The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Community => Topic started by: Jai_mav on August 23, 2017, 03:22:28 AM

Title: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Jai_mav on August 23, 2017, 03:22:28 AM
Hello everyone. I just recently became a Flat Earther. With the solar eclipse happening yesterday, I became curious about the "special glasses". With NASA lying about almost everything, I feel as though NASA is lying about needing them as well. Of course, you can't stare at the sun for long periods on any given day. But what makes the solar eclipse so special to the point that people can't look at it without having some sort of negative reaction? I saw some Flat Earthers on Twitter discussing the glasses and claiming that NASA is trying to hide the truth by using the glasses. I'm just curious about what you all think. Do you believe what they say? Do you think they are trying to hide something? And did any of you look at the eclipse without the eclipse glasses?
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: StinkyOne on August 23, 2017, 03:44:35 AM
You could also use #14 welding goggles. I guess NASA faked those, as well. Also, NASA doesn't make the glasses. They just say don't be stupid and stare at the sun, which apparently is something flat Earthers need reminded of.

As for what makes the solar eclipse different, nothing. It is still absolutely the same unless you are in totality, but that only lasts a couple minutes. The Sun is still every bit as bright in the parts that aren't blocked by the moon and will still damage your eyes. It was about 80% covered where I was and while it was a bit darker out, the sun was still overpowering to glance at.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: model 29 on August 23, 2017, 04:05:33 AM
I became curious about the "special glasses".
Dark filters.... yep.  Pretty spooky stuff.

Quote
With NASA lying about almost everything, I feel as though NASA is lying about needing them as well.
I mean, if you don't want to go blind...

Quote
Of course, you can't stare at the sun for long periods on any given day.
So short periods are ok?

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But what makes the solar eclipse so special to the point that people can't look at it without having some sort of negative reaction?
What negative reaction?

Quote
I saw some Flat Earthers on Twitter discussing the glasses and claiming that NASA is trying to hide the truth by using the glasses.
Or using the glasses so you can view it.

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I'm just curious about what you all think. Do you believe what they say? Do you think they are trying to hide something?
My friends got their glasses from the credit union, so they must be in on it too.  Yes.  No.

Quote
And did any of you look at the eclipse without the eclipse glasses?
Yes, during totality.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: TomInAustin on August 23, 2017, 02:41:44 PM
Hello everyone. I just recently became a Flat Earther. With the solar eclipse happening yesterday, I became curious about the "special glasses". With NASA lying about almost everything, I feel as though NASA is lying about needing them as well. Of course, you can't stare at the sun for long periods on any given day. But what makes the solar eclipse so special to the point that people can't look at it without having some sort of negative reaction? I saw some Flat Earthers on Twitter discussing the glasses and claiming that NASA is trying to hide the truth by using the glasses. I'm just curious about what you all think. Do you believe what they say? Do you think they are trying to hide something? And did any of you look at the eclipse without the eclipse glasses?

My only advice to you is this.  Try and use logic and reason when thinking about a flat earth.  Ask yourself these.  Why would NASA try to trick you?  What possible gains would they get from tricking you?   Why would they not just shift to studying a closed system as described by FE?  Would it not be infinitely more interesting if the sun and the moon were only 3000 miles away? 

What drives science is the concept of "interesting".   Not conspiracy.    Mankind has explored the world as long an we have been here.   
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: J-Man on August 23, 2017, 06:29:17 PM
I was at a casino during the eclipse and the canopy over the valet parking area had a glass type structure over it which looked similar to a "polarized" glass. You could view the eclipse readily as many were, employees continuously. I peaked briefly and then used the glasses normally I had purchased.

It seemed much safer with the glasses and the detail seemed much more clear.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Rounder on August 24, 2017, 06:43:26 AM
...Of course, you can't stare at the sun for long periods on any given day. But what makes the solar eclipse so special to the point that people can't look at it without having some sort of negative reaction?
Nothing.  The eclipse doesn't suddenly make it dangerous to look, it's always dangerous.  What the eclipse does is make it tempting to look.  Now that the eclipse is over, there's nothing to see and nobody is tempted to look.  But you could, on any day of the year, safely look at the sun with eclipse glasses.

...did any of you look at the eclipse without the eclipse glasses?
I looked DURING totality only, when the corona was the only part of the sun that was visible.  I had solar filters on my camera and binoculars, and when the last sliver of sun vanished, I looked at the sun without filters.  Other than that, I certainly hope nobody did what you suggest.  I may argue and fight with you FE types, but that doesn't mean I actually bear you any ill will.  I definitely wouldn't wish blindness on any of you.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Hmmm on August 24, 2017, 10:22:07 AM
The whole thing about glasses and becoming blind after observing an eclipse is probably another indoctrination we've been overfed with to become fearful and not ask questions.
All the statistics, reports about blindness rate can and will be rigged. It's not so hard to fake something, if you have a lot of money and squeeze socio-economical status of humans working in related organizations.
If you practice sungazing regularly, the eclipse won't do nothing to your vision, also it could be, but less possible, an egregore thing.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: StinkyOne on August 24, 2017, 12:16:45 PM
The whole thing about glasses and becoming blind after observing an eclipse is probably another indoctrination we've been overfed with to become fearful and not ask questions.
All the statistics, reports about blindness rate can and will be rigged. It's not so hard to fake something, if you have a lot of money and squeeze socio-economical status of humans working in related organizations.
If you practice sungazing regularly, the eclipse won't do nothing to your vision, also it could be, but less possible, an egregore thing.

