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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1500 on: March 05, 2022, 09:15:13 PM »
It's everything, and I mean everything ever reported by anyone out of various countries, whether clinically assessed or not, whether caused by the vaccine or not. (Ex., how do you succumb to an Alchoholic Seizure from a vaccine?) Here's how the paper should be viewed (From the Introduction, page 5):

The limitations of post-marketing adverse drug event reporting should be considered when
interpreting these data:

• Reports are submitted voluntarily, and the magnitude of underreporting is unknown. Some of the factors that may influence whether an event is reported include: length of time since marketing, market share of the drug, publicity about a drug or an AE, seriousness of the reaction, regulatory actions, awareness by health professionals and consumers of adverse drug event reporting, and litigation.

• Because many external factors influence whether or not an AE is reported, the spontaneous reporting system yields reporting proportions not incidence rates. As a result, it is generally not appropriate to make between-drug comparisons using these proportions; the spontaneous reporting system should be used for signal detection rather than hypothesis testing.

• In some reports, clinical information (such as medical history, validation of diagnosis, time from drug use to onset of illness, dose, and use of concomitant drugs) is missing or incomplete, and follow-up information may not be available.

• An accumulation of adverse event reports (AERs) does not necessarily indicate that a particular AE was caused by the drug; rather, the event may be due to an underlying disease or some other factor(s) such as past medical history or concomitant medication.


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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1501 on: March 05, 2022, 09:21:40 PM »
Yes, lots of side effects are to be expected when it affects your immune system.


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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1502 on: March 05, 2022, 10:23:22 PM »
Yes, lots of side effects are to be expected when it affects your immune system.



Yes.  I can see how alcoholic consumption triggering seizures is definitely a factor of the immune system.  I mean, it is what filters alcohol and what triggers seizures.

 ::)

Also, that Kay woman's twitter feed looks like she's bias as hell.  Wouldn't trust her anectdotes.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1503 on: March 05, 2022, 10:30:31 PM »
What does, "Now, after every month I get sick" mean? After she gets her period she gets sick? Not disparaging, but it's the only monthly thing I can think of.

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Offline junker

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1504 on: March 06, 2022, 04:17:33 AM »
Sorry kid, but you don't usually read about kids in textbooks unless it's about a tragedy.


My wife has 5-10 textbooks in the attic that would disagree with you.

tbh the new york state study shows that the vax is basically useless for kids 5-11. assuming under 5 will need an even smaller dose, there really isn't a reason to push for it.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1505 on: March 06, 2022, 10:42:23 PM »
Ivermectin now shown to be effective, once Uncle Hairy Legs said all is good:

It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1506 on: March 06, 2022, 11:59:20 PM »
Ivermectin now shown to be effective, once Uncle Hairy Legs said all is good:

This could be great news. He says, at 05:25, "...of the odds ratio of 0.381, in other words you're about 70% less likely to die if you take ivermectin compared to taking Remdesivir."



How do you calculate that to get 70%? I'm not questioning it, just don't understand the math. I tried using a Medical Study Odds Ratio Calculator, but there doesn't seem to be enough data, being a conference paper, to calculate it.

This was an interesting hot-take from a commenter, "This is a comparison with the people who took remdesivir, not people who took nothing - could it be that the remdesivir was making things worse, and the ivermectin was doing nothing?" A valid question.

Seems that results have been kind of inconsistent across studies. But yeah, if cheap old Ivermectin is a sound therapy, awesome.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1507 on: March 08, 2022, 09:26:49 AM »
I'll just leave this here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60653946

Obviously the usual suspects with disregard this because it doesn't say what they want, but whatevz.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1508 on: March 08, 2022, 09:38:02 AM »
I'll just leave this here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60653946

Obviously the usual suspects with disregard this because it doesn't say what they want, but whatevz.
But...bu...bu...but...VAERS...
“The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database contains information on unverified reports of adverse events (illnesses, health problems and/or symptoms) following immunization with US-licensed vaccines. Reports are accepted from anyoneand can be submitted electronically

lol. Compelling.
Goddamn...make up your mind...
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1509 on: March 08, 2022, 09:41:05 AM »
You're comparing a public service where ANYONE can report side effects with no oversight or evidence that there's any casual link to the vaccine, to scientific studies.

If you don't understand why those are not the same things then I don't know how to help you.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1510 on: March 08, 2022, 09:46:47 AM »
You're comparing a public service where ANYONE can report side effects with no oversight or evidence that there's any casual link to the vaccine, to scientific studies.

If you don't understand why those are not the same things then I don't know how to help you.
It is an observational study of a source you consider illegitimate, as evidenced by your prior posts in this very thread.

Since the vaccine doesn't actually work, and it has killed people, then your entire take on this can be summarily dismissed without prejudice.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1511 on: March 08, 2022, 09:56:19 AM »
It is an observational study of a source you consider illegitimate
I don't consider it illegitimate, neither do I see it as evidence that we're all going to die from the vaccine.
I'm sure the people reporting reactions are mostly doing so sincerely, but given that anyone can report something that doesn't mean there was a casual link.
So there needs to be some analysis of that data, which is what this report provides.

I'll ignore the rest of your lies.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1512 on: March 08, 2022, 11:04:07 AM »
It is an observational study of a source you consider illegitimate
I don't consider it illegitimate, neither do I see it as evidence that we're all going to die from the vaccine.
I'm sure the people reporting reactions are mostly doing so sincerely, but given that anyone can report something that doesn't mean there was a casual link.
So there needs to be some analysis of that data, which is what this report provides.

I'll ignore the rest of your lies.
You do believe VAERS to be unreliable and illegitimate as you posted earlier, yet somehow observation of the unreliable can be reliable.

I'll ignore all of your lies.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1513 on: March 08, 2022, 11:46:21 AM »
You do believe VAERS to be unreliable and illegitimate as you posted earlier

No. I was responding to Tom's post where he said

By the CDC's own data, there were more deaths from the vaccine last week in the US than there were from the Coronavirus:

And he used VAERS data to back that up. That isn't valid and if you look at my post in the ensuing conversation, which you have dishonestly omitted, I explain why that's not valid:

I'm not saying that people are reporting falsely - some may be, and you've cited an example where someone did.
But the point is anyone can report an incident. This it not official government data. These were reported in the last week.
No-one has investigated all these cases and officially found a causal link between these deaths and the vaccine.

TL;DR - the VAERS data is not "illegitimate" and I never said it was. It may be unreliable but that needs further investigation.
Which has been done. That's the study I linked to is about.

Don't you get tired of so dishonestly misrepresenting people?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1514 on: March 08, 2022, 12:09:25 PM »
You do believe VAERS to be unreliable and illegitimate as you posted earlier

No. I was responding to Tom's post where he said

By the CDC's own data, there were more deaths from the vaccine last week in the US than there were from the Coronavirus:

And he used VAERS data to back that up. That isn't valid and if you look at my post in the ensuing conversation, which you have dishonestly omitted, I explain why that's not valid:

I'm not saying that people are reporting falsely - some may be, and you've cited an example where someone did.
But the point is anyone can report an incident. This it not official government data. These were reported in the last week.
No-one has investigated all these cases and officially found a causal link between these deaths and the vaccine.

TL;DR - the VAERS data is not "illegitimate" and I never said it was. It may be unreliable but that needs further investigation.
Which has been done. That's the study I linked to is about.

Don't you get tired of so dishonestly misrepresenting people?
When it comes to your garbage, there can be no misrepresentation.

Your study is garbage. It is an observational study based on incomplete sources,

Your entire position during this whole plandemic has been in the sole service of inflicting the most possible harm on the most possible number of people.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1515 on: March 08, 2022, 01:17:59 PM »
Vaers is the only government reporting mechanism for its affect on the US population. It is disingenuous to reject it in favor of zero data when you have no positive evidence in your favor.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1516 on: March 08, 2022, 01:33:49 PM »
Vaers is the only government reporting mechanism for its affect on the US population. It is disingenuous to reject it in favor of zero data
Which is not what's happened.
I rejected your hysterical conclusions which were based on self-reported data. That is erroneous when no investigation had been done to determine a causal link.
That had now been done which is the report I linked to. Fancy having a look to see what that found?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1517 on: March 08, 2022, 03:28:01 PM »
Vaers is the only government reporting mechanism for its affect on the US population. It is disingenuous to reject it in favor of zero data
Which is not what's happened.
I rejected your hysterical conclusions which were based on self-reported data. That is erroneous when no investigation had been done to determine a causal link.
That had now been done which is the report I linked to. Fancy having a look to see what that found?

Yes, I looked at the lancet paper linked in the bbc article. It merely re-reports on what VAERS claims. It doesn't say that the VAERS reports are false.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00054-8/fulltext

Quote
Findings
During the study period, 298 792 852 doses of mRNA vaccines were administered in the USA. VAERS processed 340 522 reports: 313 499 (92·1%) were non-serious, 22 527 (6·6%) were serious (non-death), and 4496 (1·3%) were deaths. Over half of 7 914 583 v-safe participants self-reported local and systemic reactogenicity, more frequently after dose two (4 068 447 [71·7%] of 5 674 420 participants for local reactogenicity and 4 018 920 [70·8%] for systemic) than after dose one (4 644 989 [68·6%] of 6 775 515 participants for local reactogenicity and 3 573 429 [52·7%] for systemic). Injection-site pain (4 488 402 [66·2%] of 6 775 515 participants after dose one and 3 890 848 [68·6%] of 5 674 420 participants after dose two), fatigue (2 295 205 [33·9%] participants after dose one and 3 158 299 participants [55·7%] after dose two), and headache (1 831 471 [27·0%] participants after dose one and 2 623 721 [46·2%] participants after dose two) were commonly reported during days 0–7 following vaccination. Reactogenicity was reported most frequently the day after vaccination; most reactions were mild. More reports of being unable to work, do normal activities, or of seeking medical care occurred after dose two (1 821 421 [32·1%]) than after dose one (808 963 [11·9%]); less than 1% of participants reported seeking medical care after vaccination (56 647 [0·8%] after dose one and 53 077 [0·9%] after dose two).

Interpretation
Safety data from more than 298 million doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine administered in the first 6 months of the US vaccination programme show that most reported adverse events were mild and short in duration.

If you had actually bothered to read it, you would see that it is not asserting that VAERS is false at all. It accepts that 8% of those people had serious conditions and states that most reports are less-serious. It does not contradict, object to, or discredit anything in VAERS. It merely reports what is asserted in VAERS.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 03:41:15 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1518 on: March 08, 2022, 03:42:22 PM »
It doesn't say that the VAERS reports are false.
Define false in this context.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1519 on: March 08, 2022, 03:54:10 PM »
It's not a paper which contradicts VAERS.

If anything the paper is just trying to downplay what it means. As in "Yeah, there were a lot of reactions which sent people to the doctor, and 8% of people in VAERS had serious life threatening conditions, but not everyone died, no big deal."

The paper accepts what VAERS reports. It does not say it is false.