Rama Set

Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2022, 02:41:50 PM »
If you can't directly rebut her Monkeypox video and need to spam us with some leftist thing you found about unrelated videos then you really have lost. Posting an off-topic response shows that you don't have any good arguments to what you saw.

*ahem* Thank you for giving no fucks about expertise when it suits your purposes. You talk about honesty yet possess none of it. Lauren Southern also has a history of flat out lying about facts to deliver her polemics to the slavering mouthes of brain dead conservatives. Look in to her agitprop on immigration to learn more.

If you actually have something to say about the Monkeypox video, I would be happy to listen and respond.

I did have something to say about it: it’s creator is a known liar, a shitty “journalist” and not a medical expert. It’s not worth the bytes it’s encoded on.

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If you don't have any direct argument whatsoever and want to talk about accusations about an unrelated video, then you should do us a favor and keep quiet and know your place as the losing party of the discussion. It is embarrassing for you to have to reply to a video about Monkeypox with a discussion about an unrelated video. Arguing about something off-topic when confronted with on-topic content is a sign of defeat. You don't have any good response to the content of the video.

If a known liar tells me something is true, I am justifiably skeptical and do not need to engage with them.



Quote from: Rama Set

The articles by gay advocates who promote calling HIV a gay disease argue the opposite -

https://www.hivplusmag.com/opinion/guest-voices/2014/02/19/listen-hiv-still-gay-disease

    When the right wing claims HIV was a gay disease, gay leaders recoiled in rage. HIV, they said, was everyone’s problem. In a big picture snapshot that is accurate. But in the U.S. it’s a lie. The virus is safely encamped in the bodies of men who have sex with other men (a term of epidemiology coined by scientists, which makes trans women — deeply affected by HIV — invisible in the epidemic).

    Author John-Manuel Androite says that in the mid-'80s a national coalition called National Organizations Responding to AIDS (NORA) made a decision — a deliberate decision — that echoes even today in how the U.S. addresses HIV.

    “What they did was they framed the discussion about HIV for lawmakers in terms of public health; as a public health crisis, not a gay community crisis per se,” Andriote says. “What they did, very intentionally, was to emphasize the impact of HIV on non-gay people, specifically women and children.”

    Androite authored the book Victor Deferred: How AIDS Changed Gay America, which tracks the political impact of the epidemic on the LGBT rights movement.

    “Unfortunately, the unexpected impact or effect of that de-gaying strategy was that the federal government was very happy to pay attention and focus resources on women and kids,” he says. “But the attitude was still that gay men could sort of fend for themselves.”

They are advocating, in a utilitarian way, for a strategy that will force people, bigots like you, to pay attention to the health issues facing the community affected most by Monkeypox. How does that mean that bigots aren’t using it to minimize the same community?

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Quote from: Rama Set
It’s still absolutely telling that instead of wanting the most accurate and helpful description of the disease you have instead chosen to label it using a group that you have in the past labeled as immoral and disgusting.

Have you considered that Monkeypox is primarily affecting men who have sex with men because that was its entry point and because it is spread most effectively by extreme close contact it has been slow to spread to other epidemiological groups?

Possibilities for why it is affecting gay men is speculation on your part, and is irrelevant to the fact that it is a gay disease.

Gay disease is not a medical term. Still. And it’s not an accurate term. Still. But you don’t care because you hate gay people and want to alienate them and make them the enemy.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2022, 06:03:56 PM »
I did have something to say about it: it’s creator is a known liar, a shitty “journalist” and not a medical expert. It’s not worth the bytes it’s encoded on.

The creator has hundreds of videos. It is possible that there could be falsities in there somewhere. But this would be irrelevant to whether there are falsities in the Monkeypox video. You were asked to talk about the content of the Monkeypox video and you, again, want to talk about some other video. This once again shows your position to be unsatisfactory.

Quote from: Rama Set
If a known liar tells me something is true, I am justifiably skeptical and do not need to engage with them.

I don't see that she is a "known liar". You have failed to demonstrate that at all. You are refusing to even address the content of the Monkeypox video or to point out its lies.

Quote from: Rama Set
They are advocating, in a utilitarian way, for a strategy that will force people, bigots like you, to pay attention to the health issues facing the community affected most by Monkeypox. How does that mean that bigots aren’t using it to minimize the same community?

We can see by your continuous insults that you do not have a legitimate argument. It appears that your main argument is insults and accusations, which is particularly poor of you.

The article itself does not argue that people merely need to pay more attention, it argues that the strategy of denying that HIV was a gay disease did not work and as a consequence the gay community is still the primary vector of the disease.

https://www.hivplusmag.com/opinion/guest-voices/2014/02/19/listen-hiv-still-gay-disease

    “Unfortunately, the unexpected impact or effect of that de-gaying strategy was that the federal government was very happy to pay attention and focus resources on women and kids,” he says. “But the attitude was still that gay men could sort of fend for themselves.”

    At that point, he says, the national LGBT organizations which participated in the NORA coalition, felt their part in addressing the epidemic was over, and could “move on to issues that affect the rest of us, marriage equality in particular, and that just dominated the political discourse for quite some time. Until today I would say.”

    This happened at time when two-thirds of people living with HIV in the U.S. were gay or bisexual men; just as it is today, he points out.

    Despite AIDS having “built” the movement, Androite argues, the movement stopped working on HIV.

    “But the organized movement kind of strayed away from the very thing that had built them to use their new resources and clout to push a really different agenda that served the needs of — I would argue — a sliver of the community they purport to represent,” he says. “And they didn’t really do anything helpful for the gay men and bisexual men…of color who are now most impacted by HIV but who also are not big contributors of these organizations.”

    Androite argues that his reporting finds that LGBT organizations have surrendered the fight against HIV. He notes that it is no longer on the national agenda.  He points to the 2006 controversial publicity move by the LA Gay and Lesbian Community Center to draw attention to the crisis. They put up billboards declaring “HIV is a Gay Disease. Own it.” The backlash from the community was fierce, The Los Angeles Times reported.

    Despite the statistical reality that 75 percent of the cases in Los Angeles county at the time were in men who have sex with men, various HIV organizations condemned the campaign as getting in the way of getting various risk groups tested.

    “There is a level of ignorance about the impact of the epidemic in our own community,” he says. “I would blame the LGBT organizations for that ignorance. It’s kind of like they don’t have it on their agenda: Why? It affects their constituency."

Quote from: Rama Set
It’s still absolutely telling that instead of wanting the most accurate and helpful description of the disease you have instead chosen to label it using a group that you have in the past labeled as immoral and disgusting.

But you don’t care because you hate gay people and want to alienate them and make them the enemy.

No one here said that they thought that gays should be "hated", or were "the enemy" or were "immoral". You are making up your own arguments and insults because you lack the capacity for a legitimate argument on this topic and tend to base your political and societal positions on emotion.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 07:06:40 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2022, 06:51:33 PM »
If you can't directly rebut her Monkeypox video and need to spam us with some leftist thing you found about unrelated videos then you really have lost.

You linked me to an amateur leftist website. It's not neutral.

You linked me to an amateur alt-right nationalist video. It's not neutral.

Posting an off-topic response shows that you don't have any good arguments to what you saw.

Questioning the validity or accuracy of a source or subject isn't a claim. It's a question.

Rama Set

Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #63 on: August 21, 2022, 09:16:02 PM »
I did have something to say about it: it’s creator is a known liar, a shitty “journalist” and not a medical expert. It’s not worth the bytes it’s encoded on.

The creator has hundreds of videos. It is possible that there could be falsities in there somewhere. But this would be irrelevant to whether there are falsities in the Monkeypox video. You were asked to talk about the content of the Monkeypox video and you, again, want to talk about some other video. This once again shows your position to be unsatisfactory.
Not falsities. Intentional deceptions.

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Quote from: Rama Set
If a known liar tells me something is true, I am justifiably skeptical and do not need to engage with them.

I don't see that she is a "known liar". You have failed to demonstrate that at all. You are refusing to even address the content of the Monkeypox video or to point out its lies.

Look harder, boy.

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Quote from: Rama Set
They are advocating, in a utilitarian way, for a strategy that will force people, bigots like you, to pay attention to the health issues facing the community affected most by Monkeypox. How does that mean that bigots aren’t using it to minimize the same community?

We can see by your continuous insults that you do not have a legitimate argument. It appears that your main argument is insults and accusations, which is particularly poor of you.

Considering in your next paragraph you address my arguement, you are obviously being a shithead.

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The article itself does not argue that people merely need to pay more attention, it argues that the strategy of denying that HIV was a gay disease did not work and as a consequence the gay community is still the primary vector of the disease.

Thank you for saying what I said.

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Quote from: Rama Set
It’s still absolutely telling that instead of wanting the most accurate and helpful description of the disease you have instead chosen to label it using a group that you have in the past labeled as immoral and disgusting.

But you don’t care because you hate gay people and want to alienate them and make them the enemy.

No one here said that they thought that gays should be "hated", or were "the enemy" or were "immoral".

You haven’t in this thread, true. Just other threads.

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You are making up your own arguments and insults because you lack the capacity for a legitimate argument on this topic and tend to base your political and societal positions on emotion.

Incorrect. I am basing my arguements on directly observing your bigotry. Look out your window, etc… I then went on to criticize “gay disease” for not being a medical term and not useful because it is a poor description of the disease’s scope. Please, try and keep up and ask questions if you don’t understand. It’s how you improve yourself.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2022, 12:32:15 PM »
It shows that you don't have much of an argument. Homosexuals themselves have conceded that HIV/AIDS a "gay disease". Any disease which disproportionately affects and is spread by gays is a gay disease.

Why is the monkeypox pandemic real but covid is not?
Round Earther patiently looking for a better deal...

If the world is flat, it means that I have been deceived by a global, multi-generational conspiracy spending trillions of dollars over hundreds of years.
If the world is round, it means that you’re just an idiot who believes stupid crap on the internet.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2022, 05:00:38 AM »
You linked me to an amateur leftist website. It's not neutral.

You linked me to an amateur alt-right nationalist video. It's not neutral.

The Monkeypox video isn't about nationalism. Nationalism is also irrelevant to the question of whether Monkeypox is a gay disease. It appears that you have no argument against the video content and have to argue reasons for why you don't need to address it. If you have to argue for why you don't need to argue it is a sign that you lost the argument.

You are unable to address the content and must argue about things other than the video. This is an amazingly clear demonstration that you have no defense at all.

Not falsities. Intentional deceptions.

You have been unable to demonstrate any deceptions which were made in the Monkeypox video.

Quote from: Rama Set
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No one here said that they thought that gays should be "hated", or were "the enemy" or were "immoral".

You haven’t in this thread, true. Just other threads.

Wrong. I have never said that gays should be hated or were the enemy or were immoral. It is apparent that you have to argue by lying, as you have little else.

Quote from: Rama Set
You are making up your own arguments and insults because you lack the capacity for a legitimate argument on this topic Incorrect. I am basing my arguements on directly observing your bigotry. Look out your window, etc… I then went on to criticize “gay disease” for not being a medical term and not useful because it is a poor description of the disease’s scope. Please, try and keep up and ask questions if you don’t understand. It’s how you improve yourself.

You were forced to call the medical community homophobic because they originally named AIDS the “Gay-Related Infectious Disease”. You were also forced to praise homosexual advocates for calling HIV a gay disease while simultaneously claiming that it's a homophobic slur. In this conversation it is clear that you are arguing based on your personal feelings and not much else. Your arguments have flopped like a dying fish on concrete.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 06:56:20 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2022, 07:46:13 AM »
Wrong. I have never said that gays should be hated or were the enemy or were immoral. It is apparent that you have to argue by lying, as you have little else.

I beg to differ...

The Taliban doesn't seem so bad. Aside from the treatment of women as a culture, I don't see many faults with them otherwise.

- They eschew alcohol, tobacco, porn, and drugs
- They hate liberals and Zionists
- They don't allow their women to act like whores
- They have zero open homosexuals or lesbians, and no trannies
- The Taliban banned the Covid-19 vaccine
- Taliban are enemies with ISIS. Usually when people are enemies they have opposite beliefs.
- The Taliban hates drug hustling - "The Taliban enforced a ban on poppy farming via threats, forced eradication, and public punishment of transgressors. The result was a 99% reduction in the area of opium poppy farming in Taliban-controlled areas, roughly three quarters of the world's supply of heroin at the time."

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2022, 08:35:47 AM »
That just says that they don't openly display it. That is not a statement that I believe that being gay is immoral or should be hated. Asking you to keep your sexual desires and bedroom preferences to yourself is not bigotry. Many cultures keep their sexuality to themselves and go as far as to regard any type of flagrant sexual advocacy as improper. A number of cultures eschew displays of heterosexual female sexuality that is prevalent in western culture. I also mentioned the absence of overt female sluttiness as a benefit in Taliban culture in that bullet list.

In China it is legal to be gay, but illegal to promote homosexual ideology in popular entertainment. This is because they believe that people have the right to avoid it. As well, there are strict limits on sexualization in media, heterosexuality included. Religion is also treated this way. Religion is allowed in religious venues but banned elsewhere. In China people have a right to avoid religion.

While these ideals and rights are admirable, none of this has anything to do with Monkeypox or the question of whether Monkeypox is a gay disease. You have abandoned discussion of the video we were talking about.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 04:15:23 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2022, 05:43:19 PM »
That just says that they don't openly display it.

So gays shouldn't be allowed to hold hands in public? Can breeders hold hands in public? What about kiss or hug?

In China it is legal to be gay, but illegal to promote homosexual ideology in popular entertainment

This is not China.

While these ideals and rights are admirable, none of this has anything to do with Monkeypox or the question of whether Monkeypox is a gay disease. You have abandoned discussion of the video we were talking about.

I really don't give a shit about the video. Some alt-right nationalist nazi saying we must label moneybox as a "gay disease" means nothing and is pointless and certainly divisive for no logical reason. It's just a dog whistle for the likes of you.

I'm responding to exactly what you wrote:

"Wrong. I have never said that gays should be hated or were the enemy or were immoral. It is apparent that you have to argue by lying, as you have little else."

When, in actuality, you wrote...

The Taliban doesn't seem so bad...I don't see many faults with them otherwise.
- They have zero open homosexuals or lesbians, and no trannies


You sound like a bigoted segregationist - "It's ok to be black, just don't publically display your blackness."

Rama Set

Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2022, 07:09:20 PM »
And he likes that woman aren’t allowed to dress like WHORES!!! But doesn’t give a flying fuck about what what straight men do.

Offline ohplease

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2022, 07:58:27 PM »
A number of cultures eschew displays of heterosexual female sexuality that is prevalent in western culture. I also mentioned the absence of overt female sluttiness as a benefit in Taliban culture in that bullet list.
I wonder if you really think that represents what is going on today in Afghanistan or if this is just more trolling.  There are numerous reports on this, here is one (emphasis mine):

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Humanitarian groups such as UN Women immediately began documenting changes to the treatment of women, issuing their first Gender Alert in December 2021. In the report, Afghan women spoke of new requirements by the Taliban for women to be accompanied by a male relative in public, restrictions on women’s clothing, barriers to employment, and violence inflicted upon women who protest against the Taliban’s rules. It also highlighted a set of restrictions on the Afghan media, enacted in November 2021, that banned television shows with female actors and forced women newscasters to wear Islamic hijabs. This came in between separate statements made by the Taliban which claimed to have been actively improving women’s rights and equality.

Since the UN Women’s report was published, the situation has only gotten worse.

According to NPR, since the Taliban assumed control, they have prohibited women from working and girls from continuing their schooling past sixth grade, enforced a strict dress code where women are expected to be covered from head to toe with only an opening for their eyes, arrested women for violating the morality code, and allowed the abduction and forced marriage of young girls . Human Rights Watch found that the Taliban has enforced these harsh restrictions, similar to those from the 1990s, through intimidation and inspections.

Filmmaker Ramita Navai told NPR that “Afghanistan is one of the few countries where rates of suicides among women were higher than men,” and since the Taliban took over, suicides across the country have risen sharply. The reason for this, according to Navai is that “life for a lot of women in very rural areas hasn’t changed that much since the Taliban came to power… what has changed is the loss of hope.”

Human Rights Watch reaffirmed these findings, referring to interviews conducted in the Ghazni province where women expressed “fear, anxiety, hopelessness, and a deep sense of loss and helplessness.”

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2022, 08:27:23 PM »
Quote from: ohplease
I wonder if you really think that represents what is going on today in Afghanistan or if this is just more trolling.  There are numerous reports on this, here is one (emphasis mine):

You cited a bunch of things about the abuse of women. That's literally the first criticism I had:

"Aside from the treatment of women as a culture, I don't see many faults with them otherwise."

The abuse isn't good. But they do appear to have strong morals. You have failed to show how the things I mentioned in the positive are actually bad.

Quote from: stack
I really don't give a shit about the video. Some alt-right nationalist nazi saying we must label moneybox as a "gay disease" means nothing and is pointless and certainly divisive for no logical reason. It's just a dog whistle for the likes of you.

Actually she shows how and why it is a gay disease. You have so far avoided discussion of the video content.

Quote from: stack
So gays shouldn't be allowed to hold hands in public? Can breeders hold hands in public? What about kiss or hug?

Brothers hug and there are situations where men do kiss outside of homosexuality. A father might kiss his son. Men also kiss in some cultures as a form of handshake. I don't see why those acts alone would be a flagrant assault on the public.

There is quite a difference between that and a concerted effort to influence other people, such as a teacher having young children read books which advocate that crossdressing is fabulous.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 08:49:26 PM by Tom Bishop »

Offline ohplease

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #72 on: August 23, 2022, 08:42:35 PM »
Quote from: ohplease
I wonder if you really think that represents what is going on today in Afghanistan or if this is just more trolling.  There are numerous reports on this, here is one (emphasis mine):

You cited a bunch of things about the abuse of women. That's literally the first criticism I had:

"Aside from the treatment of women as a culture, I don't see many faults with them otherwise."