And this, folks, is why we had to listen to every news channel in the nation warn us for weeks not to look at the eclipse. Weirdos like this guy that think you can stare at the sun without damaging your eyes. Tell ya what, go outside at noon and stare at the sun for 30 seconds or so and let us know the results. (not that you'd be able to because the pain would cause you to look away) The sun is one of the easiest objects in the sky to study as long as you have a solar filter for your telescope. There is no freaking conspiracy about the sun. Spend a hundred dollars on a cheap solar telescope and see for yourself.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Rounder on August 24, 2017, 01:35:59 PM
If you practice sungazing regularly, the eclipse won't do nothing to your vision
True, because you'll already be blind if you've been regularly looking at the sun, the eclipse would have no opportunity to do additional damage.

Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: geckothegeek on August 24, 2017, 04:03:43 PM
If you practice sungazing regularly, the eclipse won't WILL do NOTHING to your vision
True, because you'll already be blind if you've been regularly looking at the sun, the eclipse would have no opportunity to do additional damage.

Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.

If you do sun gazing without a filter, you will probably see NOTHING  afterwards.

Seriously :
Once again.:
Best place to do some sun gazing is at an observatory.
Some of them have special cameras with filters and with close-circuit tv's so you can see a large picture of the sun - eclipse or not - safely.

And maybe not to be taken so seriouly : ???
News Flash !
I read where a total eclipse will be visible in Texas in 2024.
A team of Texas A&M Aggies are planning a sun landing to land on the sun and explore the sun.
Just to be safe they plan to do this at night or during a total eclipse.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: TomInAustin on August 24, 2017, 06:16:24 PM
If you practice sungazing regularly, the eclipse won't WILL do NOTHING to your vision
True, because you'll already be blind if you've been regularly looking at the sun, the eclipse would have no opportunity to do additional damage.

Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.

If you do sun gazing without a filter, you will probably see NOTHING  afterwards.

Seriously :
Once again.:
Best place to do some sun gazing is at an observatory.
Some of them have special cameras with filters and with close-circuit tv's so you can see a large picture of the sun - eclipse or not - safely.

And maybe not to be taken so seriouly : ???
News Flash !
I read where a total eclipse will be visible in Texas in 2024.
A team of Texas A&M Aggies are planning a sun landing to land on the sun and explore the sun.
Just to be safe they plan to do this at night or during a total eclipse.

The 2024 is supposed to be a total here in Austin.  That will be awesome
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: model 29 on August 24, 2017, 06:29:36 PM
Spend a hundred dollars on a cheap solar telescope and see for yourself.
$5 for a #14 or 15 welding lens and cheap compact binos will let you watch an eclipse, see sunspots, transits, etc.  Add a cheap point and shoot camera and something to steady the binos and you can get pictures as well. 

The 2024 is supposed to be a total here in Austin.  That will be awesome
Ever watched one before?  I drove about a hundred miles  (just checked on mapquest, 130 miles) south to watch it in Oregon.  Not having to go anywhere would be great.  I do have some relatives in Austin... I might even consider flying down there.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Hmmm on August 24, 2017, 08:06:41 PM
Quote
why we had to listen to every news channel in the nation warn us
StinkyOne, be aware(=beware) that usually news channels are just brainwashing us, and the human workers at news companies are even more heavily brainwashed and tricked than we are.

StinkyOne, i'm personally sungazing uninterruptedly literally everyday for hour and a half with blinking. And still nothing happened to me, and i don't want anything happening to me.
If i was blind, i wouldn't be here posting, i would have some sort of a long depression.
Why are you so afraid of looking at the sun with your bare eyes regularly?

Quote
There is no freaking conspiracy about the sun.
I will never agree on that. I'm still researching both sun and moon. The conspiracy is that the sun is 80-100% artificial, not natural, technologically made plasma/hologram/complex system object(sun simulator) and it exists in multitudes(nibiru sightings (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nibiru%2C+short%2C+week)). Instead of a sun, there is a "sun system", that consists of multiple of suns sometimes interchanging one another and working at a variable/constant looping paths above different regions of earth.

Quote
Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.
Rounder, i know that "kids" is just a locution, but it sounds so ironical, that you use it on the FE forum.
No, i'm sincere about being able capable of sungazing regularly for hours. It's not a problem for me.

Quote
A team of Texas A&M Aggies are planning a sun landing to land on the sun and explore the sun.
Just to be safe they plan to do this at night or during a total eclipse.
geckothegeek, and why are they gonna plan to do this at night, is it because the sun "changes it's mode" and becomes darker-orange, less bright, less hot and visible, when looking at the sky at sunset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXUDaLT9kCI)? My argument/arguments might sound stupid, but consider it/them.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Curious Squirrel on August 24, 2017, 08:23:36 PM
Quote
why we had to listen to every news channel in the nation warn us
StinkyOne, be aware(=beware) that usually news channels are just brainwashing us, and the human workers at news companies are even more heavily brainwashed and tricked than we are.

StinkyOne, i'm personally sungazing uninterruptedly literally everyday for hour and a half with blinking. And still nothing happened to me, and i don't want anything happening to me.
If i was blind, i wouldn't be here posting, i would have some sort of a long depression.
Why are you so afraid of looking at the sun with your bare eyes regularly?

Quote
There is no freaking conspiracy about the sun.
I will never agree on that. I'm still researching both sun and moon. The conspiracy is that the sun is 80-100% artificial, not natural, technologically made plasma/hologram/complex system object(sun simulator) and it exists in multitudes(nibiru sightings (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nibiru%2C+short%2C+week)). Instead of a sun, there is a "sun system", that consists of multiple of suns sometimes interchanging one another and working at a variable/constant looping paths above different regions of earth.

Quote
Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.
Rounder, i know that "kids" is just a locution, but it sounds so ironical, that you use it on the FE forum.
No, i'm sincere about being able capable of sungazing regularly for hours. It's not a problem for me.

Quote
A team of Texas A&M Aggies are planning a sun landing to land on the sun and explore the sun.
Just to be safe they plan to do this at night or during a total eclipse.
geckothegeek, and why are they gonna plan to do this at night, is it because the sun "changes it's mode" and becomes darker-orange, less bright, less hot and visible, when looking at the sky at sunset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXUDaLT9kCI)? My argument/arguments might sound stupid, but consider it/them.

Pics or it didn't (doesn't?) happen. Seriously. Any normal person will tell you it's painful to look directly at the sun, and for good reason. If you're doing it either you're lying (my personal guess), you think sungazing is something completely different than what is being described, you are actually using proper protective equipment, or you've actually damaged your eyes and you just think the way you view things is normal (likely a nice big central area you can't see). I suppose you could just be the lizard alien you claim world leaders are, attempting to throw everyone off the scent by acting like a loony though.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: TomInAustin on August 24, 2017, 08:42:13 PM
Spend a hundred dollars on a cheap solar telescope and see for yourself.
$5 for a #14 or 15 welding lens and cheap compact binos will let you watch an eclipse, see sunspots, transits, etc.  Add a cheap point and shoot camera and something to steady the binos and you can get pictures as well. 

The 2024 is supposed to be a total here in Austin.  That will be awesome
Ever watched one before?  I drove about a hundred miles south to watch it in Oregon.  Not having to go anywhere would be great.  I do have some relatives in Austin... I might even consider flying down there.


I have never seen a total.  That will be cool.  This time we only had a tad under 70% so all we did was make a silly projector.  Next time I'll do some real optics.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: StinkyOne on August 24, 2017, 08:46:32 PM
Quote
why we had to listen to every news channel in the nation warn us
StinkyOne, be aware(=beware) that usually news channels are just brainwashing us, and the human workers at news companies are even more heavily brainwashed and tricked than we are.

StinkyOne, i'm personally sungazing uninterruptedly literally everyday for hour and a half with blinking. And still nothing happened to me, and i don't want anything happening to me.
If i was blind, i wouldn't be here posting, i would have some sort of a long depression.
Why are you so afraid of looking at the sun with your bare eyes regularly?

Quote
There is no freaking conspiracy about the sun.
I will never agree on that. I'm still researching both sun and moon. The conspiracy is that the sun is 80-100% artificial, not natural, technologically made plasma/hologram/complex system object(sun simulator) and it exists in multitudes(nibiru sightings (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nibiru%2C+short%2C+week)). Instead of a sun, there is a "sun system", that consists of multiple of suns sometimes interchanging one another and working at a variable/constant looping paths above different regions of earth.

Quote
Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.
Rounder, i know that "kids" is just a locution, but it sounds so ironical, that you use it on the FE forum.
No, i'm sincere about being able capable of sungazing regularly for hours. It's not a problem for me.

Quote
A team of Texas A&M Aggies are planning a sun landing to land on the sun and explore the sun.
Just to be safe they plan to do this at night or during a total eclipse.
geckothegeek, and why are they gonna plan to do this at night, is it because the sun "changes it's mode" and becomes darker-orange, less bright, less hot and visible, when looking at the sky at sunset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXUDaLT9kCI)? My argument/arguments might sound stupid, but consider it/them.
Hmmm, I don't believe you stare at the Sun for an hour+ per day without blinking. I don't believe you can keep your eyes open for an hour without blinking regardless of what you're looking at. I can't tell if you're playing games with your comments, a weird, confused kid, or just plain "out there." The Sun doesn't change it's mode or become less hot. It doesn't change output by any appreciable amount and it never "goes out", so to speak. The sun is always up somewhere.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: geckothegeek on August 24, 2017, 10:49:05 PM
Quote
why we had to listen to every news channel in the nation warn us
StinkyOne, be aware(=beware) that usually news channels are just brainwashing us, and the human workers at news companies are even more heavily brainwashed and tricked than we are.

StinkyOne, i'm personally sungazing uninterruptedly literally everyday for hour and a half with blinking. And still nothing happened to me, and i don't want anything happening to me.
If i was blind, i wouldn't be here posting, i would have some sort of a long depression.
Why are you so afraid of looking at the sun with your bare eyes regularly?

Quote
There is no freaking conspiracy about the sun.
I will never agree on that. I'm still researching both sun and moon. The conspiracy is that the sun is 80-100% artificial, not natural, technologically made plasma/hologram/complex system object(sun simulator) and it exists in multitudes(nibiru sightings (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nibiru%2C+short%2C+week)). Instead of a sun, there is a "sun system", that consists of multiple of suns sometimes interchanging one another and working at a variable/constant looping paths above different regions of earth.

Quote
Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.
Rounder, i know that "kids" is just a locution, but it sounds so ironical, that you use it on the FE forum.
No, i'm sincere about being able capable of sungazing regularly for hours. It's not a problem for me.

Quote
A team of Texas A&M Aggies are planning a sun landing to land on the sun and explore the sun.
Just to be safe they plan to do this at night or during a total eclipse.
geckothegeek, and why are they gonna plan to do this at night, is it because the sun "changes it's mode" and becomes darker-orange, less bright, less hot and visible, when looking at the sky at sunset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXUDaLT9kCI)? My argument/arguments might sound stupid, but consider it/them. ;D ;D

Hmmm-
It's just an old, old, old  "Aggie Joke" that has been around for some time.  ;D
My apologies to all concerned for same.  ::)
Your arguments are lots less stupid than the joke. :)
Please don't take it seriously although I will admit it is a pretty seriously bad joke.  :P
Humor gets a bit weird at times at College Station as I am sure TomInAustin (are you a T-Sipper ?) will agree. ::)
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: geckothegeek on August 24, 2017, 11:23:19 PM
If you practice sungazing regularly, the eclipse won't WILL do NOTHING to your vision
True, because you'll already be blind if you've been regularly looking at the sun, the eclipse would have no opportunity to do additional damage.

Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.

If you do sun gazing without a filter, you will probably see NOTHING  afterwards.

Seriously :
Once again.:
Best place to do some sun gazing is at an observatory.
Some of them have special cameras with filters and with close-circuit tv's so you can see a large picture of the sun - eclipse or not - safely.

And maybe not to be taken so seriouly : ???
News Flash !
I read where a total eclipse will be visible in Texas in 2024.
A team of Texas A&M Aggies are planning a sun landing to land on the sun and explore the sun.
Just to be safe they plan to do this at night or during a total eclipse.

The 2024 is supposed to be a total here in Austin.  That will be awesome

Same here in Irving.
I didn't notice much difference in brightness here in Irving.
You could see the little "crescents" on the sidewalk  where the sun was shining through the leaves on the trees.
(Acting like pinhole cameras.)
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Fist of Nee on August 25, 2017, 12:11:20 AM
When someone looks at the sun your iris constricts because of the bright light, and this helps protect your eye from damage.
During an eclipse the moon has blocked out most of the visible light (the spectrum we can see),
in effect your eye will not constrict and can be damaged by UV and other light we cannot see.

I would not recommend looking at the sun for long periods of time with out proper filters.  I doubt looking at a solar eclipse for a few seconds with the bare eye will do any serious permanent damage.  It is not unrealistic to think that some dipshit may stair at an eclipse for 30 min or so and blind themselves.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: TomInAustin on August 25, 2017, 05:25:31 PM
Quote
why we had to listen to every news channel in the nation warn us
StinkyOne, be aware(=beware) that usually news channels are just brainwashing us, and the human workers at news companies are even more heavily brainwashed and tricked than we are.

StinkyOne, i'm personally sungazing uninterruptedly literally everyday for hour and a half with blinking. And still nothing happened to me, and i don't want anything happening to me.
If i was blind, i wouldn't be here posting, i would have some sort of a long depression.
Why are you so afraid of looking at the sun with your bare eyes regularly?

Quote
There is no freaking conspiracy about the sun.
I will never agree on that. I'm still researching both sun and moon. The conspiracy is that the sun is 80-100% artificial, not natural, technologically made plasma/hologram/complex system object(sun simulator) and it exists in multitudes(nibiru sightings (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nibiru%2C+short%2C+week)). Instead of a sun, there is a "sun system", that consists of multiple of suns sometimes interchanging one another and working at a variable/constant looping paths above different regions of earth.

Quote
Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.
Rounder, i know that "kids" is just a locution, but it sounds so ironical, that you use it on the FE forum.
No, i'm sincere about being able capable of sungazing regularly for hours. It's not a problem for me.

Quote
A team of Texas A&M Aggies are planning a sun landing to land on the sun and explore the sun.
Just to be safe they plan to do this at night or during a total eclipse.
geckothegeek, and why are they gonna plan to do this at night, is it because the sun "changes it's mode" and becomes darker-orange, less bright, less hot and visible, when looking at the sky at sunset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXUDaLT9kCI)? My argument/arguments might sound stupid, but consider it/them. ;D ;D

Hmmm-
It's just an old, old, old  "Aggie Joke" that has been around for some time.  ;D
My apologies to all concerned for same.  ::)
Your arguments are lots less stupid than the joke. :)
Please don't take it seriously although I will admit it is a pretty seriously bad joke.  :P
Humor gets a bit weird at times at College Station as I am sure TomInAustin (are you a T-Sipper ?) will agree. ::)

Tsip here. 
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 25, 2017, 09:06:01 PM
Nothing.  The eclipse doesn't suddenly make it dangerous to look, it's always dangerous.  What the eclipse does is make it tempting to look.  Now that the eclipse is over, there's nothing to see and nobody is tempted to look.  But you could, on any day of the year, safely look at the sun with eclipse glasses.
This isn't just your usual kind of bring horribly wrong about everything. You're being wrong in ways that may potentially harm people if they listen to you. Luckily, your reputation here means it's unlikely anyone would take you seriously to begin with.

During an eclipse, your eyes receive much less visible light than they otherwise would from the sun, so your pupils dilate. But you're still exposed to an unsafe level of UV, which now goes straight into your eye and onto the retina. That's why looking at the sun during the eclipse unprotected is particularly dangerous. Do not do it.

There is also the issue of timing. Your pupil dilates massively during a total eclipse, so once the sun becomes visible again, it smashes your wide-open retina with an immense barrage of photons.

http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae586.cfm
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Rounder on August 25, 2017, 09:06:55 PM
i'm personally sungazing uninterruptedly literally everyday for hour and a half with blinking. And still nothing happened to me, and i don't want anything happening to me.
Liar, liar, eyeballs on fire.

Quote
Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.
Rounder, i know that "kids" is just a locution, but it sounds so ironical, that you use it on the FE forum.
No, i'm sincere about being able capable of sungazing regularly for hours. It's not a problem for me.
I'm sure it's not, because I'm sure you're not actually doing it. 

Honestly dude, if you're going to troll at least try to be believable about it.

Or maybe this is you (https://www.indy100.com/article/rapper-joey-badass-looks-solar-eclipse-immediately-regrets-it-tour-cancelled-blindness-twitter-7911801)?
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Rounder on August 25, 2017, 09:10:26 PM
Nothing.  The eclipse doesn't suddenly make it dangerous to look, it's always dangerous.  What the eclipse does is make it tempting to look.  Now that the eclipse is over, there's nothing to see and nobody is tempted to look.  But you could, on any day of the year, safely look at the sun with eclipse glasses.
This isn't just your usual kind of bring horribly wrong about everything. You're being wrong in ways that may potentially harm people if they listen to you.

During an eclipse, your eyes receive much less visible light than they otherwise would from the sun, so your pupils dilate. But you're still exposed to an unsafe level of UV, which now goes straight into your eye and onto the retina. That's why looking at the sun during the eclipse unprotected is particularly dangerous. Do not do it.

There is also the issue of timing. Your pupil dilates massively during a total eclipse, so once the sun becomes visible again, it smashes your wide-open retina with an immense barrage of photons.

http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae586.cfm

Read it again.  I didn't say to look unprotected.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 25, 2017, 09:13:13 PM
Read it again.  I didn't say to look unprotected.
You said "The eclipse doesn't suddenly make it dangerous to look, it's always dangerous." This is extremely wrong and extremely dangerous. Don't say it again, thanks.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Rounder on August 25, 2017, 09:15:07 PM
Read it again.  I didn't say to look unprotected.
You said "The eclipse doesn't suddenly make it dangerous to look, it's always dangerous." This is extremely wrong and extremely dangerous. Don't say it again, thanks.
No, you're wrong.  Are you seriously going to disagree with the statement "it's always dangerous"?
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 25, 2017, 09:17:50 PM
No, you're wrong.  Are you seriously going to disagree with the statement "it's always dangerous"?
I'm going to do my best to protect the members of this forum from your extremely reckless allegation that "The eclipse doesn't suddenly make it dangerous to look". It does, in fact, make it much more dangerous to look. So much more dangerous that I can't help but suspect (especially now that you're defending this insanity) that you deliberately said otherwise in an attempt to cause harm.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Curious Squirrel on August 25, 2017, 09:28:20 PM
No, you're wrong.  Are you seriously going to disagree with the statement "it's always dangerous"?
I'm going to do my best to protect the members of this forum from your extremely reckless allegation that "The eclipse doesn't suddenly make it dangerous to look". It does, in fact, make it much more dangerous to look. So much more dangerous that I can't help but suspect (especially now that you're defending this insanity) that you deliberately said otherwise in an attempt to cause harm.
He said the eclipse doesn't suddenly make it dangerous to look, it's always dangerous. That does not preclude the ability for the eclipse to make it more dangerous, it only precludes it NOT being dangerous when the eclipse isn't out. The eclipse making it more dangerous does not change the fact that it's always dangerous to look at the sun, nor does it change the fact the eclipse doesn't suddenly make it dangerous when it wasn't before. Those are the two points in the sentence. A) The sun isn't suddenly dangerous to look at just because there's an eclipse. Followed by the explanation B) The sun is always dangerous to look at. Nothing there makes it impossible or even really implies, that it can't be more dangerous to look during an eclipse.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Rounder on August 25, 2017, 10:35:26 PM
To recap: the original question was "what makes the solar eclipse so special to the point that people can't look at it without having some sort of negative reaction?"  My reply was that it isn't about the eclipse, because it isn't ONLY during the eclipse that you can't look at the sun: you can't EVER look at the sun unprotected.  The eclipse doesn't cause the danger, the danger is always there; the eclipse causes people to WANT to look DESPITE the ever-present danger.  Any other day of the year, you don't have to tell people not to look at the sun, because most people aren't idiots and already know not to look at the sun.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Rounder on August 25, 2017, 10:37:24 PM
I'm going to do my best to protect the members of this forum from your extremely reckless allegation that "The eclipse doesn't suddenly make it dangerous to look". It does, in fact, make it much more dangerous to look.
It doesn't, though.  BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS DANGEROUS ALREADY

We are essentially arguing about "What is it about putting arsenic in tea that make arsenic so dangerous?"  It's not about the tea: arsenic is always deadly!  The tea just makes it easier to get the poison down.  For our discussion, it's not about the eclipse: looking at the sun is always dangerous!  The eclipse just makes it easier to forget that.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 26, 2017, 08:04:50 AM
That does not preclude the ability for the eclipse to make it more dangerous, it only precludes it NOT being dangerous when the eclipse isn't out.
Rounder's statement of "The eclipse doesn't suddenly make it dangerous to look" does, in fact, directly contradict your defence. He did, openly and directly, state that the eclipse is no more dangerous than just looking at the sun on a normal day. That's an extremely dangerous thing to say if there's any risk of a random newcomer believing this known liar.

It doesn't, though.  BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS DANGEROUS ALREADY
Touching a hot stove is mildly dangerous. You might get burnt. Jumping into a burning building is super dangerous. You might get burnt alive.

You're trying to equate the two by saying heat is always dangerous (except with a very revealing abuse of formatting). In doing so, you massively underrate the potential damage of staring at an eclipse, thus potentially making the threat seem acceptable to some.

It's appalling that you'd try to defend yourself over this rather than immediately apologise and delete your shite post. I now have no doubt that you're acting with harmful intent, and I will continue to bring this up in future encounters to warn others against your 4chan-esque games.

We are essentially arguing about "What is it about putting arsenic in tea that make arsenic so dangerous?"  It's not about the tea: arsenic is always deadly!  The tea just makes it easier to get the poison down.  For our discussion, it's not about the eclipse: looking at the sun is always dangerous!  The eclipse just makes it easier to forget that.
No. My first post here has already detailed two main ways (and that wasn't a comprehensive list) in which looking at an eclipse is inherently more dangerous than looking at the sun. Your attempts at denying that this has happened, and a simple restatement of your original dangerous suggestion are extremely telling. If this was a case of you just being uneducated, you would have already accepted the knowledge I served you on a golden platter. But what you want is to spread your falsity. Appalling.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Rounder on August 26, 2017, 04:15:48 PM
What are you talking about, "harmful intent"?  I clearly and repeatedly said it was dangerous to look at the eclipse unprotected.  The fact that I don't agree with you about an eclipse being somehow super extra ultra dangerous, that's not the same as dismissing the very real danger.

it's always dangerous...I certainly hope nobody did what (Jai_mav) suggest.  I may argue and fight with you FE types, but that doesn't mean I actually bear you any ill will.  I definitely wouldn't wish blindness on any of you.

If you practice sungazing regularly, the eclipse won't do nothing to your vision
Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.

Tell you what, I'll make it plain in case somebody else misunderstood me as Pete has:
Do not EVER, under ANY circumstances, look at the sun without the protection of an approved solar filter.

During an eclipse, not during an eclipse, during an ISS or Mercury or Venus transit, during high or low sunspot activity, during whatever else might be going on.

It will ALWAYS be dangerous, it will NEVER be safe, DON'T DO IT!

Got it Pete?
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Tau on August 26, 2017, 04:18:58 PM
What are you talking about, "harmful intent"?  I clearly and repeatedly said it was dangerous to look at the eclipse unprotected.  The fact that I don't agree with you about an eclipse being somehow super extra ultra dangerous, that's not the same as dismissing the very real danger.

it's always dangerous...I certainly hope nobody did what (Jai_mav) suggest.  I may argue and fight with you FE types, but that doesn't mean I actually bear you any ill will.  I definitely wouldn't wish blindness on any of you.

If you practice sungazing regularly, the eclipse won't do nothing to your vision
Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.

Tell you what, I'll make it plain in case somebody else misunderstood me as Pete has:
Do not EVER, under ANY circumstances, look at the sun without the protection of an approved solar filter.

During an eclipse, not during an eclipse, during an ISS or Mercury or Venus transit, during high or low sunspot activity, during whatever else might be going on.

It will ALWAYS be dangerous, it will NEVER be safe, DON'T DO IT!

Got it Pete?

Similarly, it is absolutely vital that one avoid looking directly at the moon. In fact, excessive exposure to lunar radiation is known to cause irreparable internal organ damage.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: geckothegeek on August 27, 2017, 01:51:26 AM
Quote
why we had to listen to every news channel in the nation warn us
StinkyOne, be aware(=beware) that usually news channels are just brainwashing us, and the human workers at news companies are even more heavily brainwashed and tricked than we are.

StinkyOne, i'm personally sungazing uninterruptedly literally everyday for hour and a half with blinking. And still nothing happened to me, and i don't want anything happening to me.
If i was blind, i wouldn't be here posting, i would have some sort of a long depression.
Why are you so afraid of looking at the sun with your bare eyes regularly?

Quote
There is no freaking conspiracy about the sun.
I will never agree on that. I'm still researching both sun and moon. The conspiracy is that the sun is 80-100% artificial, not natural, technologically made plasma/hologram/complex system object(sun simulator) and it exists in multitudes(nibiru sightings (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nibiru%2C+short%2C+week)). Instead of a sun, there is a "sun system", that consists of multiple of suns sometimes interchanging one another and working at a variable/constant looping paths above different regions of earth.

Quote
Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.
Rounder, i know that "kids" is just a locution, but it sounds so ironical, that you use it on the FE forum.
No, i'm sincere about being able capable of sungazing regularly for hours. It's not a problem for me.

Quote
A team of Texas A&M Aggies are planning a sun landing to land on the sun and explore the sun.
Just to be safe they plan to do this at night or during a total eclipse.
geckothegeek, and why are they gonna plan to do this at night, is it because the sun "changes it's mode" and becomes darker-orange, less bright, less hot and visible, when looking at the sky at sunset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXUDaLT9kCI)? My argument/arguments might sound stupid, but consider it/them. ;D ;D

Hmmm-
It's just an old, old, old  "Aggie Joke" that has been around for some time.  ;D
My apologies to all concerned for same.  ::)
Your arguments are lots less stupid than the joke. :)
Please don't take it seriously although I will admit it is a pretty seriously bad joke.  :P
Humor gets a bit weird at times at College Station as I am sure TomInAustin (are you a T-Sipper ?) will agree. ::)

Tsip here.

I just attended some Summer Term classes. Guess that makes me a "Former Student" here.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 27, 2017, 03:58:06 PM
Do not EVER, under ANY circumstances, look at the sun without the protection of an approved solar filter.

During an eclipse, not during an eclipse, during an ISS or Mercury or Venus transit, during high or low sunspot activity, during whatever else might be going on.

It will ALWAYS be dangerous, it will NEVER be safe, DON'T DO IT!
Thanks, that will do. Not quite an apology but at least hopefully any potential damage is undone.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: TomInAustin on August 31, 2017, 05:49:19 PM
Quote
why we had to listen to every news channel in the nation warn us
StinkyOne, be aware(=beware) that usually news channels are just brainwashing us, and the human workers at news companies are even more heavily brainwashed and tricked than we are.

StinkyOne, i'm personally sungazing uninterruptedly literally everyday for hour and a half with blinking. And still nothing happened to me, and i don't want anything happening to me.
If i was blind, i wouldn't be here posting, i would have some sort of a long depression.
Why are you so afraid of looking at the sun with your bare eyes regularly?

Quote
There is no freaking conspiracy about the sun.
I will never agree on that. I'm still researching both sun and moon. The conspiracy is that the sun is 80-100% artificial, not natural, technologically made plasma/hologram/complex system object(sun simulator) and it exists in multitudes(nibiru sightings (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nibiru%2C+short%2C+week)). Instead of a sun, there is a "sun system", that consists of multiple of suns sometimes interchanging one another and working at a variable/constant looping paths above different regions of earth.

Quote
Kids, Hmmm is either a troll or an idiot.  Please do not take his/her words seriously.
Rounder, i know that "kids" is just a locution, but it sounds so ironical, that you use it on the FE forum.
No, i'm sincere about being able capable of sungazing regularly for hours. It's not a problem for me.

Quote
A team of Texas A&M Aggies are planning a sun landing to land on the sun and explore the sun.
Just to be safe they plan to do this at night or during a total eclipse.
geckothegeek, and why are they gonna plan to do this at night, is it because the sun "changes it's mode" and becomes darker-orange, less bright, less hot and visible, when looking at the sky at sunset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXUDaLT9kCI)? My argument/arguments might sound stupid, but consider it/them. ;D ;D

Hmmm-
It's just an old, old, old  "Aggie Joke" that has been around for some time.  ;D
My apologies to all concerned for same.  ::)
Your arguments are lots less stupid than the joke. :)
Please don't take it seriously although I will admit it is a pretty seriously bad joke.  :P
Humor gets a bit weird at times at College Station as I am sure TomInAustin (are you a T-Sipper ?) will agree. ::)

Tsip here.

I just attended some Summer Term classes. Guess that makes me a "Former Student" here.

That gives you a lot more rights than what we call "the adopted alumni".  A vast throng of orange wearing fans.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: 3DGeek on September 02, 2017, 07:24:58 PM
Similarly, it is absolutely vital that one avoid looking directly at the moon. In fact, excessive exposure to lunar radiation is known to cause irreparable internal organ damage.

Actually, it can be dangerous to stare at the moon for a long time...through a telescope.  Focussed moonlight can be really quite bright.  My telescope came with a "moon filter" that you're supposed to use during prolonged lunar observations.   But unmagnified, it's obviously safe.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: MrVaneJ on September 03, 2017, 07:27:16 AM
You could also use #14 welding goggles. I guess NASA faked those, as well. Also, NASA doesn't make the glasses. They just say don't be stupid and stare at the sun, which apparently is something flat Earthers need reminded of.

As for what makes the solar eclipse different, nothing. It is still absolutely the same unless you are in totality, but that only lasts a couple minutes. The Sun is still every bit as bright in the parts that aren't blocked by the moon and will still damage your eyes. It was about 80% covered where I was and while it was a bit darker out, the sun was still overpowering to glance at.

I agree mostly with what you're saying.

NASA doesn't make special glasses, however, if you're going to be staring at the sun for that long of a time period there has to be protective eyewear or else someone is getting sued.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: 3DGeek on September 03, 2017, 02:40:28 PM
You could also use #14 welding goggles. I guess NASA faked those, as well. Also, NASA doesn't make the glasses. They just say don't be stupid and stare at the sun, which apparently is something flat Earthers need reminded of.

As for what makes the solar eclipse different, nothing. It is still absolutely the same unless you are in totality, but that only lasts a couple minutes. The Sun is still every bit as bright in the parts that aren't blocked by the moon and will still damage your eyes. It was about 80% covered where I was and while it was a bit darker out, the sun was still overpowering to glance at.

I think the point that Pete is trying to make here is this:

* The pupils of our eyes change size to allow in more or less light as needed - so we see better at night but don't get dazzled in the daytime.
* During an eclipse, it gets dark.
* Hence the pupils open up wider to allow in more light during totality.
* So when small "beads" of light appear around the edges of the moon, our eyes are allowing in more of that light than they would normally do if you happened to glance at the un-eclipsed sun in daylight.
* Hence, the damage to the retina due to those small beads of light happens faster than the retina would be damaged if you looked at the uneclipsed sun.

What others here are saying - that it's dangerous to look at the uneclipsed sun - is also true...it's just a matter of degree.  What Pete points out is that because of the reaction of the pupil, damage due to staring at the first parts of the sun as it emerges from totality will happen faster than staring at the uneclipsed sun...and that's true.

The pupil can change from about 2mm to 8mm in diameter - giving a 16:1 variation in light input.   Hence, if your pupil was FULLY opened during totality - then damage due to the first rays of sunlight would theoretically happen 16 times faster than if it was fully constricted and staring at an uneclipsed sun.

However, the pupillary response is very fast - just a fraction of a second - so as those first beads of light appear, the increase in overall brightness will ramp up and the iris is going to start shutting out light...so I very much doubt that you'd be looking through a fully open iris for more than a very small fraction of a second.

Everything here depends on how the eye adjusts the iris when there is a very small patch of intense light...and that's something that has not been well studied.

So I score this argument as a tie.   You're both right - you're just arguing about different things - and all of the arguments involved depend very subtly on aspects of how the eye work that I'd lay good odds that none of us here understand.

Bottom line:  Don't look at the sun without the right eye protection...EVER.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Rounder on September 03, 2017, 06:08:37 PM
The pupil can change from about 2mm to 8mm in diameter - giving a 16:1 variation in light input.   Hence, if your pupil was FULLY opened during totality - then damage due to the first rays of sunlight would theoretically happen 16 times faster than if it was fully constricted and staring at an uneclipsed sun.
"16 times faster" would be true only if the amount of light energy in front of the pupil from the first rays of sunlight were equal to the light energy from an uneclipsed sun, which is clearly a preposterous assumption.  Anything less than equal energy reduces the "16 times faster" claim.  The damage rate would be equal if the light energy from an uneclipsed sun was exactly 16x the amount of light energy from those first and last rays of sunlight (from the Baily's Beads / Diamond Ring).  I submit that 16x is still too low a multiplier from Baily's Bead energy to full sun energy, based on the fact that solar filters are required to reduce (http://www.mreclipse.com/Special/filters.html) incoming infrared by a factor of 37 (more than double the 16x figure) and incoming UV and visible light by a factor of 300 (more than eighteen times the 16x figure)!.  Even if we assume some safety factor in those numbers, the naked sun must still be more than 16x as harmful to look at as Baily's Beads are, in which case Baily's Bead naked eye viewing cannot even reach the "just as dangerous" threshold, much less climb into "more dangerous" levels.

It is still dangerous, and I repeat my warning that NOBODY SHOULD LOOK AT THE SUN NAKED-EYE EXCEPT DURING TOTALITY, but that's because it's still dangerous, not because it's more dangerous.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: 3DGeek on September 03, 2017, 07:54:00 PM
The pupil can change from about 2mm to 8mm in diameter - giving a 16:1 variation in light input.   Hence, if your pupil was FULLY opened during totality - then damage due to the first rays of sunlight would theoretically happen 16 times faster than if it was fully constricted and staring at an uneclipsed sun.
"16 times faster" would be true only if the amount of light energy in front of the pupil from the first rays of sunlight were equal to the light energy from an uneclipsed sun, which is clearly a preposterous assumption.

No - it's actually not.

You're thinking about the TOTAL energy entering the eye - and I'm talking about the energy hitting each tiny photo-sensitive cell on the retina.

The thing is with visual damage from people who stared at the sun during eclipse is that they (mostly) didn't go completely blind.  They have a small circular ring of lost vision where the ring of sunlit beads were towards the end of the eclipse.   They have (mostly) normal vision outside of that area.   (I say "mostly" because some people stared at the sun without protection as the eclipse was just beginning - and those people have been more seriously blinded).

For the more common kind of damage - it's not the TOTAL energy entering the eye that matters - it's the amount of energy hitting each individual cell on the retina as the image of the sun is focussed onto it.

Each cell takes damage or doesn't depending on whether a bright part of the image was focussed on it or not.

So even though the total energy entering the eye during the eclipse is MUCH less (because most of the sun is covered up) - the energy hitting individual cells from a "bead" of sunlight is EXACTLY the same as what that cell would take if the sun was not eclipsed and the pupil was dilated to the same degree.   BUT the iris isn't dilated to the same degree - when the world goes dark, the iris opens wider and the per-retinal-cell energy could be as much as 16 times higher (I doubt it's THAT much - but it's definitely more than you'd otherwise expect).

So here is the nuanced answer:

* In full sunlight - the iris shuts out most of the light - but all of the cells onto which the sun's image falls are going to get damaged.
* In eclipsed sunlight - the iris shuts out much less light - but only the cells onto which a 'bead' of sunlight falls will be damaged.

In the first case, the retinal damage is more widespread - but happens more slowly than in the second case.  Exactly how much more faster the damage happens in the second case is at most 16 times faster - but might easily be less than that if the iris is not fully opened by the darkness of the eclipse.

Of course we all agree on the ultimate conclusion - which is that it's dangerous to look at the sun at any time.  Let's not dilute that message.
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: Rounder on September 04, 2017, 05:49:28 PM
You're thinking about the TOTAL energy entering the eye - and I'm talking about the energy hitting each tiny photo-sensitive cell on the retina.

That's a really good point, I hadn't thought of it that way. 

I guess Pete was right and I was wrong, and it actually is more dangerous during the eclipse than not.

This is why I keep coming here, occasionally I'll learn something new!
Title: Re: Solar Eclipse
Post by: 3DGeek on September 05, 2017, 02:15:40 PM
You're thinking about the TOTAL energy entering the eye - and I'm talking about the energy hitting each tiny photo-sensitive cell on the retina.

That's a really good point, I hadn't thought of it that way. 

I guess Pete was right and I was wrong, and it actually is more dangerous during the eclipse than not.

This is why I keep coming here, occasionally I'll learn something new!

No problem, it's a very subtle point - and easily misunderstood.  We get used to being able to quickly GLANCE at the sun for a couple of seconds without much more than an after-image that lasts for ~30 seconds - but during the eclipse, that instinct is derailed.   Even a couple of seconds is too long with the iris full-open.  Far *FAR* too many people have either temporary or permanent damage to their eyes as a result.  I've been looking to see if there are any statistical estimates for how many victims there were.   Pre-eclipse estimates ranged from "hundreds" to "at least a million" - but those were wild-assed guesses.   The only kind of post-eclipse data is the spike in Tweets and Google searches for phrases like "My eyes hurt"...but no solid numbers yet.

We know that most people who suffered are reporting a ring of fuzziness.  We know that the human eye 'saccades' (jiggles around a bit) in order to improve spatial resolution to greater than the density of the "pixels" in the retina.  This is a clever trick of the eye/brain that NASA uses (or doesn't if you're an FE'er) to improve image quality from space probes and rovers.

What that does is to spread the damage to the retina over several adjacent cells - to varying degrees depending on how intently the person focussed on the image.   That explains why the damage is "fuzzy" instead of a sharp ring of damaged vision.

People who have an entire circle of damaged vision rather than a hollow ring probably looked into the sun long before or after totality...which is much worse and combines iris-open and iris-closed damage.

My job (and my passion) is photo-realistic real-time 3D computer graphics - which has turned me into something of a student of human vision and how light propagates.  I've worked in both computer games and professional flight simulation - where realism is demanded by our customers.

When simulating bright and dark scenes in 3D computer graphics, there isn't enough light coming from the computer screen to provoke an iris response - and the ambient room lighting prevents the iris from opening fully during dark scenes.   So to make things look realistic in 3D graphics, you have to SIMULATE what the iris does and artificially brighten dark scenes and dim down bright scenes.   Hence I've studied how the pupil responds to light changes.