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Messages - Action80

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41
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ron DeSantis is a shitbag
« on: October 01, 2022, 10:42:55 PM »
You should build back better, no doubt.

Keeping in mind the concept of fiscal integrity, I think all funds slated for Ukraine should be taken off the board, drastic cuts should be made in military spending, and all that money should be repurposed toward infrastructure (actual, physical infrastructure, not some BS labeled as such by woke shitbags roaming the flat earth plane) across the US.

De Santis is not a shitbag for pointing out the BS labeled as infrastructure by stupid liberals and their AI-generated bots.

42
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets
« on: October 01, 2022, 11:38:55 AM »
I am not going to engage in any of your research projects.
To my mind, the next step would be for you to engage with my "project", and demonstrate how the "atmoplane" has affected it. But you won't. Vague hints in the direction of "mirages" do not make for a sound basis.
What project? You have no project.

I never claimed to have something named as a project. I invited you to examine my observations and conclusions, all on YouTube (here and in other threads), and you declined, referring to this here as my "research project". I put it in quotes because I was quoting you. You were the first to refer to me having a "project".

Again, I invite you to view my observations and conclusions, and indicate what I should be looking for in terms of these "atmoplane" effects that would have any significant effect on either.

If you're not going to engage in review of my work, and you refuse to engage with others, and you provide no observations, projects or experimentation of your own, then ... why are you here?
As always, crystal clear statements from you, Tumeni [/sarcasm]

You have stuff on YouTube? Where?

43
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets
« on: September 30, 2022, 09:38:46 PM »
MCToon,

You've pushed your original OP question off the rails by engaging with flat earthers in a way that they are not going to want to engage with you. Stick to the dialogue and try and take emotion out of it if you want a fruitful debate. (yes, I've learned my lesson on approach and am trying to do better)


Action80     

In terms of perspective, mirages, and the atmoplane being a variable affecting the appearance of objects to individual viewers located at various distances from the object(s) in question:

1) What are the physics or science behind these three variables that cause a ship to appear to sink towards the surface of the Earth (whether the surface be land or water)?
2) When a ship moves away from an observer, why does a ship always appear to "sink down" towards Earth's surface but never appear to "sink up" towards Earth's atmosphere?

- Round Earthers would say that because the Earth is a globe, you are seeing the ship move about Earth's curvature and thus the bottom of the ship begins to "disappear" first.
- I think MCToon is asking you to explain the physics or science regarding why/how perspective, mirages, and the atmoplane cause the sun to appear to "sink down" on a flat plane.
This thread is about explanations of sunsets, not about ships.

MCToon claims sunsets cannot happen on a flat earth, based on an extremely comprehensive analyis he performed regarding two issues, those being perspective and refraction.

Quiet please, while he gathers the data as to provide the particulars...


My above post included the sun (i.e. sun setting) and a question as to why the sun always sets "down" but never sets "up" on a flat earth.

As MCToon is gathering his data would you be able to provide some clarity as to how perspective, mirages, and the atmoplane cause a sun to set down vs. up?
It only included the word sun after I pointed out your off-topic contribution.

I am not going to entertain your off-topic original contribution/only to later revise game.

44
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets
« on: September 30, 2022, 05:56:53 PM »
MCToon,

You've pushed your original OP question off the rails by engaging with flat earthers in a way that they are not going to want to engage with you. Stick to the dialogue and try and take emotion out of it if you want a fruitful debate. (yes, I've learned my lesson on approach and am trying to do better)


Action80     

In terms of perspective, mirages, and the atmoplane being a variable affecting the appearance of objects to individual viewers located at various distances from the object(s) in question:

1) What are the physics or science behind these three variables that cause a ship to appear to sink towards the surface of the Earth (whether the surface be land or water)?
2) When a ship moves away from an observer, why does a ship always appear to "sink down" towards Earth's surface but never appear to "sink up" towards Earth's atmosphere?

- Round Earthers would say that because the Earth is a globe, you are seeing the ship move about Earth's curvature and thus the bottom of the ship begins to "disappear" first.
- I think MCToon is asking you to explain the physics or science regarding why/how perspective, mirages, and the atmoplane cause the sun to appear to "sink down" on a flat plane.
This thread is about explanations of sunsets, not about ships.

MCToon claims sunsets cannot happen on a flat earth, based on an extremely comprehensive analyis he performed regarding two issues, those being perspective and refraction.

Quiet please, while he gathers the data as to provide the particulars...

45
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets
« on: September 30, 2022, 05:47:31 PM »
I am not going to engage in any of your research projects.

My time is too valuable to surrender for free.

Yes, I have a basis for stating the atmoplane is a variable affecting the appearance of objects to individual viewers located at various distances from the object(s) in question.

I am relatively confident you and everyone else has heard of mirages, for instance.

To my mind, the next step would be for you to engage with my "project", and demonstrate how the "atmoplane" has affected it. But you won't. Vague hints in the direction of "mirages" do not make for a sound basis.
What project?

You have no project.

There is nothing conceptually vague about mirages.

46
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets
« on: September 29, 2022, 04:26:43 PM »
Since my analysis concluded that sunsets could never happen, the analysis is wrong in your view, why would you want my analysis?  This is your chance to shine.
It is decidedly apparent to all here that your so-called analysis is nothing more than a statement that flat earth does not allow for a setting sun.

My choice of how I choose to shine is to clearly point out that your so-called analysis is nothing of the sort.

Your simple statement qualifies more as an Angry Rant, "erth rund!!!!"
Action80, you have chosen option 1.  This informs me that you accepted the claims without doing any analysis.  Anyone that had done the analysis would be giddy to share their results.  Thank you, Action80.  You have confirmed, yet again, that flat earthers generally accept flat earth claims without critical analysis.
Engaging in projection fails to aid you in your quest for answers.

47
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets
« on: September 29, 2022, 04:21:03 PM »
Not surprisingly, the OP reveals itself to be another case of RE stomping their collective feet, outrageously demanding an explanation from FE for something they claim to have already analyzed in depth.

I did not claim that. Your question was, paraphrased "Have you accounted for atmospheric variables?", directed toward McToon. I've fielded the same question in the past, with regard to my own observations, phrased in different ways. My response is always to ask - "How do you suggest I do that?", and after that, everything goes silent. 

Do you have any method for accounting for the things that you say McToon (and possibly I) should be accounting for?

If you don't, do you have any basis for suggesting that they have any effect, at all, on the observation?  I want to know if my eyes and camera are misleading me, so tell me what I should be looking for.
Actually, that is nowhere near an accurate paraphrasing of my question to the OP.

My question was very specific.

The OP claims his analysis demonstrates a setting sun is not possible on a flat earth.

I asked a very direct question regarding that analysis.

Response = nothing of substance.

I am not going to engage in any of your research projects.

My time is too valuable to surrender for free.

Yes, I have a basis for stating the atmoplane is a variable affecting the appearance of objects to individual viewers located at various distances from the object(s) in question.

I am relatively confident you and everyone else has heard of mirages, for instance.

48
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets
« on: September 29, 2022, 08:09:33 AM »
How did you account for air quality variables between yourself and the sun during your period of observation?
Can you suggest a method or methods for doing this?
I analyzed these claims.
How did you account for air quality variables between yourself and the sun during your period of observation?
Air quality variables?  You mean like particulate matter, humidity and temperature?  These, under normal physics, would have a negligible effect on the apparent elevation of the sun.  I can only assume that MC Toon was using normal physics as there is very little offered from the FE perspective.
I analyzed these claims.
I think you're missing the point. The question in the OP is, "So I come to you, dear flat earthers, looking for the correct explanation for flat earth sunsets."

The question is not, "What is it about my empirical assessment that you find ambiguous or faulty." So once you answer the OP question, then comes the discussion as to how one arrived at whatever explanation. But the OP question should be answered first otherwise there is no discussion to be had.

