1
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat Earth at the Beach
« on: June 03, 2020, 11:55:11 AM »
Hi Tom,
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my post. I’m not sure I understand everything you’ve said but maybe we can talk some more and I can learn.
The Ship
The sea at Whitstable is pretty calm- its on the Thames estuary protected by land on most sides. Hence it is popular for sailing and windsurfing but not for actual surfing - there are no waves big enough. The visibility has been particularly good these past few weeks, across the water to Essex on the other side, and out to the East over the estuary.
Now you say I should go and try it on a calm lake instead. Suppose I agree to do that. How should I know what counts as further than should be possible? That isn't something I can tell with my eyes. I suppose you want me to do some math? Could you lay it out for me?
At the beach I didn't have to do any math. I didn't even have to know the distance to the boat. I just saw the letters on the boat disappear behind the water and then re-appear when I looked from higher up. I had good binoculars and the view was sharp and clear - no funny business. It looked like the boat had gone up over a hill. Only, a hill made of water. Now you want me to trust some math over my own eyes on that?
The Sun
I think I agree with you here - watching the sun appear to move across the sky could lead to the direct conclusion that the sun is moving. That's why I could watch the sun travel across the sky at the beach and easily picture it travelling above the flat surface of the ground. That makes sense as a direct conclusion, just like you say.
But then it went down behind the ground, and you haven't said anything about that part. So if I'm trusting my eyes and drawing direct conclusions, then the sun goes around the earth, doesn’t it? But that isn't what the picture in the Wiki looks like? Why should I trust my eyes that it moves, but not trust my eyes as to where it goes?
The Moon
I’ve said that everywhere I go, I see the same face of the moon. Now you want me to draw the most direct conclusions I can from this. Well, okay, I'll try to do that.
If I saw an 8-ball, like from a pool table, in the sky from my garden this morning, and it looked like the the 8 was facing me, my direct conclusion would be that the ball is facing me. If tomorrow I'm on the other side of town, and I see the same ball, and the 8 is facing me again, then maybe it turned to face me.
If, though, all my friends also saw the 8 ball in the sky at the same time, and my mom and dad at their house across town saw it too, and all of them say they saw the 8 facing them too, what would I think? Well, it must've been facing all of us at the same time, right? That means it must have been far away.
That's my direct observation with my own eyes, and only my friends and parents to help. I don't see how bending light comes into it. And I don't seem to need any bending light to make sense of it.
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my post. I’m not sure I understand everything you’ve said but maybe we can talk some more and I can learn.
The Ship
The sea at Whitstable is pretty calm- its on the Thames estuary protected by land on most sides. Hence it is popular for sailing and windsurfing but not for actual surfing - there are no waves big enough. The visibility has been particularly good these past few weeks, across the water to Essex on the other side, and out to the East over the estuary.
Now you say I should go and try it on a calm lake instead. Suppose I agree to do that. How should I know what counts as further than should be possible? That isn't something I can tell with my eyes. I suppose you want me to do some math? Could you lay it out for me?
At the beach I didn't have to do any math. I didn't even have to know the distance to the boat. I just saw the letters on the boat disappear behind the water and then re-appear when I looked from higher up. I had good binoculars and the view was sharp and clear - no funny business. It looked like the boat had gone up over a hill. Only, a hill made of water. Now you want me to trust some math over my own eyes on that?
The Sun
I think I agree with you here - watching the sun appear to move across the sky could lead to the direct conclusion that the sun is moving. That's why I could watch the sun travel across the sky at the beach and easily picture it travelling above the flat surface of the ground. That makes sense as a direct conclusion, just like you say.
But then it went down behind the ground, and you haven't said anything about that part. So if I'm trusting my eyes and drawing direct conclusions, then the sun goes around the earth, doesn’t it? But that isn't what the picture in the Wiki looks like? Why should I trust my eyes that it moves, but not trust my eyes as to where it goes?
The Moon
I’ve said that everywhere I go, I see the same face of the moon. Now you want me to draw the most direct conclusions I can from this. Well, okay, I'll try to do that.
If I saw an 8-ball, like from a pool table, in the sky from my garden this morning, and it looked like the the 8 was facing me, my direct conclusion would be that the ball is facing me. If tomorrow I'm on the other side of town, and I see the same ball, and the 8 is facing me again, then maybe it turned to face me.
If, though, all my friends also saw the 8 ball in the sky at the same time, and my mom and dad at their house across town saw it too, and all of them say they saw the 8 facing them too, what would I think? Well, it must've been facing all of us at the same time, right? That means it must have been far away.
That's my direct observation with my own eyes, and only my friends and parents to help. I don't see how bending light comes into it. And I don't seem to need any bending light to make sense of it.