The abuse isn't good. But they do appear to have strong morals. You have failed to show how the things I mentioned in the positive are actually bad.
How can allowing all the points that have been well documented be described as "strong morals"?  That's rather like saying that besides the fact that the patient died, the operation was a success.

Rama Set

Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2022, 09:40:25 PM »
Of course Tom thinks that a society that abuses women systemically has strong morals.

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Offline stack

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #74 on: August 23, 2022, 10:41:57 PM »
Quote from: stack
I really don't give a shit about the video. Some alt-right nationalist nazi saying we must label moneybox as a "gay disease" means nothing and is pointless and certainly divisive for no logical reason. It's just a dog whistle for the likes of you.

Actually she shows how and why it is a gay disease. You have so far avoided discussion of the video content.

What percent would it take for you to no longer consider it a gay disease?

Quote from: stack
So gays shouldn't be allowed to hold hands in public? Can breeders hold hands in public? What about kiss or hug?

Brothers hug and there are situations where men do kiss outside of homosexuality. A father might kiss his son. Men also kiss in some cultures as a form of handshake. I don't see why those acts alone would be a flagrant assault on the public.

There is quite a difference between that and a concerted effort to influence other people, such as a teacher having young children read books which advocate that crossdressing is fabulous.

The Taliban is not ok with this, but are you ok with this?:

Image Title - Two Gay Men Kissing

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #75 on: August 23, 2022, 11:34:07 PM »
Quote from:  ohplease
How can allowing all the points that have been well documented be described as "strong morals"?  That's rather like saying that besides the fact that the patient died, the operation was a success.

I agreed that abuse of women was wrong. It is wrong to say that an entire culture has no other possible redeeming qualities because some things are bad, however.

Quote from: stack
The Taliban is not ok with this, but are you ok with this?:

Image Title - Two Gay Men Kissing

I don't care if they kiss.

That might not fly in Muslim countries though, for reasons other than or in addition to having to do with homosexuality specifically.

https://al-ijtihad.com/belief/can-i-kiss-my-wife-in-public-islam.html

    Can I kiss my wife in public Islam?

    No because Islam does not allow to kiss your wives in public because Islam is neat and clean religion and it stops from every wrong work even then it is drinking, drugs and trying abusive language e.t.c. And Islam invites people to itselves and displays a right way.

Egregious kissing in public is already considered improper.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 12:22:45 AM by Tom Bishop »

Offline ohplease

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2022, 12:16:05 AM »
Quote from:  ohplease
How can allowing all the points that have been well documented be described as "strong morals"?  That's rather like saying that besides the fact that the patient died, the operation was a success.

I agreed that abuse of women was wrong. It is wrong to say that an entire culture has no other possible redeeming qualities because some things are bad, however.
"was wrong"?  We're talking about what is going on NOW in Afghanistan.  It also is not just "some things are bad" but it is EXTREMELY bad for HALF the population.  So much so that they are killing themselves in record numbers.  Even if things were great for the other half (men), which they are not, nothing can counter the horror show the Taliban have inflicted on women.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #77 on: August 24, 2022, 12:47:37 AM »
"was wrong"?  We're talking about what is going on NOW in Afghanistan.  It also is not just "some things are bad" but it is EXTREMELY bad for HALF the population.  So much so that they are killing themselves in record numbers.  Even if things were great for the other half (men), which they are not, nothing can counter the horror show the Taliban have inflicted on women.

The same could be said about American prisons or many other places abuse occurs. But both the abuse of women in Afghanistan and the abuse of prisoners in America are irrelevant to the thread topic of Monkeypox.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 02:04:25 AM by Tom Bishop »

Rama Set

Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #78 on: August 24, 2022, 12:54:07 AM »
The ability of you to evaluate how your bigotry affects your choice of language is relevant though.

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Offline stack

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Re: Monkeypox- the best way to attack LGBTQ
« Reply #79 on: August 24, 2022, 01:02:33 AM »
Quote from: stack
I really don't give a shit about the video. Some alt-right nationalist nazi saying we must label moneybox as a "gay disease" means nothing and is pointless and certainly divisive for no logical reason. It's just a dog whistle for the likes of you.

Actually she shows how and why it is a gay disease. You have so far avoided discussion of the video content.

What percent would it take for you to no longer consider it a gay disease?