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Offline markjo

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Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Reply #120 on: December 12, 2023, 12:37:30 PM »
A rocket is a closed system.

It is a fact it loses matter to its external environment.

It takes in nothing in exchange from its external environment.

All facts.
If that's true, then you shouldn't have any trouble citing a credible source that agrees with you.  If you can't do that, then don't bother replying.
You have not posted anything that disagrees with it.

There are plenty of videos on this forum conclusively demonstrating rockets ejecting matter into the external environment.

It is established a rocket is a closed system.
You have not cited anything that says that a closed system can eject matter into the external environment.   I have cited several examples saying that closed systems cannot eject matter into the external environment.  I can cite more if you want. Can you cite any?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Reply #121 on: December 12, 2023, 06:49:54 PM »
Neither people pushing off each other or shopping carts rolling in a fucking parking lot are analogous to the operation of a rocket.

You are simply gaslighting in your own OP.

“They’re not analogous” then explain why. They really are, and everyone understands this but you.

A cart pushing off a cart is factually operating on the same principle as a rocket pushing off its propellant. Has nothing to do with plumes. If they’re not operating off the same principle, please provide in-depth reasoning and citations.

Gases push on the inside of the rocket pushing it forward, and are expelled backwards. It’s that simple.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2023, 08:29:28 PM by Realestfake »

Offline Action80

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Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Reply #122 on: December 12, 2023, 11:13:11 PM »
A rocket is a closed system.

It is a fact it loses matter to its external environment.

It takes in nothing in exchange from its external environment.

All facts.
If that's true, then you shouldn't have any trouble citing a credible source that agrees with you.  If you can't do that, then don't bother replying.
You have not posted anything that disagrees with it.

There are plenty of videos on this forum conclusively demonstrating rockets ejecting matter into the external environment.

It is established a rocket is a closed system.
You have not cited anything that says that a closed system can eject matter into the external environment. Visual evidence of a rocket exhausting gas is not evidence.

FTFY.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

Offline Action80

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Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Reply #123 on: December 12, 2023, 11:17:51 PM »
Neither people pushing off each other or shopping carts rolling in a fucking parking lot are analogous to the operation of a rocket.

You are simply gaslighting in your own OP.

“They’re not analogous” then explain why. They really are, and everyone understands this but you.

A cart pushing off a cart is factually operating on the same principle as a rocket pushing off its propellant. Has nothing to do with plumes. If they’re not operating off the same principle, please provide in-depth reasoning and citations.

Gases push on the inside of the rocket pushing it forward, and are expelled backwards. It’s that simple.
Jesus, you are really funny.

Compile an op and have 0 clue.

Shopping carts playing "bumper cars", two people are closed system, all of it analogous to the operation of rockets...

Honestly, what you write is so stupid it really is not worth the time.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Reply #124 on: December 13, 2023, 12:48:45 AM »
It still looks like there is a problem with your contention that a rocket is a closed system.  I suppose that you can define your own systems anyway you want, but you can see where it could cause some confusion when you deviate from the scientific norms at use by most scientists and engineers.  When I consult my university thermodynamics textbook, I do find that there can be NO matter transfer in or out of a CLOSED system.  Obviously, a rocket has a very massive exhaust as the majority of a large rocket’s mass is fuel and when the fuel is mostly burned the majority of the initial rocket’s mass has left the system.  Of course, you could include the rocket’s plumb as part of the system boundaries but then those boundaries would have to be continuously expanding over time. 
 
It's also interesting that you consider a human to be an OPEN system.  That definition would be agreeable to most.  Obviously, a human takes in mass in the form of food and water and ejects the waste mass that the body doesn’t use into a toilet somewhere.  That's pretty simular to a rocket that must be fueled before departure (something that is also contrary to a closed system) and then ejects most of the fuel's mass to generate thrust. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_system


The information in the link agrees with my text books so you can count on it being accurate.  Please be more specific, if you can, regarding your unique definition of a CLOSED system and specify its boundaries. 
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!

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Offline markjo

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Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Reply #125 on: December 13, 2023, 01:35:32 AM »
Visual evidence of a rocket exhausting gas is not evidence.

FTFY.
*sigh*
Two simple questions for you:
1) Is momentum conserved in a closed system?
2) Is momentum conserved if matter leaves a closed system?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.