Offline Cypher9

  • *
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« on: July 01, 2021, 10:41:34 PM »
Also, is a ball earth necessary for it to work as well?

SteveRossi1216

Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2021, 01:48:24 AM »
GPS is actually ground based repeaters\networks. The G should stand for ground.
There is no gravity so its a definite no. Real gravity is an electromagnetic force
between any object and ground.  Anyone who uses satellite in a sentence does not
realize what goes up must come down.

Offline Cypher9

  • *
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2021, 05:40:39 PM »
GPS is actually ground based repeaters\networks. The G should stand for ground.
There is no gravity so its a definite no. Real gravity is an electromagnetic force
between any object and ground.  Anyone who uses satellite in a sentence does not
realize what goes up must come down.

How can you be so sure gravity doesn't exist?

Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2021, 05:47:17 PM »
GPS is actually ground based repeaters\networks
Do you have any evidence for that? That’s a lot of infrastructure which has to be put in place and maintained. Are all the people who work on that sworn to secrecy for some reason? How does GPS work in the middle of the ocean?
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

*

Offline Iceman

  • *
  • Posts: 1244
  • where there's smoke there's wires
    • View Profile
Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2021, 11:07:47 PM »
Anyone who uses satellite in a sentence does not realize what goes up must come down.

You dont seem to realize that the only thing satellites do once they're in orbit is fall down...

Offline Cypher9

  • *
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2021, 04:56:46 PM »
GPS is actually ground based repeaters\networks
Do you have any evidence for that? That’s a lot of infrastructure which has to be put in place and maintained. Are all the people who work on that sworn to secrecy for some reason? How does GPS work in the middle of the ocean?

Google Maps Mobile uses a land based system so it's clear that it does exist.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2262
    • View Profile
Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2021, 07:09:33 PM »
GPS is actually ground based repeaters\networks
Do you have any evidence for that? That’s a lot of infrastructure which has to be put in place and maintained. Are all the people who work on that sworn to secrecy for some reason? How does GPS work in the middle of the ocean?

Google Maps Mobile uses a land based system so it's clear that it does exist.

Google Maps Mobile uses three different "systems" for location marking - From Google:

How Maps finds your current location
Maps estimates where you are from sources like:

GPS: This uses satellites and knows your location up to around 20 meters. Note: When you're inside buildings or underground, the GPS is sometimes inaccurate.
Wi-Fi: The location of nearby Wi-Fi networks helps Maps know where you are.
Cell tower: Your connection to a cellular network can be accurate up to a few thousand meters.

https://support.google.com/maps/answer/2839911?co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid&hl=en

So yes, thee are ground based "systems" utilized for positioning depending upon need. But GPS is separate and distinct and relies on Satellites, as mentioned by Google themselves. And they would know because they needed to code their map app to connect to GPS and switch to other means when necessary.

Additionally, as AATW pointed out, GPS works in the middle of the ocean 1000's of miles from any land, let alone land-based wifi or cell towers - So how does GPS work if not by satellites way out there?

Offline Cypher9

  • *
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2021, 09:03:15 PM »
But the point I'm making is there is a land based system that functions well enough and so satellites aren't necessary.

Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2021, 09:08:52 PM »
But the point I'm making is there is a land based system that functions well enough and so satellites aren't necessary.
They are necessary when you're in the middle of the ocean.
GPS demonstrably works there, ships use it as their primary method of navigation these days.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2262
    • View Profile
Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2021, 09:29:13 PM »
But the point I'm making is there is a land based system that functions well enough and so satellites aren't necessary.

The point you're missing is that "land" is the operative word. What if you don't have any land (Like way out at sea) and you need your location? Today, you use GPS, not the other two land-based methods, as there is no land.

Anecdote: My wife was crewing on a 44' sailboat from Los Angeles to French Polynesia and back. On the way back, they were trying to thread between two storms and tore their mainsail. She called me on their Sat Phone (Expensive call) and she gave me their coordinates she got off their GPS - They were 1900 or so miles south of Hawaii, about here (red dot):



There were no cell towers or wifi connections anywhere even remotely near them. (They were able to limp to Oahu with just a semi-functioning mainsail, a jib and motoring)

Offline Cypher9

  • *
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2021, 09:32:36 PM »
But the point I'm making is there is a land based system that functions well enough and so satellites aren't necessary.
They are necessary when you're in the middle of the ocean.
GPS demonstrably works there, ships use it as their primary method of navigation these days.

So satellites exist then, okay we've sorted that out.

Offline Cypher9

  • *
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2021, 09:36:48 PM »
But the point I'm making is there is a land based system that functions well enough and so satellites aren't necessary.

The point you're missing is that "land" is the operative word. What if you don't have any land (Like way out at sea) and you need your location? Today, you use GPS, not the other two land-based methods, as there is no land.

Anecdote: My wife was crewing on a 44' sailboat from Los Angeles to French Polynesia and back. On the way back, they were trying to thread between two storms and tore their mainsail. She called me on their Sat Phone (Expensive call) and she gave me their coordinates she got off their GPS - They were 1900 or so miles south of Hawaii, about here (red dot):



There were no cell towers or wifi connections anywhere even remotely near them. (They were able to limp to Oahu with just a semi-functioning mainsail, a jib and motoring)

Now we just have to find out if they're orbiting the earth or whether they are somehow fixed in one position which admittedly seems unlikely.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2262
    • View Profile
Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2021, 10:04:02 PM »
But the point I'm making is there is a land based system that functions well enough and so satellites aren't necessary.

The point you're missing is that "land" is the operative word. What if you don't have any land (Like way out at sea) and you need your location? Today, you use GPS, not the other two land-based methods, as there is no land.

Anecdote: My wife was crewing on a 44' sailboat from Los Angeles to French Polynesia and back. On the way back, they were trying to thread between two storms and tore their mainsail. She called me on their Sat Phone (Expensive call) and she gave me their coordinates she got off their GPS - They were 1900 or so miles south of Hawaii, about here (red dot):



There were no cell towers or wifi connections anywhere even remotely near them. (They were able to limp to Oahu with just a semi-functioning mainsail, a jib and motoring)

Now we just have to find out if they're orbiting the earth or whether they are somehow fixed in one position which admittedly seems unlikely.

Get a satellite tracker app (there are many). Some come with a feature that tells you when specific ones are passing over your area. Pick one out that is near you and look up in the sky and see if you can see it. If you're lucky, you can even see the Starlink train:


Offline Cypher9

  • *
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2021, 10:37:19 PM »
That would suggest the earth is moving I guess.

Offline Action80

  • *
  • Posts: 1022
    • View Profile
Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2021, 07:12:47 PM »
GPS is actually ground based repeaters\networks
Do you have any evidence for that? That’s a lot of infrastructure which has to be put in place and maintained. Are all the people who work on that sworn to secrecy for some reason? How does GPS work in the middle of the ocean?
How does Loran work in the middle of the ocean?

Re: Is gravity necessary for GPS to work?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2021, 08:02:05 PM »
GPS is actually ground based repeaters\networks
Do you have any evidence for that? That’s a lot of infrastructure which has to be put in place and maintained. Are all the people who work on that sworn to secrecy for some reason? How does GPS work in the middle of the ocean?
How does Loran work in the middle of the ocean?

At times waves can reflect of the ionosphere but it depends on the atmospheric conditions

Quote
During the day the ionosphere only weakly reflects shortwave signals, and LORAN was usable at 500–700 nautical miles (930–1,300 km) using the groundwaves. At night these signals were suppressed and the range dropped to 350–500 nautical miles (650–930 km). At night the skywaves became useful for measurements, which extended the effective range to 1,200–1,400 nautical miles

And it wasn't that accurate:

Quote
Moreover, the complex series of received signals considerably confused the reading of the LORAN signal, requiring some interpretation. Accuracy was more a matter of signal quality and operator experience than any fundamental limit of the equipment or signals. The only way to express the accuracy was to measure it in practice; average accuracy on the route from Japan to Tinian, a distance of 1,400 miles (2,300 km), was 28 miles (45 km), 2% of range

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN#Range_and_accuracy

GPS doesn't have those limitations, there are enough satellites that you can triangulate your position accurately wherever and whenever you are.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis