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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #820 on: September 16, 2021, 10:39:49 PM »
Quote from: Shifter
I know Tom loves to get his news from random social media memes or Cucker Tarlson but the claim that people who die in traffic accidents but tested positive for covid recently are being counted in the covid death toll is complete and utter BS

Yet that's how Oregon Health Authority is reporting the deaths, and claim that they are following CDC guidance:

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/questions-over-the-accuracy-of-how-the-state-tracks-covid-deaths/283-0b1b7b6c-695e-4313-92cf-a4cfd7510721

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According to the Oregon Health Authority (OHA), there is no difference when it comes to tracking and reporting COVID deaths. OHA spokesman Jonathan Modie explained in an email how the state determines what is counted as a COVID-19 death:

We consider COVID-19 deaths to be:

Deaths in which a patient hospitalized for any reason within 14 days of a positive COVID-19 test result dies in the hospital or within the 60 days following discharge.

Deaths in which COVID-19 is listed as a primary or contributing cause of death on a death certificate.

We count COVID-19 deaths this way because the virus can often have effects on an individual’s health that may complicate their recovery from other diseases and conditions, even injuries, and indirectly contribute to their death. Another reason is because OHA is using this data to track the spread of the disease, and to create actionable steps for stopping its spread.


So what does that policy mean in practice? We asked Modie about a hypothetical case where someone died from a motorcycle crash and also had COVID-19. Would that be counted as a COVID-19 death?

“It would be,” Modie explained. “But I must go back to the point about how we used this data, which is to help us track how COVID-19 is spread in the community.”

He added that the state follows the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidelines for reporting deaths.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 10:42:05 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #821 on: September 16, 2021, 10:57:14 PM »
Loved the way you cherry picked that article to suit a narrative you like to tell. Read the whole page, it says things differently when put all together in the proper context

Also read this one
https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/BIRTHDEATHCERTIFICATES/VITALSTATISTICS/DEATH/Pages/reporting-covid-deaths.aspx

I know you won't though. Your brain forbids you from seeking information that conflicts with your anti vaxxer indoctrinated BS

Just plod along until you get covid. Then come here and tell us it's BS first hand

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #822 on: September 16, 2021, 10:59:51 PM »
Quote from: Shifter
I know Tom loves to get his news from random social media memes or Cucker Tarlson but the claim that people who die in traffic accidents but tested positive for covid recently are being counted in the covid death toll is complete and utter BS

Yet that's how Oregon Health Authority is reporting the deaths, and claim that they are following CDC guidance:

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/questions-over-the-accuracy-of-how-the-state-tracks-covid-deaths/283-0b1b7b6c-695e-4313-92cf-a4cfd7510721

The article is from a year ago. Do they still count covid deaths in the way described in the article?

As of 9/1/21, Oregon has had 3,538 deaths attributed to Covid in some manner since 3/2020. Is Oregon really a good example of anything considering we're talking about numbers nearing 700,000.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #823 on: September 17, 2021, 01:26:53 AM »
Quote from: Shifter
Loved the way you cherry picked that article to suit a narrative you like to tell.

Cherry picked? I posted a whole bunch of them from other areas and people saying the same thing. See the red bolded quote from Illinois Department of Public Health in the second quote here which spells it out for you:

Dr. Birx says the same:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_unlike_some_countries_if_someone_dies_with_covid-19_we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html

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Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death"

At Tuesday's White House coronavirus press conference, task force member Dr. Deborah Birx said that while some countries are reporting coronavirus fatality numbers differently, in the U.S. you are counted as a victim of the pandemic if you die while testing positive for the virus, even if something else causes your death.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX: "So, I think in this country we've taken a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. Prior to that when there wasn't testing in January and February that's a very different situation and unknown.

There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. Right now we are still recording it and we will I mean the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to market as COVID-19 infection the intent is right now that those if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death."

Illinois Department of Public Health said they count the same way:

https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/

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IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

Still, the department's Director, Dr. Ngozi Ezike used part of her time during Sunday's health briefing to explain how the department determines if a death is related to Coronavirus.

Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

She reiterated Illinois health officials will continue to work vigorously to protect the state's most vulnerable populations.

Lots of quotes and examples here:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/as-u-s-coronavirus-death-toll-mounts-so-does-the-belief-it-is-exaggerated

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“I think a lot of clinicians are putting that condition (COVID-19) on death certificates when it might not be accurate because they died with coronavirus and not of coronavirus,” Macomb County, Mich., Chief Medical Examiner Daniel Spitz in an interview with the Ann Arbor News last month.

...

Colorado counted a man who a county coroner said died of acute alcohol poisoning as a COVID-19 death.

Montezuma County Coroner George Deavers told the Durango Herald the man’s blood-alcohol level was 0.55, or almost seven times the legal driving limit of 0.08 in Colorado. A BAC of 0.3 is considered lethal.

“COVID was not listed on the death certificate as the cause of death,” Deavers said, the paper reported Wednesday. “I disagree with the state for listing it as a COVID death, and will be discussing it with them this week.”

...

News reports have identified the man as Sebastian Yellow, 35, and reported that he was found dead by police May 4.

The Montezuma County Public Health Department also was refusing to report Yellow's death as a COVID-19 death. “The state is reporting that death as a COVID death, but our health department wanted to let people know that even though the person did have the virus, they did not die from it,” the agency said.

In response to a request for comment about Yellow’s death, the Colorado Department of Health told KCNC-TV that it classifies a death as confirmed when there is a positive SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) laboratory test.


...

Last month, the same agency reclassified three deaths at a Centennial nursing home as COVID-19 deaths, challenging the findings of attending physicians who ruled the deaths were unrelated to the virus.

The deaths occurred at Someren Glen, where four other residents died of COVID-19. The state has now recorded all seven deaths as COVID-19 deaths.

“We have never seen a situation where the health department overrules a physician’s findings,” Tim Rogers, the facility’s executive director, told KCNC. “However, these are unprecedented times and the health department official did not share their motivation for changing physician’s orders.”

A health department spokesman told the station of those deaths that the agency was following CDC guidance.

Yeah, super scientific stuff here. The Illinois Department of Public Health says that "even if you died from a clear alternative cause" they will count you as a Covid death. An in-your-face statement that tells you that you're wrong on this.
 
Diabetes death:

https://www.summitdaily.com/news/covid-19-was-not-the-primary-cause-of-death-for-silverthorne-man/

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On April 11, Summit County announced the death of a Silverthorne man in his 60s, who tested positive for the novel coronavirus after his death. On Friday, Summit County Coroner Regan Wood said the man had undiagnosed diabetes and suffered a diabetic ketoacidosis event that resulted in his death. The man also had coronary artery disease, which is related to the diabetes.

While the new coronavirus was not the primary cause of death, it is being listed as a “significant other condition” at the time of death, according to Wood. Because of that, the man still will be counted among the state’s COVID-19 deaths.

They're even doing it to children:

https://www.golocalprov.com/news/3-children-with-covid-have-now-died-in-ri-state-has-3rd-highest-rate-in-u.s

« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 02:40:29 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #824 on: September 17, 2021, 02:16:23 AM »
Colorado:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/12/17/in-colorado-theyre-counting-gun-shot-fatalities-as-covid-deaths-n2581730

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"The coroner, Brenda Bock, says two of their five deaths related to COVID-19 were people who died of gunshot wounds," CBS News Denver reports. "Bock says because they tested positive for COVID-19 within the past 30 days, they were classified as 'deaths among cases.'"

Minnesota:

https://www.lexingtonchronicle.com/news/how-accurate-are-covid-death-reports

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Minnesota Rep. Mary Franson and Sen. Scott Jensen believe the covid death count was inflated. They said they found covid blamed for deaths from falls, a drowning, dementia, stroke and multi-organ failure. Rep. Franson said a man ejected in a car accident was “counted as a covid death” because the virus was in his system.

Florida; a non-hypothetical motorcycle accident counted as a Covid death this time:

https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report

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ORLANDO, Fla. (CBS12) — A man who died in a motorcycle crash was counted as a COVID-19 death in Florida, according to a new report from FOX 35 Orlando.

According to the report, Orange County Health Officer Dr. Raul Pino was asked whether two coronavirus victims in their 20s had any underlying medical conditions that could have potentially made them more susceptible to the virus.

Pino's answer was that one of the two people who was listed as a COVID death actually died in a motorcycle crash. Despite health officials knowing the man died in a motorcycle crash, it is unclear whether or not his death was removed from the overall count in the state.

Dr. Pino tells FOX 35 that one "could actually argue that it could have been the COVID-19 that caused him to crash."

lol
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 02:45:47 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #825 on: September 17, 2021, 02:59:36 AM »
Florida; a non-hypothetical motorcycle accident counted as a Covid death this time:

Update on your motorcycle case, not to mention over a year old, a scant 4 months into the pandemic:

During a press conference July 20, DeSantis pointed to the case of the motorcyclist, saying:

The other thing I’ve asked the Department of Health to look at is there was a case here in Central Florida where somebody, I think they were in their twenties, and they were in a motorcycle accident, and that was counted as a coronavirus death. And a lot of people are like, “How is that possible? You get hit by a car and then you’re attributing it to coronavirus?” And so I want them to go back and look. I think though, the reason that’s the case is because what [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] has said is anybody that tests positive, if they then die, that’s a death amongst cases.

Contrary to what DeSantis stated, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidance doesn’t direct caregivers to list all deaths as COVID-19 deaths simply because the disease was detected in the decedent. Instead, it instructs caregivers to list various factors contributing to death in appropriate sections of death certificates. In other words, it does not state that anyone who suffers an unnatural death such as a traffic accident should be listed as a COVID-19-caused death if they also happen to test positive, even if the disease didn’t cause to their death.

It does appear to the case, however, that a motorcyclist who was killed in a traffic accident also tested positive for COVID-19, and was initially listed among Florida’s COVID-19-related deaths. But officials from the Florida Department of Health said that person has since been removed from the count.

The story about the motorcyclist was initially reported by WOFL, an Orlando-based TV news station, which learned the information in a phone conversation with Orange County Health Officer Dr. Raul Pino. In the July 17 article, WOFL reported:

A person who died in a motorcycle accident was added to Florida’s COVID-19 death count, according to a state health official.

FOX 35 News found this out after asking Orange County Health Officer Dr. Raul Pino whether two coronavirus victims who were in their 20s had any underlying conditions. One of his answers surprised us.

“The first one didn’t have any. He died in a motorcycle accident,” Pino said.

Dr. Pino was asked if the man’s data was removed.

“I don’t think so. I have to double-check,” Pino said. “We were arguing, discussing, or trying to argue with the state. Not because of the numbers — it’s 100…it doesn’t make any difference if it’s 99 — but the fact that the individual didn’t die from COVID-19…died in the crash. But you could actually argue that it could have been the COVID-19 that caused him to crash. I don’t know the conclusion of that one.”

WOFL updated the story two days later to indicate that the motorcyclist death had been removed from the COVID-19 death tally. Kent Donahue, a spokesman for Pino’s office, confirmed that to be the case in a phone interview with Snopes. We therefore list this claim as “Outdated.”


As of 9/1/21, Oregon has had 3,538 deaths attributed to Covid in some manner since 3/2020.
As of 9/1/21, Florida has had 50,811 deaths attributed to Covid in some manner since 3/2020.

Florida removed the 2 motorcycle deaths from the count above a year ago.

