Common RE Straw Men
« on: October 22, 2018, 09:41:12 AM »
OK, for balance, let's have a RE one too.
While I don't think FET has much merit, there are a lot of people who straw man it and say things like this:



That isn't what FE people believe. The earth is not orbiting the sun in FET, the sun, stars and planet rotate above the plane of the earth.
The earth is not just another planet in the solar system and this one just happens to be flat.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Common RE Straw Men
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2018, 11:52:16 AM »
Your other thread contains a common strawman right in the OP. While you don't state it outright, you do say that FE strawmans "do not paint the FES in a good light". You stop short of directly conflating us with other groups, but the implication is there.

Quite simply, we may be larger and more easily recognisable that these other groups, but it doesn't make us the Big FE Boss who keeps everyone else in line. We can't take responsibility for random individuals, just like you can't take responsibility for the occasional schmuck who comes here and claims that UA would cause the Earth to exceed the speed of light.
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Re: Common RE Straw Men
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2018, 12:55:05 PM »
Your other thread contains a common strawman right in the OP. While you don't state it outright, you do say that FE strawmans "do not paint the FES in a good light". You stop short of directly conflating us with other groups, but the implication is there.

Quite simply, we may be larger and more easily recognisable that these other groups, but it doesn't make us the Big FE Boss who keeps everyone else in line. We can't take responsibility for random individuals, just like you can't take responsibility for the occasional schmuck who comes here and claims that UA would cause the Earth to exceed the speed of light.
I think the issue for you guys is that people will conflate you with those people. FE is still quite niche so people are more likely to see stupid FE things and think they are representative of FE thinking than they are to see stupid RE things and think that everyone who believes in a RE thinks that way.

So while no, you can't stop stupids being stupid, it might be an idea to tackle the issue head on. Maybe a Wiki page could arise from each of these threads dealing with common RE and FE straw man arguments.

And soz for putting them in the wrong section, I actually find the new structure quite confusing in terms of what should go where.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Common RE Straw Men
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 02:02:35 PM »
And soz for putting them in the wrong section, I actually find the new structure quite confusing in terms of what should go where.
That's no problem at all. You didn't do anything wrong. I'm just hoping that by maintaining a "clean" forum structure, we will build some precedent that will provide more clarity than just a text description.

I think the issue for you guys is that people will conflate you with those people.
I largely agree - but it's still a common RE strawman, and as such belongs here ;)
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Re: Common RE Straw Men
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 04:06:45 PM »
Pretty common one is this idea that you can see the curvature of the Earth from an airplane. Often used to suggest one can only be an FE proponent if you've never traveled via one. As we've discussed a number of times here, while the curve left to right is technically more than it is on the ground, it's still a matter of pixels and not discernible with the naked eye from standard commercial airliners' windows, as is often claimed. Even a high quality camera requires the image to be carefully looked at in order to find even the potential for a curve to exist, and it's likely at least some of these are the result of confirmation bias.

Mysfit

Re: Common RE Straw Men
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 05:30:47 PM »
Further to squirrel's point, there are also images which use lens tricks or have actually been photo-shopped from the top of a mountain, or such, to show a ludicrous curve.
I know Pete is fond of one, but I still have no clue how to add an image.

Edit: I found the picture, and Pete helped me work out how to upload one, but the website won't let my country view the pic. I'll just link it.
https://www.mensxp.com/social-hits/news/43928-a-guy-climbed-mt-everest-for-a-selfie-to-once-for-all-prove-the-earth-isn-t-flat.html
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 09:18:07 PM by Mysfit »