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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1480 on: February 22, 2022, 01:54:33 PM »
Quote
Quote
You act like the .02% is a legitimate number.
I mean, I was making it high.  Let me grab the real number...
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html#18-serious-adverse-events

.06% had serious side effects in the vaccine group.  .05% in the placebo group.
Meaning its .01% of people likely had vaccine related issues that were serious.
That is some serious math you got going on there!

The .06% number stands alone and there is no reduction in that number just because Sally down the street had some of the same serious side effects by drinking plain old water.
Kinda does, yeah.  Means the side effects may not be related to the vaccine.  The goal is to determine what happens with and without the vaccine.  If people have the same issue regardless, you can't attribute it to the vaccine itself.  Same with any medicine or any study with a control group.
If 100 people drink the new pepsi, another 100 drink only water, and 10 from each group puke... New pepsi probably didn't make them puke.  Unless the control group was just a coincidence.
No, absolutely not. Incorrect.
Why?
If two groups have the same side effects from two different substances (one being water, one being medicine) why is it that the medicine side effects were caused by the medicine?  And what caused the ones who took water to have the side effect?


Quote
Know wnat?
Sure.
Lets agree on that then.
Glad you approve of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine at least.
I approve of valid clinical trials and full transparency.

You, it seems at least, (based on your posts), approve of underhanded shady dealings by pharmaceutical companies and world governments.

Unbelievable.
Well... Yeah.  I support capitalism, not government regulations.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1481 on: February 22, 2022, 03:41:50 PM »
Quote
Quote
You act like the .02% is a legitimate number.
I mean, I was making it high.  Let me grab the real number...
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html#18-serious-adverse-events

.06% had serious side effects in the vaccine group.  .05% in the placebo group.
Meaning its .01% of people likely had vaccine related issues that were serious.
That is some serious math you got going on there!

The .06% number stands alone and there is no reduction in that number just because Sally down the street had some of the same serious side effects by drinking plain old water.
Kinda does, yeah.  Means the side effects may not be related to the vaccine.  The goal is to determine what happens with and without the vaccine.  If people have the same issue regardless, you can't attribute it to the vaccine itself.  Same with any medicine or any study with a control group.
If 100 people drink the new pepsi, another 100 drink only water, and 10 from each group puke... New pepsi probably didn't make them puke.  Unless the control group was just a coincidence.
No, absolutely not. Incorrect.
Why?
If two groups have the same side effects from two different substances (one being water, one being medicine) why is it that the medicine side effects were caused by the medicine?  And what caused the ones who took water to have the side effect?
POINT ONE - Please link a paper written by an INDEPENDENT source that provides a .06 percent number for adverse reactions to the Pfizer vaccine.

Betcha can't do that.


Quote
Know wnat?
Sure.
Lets agree on that then.
Glad you approve of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine at least.
I approve of valid clinical trials and full transparency.

You, it seems at least, (based on your posts), approve of underhanded shady dealings by pharmaceutical companies and world governments.

Unbelievable.

Well... Yeah.  I support capitalism, not government regulations.
LOL!


We have discussed economic systems before and the odds of you having any sort of idea or concept of capitalism is beyond the pale. You got no clue at all.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 04:33:07 PM by Action80 »
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1482 on: February 22, 2022, 04:21:19 PM »
Quote
Quote
You act like the .02% is a legitimate number.
I mean, I was making it high.  Let me grab the real number...
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html#18-serious-adverse-events

.06% had serious side effects in the vaccine group.  .05% in the placebo group.
Meaning its .01% of people likely had vaccine related issues that were serious.
That is some serious math you got going on there!

The .06% number stands alone and there is no reduction in that number just because Sally down the street had some of the same serious side effects by drinking plain old water.
Kinda does, yeah.  Means the side effects may not be related to the vaccine.  The goal is to determine what happens with and without the vaccine.  If people have the same issue regardless, you can't attribute it to the vaccine itself.  Same with any medicine or any study with a control group.
If 100 people drink the new pepsi, another 100 drink only water, and 10 from each group puke... New pepsi probably didn't make them puke.  Unless the control group was just a coincidence.
No, absolutely not. Incorrect.
Why?
If two groups have the same side effects from two different substances (one being water, one being medicine) why is it that the medicine side effects were caused by the medicine?  And what caused the ones who took water to have the side effect?
POINT ONE - Please link a paper written by an INDEPENDENT source that provides a .06 percent number for adverse reactions to the Pfizer vaccine.

Betcha can't do that.
Please define indepentant.  Because i'd like to not waste my time when you move goalposts.

Quote
Quote
Quote
Know wnat?
Sure.
Lets agree on that then.
Glad you approve of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine at least.
I approve of valid clinical trials and full transparency.

You, it seems at least, (based on your posts), approve of underhanded shady dealings by pharmaceutical companies and world governments.