So right now, as it stands, you've presented 2-5 deaths attributed to Covid that perhaps shouldn't have been counted out of 670,000. You're down to around 669,995 that are still counted.
You're on a roll, keep chipping away.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 03:18:44 AM by stack »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #826 on: September 17, 2021, 03:08:56 AM »
So it took news articles and national embarrassment to get them to remove it. It was only found out by the reporters because the victim was a special coronavirus victim in their 20's and the motorcycle crash was inadvertently mentioned to the reporters by a doctor, the Orange County Health Officer, who absurdly proceeded to defend it. I consider the action of backtracking on your lies to be irrelevant. I can see that you are pretty desperate though.

Health officials are clearly stating that they consider it to be a Covid death even if there is a clear alternate cause:

https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/

Quote
IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

Still, the department's Director, Dr. Ngozi Ezike used part of her time during Sunday's health briefing to explain how the department determines if a death is related to Coronavirus.

Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

She reiterated Illinois health officials will continue to work vigorously to protect the state's most vulnerable populations.

The Illinois Department of Public Health says directly how it works. Not a coincidence that it's happening in multiple states and they are attributing it to CDC guidance.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 04:22:53 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #827 on: September 17, 2021, 03:35:20 AM »
So it took news articles and national embarrassment to get them to remove it. It was only found out by the reporters because the victim was a special coronavirus victim in their 20's and the motorcycle crash was inadvertnanly mentioned by a doctor, the Orange County Health Officer, who absurdly proceeded to defend it. I consider the action of backtracking on your lies to be irrelevant. I can see that you are pretty desperate though.

Health officials are clearly stating that they consider it to be a Covid death even if there is a clear alternate cause:

https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/

Quote
IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

Still, the department's Director, Dr. Ngozi Ezike used part of her time during Sunday's health briefing to explain how the department determines if a death is related to Coronavirus.

Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

She reiterated Illinois health officials will continue to work vigorously to protect the state's most vulnerable populations.

The Illinois Department of Public Health says directly how it works. Not a coincidence that it's happening in multiple states and they are attributing it to CDC guidance.

Here's what she said in May of 2020:

There are also some additional deaths that happen in someone who happened to be COVID positive, but where the COVID infection had nothing to do with the deaths,” she said. “So we are at IDPH trying to remove those obvious cases where the COVID diagnosis was not the reason for the death. If there was a gunshot wound, if there was a motor vehicle accident, we know that that was not related to the COVID positive status.

“We are trying to make sure that things that aren’t related at all to the COVID diagnosis are removed, but if someone has another illness, like heart disease, and then had a stroke or other event, it’s not as easy to separate that and say COVID didn’t exacerbate that existing illness. That would not be removed from the count,” she added.

Above all else, Ezike said that the state is striving for as much accuracy as possible, presenting a true picture of what is going on statewide when reporting on the number of cases and fatalities related to the virus."

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/dr-ngozi-ezike-refutes-notion-that-illinois-is-over-counting-covid-19-deaths/2270810/

Timing and context is everything. We're going back more than a year. Remember way back in like April of 2020 we were just figuring out this thing was airborne? So much has happened in the past 18 months it's mind numbing.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #828 on: September 17, 2021, 03:44:31 AM »
Did you even read your quote? She relented and wanted to cut out the gunshot victims and motor vehicle accidents but keep anything else slightly biological.

You stumble into the hospital extremely overweight, have stage 4 cancer, high cholesterol and a heart attack? Covid, obviously. You're an Illinois Covid victim. This is just more affirmation on what they're doing. The quote literally says that they aren't putting controls on it outside of the 'obvious' gunshot victims.

It doesn't matter if it was a year ago. If the statistics have been wrong for a year that's pretty bad.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 03:53:55 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #829 on: September 17, 2021, 03:52:35 AM »
Did you even read your quote? She relented wanted to cut out the gunshot victims and motor vehicle accidents but keep anything else slightly biological.

You stumble into the hospital extremely overweight, have stage 4 cancer and a heart attack? Covid, obviously. You're an Illinois Covid victim. This is just more affirmation on what they're doing. The quote literally says that they aren't putting controls on it outside of the 'obvious' gunshot victims.

It doesn't matter if it was a year ago. If the statistics have been wrong for a year that's pretty bad.

So let me get this straight. Let's flip the script and put this a different way. What's the preferred definition of dying of Covid that you would accept? What would you want to see on a death certificate that says, "Yep, died of Covid, let's count it."?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #830 on: September 17, 2021, 05:03:27 AM »
It's possible to figure out the primary cause of someone's death. They figured it out for these children:

https://www.golocalprov.com/news/3-children-with-covid-have-now-died-in-ri-state-has-3rd-highest-rate-in-u.s



If Covid is not the primary cause of death, why list it and publicize it as a Covid death and put it in State records as a Covid death and broadcast it all over the television in a Covid death segment other than for political or scare-tactic reasons? This is duplicitous, unethical behavior.

If they do want to collect secondary conditions they could just be honest about it and break it down instead of presenting it as "Covid Deaths". Presenting it as "Covid Deaths" leads one to assume that it was the lethal primary cause of death. But seeing the statistics of people who died of Cancer with asymptomatic Covid isn't sensational enough for their dirty agenda.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 06:54:22 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #831 on: September 17, 2021, 06:36:39 AM »
It's possible to figure out the primary cause of someone's death. They figured it out for these children:

https://www.golocalprov.com/news/3-children-with-covid-have-now-died-in-ri-state-has-3rd-highest-rate-in-u.s



If Covid is not the primary cause of death, why list it and publicize it as a Covid death and put it in State records as a Covid death and broadcast it all over the television in a Covid death segment other than for political or scare-tactic reasons? This is duplicitous, unethical behavior.

If they do want to collect secondary conditions they could just be honest about it and break it down instead of presenting it as "Covid Deaths". Presenting it as "Covid Deaths" leads one to assume that it was the lethal primary cause of death. But seeing the statistics of people who died of Cancer with asymptomatic Covid isn't sensational enough for their dirty agenda.

You have to look at this critically, which you are not. Example, I had a friend who died from sepsis, the primary cause of death. However, the sepsis was brought on by the fact that she had a cancerous colon tumor that perforated (ruptured, so to speak) and spread throughout her abdominal cavity. Which, in turn, caused her system to go septic. So the primary cause of death on the death certificate was logged as "sepsis". That's what killed her. But her perforated colon tumor is what caused the sepsis, the contributing factor. She wouldn't have died from sepsis if her cancerous tumor hadn't existed and did what it did. She is logged, statistically, as a "cancer death".

From the CDC (Their bolding):

Cause of Death and COVID-19
When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death on the death certificate, it is coded and counted as a death due to COVID-19.
COVID-19 should not be reported on the death certificate if it did not cause or contribute to the death.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/cause-of-death-data-quality.pdf

So your point is understood. But the point is, would these kids, in your RI example, not have died if they didn't have Covid? That's what really matters.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #832 on: September 17, 2021, 07:01:47 AM »
That's an easy one. The person died of the mechanism of sepsis, but died of a disease called cancer. Two different things. No one is confusing "sepsis deaths" as the disease they died from.

In the case of people with multiple diseases, it's usually clear that they died of one thing as the primary disease of death. If another disease may or may not have been contributing, and it's vague, obviously just note it down for further research and don't make that data part of a sensational article claiming a pandemic of epic proportions and scream for worldwide economic shutdowns.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 07:12:46 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #833 on: September 17, 2021, 08:27:57 AM »
That's an easy one. The person died of the mechanism of sepsis, but died of a disease called cancer. Two different things. No one is confusing "sepsis deaths" as the disease they died from.

In the case of people with multiple diseases, it's usually clear that they died of one thing as the primary disease of death. If another disease may or may not have been contributing, and it's vague, obviously just note it down for further research and don't make that data part of a sensational article claiming a pandemic of epic proportions and scream for worldwide economic shutdowns.

You're still missing the point: Would these kids, in your RI example, not have died if they didn't have Covid?

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #834 on: September 17, 2021, 09:09:55 AM »
Don't bother.  I already tried explaining this to Tom.

Casue of death: the thing which directly killed you. Ex: blood loss, ruptured lung, heart failure.
Contributing factors: The thing which caused the cause of death.  Ex: Stab wound to the abdomen, gunshot to the chest, arterial blockage from fatty buildup.

This is how death certificates are written.  And since contributing factors are what we want to know rather than the very specific mechanical failire, thats the statistic.  If someone has a weak heart, you don't write "heart faulure due to weak heart" because the question is then asked "what caused the weak heart to stop?" And the answer could be "over exhertion".  So they died from over exhertion due to a weak heart. 
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #835 on: September 17, 2021, 09:29:20 AM »
You're still missing the point: Would these kids, in your RI example, not have died if they didn't have Covid?

It would certainly need to be demonstrated explicitly that Covid contributed to their disease, as many cases of Covid are asymptomatic. If it's "fuzzy" or "unclear" and "maybe" is involved then it means you don't have the evidence to stroke fears to support your pandemic among the sickly and should probably just refrain from screaming fear to the media and focus on the research.

We have a pandemic where people are "maybe" dying of the disease.  ::)

Considerong the high level of comorbidities in the deaths it's obvious that you can't show that this disease is really that dangerous on its own and need to pull in other diseases to help you, in a manufactured argument of possible contributions to unrelated diseases. Is this how Polio and the Bubonic Plague worked?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 09:46:51 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #836 on: September 17, 2021, 10:22:14 AM »
You're still missing the point: Would these kids, in your RI example, not have died if they didn't have Covid?

It would certainly need to be demonstrated explicitly that Covid contributed to their disease, as many cases of Covid are asymptomatic. If it's "fuzzy" or "unclear" and "maybe" is involved then it means you don't have the evidence to stroke fears to support your pandemic among the sickly and should probably just refrain from screaming fear to the media and focus on the research.

We have a pandemic where people are "maybe" dying of the disease.  ::)

Considerong the high level of comorbidities in the deaths it's obvious that you can't show that this disease is really that dangerous on its own and need to pull in other diseases to help you, in a manufactured argument of possible contributions to unrelated diseases. Is this how Polio and the Bubonic Plague worked?

How many people currently have co morbidities in America? Many millions. Heart disease, diabetes, cancer etc. People with these afflictions that get covid and die in short order? Covid could well be a contributing factor in their early death. If you have a bad heart but take care of yourself, you can live for years. But if some anti masking covid infected muppet coughs at you, that could be the death blow as it pushes you over the edge

Lets hope someone like that crosses your path. Karma needs to give you a swift kick up the arse

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Offline crutonius

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #837 on: September 17, 2021, 10:58:43 AM »
He’s almost certainly vaccinated. He’s a descipable grifter, but he’s not an idiot.

Why are you slandering Mr. Carlson?  He's the only one with the courage to find this man in Trinidad with giant balls to clear Nicki Minaj's good name.


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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #838 on: September 17, 2021, 11:24:37 AM »
He’s almost certainly vaccinated. He’s a descipable grifter, but he’s not an idiot.

Why are you slandering Mr. Carlson?  He's the only one with the courage to find this man in Trinidad with giant balls to clear Nicki Minaj's good name.



The hero we need.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #839 on: September 17, 2021, 11:46:00 AM »
How many people currently have co morbidities in America? Many millions. Heart disease, diabetes, cancer etc. People with these afflictions that get covid and die in short order? Covid could well be a contributing factor in their early death. If you have a bad heart but take care of yourself, you can live for years. But if some anti masking covid infected muppet coughs at you, that could be the death blow as it pushes you over the edge

Lets hope someone like that crosses your path. Karma needs to give you a swift kick up the arse
Tom's distain for the old and ill is somewhat disturbing.
Is this what Republicans are generally like?
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis