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Offline rooster

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2120 on: August 17, 2017, 02:12:48 PM »
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We totally have a racism problem.  Just look at the amount of unarmed black people killed by cops for proof.

I don't want to go too far down a debunking BLM claims road, but black cops are more likely to shoot black men than white cops are.  So how does that fit your narrative?  Are these black cops so reified that they no longer have the agency to resist the systemic racism?
Not to mention the amount of black on black crime. It's fucking terrifying in my area.

I truly honestly believe it comes down to a class/culture thing. I really doubt most people genuinely fear someone based on their skin. I fear for my boyfriend's life whenever he's had to deliver pizza to the government housing in our area (they're not supposed to deliver there, but his last manager was a piece of shit).

And how do you even begin to talk about or rectify that problem without some people thinking you're racist?

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Offline honk

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2122 on: August 17, 2017, 02:31:29 PM »
Next stop: the media acknowledging that antifa is a terrorist organisation.
Hnnnnngh, so close! They've stopped just short of it. But hey, at least they're "militants".

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155015816377217&id=228735667216

And how do you even begin to talk about or rectify that problem without some people thinking you're racist?
It's going to be a long process, but all we can do for now is keep challenging the "if you disagree with me you must hate black people" rhetoric. Eventually, the scales will tip and it will stop working as a strategy.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2123 on: August 17, 2017, 03:32:56 PM »
Yes, you are mistaken. It's not so much that what you've said is completely incorrect, but it's extremely incomplete. The Nazis obtained the extent of power they did through staged violent activities which they blamed on "the enemy", thus justifying the strengthening of the government and the elimination of political discourse.
But wasn't the main act the destruction of the german congress building via arson, blamed on a single dutch socialist, the only real act of violence that actually allowed the Nazi party to assume absolute power?

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No, Dave, concentration camps were not a side-project of a private citizen who was convinced the Jews are making him poor. The violence was systemic, organised, and largely centrally controlled.
Yes, AFTER they assumed absolute power.  I mean before.  When the process of government was actually working.  How did they get enough seats in their senate to GET absolute power?

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This is the problem with you talking before you've done your reading. The original media reports were appallingly skewed, and are now (nearly a week after the tragic events) finally moving from "violence was one-sided and oh no how dare Trump say otherwise" to "yes, there was violence on both sides, but..."

This BBC video is a good example of this new, revised narrative: https://www.facebook.com/bbcnews/videos/10155014210312217/

This situation perfectly illustrates why we should continue to oppose media spin. It actually works. Next stop: the media acknowledging that antifa is a terrorist organisation.
Fair enough.  I'll just go back to my usual "I don't care" attitude.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2124 on: August 17, 2017, 04:33:12 PM »
Yes, AFTER they assumed absolute power.  I mean before.  When the process of government was actually working.  How did they get enough seats in their senate to GET absolute power?

Some brief history here:



Enough to research more if you want to.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #2125 on: August 18, 2017, 01:24:44 AM »
You should watch the BBC's "The World at War" if you want an in depth history of World War II.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2126 on: August 18, 2017, 07:44:14 AM »
Yes, AFTER they assumed absolute power.  I mean before.  When the process of government was actually working.  How did they get enough seats in their senate to GET absolute power?

Some brief history here:



Enough to research more if you want to.
Yeah.  I guess I was a little out of order.  I thought the party had enough seats before the fire, and the fire was just a way to ensure no one questioned the bill giving the chancellor more power.




So... I had a thought.
Trump is supporting these confederate statues yeah?  But why?
He claims history but this is a history of losers.  People who failed.  Why is Trump trying to support monuments to history's losers?
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2127 on: August 18, 2017, 12:45:10 PM »
Because he is a winner standing on the back of losers.
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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2128 on: August 18, 2017, 02:31:33 PM »
I can imagine quite a few legitimate reasons for why Trump didn't want to address nazis et al. right away (other than pandering). One of them being that the nazi boogeyman is massively overblown by left-leaning media. How many actual nazis or white nationalists do you think there were in that protest? Sure, there were some I'd imagine, but certainly not all of them. And those some likely weren't involved in the violence at all.

Condemning hateful ideologies in general is fine and dandy, but let's not blame people for something they probably didn't do. Let's just condemn all violence in one statement and the ideologies in another, which is what happened.

Nice rationalization, but we both know that Trump is utterly incapable of this level of restraint and nuance. If it had been a Muslim who did this, an illegal immigrant, or a leftist, the self-congratulatory shitposts would be flying thick and fast from Trump, as we've seen multiple times in the past. But now suddenly Trump's thoughtful, patient side emerges? Bullshit.

Well, it didn't take long for Trump to prove me right on this.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2129 on: August 18, 2017, 02:43:18 PM »
Well, it didn't take long for Trump to prove me right on this.
How does this prove you right? I don't think anybody is questioning the idea that Trump is batshit insane when it comes to radical Islamic terrorism. That doesn't mean he can't be semi-reasonable on other subjects.

Actually, thanks for bringing this back up. I should have pointed out how retarded your post was when you made it. Generally speaking, people aren't universally right or universally wrong, Saddam.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 02:46:36 PM by SexWarrior »
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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2130 on: August 18, 2017, 03:37:10 PM »
I don't see this as a separate subject just because of the race or ideology of the attacker. Trump is quick to condemn and beat his chest when it's a Muslim who commits the attack. When it's a white nationalist, he awkwardly fumbles about with "both sides" equivocation and asides about who had permits. That last one isn't true either, by the way.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #2131 on: August 18, 2017, 03:38:16 PM »
I don't think anybody is questioning the idea that Trump is batshit insane when it comes to radical Islamic terrorism.

Most of his supporters think he is reasonable about Islamic terrorism, and this his responses to them are justified. It's probably one of the main reasons they voted for him.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2132 on: August 18, 2017, 04:04:09 PM »
I don't think anybody is questioning the idea that Trump is batshit insane when it comes to radical Islamic terrorism.

Most of his supporters think he is reasonable about Islamic terrorism, and this his responses to them are justified. It's probably one of the main reasons they voted for him.


Many of his supporters think he's God's gift to America.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2133 on: August 18, 2017, 04:53:58 PM »
Most of his supporters think he is reasonable about Islamic terrorism, and this his responses to them are justified. It's probably one of the main reasons they voted for him.
Allow me to correct myself: I don't think anyone in this conversation thinks he's reasonable about Islamic terrorism.

I don't see this as a separate subject just because of the race or ideology of the attacker.
It's completely irrelevant what you do or don't see as separate subjects, unless your point is that you wouldn't make the statements Trump made if you were in his position (lol no shit).

To remain internally consistent (not right, just not self-contradictory), you'd have to propose that it is impossible for a person to view the two as separate subjects. I propose that it is possible, and that Trump is likely to perceive it so.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2134 on: August 19, 2017, 03:59:17 PM »
Gotta say I'm relieved Bannon is gone. Anyone wanting to get more Hawks in the East Asian command is not thinking real clear, imo.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2135 on: August 19, 2017, 05:55:41 PM »
I hope his absence improves things. I agree that it's a relief he's gone.

Trump is still there, unfortunately.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2136 on: August 19, 2017, 06:07:49 PM »
The fewer creeps there are whispering poison in his ears the less likely he is to do any lasting harm. Let's remember that Trump doesnt have an ideology.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2137 on: August 19, 2017, 06:34:05 PM »
I wonder what the #PresidentBannon crowd are thinking right now. The puppetmaster who was clearly 100% in charge of Trump got fired.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #2138 on: August 19, 2017, 08:30:32 PM »
I wonder what the #PresidentBannon crowd are thinking right now. The puppetmaster who was clearly 100% in charge of Trump got fired.

They'd probably think someone else got ahold of the strings, which is probably not far from the truth. And that person is probably General John Kelly. First the Mooch, now Bannon.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2139 on: August 19, 2017, 08:58:13 PM »
They'd probably think someone else got ahold of the strings
Yeah, I guess expecting them to think something plausible would be silly
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