[Tom Bishop]

yeah it's super weird that ukraine doesn't want to reward the nation that is illegally annexing them with a treaty to cede sovereign territory and let them dictate ukraine's foreign policy. so weird. i simply can't understand why z is being so unreasonable.

Annexation of territory can be a result of war. Here are a list of occupations and annexations in history - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_occupations

Russia and Ukraine are in war. Zelensky has had numerous opportunities for peace. However, he chose war.

He chose to have Russia invade Ukraine?

Zelensky knew that there was a conflict with Russia that could escalate to war. He did not back down and seek a peaceful solution. He could have sought peace and compromise. Instead we see an exchanging of threats.

https://news.yahoo.com/kremlin-says-ukraine-may-force-110336268.html

Tensions grow over Ukraine with the trading of threats

December 2, 2021

Russia on one side and Ukraine, the U.S. and its NATO allies on the other traded fresh accusations and threats. The West, fearing that Moscow could invade Ukraine, threatened the Kremlin with the toughest sanctions yet if it launches an attack. Russia, seeing new U.S. and European support for Ukraine’s military, sternly warned that any presence of NATO troops and weapons on Ukrainian soil represents a “red line.”

Ukraine is a border country to Russia. The presence of NATO near Russia represents an existential threat, similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis for the US. Countries generally do not like troop movements or enemy armament buildup near them. Zelensky and Ukraine certainly knew this, and certainly knew that what they were doing risked war.

[Rama Set]

So you think if someone is getting bullied, they should do what the bully wants?

[Tom Bishop]

So you think if someone is getting bullied, they should do what the bully wants?

If you are being bullied should you:

A. Seek peace and a peaceful solution
B. Try to get a gang together to escalate threats and physical confrontation

Ukraine chose B.


Zelensky knew that he was taunting Russia by attempting to join NATO and receiving NATO weapons. He also knew that his actions could result in war.

Here is Ukraine announcing directly that they were being armed by the US in the days leading up to the war:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/03/04/weapons-access-ukraine/

As Russia’s military buildup pressed against Ukraine’s border in late January and early February, Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov celebrated the arrival of weapons from the West, illustrating his near-daily tweets with photographs of smiling men in uniform unloading heavy pallets from cargo aircraft.

“The 8th [American] bird has arrived in Kyiv!” Reznikov exulted on Feb. 5. “Our partners from #USA have sent more than 650 tons of defense ammunition to Ukraine! To be continued.”

The last such message came on Feb. 23, the day before Russia invaded.

There have been no known air deliveries since then. Ukraine’s airspace is now part of a war zone that no Western nation wants to enter, even as the United States and its allies and partners pledge to deliver more weaponry for the fight.

Ukraine proclaimed publicly that they were being armed by the US. This did not come out of the blue.

[garygreen]

call me crazy but i feel like if you declare war on a sovereign nation then you are the one who caused a war with a sovereign nation. especially if you follow it up by sending a few hundred thousand troops across their borders to start killing people and capturing cities and such.

"but they wouldn't let us dictate their foreign policy!!!!!!!!" is a justification, i guess, but it's kind of a bad one imo imho.

lol let me guess — you're a huge fan of neville chamberlain

[Tom Bishop]

Russia didn't want NATO in Ukraine and stated that presence of NATO troops or NATO weapons on Ukrainian soil represented a “red line.”

NATO proceeded to provoke Russia by sending weapons to Ukraine in the days leading up to the war:

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/24/1075383856/some-nato-allies-are-sending-military-aid-to-ukraine

Some European allies send weapons to Ukraine while Germany holds back

January 24, 2022

"Germany is not sending weapons to Kyiv. It says this would only inflame tensions with Russia. Instead, Germany is sending a field hospital through Estonia. This dismays Constanze Stelzenmuller, an expert on Germany and security issues at the Brookings Institution."

"Today in Moscow, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the weapons coming into Ukraine have raised tensions."

Germany refused to send weapons to Ukraine, stating that it would inflame tensions.

It is pretty clear that NATO and Ukraine had every opportunity to back down, and knew that they were escalating the situation with their actions.

[markjo]

Russia didn't want NATO in Ukraine and stated that presence of NATO troops and weapons on Ukrainian soil represents a “red line.”

Ukraine first expressed interest in joining NATO in 1992 and applied in 2008.  However, they dropped their application in 2010.  It wasn't until Russia annexed Crimea that Ukraine renewed their desire to join NATO and Russia's "special operation" seems to be not only putting Ukraine application on the fast track for membership but also causing other neighboring countries to seek membership.  So it looks like's Putin's invasion to stop NATO's eastward expansion is having pretty much the opposite effect that he intended.

[Rama Set]

Russia didn't want NATO in Ukraine and stated that presence of NATO troops and weapons on Ukrainian soil represented a “red line.”

NATO proceeded to provoke Russia by sending weapons to Ukraine in the days leading up to the war:

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/24/1075383856/some-nato-allies-are-sending-military-aid-to-ukraine

Some European allies send weapons to Ukraine while Germany holds back

January 24, 2022

"Germany is not sending weapons to Kyiv. It says this would only inflame tensions with Russia. Instead, Germany is sending a field hospital through Estonia. This dismays Constanze Stelzenmuller, an expert on Germany and security issues at the Brookings Institution."

"Today in Moscow, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the weapons coming into Ukraine have raised tensions."

Germany refused to send weapons to Ukraine, stating that it would inflame tensions.

It is pretty clear that NATO and Ukraine had every opportunity to back down, and knew that they were escalating the situation with its actions.

Why aren’t you condemning Russia for not seeking a peaceful solution? It is pretty clear Russia knew they were escalating the situation with their actions and they had every opportunity to back down. Unlike Ukraine, they actually invaded a sovereign country, but hey tell us more about how Ukraine is wrong for fighting their invaders.

[stack]

It is pretty clear that NATO and Ukraine had every opportunity to back down, and knew that they were escalating the situation with their actions.

I'm pretty sure Russia created and escalated tension when they did this:

[crutonius]

Russia didn't want NATO in Ukraine and stated that presence of NATO troops and NATO weapons on Ukrainian soil represented a “red line.”

NATO proceeded to provoke Russia by sending weapons to Ukraine in the days leading up to the war:

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/24/1075383856/some-nato-allies-are-sending-military-aid-to-ukraine

Some European allies send weapons to Ukraine while Germany holds back

January 24, 2022

"Germany is not sending weapons to Kyiv. It says this would only inflame tensions with Russia. Instead, Germany is sending a field hospital through Estonia. This dismays Constanze Stelzenmuller, an expert on Germany and security issues at the Brookings Institution."

"Today in Moscow, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the weapons coming into Ukraine have raised tensions."

Germany refused to send weapons to Ukraine, stating that it would inflame tensions.

It is pretty clear that NATO and Ukraine had every opportunity to back down, and knew that they were escalating the situation with their actions.

We provoked them?  You mean Joe Brandon with his genius level IQ tricked slow witted Vladamir Putin into invading Ukraine?

I have a homework assignment for you. read the wikipedia articles on what the state of the Ukrainian Army was in February 2022 and what we gave them exactly.  I think the results will be enlightening for you.

[Action80]

call me crazy but i feel like if you declare war on a sovereign nation then you are the one who caused a war with a sovereign nation. especially if you follow it up by sending a few hundred thousand troops across their borders to start killing people and capturing cities and such.

"but they wouldn't let us dictate their foreign policy!!!!!!!!" is a justification, i guess, but it's kind of a bad one imo imho.

lol let me guess — you're a huge fan of neville chamberlain

Seems to me you are the HUGE fan of uncle NEV... He too sought to allow NAZI"S to do as they wish.

[stack]

Seems to me you are the HUGE fan of uncle NEV... He too sought to allow NAZI"S to do as they wish.

You mean like these Nazis...

[Dr Van Nostrand]

Ukraine can achieve peace with Russia the same way Afghanistan got peace when Russia invaded them. They just beat the crap out of the Russians for years until they leave.

[J-Man]

Zel got a boo boo today.

[J-Man]

Breaking: Volodymyr Zelensky's office has reportedly been destroyed by a missile strike in Central Kyiv, according to Ukrainian Media.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1579396268606238720

[J-Man]

Putin bombs his office on Monday because everyday is Monday? Think he got him?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1501035422578708491

[crutonius]

Yes.  The heroic Russians really stuck it Ukraine by bravely destroying many playgrounds and daycare centers today.

[Pete Svarrior]

Yes.  The heroic Russians really stuck it Ukraine by bravely destroying many playgrounds and daycare centers today.

But have you considered that bombing civilians is very based and that it super-owns the libs? It's really a refreshing breath of fresh air, and it's gonna land me a 10/10 m'lady tradwife any moment now.

[stack]

Seems legit, all's fair in love, war, playgrounds, and intersections...

[Rama Set]

Yes.  The heroic Russians really stuck it Ukraine by bravely destroying many playgrounds and daycare centers today.

But have you considered that bombing civilians is very based and that it super-owns the libs? It's really a refreshing breath of fresh air, and it's gonna land me a 10/10 m'lady tradwife any moment now.

Yeah. Playgrounds being bombed is so 1hundoP the fault of the Ukrainians, so like suck it libs.

[Tom Bishop]

I don't see any evidence that Russia was aiming for civilians. The death toll is reported to be about 11 from missile attacks on 16 cities. Even Ukraine has stated that Russia was aiming for the energy infrastructure and that the missile strikes were on "the entire chain of supply":

https://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-crisis-energy-exports-idAFL1N31B18E

“Today’s missile strikes, which hit the thermal generation and electrical substations, forced Ukraine to suspend electricity exports from Oct. 11, 2022 to stabilize its own energy system,” the ministry said in a statement on its website.

Russia earlier on Monday launched its most widespread missile strikes on Ukraine since the start of the conflict, raining cruise missiles on cities and knocking out power supplies, in what Russian President Vladimir Putin called revenge for a blown up bridge.

Ukraine’s energy minister Herman Halushchenko said the attacks on the energy system were “the biggest during the entire war.”

In a TV broadcast he said that missile strikes “on the entire chain of supply (were made) in order to make switching supply as difficult as possible.”