The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Rushy on February 19, 2019, 03:34:37 PM

Title: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 19, 2019, 03:34:37 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/vermont-sen-bernie-sanders-enters-crowded-2020-presidential-race

If you didn't feel the Bern in 2016, here's your second chance to catch it.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 19, 2019, 03:47:34 PM
I'm iffy.  He doesn't have much of a shot and its gonna be crowded.  Like 2016 on the republicans.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Cain on February 19, 2019, 09:09:51 PM
He's also really fucking old. He'll probably die of a gunshot wound to the back of the head heart attack if he becomes president.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 20, 2019, 02:55:17 AM
He's also really fucking old. He'll probably die of a gunshot wound to the back of the head heart attack if he becomes president.


Trump is 72.  Sanders is 77.


And if Trump ain't dead from all the fast food....
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 20, 2019, 09:07:19 AM
And if Trump ain't dead from all the fast food....
Trump's health is presidential. He is the healthiest person to ever be in office. Believe me.

Also, who cares how old Bernie is? If he dies, Ben & Jerry's will just replace him with their next candidate. Most people won't even notice
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 20, 2019, 03:08:45 PM
I unironically donated to a political candidate for the first time ever. 

It's time...


(https://i.imgur.com/uoqgRKS.jpg)
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on February 20, 2019, 04:51:57 PM
I unironically donated to a political candidate for the first time ever. 

It's time...


(https://i.imgur.com/uoqgRKS.jpg)
Yeah, good luck with that donation...

In 2018, the DNC said the rules require:

"The Democratic National Committee (DNC) adopted a new rule on Friday aimed at keeping outsider candidates like Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) from trying to clinch the Democratic presidential nomination in 2020."

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/391459-dnc-panel-adopts-rule-requiring-candidates-to-run-serve-as-a-democrat (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/391459-dnc-panel-adopts-rule-requiring-candidates-to-run-serve-as-a-democrat)
Please note the capital "I" following Bernie's name...

This will fly like the proverbial lead balloon...

LMMFAO!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Snupes on February 21, 2019, 03:57:30 AM
Quote
“At the time a presidential candidate announces their candidacy publicly, they must publicly affirm that they are a Democrat,”

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how is this incredibly lenient rule going to stop Bernie from running?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 21, 2019, 08:39:39 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/EIiGo9M.jpg)

Edit: Obnoxiously large picture
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: markjo on February 22, 2019, 07:59:57 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/9f/26/dc9f263f3e0cecfb0a118e839fd53184.jpg)

Edit: Obnoxiously large picture
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 22, 2019, 08:34:14 PM
Jesus was about left leaning hippy as you get yet he is loved more by the religious right.  Go figure.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 22, 2019, 10:34:25 PM
Jesus stopped being Jewish the moment he claimed to be the son of God. Judaism is a religion that, by its very nature, requires its followers to not believe they're God.

Jesus also was busy changing the world in his 30s while Bernie has managed to make it to his 70s having done nothing at all.

Jews are the reason Jesus was crucified. Modern Jews have rejected the messiah and are damned for eternity if they do not repent.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 22, 2019, 10:42:48 PM
...while Bernie has managed to make it to his 70s having done nothing at all.

Imagine unirconically believing this...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 22, 2019, 11:18:58 PM
...while Bernie has managed to make it to his 70s having done nothing at all.

Imagine unirconically believing this...

Name a bill Bernie has authored and what kind of impact it has had on America.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 22, 2019, 11:27:47 PM
...while Bernie has managed to make it to his 70s having done nothing at all.

Imagine unirconically believing this...

Name a bill Bernie has authored and what kind of impact it has had on America.

What on earth does that have to do with your previous claim? Unless that is really what you meant by it and just didn't say so. If so, that bit about Jesus in his 30s doesn't make much sense.

I'd be happy to go down this road with you. But you should probably first start by clarifying what you actually meant, and then substantiating that claim (or at least substantiate the claim you made, which I quoted). That would be far more productive than whatever you are trying to do here.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 22, 2019, 11:59:42 PM
Good God. Why is American politics full of geriatrics? Pelosi, Trump, Sanders. Why don't these fossils retire?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 23, 2019, 12:04:42 AM
What on earth does that have to do with your previous claim? Unless that is really what you meant by it and just didn't say so. If so, that bit about Jesus in his 30s doesn't make much sense.

I'd be happy to go down this road with you. But you should probably first start by clarifying what you actually meant, and then substantiating that claim (or at least substantiate the claim you made, which I quoted). That would be far more productive than whatever you are trying to do here.

Why do I need to clarify? I claimed Bernie has done practically nothing at all during his entire career in politics, then asked for a bill he authored. I figured that was a pretty straight forward request.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 23, 2019, 12:06:21 AM
Isn't Bernie one of the Founding Fathers?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on February 23, 2019, 12:41:00 AM
What on earth does that have to do with your previous claim? Unless that is really what you meant by it and just didn't say so. If so, that bit about Jesus in his 30s doesn't make much sense.

I'd be happy to go down this road with you. But you should probably first start by clarifying what you actually meant, and then substantiating that claim (or at least substantiate the claim you made, which I quoted). That would be far more productive than whatever you are trying to do here.

Why do I need to clarify? I claimed Bernie has done practically nothing at all during his entire career in politics, then asked for a bill he authored. I figured that was a pretty straight forward request.

I guess this is Rushy clarifying he meant politics, since its the first time this thread he has used that word.  Or the word career for that matter.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 23, 2019, 01:42:14 AM
Why do I need to clarify?
Because you made a rather generalized and sweeping statement.

I claimed Bernie has done practically nothing at all during his entire career in politics
You literally did no such thing. I would suggest going back and reading what you wrote.

...then asked for a bill he authored.
Which I think is a valid topic of discussion. You should have said that instead of saying something else and then pretending like everyone should have automatically understood what you meant. What is more likely is that you just wanted a sick bern (lmao), and are now trying to add context to where there was none before.

I figured that was a pretty straight forward request.
Excellent... So how does that relate to you comparing him to Jesus in his 30s under the same context? Did Jesus author some great legislation prior to his death that Bernard just won't ever be able to compare to?


I guess this is Rushy clarifying he meant politics, since its the first time this thread he has used that word.  Or the word career for that matter.

^^
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: markjo on February 23, 2019, 02:06:48 AM
...while Bernie has managed to make it to his 70s having done nothing at all.

Imagine unirconically believing this...

Name a bill Bernie has authored and what kind of impact it has had on America.
https://www.congress.gov/member/bernard-sanders/S000033?q={%22sponsorship%22%3A%22sponsored%22}
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 23, 2019, 03:33:55 AM
What did Jesus actually do to change the world?  Far as I know, he has a lot of stories but overall had little impact on the world at large.



Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 23, 2019, 03:41:05 AM
Because you made a rather generalized and sweeping statement.

I made the statement that he's done nothing of note, career or otherwise, during his life.

I claimed Bernie has done practically nothing at all during his entire career in politics
You literally did no such thing. I would suggest going back and reading what you wrote.

Bernie hasn't done anything in his entire life.

Which I think is a valid topic of discussion. You should have said that instead of saying something else and then pretending like everyone should have automatically understood what you meant. What is more likely is that you just wanted a sick bern (lmao), and are now trying to add context to where there was none before.

You seem more interested in meme trolling about context rather than having any kind of valid discussion.

Excellent... So how does that relate to you comparing him to Jesus in his 30s under the same context? Did Jesus author some great legislation prior to his death that Bernard just won't ever be able to compare to?

I'm not the one who tried to literally compare Bernie to Jesus in the first place. One is the centerpiece of the largest religion on the planet and the other is a man who got kicked out of a commune for being lazy.

I guess this is Rushy clarifying he meant politics, since its the first time this thread he has used that word.  Or the word career for that matter.

^^

I meant everything in his life in general, he's been a pretty useless tool. His politics is that of laziness and deferment to other people. When Hillary stole conventions from him right before everyone's eyes, what did he do? Nothing at all. He's weak and useless. This year another "The Chosen One" Democrat will run right over Bernie and he'll turn around and use his donations to buy another vacation home, just like he did in 2016.

https://www.congress.gov/member/bernard-sanders/S000033?q={%22sponsorship%22%3A%22sponsored%22}

Sponsoring a bill is not the same thing as authoring one, but I'm sure you already knew that, right?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 23, 2019, 04:06:03 AM
...while Bernie has managed to make it to his 70s having done nothing at all.

Imagine unirconically believing this...

Name a bill Bernie has authored and what kind of impact it has had on America.

What on earth does that have to do with your previous claim?

Imagine unironically not knowing that the best way to judge the success of a legislator is to look at the scope of the legislation he has authored and passed.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 23, 2019, 04:28:58 AM
I made the statement that he's done nothing of note, career or otherwise, during his life.
Excellent, now we are getting somewhere. Now, all you have to do is provide evidence for your claim.

Bernie hasn't done anything in his entire life.
Perfect, now just back that claim up and we are good to go.

You seem more interested in meme trolling about context rather than having any kind of valid discussion.
I don't think I could have been more clear about my interest in having a valid discussion. I can go back and show you, if you would like. You are the one who resorted to a lazy quip that you ended up being challenged on. I think the real problem is that you would rather deflect than actually back up statements that you make. Actually, that sounds a lot like meme trolling... Excellent, deflecting and projecting at the same time. Very impressive.

I'm not the one who tried to literally compare Bernie to Jesus in the first place.
It doesn't seem anyone "literally" tried to compare Bernie to Jesus. What you were looking at is called a "meme." I do believe you are well-versed in them. Irrespective of that, I didn't compare him to Jesus in any capacity, so your objection is with someone else. You are the one who continued on with the comparison. I am simply holding you to your own words.

One is the centerpiece of the largest religion on the planet and the other is a man who got kicked out of a commune for being lazy.
That is a cool story. One guy literally got nailed to a crucifix because he was a moron, and the other guy raised 6 million dollars for his cause in a day (and that is just his most recent accomplishment lmao).

I meant everything in his life in general, he's been a pretty useless tool. His politics is that of laziness and deferment to other people. When Hillary stole conventions from him right before everyone's eyes, what did he do? Nothing at all. He's weak and useless. This year another "The Chosen One" Democrat will run right over Bernie and he'll turn around and use his donations to buy another vacation home, just like he did in 2016.
This is an excellent opinion piece. It combines all of the latest hot takes from Twitter. Let me know when you actually plan to defend your original claim, though.

Imagine unironically not knowing that the best way to judge the success of a legislator is to look at the scope of the legislation he has authored and passed.
That was a great sentence that shows you have no idea what you are talking about. I would suggest starting from the beginning, maybe taking a look at the claims being made, applying some critical thinking, and then trying again. I know context can be difficult. If you find yourself struggling with anything that has been discussed up to this point, just let me know and I would be happy to help out. Otherwise, maybe let the adults here do the talking.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 23, 2019, 04:42:28 AM
Excellent, now we are getting somewhere. Now, all you have to do is provide evidence for your claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

I don't think I could have been more clear about my interest in having a valid discussion. I can go back and show you, if you would like. You are the one who resorted to a lazy quip that you ended up being challenged on. I think the real problem is that you would rather deflect than actually back up statements that you make. Actually, that sounds a lot like meme trolling... Excellent, deflecting and projecting at the same time. Very impressive.

I'm not the one who pretended to not understand the point I was making.

It doesn't seem anyone "literally" tried to compare Bernie to Jesus. What you were looking at is called a "meme." I do believe you are well-versed in them. Irrespective of that, I didn't compare him to Jesus in any capacity, so your objection is with someone else. You are the one who continued on with the comparison. I am simply holding you to your own words.

Most memes are meant to make a funny, but genuine point. Few memes are meant to not be taken seriously whatsoever. In fact, the entire point of memetic propaganda is to instill a certain viewpoint on the reader. No one spreads information without the purpose of instilling thoughts into those who read it. That would be the equivalent of posting something and intending no one to ever read it.

That is a cool story. One guy literally got nailed to a crucifix because he was a moron, and the other guy raised 6 million dollars for his cause in a day (and that is just his most recent accomplishment lmao).

Six million dollars that will go directly to his next vacation home. Apparently the phrase "trick me once..." had no impact whatsoever on Bern-outs. I look forward to more students talking about how they donated part of their loans to Bernie anticipating student loan forgiveness.

This is an excellent opinion piece. It combines all of the latest hot takes from Twitter. Let me know when you actually plan to defend your original claim, though.

I like how you still haven't posted any legislation he's authored lmao. It's almost like the only thing he's ever done in his career is name some post offices. I certainly hope you were only joking about actually donating to him.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 23, 2019, 04:43:19 AM
I was trying to be pedantic like all the high IQ cool kids and failed miserably, so now I have to resort to name calling.

Ah. Well, I don't know what to tell you coach. I guess post some of Bernie's accolades?

Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 23, 2019, 05:08:48 AM
Ah. Well, I don't know what to tell you coach. I guess post some of Bernie's accolades?
Thankfully, Rushy has killed two birds with one stone for us all here:

Excellent, now we are getting somewhere. Now, all you have to do is provide evidence for your claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

I can't wait until Rushy realizes that he proved his own claim false and answered your question at the same time. Very helpful

I'm not the one who pretended to not understand the point I was making.
I believe that, since it is obvious you didn't actually understand the point you were making. There was no pretending required.

Most memes are meant to make a funny, but genuine point. Few memes are meant to not be taken seriously whatsoever. In fact, the entire point of memetic propaganda is to instill a certain viewpoint on the reader. No one spreads information without the purpose of instilling thoughts into those who read it. That would be the equivalent of posting something and intending no one to ever read it.
I definitely want to learn more about the intricacies of memes. I was unaware that they had such a rigid structure as described here. Having said that, even if it was a bad meme, or somehow not a meme at all, it still doesn't do anything to support your claim. Literally nothing you have said up to this point has supported your initial claim that I called you out on. Of course, you know that already.

Six million dollars that will go directly to his next vacation home. Apparently the phrase "trick me once..." had no impact whatsoever on Bern-outs. I look forward to more students talking about how they donated part of their loans to Bernie anticipating student loan forgiveness.
Top notch political commentary. Although, based on this, the capitalists and libertarians should be envious. Although, maybe he didn't create enough value for shareholders for them to think this is fair. Let me know how much money Jesus was able to raise in 24 hours. Seems like Bernie beat this guy's life achievements within the last week.

I like how you still haven't posted any legislation he's authored lmao. It's almost like the only thing he's ever done in his career is name some post offices. I certainly hope you were only joking about actually donating to him.
Is that the actual topic at hand? You keep waffling back and forth on what you want to have "valid" discussion around. Is it his life, his career, or what? But also, I happily concede he hasn't authored a lot of life-changing legislation. You make it sound like that is his primary function. It turns out there is a lot more to being a Senator than that. Crazy, right? I'd suggest looking at a lot of current congresspeople and their lack of authoring super important legislation as well. But, I am sure you Googled all of this before posting, so you already know. I hear his amendment game is pretty solid, though (which you also already know). So, just let me know where you want the goal posts, and maybe we can keep the discussion centered there. Because your one specific metric for success thus far defeats your own initial claim.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 23, 2019, 06:35:54 AM
Quote
Professional history
After graduating from college, Sanders returned to New York City, where he initially worked at a variety of jobs, including Head Start teacher, psychiatric aide, and carpenter.[30] In 1968, Sanders moved to Vermont because he had been "captivated by rural life." After his arrival there he worked as a carpenter,[31] filmmaker, and writer[46] who created and sold "radical film strips" and other educational materials to schools.[47] He also wrote several articles for the alternative publication The Vermont Freeman.[48]

Quote
Legislation
Prior to his 2016 presidential run, Sanders was known as a legislator who advocated for progressive causes, but "rarely forged actual legislation or left a significant imprint on it."[114] According to The New York Times, "Big legislation largely eludes Mr. Sanders because his ideas are usually far to the left of the majority of the Senate ... Mr. Sanders has largely found ways to press his agenda through appending small provisions to the larger bills of others."[115] During his time in the Senate, Sanders had lower "legislative effectiveness" than the average Senator, as measured by the number of sponsored bills that passed and successful amendments made.[116]

Radical film strips.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 23, 2019, 02:19:31 PM
I can't wait until Rushy realizes that he proved his own claim false and answered your question at the same time. Very helpful

I can't believe I'm being "your retartet but u donut even kno it and I walnut tel u y" by junker.

I believe that, since it is obvious you didn't actually understand the point you were making. There was no pretending required.

Pretending Bernie isn't anything other than a joke for undergraduates to throw money at is a lot of effort.

I definitely want to learn more about the intricacies of memes. I was unaware that they had such a rigid structure as described here. Having said that, even if it was a bad meme, or somehow not a meme at all, it still doesn't do anything to support your claim. Literally nothing you have said up to this point has supported your initial claim that I called you out on. Of course, you know that already.

You mean the claim that Bernie is a man who's had a career containing no major accomplishments and merely lived off tax money of his equally inept supporters? At least he's not a hypocrite. He lived off the state while doing nothing, and he wants to make sure you can do the same, which at this point I'm not sure is an insult.

