger who has spent the past decade tearing apart middle eastern nations for only god knows why.
Trump is hilarious but likely won't do any genuine damage to the planet. Hillary will just continue enforcing an economic bubble and failed foreign policy.
The terrible things that Trump says he wants to do are actually up to Congress, the terrible things Hillary wants to do are actually up to Hillary. It's a pretty major difference. I fully believe that Hillary wants to go to war with Russia.
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Birtherism, therefore racism!!!
Do you really think that the birther movement wasn't racist to the core? Really?
Do you have evidence? I didn't hear anything about Carson being accused of not being a true US citizen.
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Birtherism, therefore racism!!!
Do you really think that the birther movement wasn't racist to the core? Really?
Do you have evidence? I didn't hear anything about Carson being accused of not being a true US citizen.
Because...
His name is Ben and he's Republican.
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Trump is a super sassy, teenage, drama queen.
Clinton was all practice and script.
Both were pretty shit, but I think the practiced liar is more on par with being a president.
One is a verified war monger who has spent the past decade tearing apart middle eastern nations for only god knows why.
Trump is hilarious but likely won't do any genuine damage to the planet. Hillary will just continue enforcing an economic bubble and failed foreign policy.
The terrible things that Trump says he wants to do are actually up to Congress, the terrible things Hillary wants to do are actually up to Hillary. It's a pretty major difference. I fully believe that Hillary wants to go to war with Russia.
Yes, so more on par with being a president.
Just because Trump seems harmless doesn't mean we should give it to the buffoon trying to add something new to his resume.
Remember, I'm voting Gary. So I don't have a horse in this particular race. They're both awful, one of them is just aware of what they're doing as opposed to one who wants to let his VP take care of both domestic and foreign policy.
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I'm voting Gary.
quoted for mf truth
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The terrible things that Trump says he wants to do are actually up to Congress, the terrible things Hillary wants to do are actually up to Hillary. It's a pretty major difference. I fully believe that Hillary wants to go to war with Russia.
I'm pretty sure that firing at Iranian boats would be under the purview of the Commander in Chief. So would the shitty Supreme Court judges he's picked out from the Heritage Foundation catalog.
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The terrible things that Trump says he wants to do are actually up to Congress, the terrible things Hillary wants to do are actually up to Hillary. It's a pretty major difference. I fully believe that Hillary wants to go to war with Russia.
I'm pretty sure that firing at Iranian boats would be under the purview of the Commander in Chief. So would the shitty Supreme Court judges he's picked out from the Heritage Foundation catalog.
Firing at an Iranian boat wouldn't start a war. We could pop Iranian boats all day and they could do literally nothing about it.
"War" to America now is just us invading other people, so unless we invade Iran, there would be no war.
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The terrible things that Trump says he wants to do are actually up to Congress, the terrible things Hillary wants to do are actually up to Hillary. It's a pretty major difference. I fully believe that Hillary wants to go to war with Russia.
I'm pretty sure that firing at Iranian boats would be under the purview of the Commander in Chief. So would the shitty Supreme Court judges he's picked out from the Heritage Foundation catalog.
Firing at an Iranian boat wouldn't start a war. We could pop Iranian boats all day and they could do literally nothing about it.
"War" to America now is just us invading other people, so unless we invade Iran, there would be no war.
Yeah, they can't do shit to us! Except fly some planes into some buildings, or bomb an embassy, or hold some citizens as spies, or conduct some state-sponsored terrorism. Other than that, can't touch us. #Murica.
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The terrible things that Trump says he wants to do are actually up to Congress, the terrible things Hillary wants to do are actually up to Hillary. It's a pretty major difference. I fully believe that Hillary wants to go to war with Russia.
I'm pretty sure that firing at Iranian boats would be under the purview of the Commander in Chief. So would the shitty Supreme Court judges he's picked out from the Heritage Foundation catalog.
Firing at an Iranian boat wouldn't start a war. We could pop Iranian boats all day and they could do literally nothing about it.
"War" to America now is just us invading other people, so unless we invade Iran, there would be no war.
Yeah, they can't do shit to us! Except fly some planes into some buildings, or bomb an embassy, or hold some citizens as spies, or conduct some state-sponsored terrorism. Other than that, can't touch us. #Murica.
Not to mention build that nuke the republicans say they can make.
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Birtherism, therefore racism!!!
Do you really think that the birther movement wasn't racist to the core? Really?
Do you have evidence? I didn't hear anything about Carson being accused of not being a true US citizen.
Because...
His name is Ben and he's Republican.
So if anything it's bias against a different party, rather than it being racist.
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Birtherism, therefore racism!!!
Do you really think that the birther movement wasn't racist to the core? Really?
Do you have evidence? I didn't hear anything about Carson being accused of not being a true US citizen.
Because...
His name is Ben and he's Republican.
So if anything it's bias against a different party, rather than it being racist.
Nah.
It's kinda both.
The racist element was perpetuated BECAUSE Obama is a different party than those traditionally racist. And because he does not have an American name.
So it's "He's Black AND he has a foreign name. Thus, must be born in another country."
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Birtherism, therefore racism!!!
Do you really think that the birther movement wasn't racist to the core? Really?
Do you have evidence? I didn't hear anything about Carson being accused of not being a true US citizen.
Why would anyone accuse Carson of not being a natural-born citizen? He didn't have what Obama had - a foreign-sounding name, a Kenyan father, a supposed birth in the isolated and vaguely-foreign state of Hawaii, his childhood years spent in foreign countries, etc. To put it another way, birtherism didn't begin and end with the fact that Obama had black skin. There were a lot of different aspects to it, but they were all rooted in the bigoted notion that he was an "other," based on very superficial grounds.
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Birtherism, therefore racism!!!
Do you really think that the birther movement wasn't racist to the core? Really?
Do you have evidence? I didn't hear anything about Carson being accused of not being a true US citizen.
Because...
His name is Ben and he's Republican.
So if anything it's bias against a different party, rather than it being racist.
Nah.
It's kinda both.
The racist element was perpetuated BECAUSE Obama is a different party than those traditionally racist. And because he does not have an American name.
If you want to talk about who is traditionally racists its the democrats. Do you know who opposed the freedom of slaves? The democrats. Do you know who started the KKK? A democrat. The people who opposed women's right to vote were democrats.
So it's "He's Black AND he has a foreign name. Thus, must be born in another country."
Why did Obama hid is birth certificate for a while and produced a fake one? Plus anylizing the official story he was born to a foriegn father so of course there would be questions. And can you name anyone who said "he's black and has a foriegn name therefore he must be from a foriegn nation"?
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Birtherism, therefore racism!!!
Do you really think that the birther movement wasn't racist to the core? Really?
Do you have evidence? I didn't hear anything about Carson being accused of not being a true US citizen.
Why would anyone accuse Carson of not being a natural-born citizen? He didn't have what Obama had - a foreign-sounding name, a Kenyan father, a supposed birth in the isolated and vaguely-foreign state of Hawaii, his childhood years spent in foreign countries, etc. To put it another way, birtherism didn't begin and end with the fact that Obama had black skin. There were a lot of different aspects to it, but they were all rooted in the bigoted notion that he was an "other," based on very superficial grounds.
Evidence?
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If you want to talk about who is traditionally racists its the democrats. Do you know who opposed the freedom of slaves? The democrats. Do you know who started the KKK? A democrat. The people who opposed women's right to vote were democrats.
You are correct.
And now they aren't. Now the group advocating progressiveness are Democrats.
Explain that one.
So it's "He's Black AND he has a foreign name. Thus, must be born in another country."
Why did Obama hid is birth certificate for a while and produced a fake one? Plus anylizing the official story he was born to a foriegn father so of course there would be questions. And can you name anyone who said "he's black and has a foriegn name therefore he must be from a foriegn nation"?
He didn't. Birth records are public.
He didn't produce a fake one. Please provide evidence.
Yes, because a foreign BORN person has NEVER had children in the US... ::) Even so, citizenship is based on both parents, not just one. The mother was a US citizen so even if he was born abroad, he'd still be naturalized, provided he spent enough time in the US before a certain age. (I'm not sure what the laws used to be but I know what they are now.)
And while I can't name anyone, I'm pretty sure someone has made that connection. At the very least "His name is Is Barrak Hussain Obama. Hussain is a Muslim name, therefore he's muslim." was common enough for the common man to quote.
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The terrible things that Trump says he wants to do are actually up to Congress, the terrible things Hillary wants to do are actually up to Hillary. It's a pretty major difference. I fully believe that Hillary wants to go to war with Russia.
I'm pretty sure that firing at Iranian boats would be under the purview of the Commander in Chief. So would the shitty Supreme Court judges he's picked out from the Heritage Foundation catalog.
Firing at an Iranian boat wouldn't start a war. We could pop Iranian boats all day and they could do literally nothing about it.
"War" to America now is just us invading other people, so unless we invade Iran, there would be no war.
Yeah, they can't do shit to us! Except fly some planes into some buildings, or bomb an embassy, or hold some citizens as spies, or conduct some state-sponsored terrorism. Other than that, can't touch us. #Murica.
They try to do those things right now, so I'm not sure what your point is.
Terrorist attacks are fueled by a third world religion, not American aggression.
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If you want to talk about who is traditionally racists its the democrats. Do you know who opposed the freedom of slaves? The democrats. Do you know who started the KKK? A democrat. The people who opposed women's right to vote were democrats.
You are correct.
And now they aren't. Now the group advocating progressiveness are Democrats.
Explain that one.
You said "traditionally" first of all and second progressivism has turn racist with things like black lives matter.
So it's "He's Black AND he has a foreign name. Thus, must be born in another country."
Why did Obama hid is birth certificate for a while and produced a fake one? Plus anylizing the official story he was born to a foriegn father so of course there would be questions. And can you name anyone who said "he's black and has a foriegn name therefore he must be from a foriegn nation"?
He didn't. Birth records are public.
He didn't produce a fake one. Please provide evidence.
Here you go.
https://www.occupycorporatism.com/obamas-lawyers-officially-admit-birth-certificate-is-fake/
Yes, because a foreign BORN person has NEVER had children in the US... ::) Even so, citizenship is based on both parents, not just one. The mother was a US citizen so even if he was born abroad, he'd still be naturalized, provided he spent enough time in the US before a certain age. (I'm not sure what the laws used to be but I know what they are now.)
In order to be president both of your parents must be naturally born citizens.
And while I can't name anyone, I'm pretty sure someone has made that connection. At the very least "His name is Is Barrak Hussain Obama. Hussain is a Muslim name, therefore he's muslim." was common enough for the common man to quote.
Obama has expressed in various but subtle ways that he is indeed a Muslim.
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If you want to talk about who is traditionally racists its the democrats. Do you know who opposed the freedom of slaves? The democrats. Do you know who started the KKK? A democrat. The people who opposed women's right to vote were democrats.
You are correct.
And now they aren't. Now the group advocating progressiveness are Democrats.
Explain that one.
You said "traditionally" first of all and second progressivism has turn racist with things like black lives matter.
Yes. And also mostly southern US people. But fair enough. "Racism can be found in more common in the Souther US amoung whites who are also members or supporters of the current Republican Party."
Better?
As for BLM...
Not the place to talk about it.
Here you go.
https://www.occupycorporatism.com/obamas-lawyers-officially-admit-birth-certificate-is-fake/
Oh god! Wow, its been blown wide open. The truth revealed! I'm sure all the politicians are racing on this news!
Oh wait, 404.
Did you, you know, click the link before posting?
In order to be president both of your parents must be naturally born citizens.
No. My son could be president. His mother is Norwegian.
Obama has expressed in various but subtle ways that he is indeed a Muslim.
Right.
So, back on target, anyone think the debate mattered?
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"Racism can be found in more common in the Souther US amoung whites who are also members or supporters of the current Republican Party."
Better?
As for BLM...
Not the place to talk about it.
No, sorry, you can't do that. "Racists are white Southern Republicans. As for other racists... Uhhhh, this isn't the time and place to talk about them!"
Why don't we flip it on its head? Racists are predominantly black members of Occupy Democrats. After all, this isn't the time and place to talk about the American South!
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"Racism can be found in more common in the Souther US amoung whites who are also members or supporters of the current Republican Party."
Better?
As for BLM...
Not the place to talk about it.
No, sorry, you can't do that. "Racists are white Southern Republicans. As for other racists... Uhhhh, this isn't the time and place to talk about them!"
Why don't we flip it on its head? Racists are predominantly black members of Occupy Democrats. After all, this isn't the time and place to talk about the American South!
That's why I added more common
But fine!
Racism is everywhere.
Every human is racist in some fashion.
Some are worse than others.
Happy?
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Yes. BLM are, of course, worse than other racists, since they much more frequently loot and pillage towns which are already struggling with poverty.
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Yes. BLM are, of course, worse than other racists, since they much more frequently loot and pillage towns which are already struggling with poverty.
I'd say angry people but sure, why not. Cops kill unarmed people all the time, regardless of race. Remember when that little white kid was shot to death when he waved that toy gun?
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I'd say angry people but sure, why not. Cops kill unarmed people all the time, regardless of race.
Very unfortunately, cops kill people from certain backgrounds, which sometimes happen to coincide with race for a multitude of reasons, mostly historical and cultural. It's a difficult subject, but setting black neighborhoods on fire is not the solution. But hey, nice strawman, living life without nuance must be blissful.
Remember when that little white kid was shot to death when he waved that toy gun?
Assuming you're mistaken about the "little kid", I think I do. I'm not sure. Which of the 13 cases from this year are you referring to? My guess is Jeffrey Casale.
Anyway, some numbers and stats for you, just in case you wanted to check your beliefs:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/
I especially recommend filtering by race and weapon :^)
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I see...
Well, there goes my opinion. So with this new data I must conclude:
I can trust no one. Not the media, not social media, not even myself. Everyone has the potential to manipulate their data set to fit their agenda, myself included.
Thus, there is no way for me to come to an educated conclusion anymore about any subject as there is no way for me to verify any of the data. Not even that database you posted. Like, for example, those numbers are very convincing. Whites have died far more often than blacks: 330 to 174 respectively. But that's not in line with population percentage. At 12% of the US population they account for 24% of all police shootings. So it's pretty clear that something else is the cause of such deaths.
But that's impossible to determine since everything is manipulated. I don't even trust what I just wrote.
I guess what I'm saying is:
I have no counter argument and have decided to just ignore the whole situation. I can't do anything. I can't help. I can't even determine what (or if) there's a problem. So why should I bother? I'll just sit here and drink tea.
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That's probably the wisest approach to the situation I've heard to date. And no, I'm not trying to be snarky.
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Ah, good. Finally Lord Dave is seeing the cynical moderate approach.
Also, there was never anything you could do to help. Even if you think blacks are being killed at high numbers, all you can really do is be good to the people around you and raise your kids to do the same.
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Ah, good. Finally Lord Dave is seeing the cynical moderate approach.
Also, there was never anything you could do to help. Even if you think blacks are being killed at high numbers, all you can really do is be good to the people around you and raise your kids to do the same.
Apathy. Is that really the solution?
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/ineligible.asp
If we're going to say that BLM is racist based on common association with people spouting racist rhetoric, then there should be no doubt that the birthers are racist as well. Luke's goofy arguments certainly haven't lend much credence to their supposed sincerity. That being said, rioting is the utter worst and people who try to defend it have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Seriously, any time I read a stupid article with a headline saying something like "Don't condemn the rioters too harshly," or "These rioters have a right to be mad," I know that the author isn't familiar with the history of rioting and doesn't understand just how incredibly destructive and dangerous they always end up being.
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Ah, good. Finally Lord Dave is seeing the cynical moderate approach.
Also, there was never anything you could do to help. Even if you think blacks are being killed at high numbers, all you can really do is be good to the people around you and raise your kids to do the same.
Apathy. Is that really the solution?
I think you missed something.
That's not apathy, it's understanding your place in the world and what actually changes things. Riots and acting on your ignorant feelings doesn't do anything.
Also, as a Southern American, it's a poverty issue and not a racial one. Ghettos are everywhere and it's full of uneducated and violent humans that happen to be mostly black. I honestly am not even sure you can really understand that until you spend some time here.
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Ah, good. Finally Lord Dave is seeing the cynical moderate approach.
Also, there was never anything you could do to help. Even if you think blacks are being killed at high numbers, all you can really do is be good to the people around you and raise your kids to do the same.
Apathy. Is that really the solution?
I think you missed something.
That's not apathy, it's understanding your place in the world and what actually changes things. Riots and acting on your ignorant feelings doesn't do anything.
Also, as a Southern American, it's a poverty issue and not a racial one. Ghettos are everywhere and it's full of uneducated and violent humans that happen to be mostly black. I honestly am not even sure you can really understand that until you spend some time here.
I didn't miss it. I'm just wondering what the point is. If you're nice, you just get taken advantage of by the system, society, or just plain killed. I've been nice and look at me?
And you're probably right. I doubt I'll truly understand it without going there. And I don't want to be there for any length of time because of what I've heard.
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lol
Then I guess you don't understand what "be good to people" means. Obviously don't let yourself be a spineless twit, but don't be racist, an asshole alt-right, or a hateful libtard. Just help out your neighbor if/when you can and treat them with kindness. Treat people with respect and your kids will learn from your example, then so on and so forth.
The South is actually quite lovely, you're missing out on a lot if you let fear driven media make your choices. Just don't live next to the ghetto, be in the city alone at night, or expect the drivers to be any decent. But hey - I've done all those things and I'm fine.
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lol
Then I guess you don't understand what "be good to people" means. Obviously don't let yourself be a spineless twit, but don't be racist, an asshole alt-right, or a hateful libtard. Just help out your neighbor if/when you can and treat them with kindness. Treat people with respect and your kids will learn from your example, then so on and so forth.
The South is actually quite lovely, you're missing out on a lot if you let fear driven media make your choices. Just don't live next to the ghetto, be in the city alone at night, or expect the drivers to be any decent. But hey - I've done all those things and I'm fine.
Everyone's racist.
And why just your neighbor? Why not someone from across town? Across state? The world? Why should we care about the people living within 500 feet vs people living far away?
Fear was keeping me out of ghettos, not the south.
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I'd say angry people but sure, why not. Cops kill unarmed people all the time, regardless of race.
Very unfortunately, cops kill people from certain backgrounds, which sometimes happen to coincide with race for a multitude of reasons, mostly historical and cultural. It's a difficult subject, but setting black neighborhoods on fire is not the solution. But hey, nice strawman, living life without nuance must be blissful.
Remember when that little white kid was shot to death when he waved that toy gun?
Assuming you're mistaken about the "little kid", I think I do. I'm not sure. Which of the 13 cases from this year are you referring to? My guess is Jeffrey Casale.
Anyway, some numbers and stats for you, just in case you wanted to check your beliefs:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/
I especially recommend filtering by race and weapon :^)
Do you know of any effort to correlate the over representation of African Americans to any factor? (Racism, economics, etc...)?
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Everyone's racist.
What are you talking about?
And why just your neighbor? Why not someone from across town? Across state? The world? Why should we care about the people living within 500 feet vs people living far away?
Um, because most people aren't financially able to do anything about those people. If you consider the world your neighbor and you can feed and educate them all, then fucking go for it.
I was trying to be realistic but apparently you want to be an idealist that hasn't personally accomplished anything himself. Unless you're housing orphans or feeding a village in Africa that we don't know about?
Fear was keeping me out of ghettos, not the south.
Ok.. well I was referring to the South in general. Why would you go to the ghetto? And by ghetto - I'm literally referring to government housing.
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Everyone's racist.
Everyone has racist thoughts and impulses, don't act on them.
And why just your neighbor? Why not someone from across town? Across state? The world? Why should we care about the people living within 500 feet vs people living far away?
My interpretation of Rooster's advice is to proceed simply. Don't try and solve the whole problem at once, but start with the obvious steps you can take in the everyday reality you live in. A wise person once said, "People overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what they can do in a decade."
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Everyone's racist.
What are you talking about?
Implicit bias from society. I see a black man and my first reaction is fear. No other reason than "he looks scary". Everyone has such things about some race. It's simply due to society implanting these ideas in our heads.
And why just your neighbor? Why not someone from across town? Across state? The world? Why should we care about the people living within 500 feet vs people living far away?
Um, because most people aren't financially able to do anything about those people. If you consider the world your neighbor and you can feed and educate them all, then fucking go for it.
I was trying to be realistic but apparently you want to be an idealist that hasn't personally accomplished anything himself. Unless you're housing orphans or feeding a village in Africa that we don't know about?
No, I mean, why them and not someone else. Let's say you can help one person. What makes them so special? Just because they live next to you? If that's the case then it's out of your own self interest, isn't it? By being good/nice/helping to them, they either accept you in some social circle or help/be good to you back.
Fear was keeping me out of ghettos, not the south.
Ok.. well I was referring to the South in general. Why would you go to the ghetto? And by ghetto - I'm literally referring to government housing.
I dunno. Same reason I might go to Alabama?
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Implicit bias from society. I see a black man and my first reaction is fear. No other reason than "he looks scary". Everyone has such things about some race. It's simply due to society implanting these ideas in our heads.
Please see the definition of racism. If you literally think you're superior to a black person simply because of their skin, then yes, you're racist.
If you're scared of a skulking black dude in a hoodie on an urban street in the middle of the night - then you're just protecting yourself. I'd be scared of a white dude in the same situation.
If you're literally scared of every black person you encounter then that might be a you thing and not an everybody thing.
No, I mean, why them and not someone else. Let's say you can help one person. What makes them so special? Just because they live next to you? If that's the case then it's out of your own self interest, isn't it? By being good/nice/helping to them, they either accept you in some social circle or help/be good to you back.
You're taking "neighbor" too literally. Anyone that you personally know you can help. For most people, that's gonna be someone who lives near you geographically because you actually interact with them and would know when/if they need help. It could be your coworkers, someone you see having car troubles on the side of the road, or a woman at the grocery store (ie the people around you).
Which is why I've repeatedly backed this up by saying if you are able to help out people across the world then go for it.
I can't even fathom why you're arguing against doing small acts of kindness and treating people with respect on a daily basis. I'm not arguing against doing grand things, I'm simply saying that you should at least strive to be a good person to the people around you.
I dunno. Same reason I might go to Alabama?
You do know the Smoky Mountains are fucking gorgeous right? And there's a ton of historical and just plain beautiful landmarks in the South, plus the food here is bomb af. We have New Orleans, Savannah GA, Gatlinburg TN, Disney World, the Appalachian Trail, etc. People come from all over the world to see the South. Not to mention, people from out of town honestly do say how nice everyone is here. But none of these things will ever take you to government housing.
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If you want to talk about who is traditionally racists its the democrats. Do you know who opposed the freedom of slaves? The democrats. Do you know who started the KKK? A democrat. The people who opposed women's right to vote were democrats.
You are correct.
And now they aren't. Now the group advocating progressiveness are Democrats.
Explain that one.
You said "traditionally" first of all and second progressivism has turn racist with things like black lives matter.
Yes. And also mostly southern US people. But fair enough. "Racism can be found in more common in the Souther US amoung whites who are also members or supporters of the current Republican Party."
Better?
As for BLM...
Not the place to talk about it.
Yes it is if you're willing to talk about redneck southern hillbillies as racist.
Here you go.
https://www.occupycorporatism.com/obamas-lawyers-officially-admit-birth-certificate-is-fake/
Oh god! Wow, its been blown wide open. The truth revealed! I'm sure all the politicians are racing on this news!
Oh wait, 404.
Did you, you know, click the link before posting?
Sorry. Sometimes I get lazy and read what the search engine comes up with. Here's one that actually works.
http://www.govtslaves.info/obamas-lawyers-officially-admit-birth-certificate-fake/
In order to be president both of your parents must be naturally born citizens.
No. My son could be president. His mother is Norwegian.
I found out that in this case you're right. If someone was born on US soul then he's a natural born citizen. However if he's born abroad then both of his parents must be natural born citizens. As a side note I was born abroad and my parents are natural born. However this doesn't negate the birth certificate issue.
Obama has expressed in various but subtle ways that he is indeed a Muslim.
Right.
So, back on target, anyone think the debate mattered?
I'm on the fence on this one. Trump said some things that can turn a lot of would be voters off like stop and frisk and no fly no buy.
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Someone debunking the forged birth certificate myth.
www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/29/expert-says-obamas-birth-certificate-legit.amp.html?client=safari
Let the blog wars begin!
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Implicit bias from society. I see a black man and my first reaction is fear. No other reason than "he looks scary". Everyone has such things about some race. It's simply due to society implanting these ideas in our heads.
Please see the definition of racism. If you literally think you're superior to a black person simply because of their skin, then yes, you're racist.
If you're scared of a skulking black dude in a hoodie on an urban street in the middle of the night - then you're just protecting yourself. I'd be scared of a white dude in the same situation.
If you're literally scared of every black person you encounter then that might be a you thing and not an everybody thing.
I'm mostly referring to the bias like I see a black man and immediately watch them closely or will more quickly assume they're up to something wrong vs a white man or even a woman. Less superior and more less innocent or negative assumptions.
No, I mean, why them and not someone else. Let's say you can help one person. What makes them so special? Just because they live next to you? If that's the case then it's out of your own self interest, isn't it? By being good/nice/helping to them, they either accept you in some social circle or help/be good to you back.
You're taking "neighbor" too literally. Anyone that you personally know you can help. For most people, that's gonna be someone who lives near you geographically because you actually interact with them and would know when/if they need help. It could be your coworkers, someone you see having car troubles on the side of the road, or a woman at the grocery store (ie the people around you).
Which is why I've repeatedly backed this up by saying if you are able to help out people across the world then go for it.
I can't even fathom why you're arguing against doing small acts of kindness and treating people with respect on a daily basis. I'm not arguing against doing grand things, I'm simply saying that you should at least strive to be a good person to the people around you.