Unbelievable.
Well... Yeah.  I support capitalism, not government regulations.
LOL!


We have discussed economic systems before and the odds of you having any sort of idea or concept of capitalism is beyond the pale. You got no clue at all.


Not a hard concept.  Individuals sell products for their own personal profit.
Capitalism, in its pure form, has no rules.  No ethics.  Just profit.  Sell your product, get your profit.  Who cares if they aren't happy so long as you are.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1483 on: February 23, 2022, 04:00:51 PM »
Please define indepentant.  Because i'd like to not waste my time when you move goalposts.
A paper written by a firm not hired by Pfizer to conduct a research trial. At least one of the firms employed by Pfizer released bullshit data.
Not a hard concept.  Individuals sell products for their own personal profit.
Capitalism, in its pure form, has no rules.  No ethics.  Just profit.  Sell your product, get your profit.  Who cares if they aren't happy so long as you are.
Oh, I see.

And you believe Pfizer is currently conducting business in a pure, capitalistic economic sense?
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1484 on: February 23, 2022, 06:58:21 PM »
Please define indepentant.  Because i'd like to not waste my time when you move goalposts.
A paper written by a firm not hired by Pfizer to conduct a research trial. At least one of the firms employed by Pfizer released bullshit data.


Analysis of COVID-19 Vaccine Type and Adverse Effects Following Vaccination

Key Points
Question  What factors are associated with adverse effects after COVID-19 vaccination?

Findings  In an online cohort study including 19 586 adults who received a COVID-19 vaccination, the factors most strongly associated with adverse effects were full vaccination dose, brand of vaccine, younger age, female sex, and having had COVID-19 before vaccination. Allergic reaction or anaphylaxis was reported in 0.3% of participants after partial vaccination and 0.2% of participants after full vaccination.

Meaning  These findings suggest that some individuals experience more adverse effects after COVID-19 vaccination, but serious adverse effects are rare.

Results  The 19 586 participants had a median (IQR) age of 54 (38-66) years, and 13 420 (68.8%) were women. Allergic reaction or anaphylaxis was reported in 26 of 8680 participants (0.3%) after 1 dose of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer/BioNTech) or mRNA-1273 (Moderna) vaccine, 27 of 11 141 (0.2%) after 2 doses of the BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 vaccine or 1 dose of the JNJ-78436735 (Johnson & Johnson) vaccine. The strongest factors associated with adverse effects were vaccine dose (2 doses of BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 or 1 dose of JNJ-78436735 vs 1 dose of BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273; odds ratio [OR], 3.10; 95% CI, 2.89-3.34; P < .001), vaccine brand (mRNA-1273 vs BNT162b2, OR, 2.00; 95% CI, 1.86-2.15; P < .001; JNJ-78436735 vs BNT162b2: OR, 0.64; 95% CI, 0.52-0.79; P < .001), age (per 10 years: OR, 0.74; 95% CI, 0.72-0.76; P < .001), female sex (OR, 1.65; 95% CI, 1.53-1.78; P < .001), and having had COVID-19 before vaccination (OR, 2.17; 95% CI, 1.77-2.66; P < .001).

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1485 on: February 24, 2022, 05:34:11 AM »
Please define indepentant.  Because i'd like to not waste my time when you move goalposts.
A paper written by a firm not hired by Pfizer to conduct a research trial. At least one of the firms employed by Pfizer released bullshit data.


Analysis of COVID-19 Vaccine Type and Adverse Effects Following Vaccination

Key Points
Question  What factors are associated with adverse effects after COVID-19 vaccination?

Findings  In an online cohort study including 19 586 adults who received a COVID-19 vaccination, the factors most strongly associated with adverse effects were full vaccination dose, brand of vaccine, younger age, female sex, and having had COVID-19 before vaccination. Allergic reaction or anaphylaxis was reported in 0.3% of participants after partial vaccination and 0.2% of participants after full vaccination.

Meaning  These findings suggest that some individuals experience more adverse effects after COVID-19 vaccination, but serious adverse effects are rare.

Results  The 19 586 participants had a median (IQR) age of 54 (38-66) years, and 13 420 (68.8%) were women. Allergic reaction or anaphylaxis was reported in 26 of 8680 participants (0.3%) after 1 dose of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer/BioNTech) or mRNA-1273 (Moderna) vaccine, 27 of 11 141 (0.2%) after 2 doses of the BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 vaccine or 1 dose of the JNJ-78436735 (Johnson & Johnson) vaccine. The strongest factors associated with adverse effects were vaccine dose (2 doses of BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 or 1 dose of JNJ-78436735 vs 1 dose of BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273; odds ratio [OR], 3.10; 95% CI, 2.89-3.34; P < .001), vaccine brand (mRNA-1273 vs BNT162b2, OR, 2.00; 95% CI, 1.86-2.15; P < .001; JNJ-78436735 vs BNT162b2: OR, 0.64; 95% CI, 0.52-0.79; P < .001), age (per 10 years: OR, 0.74; 95% CI, 0.72-0.76; P < .001), female sex (OR, 1.65; 95% CI, 1.53-1.78; P < .001), and having had COVID-19 before vaccination (OR, 2.17; 95% CI, 1.77-2.66; P < .001).


Thanks, Stack.
I was just gonna ignore him because I have better shit to do than feed a troll whose not gonna accept anything I throw out anyway.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1486 on: February 24, 2022, 04:37:24 PM »
Thanks, Stack.
I was just gonna ignore him because I have better shit to do than feed a troll whose not gonna accept anything I throw out anyway.
Stack didn't help you at all.

I am sure Pfizer is acting according to capitalism as you understand it, which actually speaks volumes about your understanding rather than capitalism.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1487 on: February 24, 2022, 05:57:33 PM »
Thanks, Stack.
I was just gonna ignore him because I have better shit to do than feed a troll whose not gonna accept anything I throw out anyway.
Stack didn't help you at all.

I am sure Pfizer is acting according to capitalism as you understand it, which actually speaks volumes about your understanding rather than capitalism.

You asked for a non-Pfizer independent source. You got one. Why not address what you asked for rather than deflecting toward whatever your notion of "capitalism" is?

Is it that you simply have an issue with Pfizer alone and not the other vaccines India has been using to dole out 1.8 billion doses?

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1488 on: February 25, 2022, 11:19:06 AM »
Thanks, Stack.
I was just gonna ignore him because I have better shit to do than feed a troll whose not gonna accept anything I throw out anyway.
Stack didn't help you at all.

I am sure Pfizer is acting according to capitalism as you understand it, which actually speaks volumes about your understanding rather than capitalism.

You asked for a non-Pfizer independent source. You got one. Why not address what you asked for rather than deflecting toward whatever your notion of "capitalism" is?

Is it that you simply have an issue with Pfizer alone and not the other vaccines India has been using to dole out 1.8 billion doses?
Where does your non-independent source help re: 0.06? Let alone, methodology.

From your source: "there is little real-world, patient-reported data on adverse effects after receiving COVID-19 vaccination and in whom adverse effects may be more common."
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 11:21:22 AM by Action80 »
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1489 on: February 25, 2022, 06:16:06 PM »
Thanks, Stack.
I was just gonna ignore him because I have better shit to do than feed a troll whose not gonna accept anything I throw out anyway.
Stack didn't help you at all.

I am sure Pfizer is acting according to capitalism as you understand it, which actually speaks volumes about your understanding rather than capitalism.

You asked for a non-Pfizer independent source. You got one. Why not address what you asked for rather than deflecting toward whatever your notion of "capitalism" is?

Is it that you simply have an issue with Pfizer alone and not the other vaccines India has been using to dole out 1.8 billion doses?

Where does your non-independent source help re: 0.06? Let alone, methodology.

Under the heading called "Methods".

Before I waste more time, what stats are you actually looking for? Stats for any After Effects (AE), Severe After Effects (SAE - Usually defined as would you have to miss a day of work after a jab) and/or Life-Threatening After Effects (Like going into anaphylactic shock and can't breathe or some heart inflammation issue, etc.

From your source: "there is little real-world, patient-reported data on adverse effects after receiving COVID-19 vaccination and in whom adverse effects may be more common."

Yep. And that's what the study set out to tackle.

Do you have an issue with Pfizer alone and not the other vaccines India has been using to dole out 1.8 billion doses? Would you prefer Russia's Sputnik vax?

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1490 on: February 26, 2022, 02:58:11 PM »
Thanks, Stack.
I was just gonna ignore him because I have better shit to do than feed a troll whose not gonna accept anything I throw out anyway.
Stack didn't help you at all.

I am sure Pfizer is acting according to capitalism as you understand it, which actually speaks volumes about your understanding rather than capitalism.

You asked for a non-Pfizer independent source. You got one. Why not address what you asked for rather than deflecting toward whatever your notion of "capitalism" is?

Is it that you simply have an issue with Pfizer alone and not the other vaccines India has been using to dole out 1.8 billion doses?

Where does your non-independent source help re: 0.06? Let alone, methodology.

Under the heading called "Methods".

Before I waste more time, what stats are you actually looking for? Stats for any After Effects (AE), Severe After Effects (SAE - Usually defined as would you have to miss a day of work after a jab) and/or Life-Threatening After Effects (Like going into anaphylactic shock and can't breathe or some heart inflammation issue, etc.

From your source: "there is little real-world, patient-reported data on adverse effects after receiving COVID-19 vaccination and in whom adverse effects may be more common."

Yep. And that's what the study set out to tackle.

Do you have an issue with Pfizer alone and not the other vaccines India has been using to dole out 1.8 billion doses? Would you prefer Russia's Sputnik vax?
I asked for a source independent of Pfizer's bullshit marketing ploy regarding adverse effects citing support for the Norwegian's #'s. You got nothing.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1491 on: February 26, 2022, 08:15:56 PM »
Thanks, Stack.
I was just gonna ignore him because I have better shit to do than feed a troll whose not gonna accept anything I throw out anyway.
Stack didn't help you at all.

I am sure Pfizer is acting according to capitalism as you understand it, which actually speaks volumes about your understanding rather than capitalism.

You asked for a non-Pfizer independent source. You got one. Why not address what you asked for rather than deflecting toward whatever your notion of "capitalism" is?

Is it that you simply have an issue with Pfizer alone and not the other vaccines India has been using to dole out 1.8 billion doses?

Where does your non-independent source help re: 0.06? Let alone, methodology.

Under the heading called "Methods".

Before I waste more time, what stats are you actually looking for? Stats for any After Effects (AE), Severe After Effects (SAE - Usually defined as would you have to miss a day of work after a jab) and/or Life-Threatening After Effects (Like going into anaphylactic shock and can't breathe or some heart inflammation issue, etc.

From your source: "there is little real-world, patient-reported data on adverse effects after receiving COVID-19 vaccination and in whom adverse effects may be more common."

Yep. And that's what the study set out to tackle.

Do you have an issue with Pfizer alone and not the other vaccines India has been using to dole out 1.8 billion doses? Would you prefer Russia's Sputnik vax?
I asked for a source independent of Pfizer's bullshit marketing ploy regarding adverse effects citing support for the Norwegian's #'s. You got nothing.

And I gave you a source. The CDC figures Dave provided were in relation to Severe Side Effects. As defined: Serious adverse events were defined as any untoward medical occurrence that resulted in death, was life-threatening, required inpatient hospitalization or prolongation of existing hospitalization, or resulted in persistent disability/incapacity.

In the independent study I provided, severe side effects were as follows:

There was not a statistically significant difference in odds of severe or very severe adverse effects reported by participants receiving the JNJ-78436735 vaccine compared with the BNT162b2 vaccine (OR, 1.03; 95% CI, 0.67-1.58; P = .89).

Pretty much inline with the CDC. If you had actually read the study, you might know this.

In any case, do you have an issue with Pfizer alone and not the other vaccines India has been using to dole out 1.8 billion doses? Would you prefer Russia's Sputnik vax? India uses that one a lot.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1492 on: February 27, 2022, 05:45:03 PM »
I'm sure nothing could go wrong here:

Prior to this whole business of vaccines for respiratory illnesses (which do not prevent you from catching OR spreading said illnesses), you got a vaccine if you desired to be immune to the effects of the virus. Now, with this development, pharma intends to give you the vaccine whether you want it or not.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1493 on: February 27, 2022, 09:33:27 PM »
I'm sure nothing could go wrong here:
Now, with this development, pharma intends to give you the vaccine whether you want it or not.

When should we expect this to occur? This is nothing new. According to the article Mr. Dore cites, folks have been messing around with this tech for at least 20 years. Also, is Mr. Dore your sole source of info these days?

Lastly, you never answered the question: Do you have an issue with Pfizer alone and not the other vaccines India has been using to dole out 1.8 billion doses? Would you prefer Russia's Sputnik vax?

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1494 on: February 28, 2022, 09:51:48 AM »
Interesting video about attitudes towards the vaccine across the political divide in the US and what those attitudes are based on

Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1495 on: March 03, 2022, 03:56:30 AM »
Sorry kid, but you don't usually read about kids in textbooks unless it's about a tragedy.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 03:58:25 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1496 on: March 03, 2022, 11:25:24 AM »
Sorry kid, but you don't usually read about kids in textbooks unless it's about a tragedy.

Did you mean to post this in terrible political memes? That’s about the level of your punditry here.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1497 on: March 03, 2022, 12:24:11 PM »
Sorry kid, but you don't usually read about kids in textbooks unless it's about a tragedy.


My wife has 5-10 textbooks in the attic that would disagree with you.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1499 on: March 05, 2022, 08:53:34 PM »
It looks like Phizer is finally releasing its safety data.

The Pfizer Vaccine Only Has 1,291 Side Effects! - A judge forced the FDA to release Pfizer's clinical data and it's worse than you can possibly imagine

Is that a list of everything the vaccine caused (because they did a study) or a list of everything that people got after getting the vaccine?
Because one is not the same as the other.
Like I could die from a gunshot wound after taking the vaccine.  Doesn't mean the vaccine shot me.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.