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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9900 on: September 01, 2022, 11:43:59 AM »
https://mobile.twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1565086491847573504

Trump self incriminating.  Admitting that those documents were not planted and were in a "carton"

It’s really astounding that anyone sticks up for him.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9901 on: September 01, 2022, 11:58:45 AM »
https://mobile.twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1565086491847573504

Trump self incriminating.  Admitting that those documents were not planted and were in a "carton"

It’s really astounding that anyone sticks up for him.

You'll notice Tom isn't fighting much on the subject.  There's a reason why.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9902 on: September 01, 2022, 01:52:11 PM »
There's a reason why.

Yes, and the reason is that it is a waste of time to talk about this because it is clear that that none of this is going anywhere.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/breaking-trump-describes-process-how-he-declassified-documents

    Donald Trump's office told Just the News on Friday that the classified materials the FBI seized from his Mar-a-Lago estate were declassified under a "standing order" while he was president that allowed him to take sensitive materials to the White House residence at night to keep working.

    The official statement is likely to become the focus of the president's legal defense as the FBI and Biden Justice Department investigate whether he stole records covered under the Presidential Records Act or mishandled classified materials under the Espionage Act, allegations included in a search warrant released by a federal court in Florida on Friday.

    The president's defense is rooted in the legal principal that the president and vice president are the ultimate declassifying authority of the U.S. government and through executive orders most recently issued in 2003 by George W. Bush and Barack Obama in 2009 that specifically exempt the president and vice president from having to follow the stringent declassification procedures every other federal agency and official must follow.

    Trump has maintained for weeks that any documents still containing classified markings in his possession after he left office were previously declassified. On Friday night, the statement issued to Just the News explained exactly how that declassification occurred in his mind.

    The very fact that these documents were present at Mar-a-Lago means they couldn’t have been classified," the former president's office stated. "As we can all relate to, everyone ends up having to bring home their work from time to time. American presidents are no different. President Trump, in order to prepare for work the next day, often took documents including classified documents from the Oval Office to the residence.

    "He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified," the statement added. "The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated BY THE PRESIDENT, needs to approve of declassification is absurd."

    Two former senior aides who worked for Trump in the latter half of his term said they were aware that Trump routinely took documents to the residence rather than return them to the Staff Secretary or the intelligence official who provided them. Asked whether there was a standing order, one former official "I don't know anyone or anything that disputes that."

    Ordinarily, documents declassified by a president are later retrieved and marked declassified, usually by crossing a line through the prior classification markings. But former top aides to prior presidents acknowledged the president's power to declassify was absolute and at times resulted in instant declassification decisions.

    One prior administration official related an instance where his boss, while talking to a foreign leader, gave top-secret information to the leader, declassifying simply by sharing what he had seen in a top-secret marked document. Another official related an instance he witnessed in which a president, during a meeting, received a top secret document  and one official got up to leave because his clearance was only at the secret level.

    "The president instantly approved that staffer to stay and consume the top-secret intelligence because it benefited the president's work at that moment," the person told Just the News.

    The president's detractors in Congress, the DOJ, and the intelligence community are likely to contest the president's arguments. But officials familiar with national security law said courts generally have held the president's power to declassify is far-reaching and that the process for how that happens can be more happenstance, something the Bush and Obama executive orders from 2003 and 2009 made clear.

    Obama's executive order no. 13526, issued in 2009, laid out the stringent process all federal officials and agencies needed to follow for declassification, but explicitly exempted the sitting president and vice president from having to follow those procedures.

     "Information originated by the incumbent President or the incumbent Vice President; the incumbent President’s White House Staff or the incumbent Vice President’s Staff; committees, commissions, or boards appointed by the incumbent President; or other entities within the Executive Office of the President that solely advise and assist the incumbent President is exempted from the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section," the Obama order stated.

    Officials said it is likely the FBI will seek to find any officials or witnesses who knew or can confirm there was a "standing order" as described by the Trump statement. But in the end, officials said the president's declassification powers were sweeping and likely would be viewed as such by the courts.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 03:13:16 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9903 on: September 01, 2022, 02:36:39 PM »
The movement of SCI documents does not depend on their classification status.  Also, Trump just admitted to lying to the DOJ when they subpeona'ed the documents they just seized, which is a crime.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Re: Trump
« Reply #9904 on: September 01, 2022, 02:37:27 PM »
Donald Trump's office
Well, case closed. No way they would lie about something like this.
Move along people, nothing to see here.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9905 on: September 01, 2022, 03:25:01 PM »
There's a reason why.

Yes, and the reason is that it is a waste of time to talk about this because is it clear that that none of this is going anywhere.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/breaking-trump-describes-process-how-he-declassified-documents

    Donald Trump's office told Just the News on Friday that the classified materials the FBI seized from his Mar-a-Lago estate were declassified under a "standing order" while he was president that allowed him to take sensitive materials to the White House residence at night to keep working.

    The official statement is likely to become the focus of the president's legal defense as the FBI and Biden Justice Department investigate whether he stole records covered under the Presidential Records Act or mishandled classified materials under the Espionage Act, allegations included in a search warrant released by a federal court in Florida on Friday.

    The president's defense is rooted in the legal principal that the president and vice president are the ultimate declassifying authority of the U.S. government and through executive orders most recently issued in 2003 by George W. Bush and Barack Obama in 2009 that specifically exempt the president and vice president from having to follow the stringent declassification procedures every other federal agency and official must follow.

    Trump has maintained for weeks that any documents still containing classified markings in his possession after he left office were previously declassified. On Friday night, the statement issued to Just the News explained exactly how that declassification occurred in his mind.

    The very fact that these documents were present at Mar-a-Lago means they couldn’t have been classified," the former president's office stated. "As we can all relate to, everyone ends up having to bring home their work from time to time. American presidents are no different. President Trump, in order to prepare for work the next day, often took documents including classified documents from the Oval Office to the residence.

    "He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified," the statement added. "The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated BY THE PRESIDENT, needs to approve of declassification is absurd."

    Two former senior aides who worked for Trump in the latter half of his term said they were aware that Trump routinely took documents to the residence rather than return them to the Staff Secretary or the intelligence official who provided them. Asked whether there was a standing order, one former official "I don't know anyone or anything that disputes that."

    Ordinarily, documents declassified by a president are later retrieved and marked declassified, usually by crossing a line through the prior classification markings. But former top aides to prior presidents acknowledged the president's power to declassify was absolute and at times resulted in instant declassification decisions.

    One prior administration official related an instance where his boss, while talking to a foreign leader, gave top-secret information to the leader, declassifying simply by sharing what he had seen in a top-secret marked document. Another official related an instance he witnessed in which a president, during a meeting, received a top secret document  and one official got up to leave because his clearance was only at the secret level.

    "The president instantly approved that staffer to stay and consume the top-secret intelligence because it benefited the president's work at that moment," the person told Just the News.

    The president's detractors in Congress, the DOJ, and the intelligence community are likely to contest the president's arguments. But officials familiar with national security law said courts generally have held the president's power to declassify is far-reaching and that the process for how that happens can be more happenstance, something the Bush and Obama executive orders from 2003 and 2009 made clear.

    Obama's executive order no. 13526, issued in 2009, laid out the stringent process all federal officials and agencies needed to follow for declassification, but explicitly exempted the sitting president and vice president from having to follow those procedures.

     "Information originated by the incumbent President or the incumbent Vice President; the incumbent President’s White House Staff or the incumbent Vice President’s Staff; committees, commissions, or boards appointed by the incumbent President; or other entities within the Executive Office of the President that solely advise and assist the incumbent President is exempted from the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section," the Obama order stated.

    Officials said it is likely the FBI will seek to find any officials or witnesses who knew or can confirm there was a "standing order" as described by the Trump statement. But in the end, officials said the president's declassification powers were sweeping and likely would be viewed as such by the courts.

The photos prove otherwise.

See, its not declassified unless someone actually does the steps to declassify it.

Lets say I'm the owner of this foum and I have a standing order to Ban Tom and all Tom alts. 
If no one actually clicks that Ban button, you're not banned.  I have a standing order, but until those orders are carried out, it hasn't happened.

Likewise, the pictures clearly show the documents are still classified.  Obviously either Trump's standing order is a lie or no one actually did the work to declassify them.

And, of course, this doesn't excuse lying about having them.

Plus, if they are declassified, then you can obtain that information via the Freedom of Information Act.  Trump could also publish them. 

Let me know how that goes.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9906 on: September 01, 2022, 04:15:16 PM »
Trump is also not entitled to retain possession of these documents after he was no longer president.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Re: Trump
« Reply #9907 on: September 01, 2022, 04:40:45 PM »
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9908 on: September 01, 2022, 06:03:08 PM »
I guess I'm about a week behind. So when Trump said that the FBI planted confidential documents he's now arguing they didn't?

New Trump filing undercuts two pillars of his public defense

Ever since the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago early last month, former president Donald Trump and his most faithful allies have downplayed the severity of his suspected offenses by 1) baselessly suggesting that the FBI might have planted documents and, alternatively, 2) arguing that he had somehow declassified the documents.
In its most substantial filing responding to the government’s claims, though, Trump’s legal team Wednesday night offered a very different argument — one that undercut both of those evidence-free claims.



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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9909 on: September 01, 2022, 06:19:39 PM »
I guess I'm about a week behind. So when Trump said that the FBI planted confidential documents he's now arguing they didn't?

New Trump filing undercuts two pillars of his public defense

Ever since the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago early last month, former president Donald Trump and his most faithful allies have downplayed the severity of his suspected offenses by 1) baselessly suggesting that the FBI might have planted documents and, alternatively, 2) arguing that he had somehow declassified the documents.
In its most substantial filing responding to the government’s claims, though, Trump’s legal team Wednesday night offered a very different argument — one that undercut both of those evidence-free claims.


Trump has given multiple reasons, some of which are contradictory, in the immediate aftermath of the raid.  This is because, frankly, no one knew which defense would work so they used all of them.
Sadly, none of them actually work.  Had he thrown his lawyers under the bus with a "oops, I didn't know I had more after June.  My mistake.  I blame my lawyers for assuring me they took them all." He probably could have gotten away with it.

But nope.  He didn't and he won't and now he's admitted that he knew they were there sssooo.... Yeah.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline ohplease

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9910 on: September 01, 2022, 06:30:32 PM »
I make no prediction about Trump's (or any other 2 year old's) course of action.  But its possible that he wants to be charged.  That he assumes his supporters will not look into the charges and just take his word for it that "I've done nothing wrong and am being persecuted by the Democrats" much like they did for "I won't the 2020 election", and that such will be a rallying cry at least among his supporters or likely supporters.  I hope not, but we're living in strange times so who knows.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 06:33:51 PM by ohplease »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9911 on: September 01, 2022, 06:41:06 PM »
I make no prediction about Trump's (or any other 2 year old's) course of action.  But its possible that he wants to be charged.  That he assumes his supporters will not look into the charges and just take his word for it that "I've done nothing wrong and am being persecuted by the Democrats" much like they did for "I won't the 2020 election", and that such will be a rallying cry at least among his supporters or likely supporters.  I hope not, but we're living in strange times so who knows.

He's not smart enough for that.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9912 on: September 01, 2022, 07:32:19 PM »
I make no prediction about Trump's (or any other 2 year old's) course of action.  But its possible that he wants to be charged.  That he assumes his supporters will not look into the charges and just take his word for it that "I've done nothing wrong and am being persecuted by the Democrats" much like they did for "I won't the 2020 election", and that such will be a rallying cry at least among his supporters or likely supporters.  I hope not, but we're living in strange times so who knows.

He's not smart enough for that.

Also the penalty for some of the crimes cited in the search warrant is to be excluded from running for office.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9913 on: September 01, 2022, 07:57:37 PM »
I guess I'm about a week behind. So when Trump said that the FBI planted confidential documents he's now arguing they didn't?

New Trump filing undercuts two pillars of his public defense

Ever since the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago early last month, former president Donald Trump and his most faithful allies have downplayed the severity of his suspected offenses by 1) baselessly suggesting that the FBI might have planted documents and, alternatively, 2) arguing that he had somehow declassified the documents.
In its most substantial filing responding to the government’s claims, though, Trump’s legal team Wednesday night offered a very different argument — one that undercut both of those evidence-free claims.


It's okay, none of Trump's zombie followers will ever question it.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9914 on: September 01, 2022, 09:52:00 PM »
So when Trump said that the FBI planted confidential documents he's now arguing they didn't?

It's got worse. They found classified docs in one of the desks in his office, along with his passports, and other classified docs in storage boxes along with other miscellaneous stuff.

Trump's OWN STATEMENT on Twuth Sowshul admits that he had the classified docs, which he was not supposed to have, in the document boxes in his office; he actually protests at the FBI making a mess in his office, by taking the classified stuff OUT OF THE BOXES to lay it out on the carpet. That's a confession that they WERE in the boxes, at the time of the FBI visit, despite his attorneys' previous sworn affadavit that ALL documents requested by NARA had been removed from Mar-a-Lago. 
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9915 on: September 02, 2022, 05:17:25 AM »
So when Trump said that the FBI planted confidential documents he's now arguing they didn't?

It's got worse. They found classified docs in one of the desks in his office, along with his passports, and other classified docs in storage boxes along with other miscellaneous stuff.

Trump's OWN STATEMENT on Twuth Sowshul admits that he had the classified docs, which he was not supposed to have, in the document boxes in his office; he actually protests at the FBI making a mess in his office, by taking the classified stuff OUT OF THE BOXES to lay it out on the carpet. That's a confession that they WERE in the boxes, at the time of the FBI visit, despite his attorneys' previous sworn affadavit that ALL documents requested by NARA had been removed from Mar-a-Lago.

Yep.
And indead of going "oh no!  My lawyers said it was all gone.  They lied to me!  How terrible!"
He doubles down on how he has the right to keep them all.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9916 on: September 02, 2022, 06:23:15 AM »
According to the leftist narrative this is over the 100th time Trump was supposed to have been sentenced to years of prison since 2016. Every couple of weeks there has been a declaration by the left that Trump is done for. How about you stop embarrassing yourselves and only post again when it actually happens.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9917 on: September 02, 2022, 07:22:43 AM »
According to the leftist narrative this is over the 100th time Trump was supposed to have been sentenced to years of prison since 2016. Every couple of weeks there has been a declaration by the left that Trump is done for. How about you stop embarrassing yourselves and only post again when it actually happens.

Pst...
Hillary Clinton.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9918 on: September 02, 2022, 10:05:15 AM »
According to the leftist narrative this is over the 100th time Trump was supposed to have been sentenced to years of prison since 2016. Every couple of weeks there has been a declaration by the left that Trump is done for. How about you stop embarrassing yourselves and only post again when it actually happens.

Pst...
Hillary Clinton.

lol

I mean Tom's fundamentally right, of course. Trump is likely never going to jail no matter how much he obviously deserves to. But remember when Trump pushed the racist narrative that Obama wasn't really American literally years after it had been definitively proven otherwise? Good times.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9919 on: September 02, 2022, 07:57:05 PM »
Remember when Trump joked that he could shoot someone dead on 5th Ave and not lose any votes?  Looks like MAGAheads are proving him right.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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