Yeah, this was a really dick thing for me to say and argue. I was snapping at everyone. Lack of good sleep over long periods of time does that to me. So, sorry for being a dick. You're right, of course.
I dunno. Same reason I might go to Alabama?
You do know the Smoky Mountains are fucking gorgeous right? And there's a ton of historical and just plain beautiful landmarks in the South, plus the food here is bomb af. We have New Orleans, Savannah GA, Gatlinburg TN, Disney World, the Appalachian Trail, etc. People come from all over the world to see the South. Not to mention, people from out of town honestly do say how nice everyone is here. But none of these things will ever take you to government housing.
I'm not one for nature, personally. Plus, now that I live in Norway, I've got nature all over. I'm in a "technology city" and it's still got enough forest around it to get lost for days in.
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Someone debunking the forged birth certificate myth.
www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/29/expert-says-obamas-birth-certificate-legit.amp.html?client=safari
Let the blog wars begin!
Here's evidence to the contrary.
http://www.mrconservative.com/2014/02/32199-breaking-confirmed-obama-birth-certificate-forged/
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Trump himself said Obama was born in the US.
I don't think any source you put out, Luke, is going to be reputable after that.
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Anyone who's still a birther at this point is religiously committed to their position. There's no point in arguing with them.
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I'm mostly referring to the bias like I see a black man and immediately watch them closely or will more quickly assume they're up to something wrong vs a white man or even a woman. Less superior and more less innocent or negative assumptions.
Maybe that's the case if you don't see or interact with them often? I don't know, I've been around a lot of blacks my whole life in school and at work, I've even lived with a black woman.. I don't have this bias.
It's not the color of their skin but definitely if they look ghetto and poor then I'll be more likely to assume something. But again, I'm suspicious like that with wigger looking skeezy white boys too.
I'm not one for nature, personally. Plus, now that I live in Norway, I've got nature all over. I'm in a "technology city" and it's still got enough forest around it to get lost for days in.
Only a few of the things I listed were actually nature related, but okay. If it were just about nature I don't think we'd get tourists from all over the world.
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Trump himself said Obama was born in the US.
I don't think any source you put out, Luke, is going to be reputable after that.
First of because he recanted doesn't mean it isn't true. Second, I don't believe I ever claimed that Obama was born outside the US. What I have claimed was that if we're to go by his birth certificate then his father is a foriegner and I thought you need both parents to be US born citizens in order to be president. I have also claimed that Obama's birth certificate is fake which doesn't negate him being a natural born citizen.
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Trump himself said Obama was born in the US.
I don't think any source you put out, Luke, is going to be reputable after that.
First of because he recanted doesn't mean it isn't true. Second, I don't believe I ever claimed that Obama was born outside the US. What I have claimed was that if we're to go by his birth certificate then his father is a foriegner and I thought you need both parents to be US born citizens in order to be president. I have also claimed that Obama's birth certificate is fake which doesn't negate him being a natural born citizen.
You haven't looked up what the requirements for your parentage are to be president? Well, I will save you the google search, you have to be born in the US, it doesn't matter where your parents were born. There have been 6 presidents who have had a parent of foreign citizenship.
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I have also claimed that Obama's birth certificate is fake which doesn't negate him being a natural born citizen.
It kinda does. Why fake it otherwise? No US birth certificate is going to list anything that would cause Obama issues.
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Trump himself said Obama was born in the US.
I don't think any source you put out, Luke, is going to be reputable after that.
First of because he recanted doesn't mean it isn't true. Second, I don't believe I ever claimed that Obama was born outside the US. What I have claimed was that if we're to go by his birth certificate then his father is a foriegner and I thought you need both parents to be US born citizens in order to be president. I have also claimed that Obama's birth certificate is fake which doesn't negate him being a natural born citizen.
You haven't looked up what the requirements for your parentage are to be president? Well, I will save you the google search, you have to be born in the US, it doesn't matter where your parents were born. There have been 6 presidents who have had a parent of foreign citizenship.
I found that out earlier.
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I have also claimed that Obama's birth certificate is fake which doesn't negate him being a natural born citizen.
It kinda does. Why fake it otherwise? No US birth certificate is going to list anything that would cause Obama issues.
Unless his true father is a communist America hater. I reccomend you watch "dreams of my real father" if you want the details.
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I have also claimed that Obama's birth certificate is fake which doesn't negate him being a natural born citizen.
It kinda does. Why fake it otherwise? No US birth certificate is going to list anything that would cause Obama issues.
Unless his true father is a communist America hater. I reccomend you watch "dreams of my real father" if you want the details.
Who cares if his father was a communist America hater?
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I have also claimed that Obama's birth certificate is fake which doesn't negate him being a natural born citizen.
It kinda does. Why fake it otherwise? No US birth certificate is going to list anything that would cause Obama issues.
Unless his true father is a communist America hater. I reccomend you watch "dreams of my real father" if you want the details.
Right.
Let me ask you something. Honestly.
Are you your father?
Are your beliefs, manners, and entire personality and world views a mirror image of your father? Are you, in essence, him?
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I have also claimed that Obama's birth certificate is fake which doesn't negate him being a natural born citizen.
It kinda does. Why fake it otherwise? No US birth certificate is going to list anything that would cause Obama issues.
Unless his true father is a communist America hater. I reccomend you watch "dreams of my real father" if you want the details.
Right.
Let me ask you something. Honestly.
Are you your father?
Are your beliefs, manners, and entire personality and world views a mirror image of your father? Are you, in essence, him?
In many beliefs yes. My father however isn't too keen on gun rights as I am. He believes that we have the right to keep and bear arms but he thinks they're too dangerous.
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I have also claimed that Obama's birth certificate is fake which doesn't negate him being a natural born citizen.
It kinda does. Why fake it otherwise? No US birth certificate is going to list anything that would cause Obama issues.
Unless his true father is a communist America hater. I reccomend you watch "dreams of my real father" if you want the details.
Right.
Let me ask you something. Honestly.
Are you your father?
Are your beliefs, manners, and entire personality and world views a mirror image of your father? Are you, in essence, him?
In many beliefs yes. My father however isn't too keen on gun rights as I am. He believes that we have the right to keep and bear arms but he thinks they're too dangerous.
Then if you are not 100℅ your father, why would it matter who Obama's father was? Especially if he didn't raise him?
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I have also claimed that Obama's birth certificate is fake which doesn't negate him being a natural born citizen.
It kinda does. Why fake it otherwise? No US birth certificate is going to list anything that would cause Obama issues.
Unless his true father is a communist America hater. I reccomend you watch "dreams of my real father" if you want the details.
Right.
Let me ask you something. Honestly.
Are you your father?
Are your beliefs, manners, and entire personality and world views a mirror image of your father? Are you, in essence, him?
In many beliefs yes. My father however isn't too keen on gun rights as I am. He believes that we have the right to keep and bear arms but he thinks they're too dangerous.
Then if you are not 100℅ your father, why would it matter who Obama's father was? Especially if he didn't raise him?
Because both of them have communist views. Besides, this doesn't negate whether Obama's birth certificate is fake or not.
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You brought it up so, presumably you think it is relevant. Why do you think it is relevant that his father may have been a communist?
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I have also claimed that Obama's birth certificate is fake which doesn't negate him being a natural born citizen.
It kinda does. Why fake it otherwise? No US birth certificate is going to list anything that would cause Obama issues.
Unless his true father is a communist America hater. I reccomend you watch "dreams of my real father" if you want the details.
Right.
Let me ask you something. Honestly.
Are you your father?
Are your beliefs, manners, and entire personality and world views a mirror image of your father? Are you, in essence, him?
In many beliefs yes. My father however isn't too keen on gun rights as I am. He believes that we have the right to keep and bear arms but he thinks they're too dangerous.
Then if you are not 100℅ your father, why would it matter who Obama's father was? Especially if he didn't raise him?
Because both of them have communist views. Besides, this doesn't negate whether Obama's birth certificate is fake or not.
What Rama said.
Your claim is that the birth certificate is fake simply because the father is different yet then claim both had communist values so what you're saying is...
Obama faked his birth certificate to hide his real father by putting on one that's similar? Doesn't make any sense man. You're grasping straws.
On topic:
Whose ready for debate 2? Think Donald will actually prepare?
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I think Donald thought he was well prepared for the first one and won, so.... no he won't prepare.
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I think Donald thought he was well prepared for the first one and won, so.... no he won't prepare.
New York Times says he was moping in Trump Tower today watching CNN and Twittering. So no, not preparing.
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The God Emperor is always prepared!
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I had a response but something went wrong so I'll just sum it up by saying you should watch "dreams of my real father" and we can get back on topic.