So what is your correct explanation as to how FE sunsets work?
I analyzed these claims.
Not surprisingly, the OP reveals itself to be another case of RE stomping their collective feet, outrageously demanding an explanation from FE for something they claim to have already analyzed in depth. One goes so far as to label the analysis as using  "normal physics"!

Another steamy pile.

49
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets
« on: September 28, 2022, 09:29:21 PM »
How did you account for air quality variables between yourself and the sun during your period of observation?

You seem to have neglected to read my post.

I am giving flat earthers an opportunity to showcase how sunsets work on flat earth.  Since all the analysis I did conclude that sunsets are not possible, you will clearly disagree with my results.

So, please show the process YOU personally went through to critically analyze the claimed mechanism for sunsets on flat earth.

You did critically analyze the claimed mechanism for sunsets on flat earth, right?

The analysis you personally did showed that sunsets are possible, right?

Otherwise, you would never have accepted them, right?

All these things are supported by empirical evidence, right?
Your OP is entitled "Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets"

My question directly deals with how comprehensive your observations were.

I have accepted nothing.

You have offered no true analysis of the two possible causes.

I just asked you a direct question related to one of the issues you claimed to have analyzed and you dismissed it out of hand.

50
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets
« on: September 27, 2022, 11:41:54 PM »
How did you account for air quality variables between yourself and the sun during your period of observation?

51
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets
« on: September 26, 2022, 09:12:12 PM »
What year?

52
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: $$$ inflation $$$ Say it ain't so Joe
« on: September 26, 2022, 08:59:25 PM »

Given the US is not currently holding anything of real value, they go deeper into debt (aka unfunded liability).


You’ve written a lot of stupid things and this is one of them. How you can think the US holds nothing of value is comepletely beyond me.
Do you own anything that is currently in hock?

The US owns nothing currently, including land. It is all in hock.

You should have saved your nonsensical post to begin with.
Federal land is currently owned by a pawn shop?
So are all the federal buildings?
Oh dear.  That must be the richest pawn shop in existence.
Being in hock describes collateral. Banks hold collateral.



Rama, the dollar is NOT anything but a private banks fiat currency. They are called the Federal Reserve Bank.

Okay, this isn't true, either. The Federal Reserve is not a private bank. It's an independent board organized by the government that interacts with private member banks.
Wrong, real wrong.

The Fed is a totally private banking institution that allows the government to appoint members to its board. Seven board members or governors for 12 independent regions.

This is just a great quote.  Its as you as possible.
Tell someone he's wrong then contradict yourself in the next sentence. XD
Private institutions can have government-appointed board members. It does not make them government agencies.

53
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Comprehensive explanation for sunsets
« on: September 26, 2022, 08:09:24 PM »
I published a video last week examining the claimed "most comprehensive flat earth sunset explanation".  The video I reviewed simply said that perspective was the main cause of sunsets.  Then offered refraction as the second cause.

I analyzed these claims and found they didn't explain sunsets at all.  I did the math for perspective and concluded that perspective demands that the sun could never get close to the horizon.

I examined the effects of refraction, which cause things to appear slightly higher, not lower.

In the comments of my video, several flat earthers were angry at me and declared that I just didn't understand flat earth.

I don't want to misrepresent the flat earth position. So I come to you, dear flat earthers, looking for the correct explanation for flat earth sunsets. 

Since I have already done the math for perspective, there is no need to just say "perspective".  Instead, please provide the full geometry-based method to properly explain how the sun appears to cross the horizon.

Further, I have read the wiki page here on the topic:
https://wiki.tfes.org/Sunrise_and_Sunset

This provided nothing testable.

I read Rowbotham's work.  It simply makes claims about perspective without a plausible mechanism.

I read the Electromagnetic Acceleration page.  It lacks empirical supporting evidence.

Any answers I receive may be featured in the follow up video.

Thank you in advance.
Here is my video in case you want to point out the correct methodologies:

Provide the constants used in the math you performed for perspective.

54
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: $$$ inflation $$$ Say it ain't so Joe
« on: September 26, 2022, 07:58:20 PM »
Rama, the dollar is NOT anything but a private banks fiat currency. They are called the Federal Reserve Bank.

Okay, this isn't true, either. The Federal Reserve is not a private bank. It's an independent board organized by the government that interacts with private member banks.
Wrong, real wrong.

The Fed is a totally private banking institution that allows the government to appoint members to its board. Seven board members or governors for 12 independent regions.

55
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: $$$ inflation $$$ Say it ain't so Joe
« on: September 26, 2022, 07:57:07 PM »

Given the US is not currently holding anything of real value, they go deeper into debt (aka unfunded liability).


You’ve written a lot of stupid things and this is one of them. How you can think the US holds nothing of value is comepletely beyond me.
Do you own anything that is currently in hock?

The US owns nothing currently, including land. It is all in hock.

You should have saved your nonsensical post to begin with.

56
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: $$$ inflation $$$ Say it ain't so Joe
« on: September 25, 2022, 06:13:11 PM »
Going to take this as a sign that you figured out saying the US "produces their own funds" is complete nonsense...

57
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: $$$ inflation $$$ Say it ain't so Joe
« on: September 25, 2022, 05:56:29 PM »
It’s truly a mystery. Best of luck figuring out this most enigmatic of problems.
I have it figured out.

You exchange something of equal value.

Given the US is not currently holding anything of real value, they go deeper into debt (aka unfunded liability).

This leads back to the first post you made.

Just utter BS to believe a nation-state can exist with unfunded liability.

58
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: $$$ inflation $$$ Say it ain't so Joe
« on: September 25, 2022, 05:19:36 PM »
The US produces their own funds. You know that right? Please tell me you know that.

Please explain how the US "produces their own funds".

You fucking dolt, they have a mint.

I don't see the relevance and I look forward to bringing "produces their own funds" to its logical conclusion where you realize that the US government cannot do that.

Let's use something simple: a gold coin. Say the US government wants to mint a gold coin. Where does it get the gold?

It’s a complete mystery. No one knows how to acquire gold. I hope you figure it out.
Everyone knows how to acquire gold.

So do you.

So, where do you get your gold, if you were to want some?

If everyone knows, why don’t we just move on to the next part of the discussion?
Okay, the next part of the discussion is how you obtain it.

They are not giving it away, to my knowledge.

59
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: $$$ inflation $$$ Say it ain't so Joe
« on: September 25, 2022, 03:16:26 PM »
The US produces their own funds. You know that right? Please tell me you know that.

Please explain how the US "produces their own funds".

You fucking dolt, they have a mint.

I don't see the relevance and I look forward to bringing "produces their own funds" to its logical conclusion where you realize that the US government cannot do that.

Let's use something simple: a gold coin. Say the US government wants to mint a gold coin. Where does it get the gold?

It’s a complete mystery. No one knows how to acquire gold. I hope you figure it out.
Everyone knows how to acquire gold.

So do you.

So, where do you get your gold, if you were to want some?

60
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: $$$ inflation $$$ Say it ain't so Joe
« on: September 25, 2022, 07:51:05 AM »
Could have something to do with how you define a nation-state.

How do you define a nation-state?
I used the words "charting its own course." I would include that as part of the definition, along with other things, but seeing how the general OP is pretty aligned with the concept of economics, no need to get into the others; however, in addition, if you like, we can also add the US is truly no longer homogenous in any sense of the word.

Since the US government does not solely direct (in fact, it has no current role) its monetary policy, it does not meet the definition of a nation-state.

So, overall, the current state of inflation is not really inflicted upon any citizens of any country by the people occupying governmental positions of authority, including Joe Biden. It is facilitated by these people at the behest of those responsible for establishing the monetary policies (i.e., central banks).

A country owning its central bank would continue to meet my understanding of the definition of a nation-state.

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