Top notch political commentary. Although, based on this, the capitalists and libertarians should be envious. Although, maybe he didn't create enough value for shareholders for them to think this is fair. Let me know how much money Jesus was able to raise in 24 hours. Seems like Bernie beat this guy's life achievements within the last week.

I am envious, I too would like to run a donation scam of such magnificent proportions as Bernie, it's the only remarkable achievement he had in his life, just unfortunate that he only achieved it by his 70s.

Is that the actual topic at hand? You keep waffling back and forth on what you want to have "valid" discussion around. Is it his life, his career, or what? But also, I happily concede he hasn't authored a lot of life-changing legislation. You make it sound like that is his primary function. It turns out there is a lot more to being a Senator than that. Crazy, right? I'd suggest looking at a lot of current congresspeople and their lack of authoring super important legislation as well. But, I am sure you Googled all of this before posting, so you already know. I hear his amendment game is pretty solid, though (which you also already know). So, just let me know where you want the goal posts, and maybe we can keep the discussion centered there. Because your one specific metric for success thus far defeats your own initial claim.

I like how you've now made it to three different replies which still don't contain what I asked for, instead you just want to have a pointless meta discussion about how I question Bernie's life goals. He's been a legislator for over a decade, surely he has authored some bill that he put his weight behind and got pushed through Congress. Was it a bill to help the poor? Was it bill to help the rich? Was it a bill to help him decide which of his three vacation homes he'd like to stay at this year?

Just accept that the Chosen One of the DNC this election is Kamala Harris. The DNC isn't going to allow a white male to go up against Trump.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 23, 2019, 05:50:22 PM
I like how you've now made it to three different replies which still don't contain what I asked for, instead you just want to have a pointless meta discussion about how I question Bernie's life goals.
Apparently asking you to substantiate your claim is "pointless meta discussion." You can just admit that you were wrong and rushed to shift the conversation to:
Name a bill Bernie has authored and what kind of impact it has had on America.

which has nothing to do with your original claim, especially in the context of your comparison to Jesus. Your nonsense troll tactics may work on others, but it won't fly here. You should stop letting your feelings get in the way of facts. But, to satisfy your absolutely genuine interest in discussion, I'll play along. S.893 was a helpful COLA for veterans. Now how about you support your initial claim or retract it?

Just accept that the Chosen One of the DNC this election is Kamala Harris. The DNC isn't going to allow a white male to go up against Trump.
She probably is, but that still isn't even remotely relevant to your claim. It seems you are the one engaging in pointless meta discussion about the state of the Democratic party. If you want to discuss the actual topic of the thread, you should probably do that instead of trolling about people you personally dislike.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 23, 2019, 06:03:31 PM
Apparently asking you to substantiate your claim is "pointless meta discussion." You can just admit that you were wrong and rushed to shift the conversation to:
Name a bill Bernie has authored and what kind of impact it has had on America.

which has nothing to do with your original claim, especially in the context of your comparison to Jesus. Your nonsense troll tactics may work on others, but it won't fly here. You should stop letting your feelings get in the way of facts. But, to satisfy your absolutely genuine interest in discussion, I'll play along. S.893 was a helpful COLA for veterans. Now how about you support your initial claim or retract it?

Like Markjo, I should tell you that a sponsor is not the same thing as an author. Sponsoring a bill doesn't mean you authored the bill, contributed to it in any way, or even read it at all. Notice how that bill has 17 other sponsors on it. That's nearly 1/5 of the Senate. Do you really think they all spent time authoring a COLA bill? I certainly hope you don't.

She probably is, but that still isn't even remotely relevant to your claim. It seems you are the one engaging in pointless meta discussion about the state of the Democratic party. If you want to discuss the actual topic of the thread, you should probably do that instead of trolling about people you personally dislike.

You mean my claim that Bernie hasn't done anything of note in his entire life? Try just looking at his wikipedia page and then realize he's spent his entire legislative career doing a whole lot of nothing at all.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 23, 2019, 06:45:36 PM
Like Markjo, I should tell you that a sponsor is not the same thing as an author. Sponsoring a bill doesn't mean you authored the bill, contributed to it in any way, or even read it at all. Notice how that bill has 17 other sponsors on it. That's nearly 1/5 of the Senate. Do you really think they all spent time authoring a COLA bill? I certainly hope you don't.
As expected, instead of actually supporting your own claim, you continue to deflect to something else. Just to point out to the folks watching at home, you have not provided any evidence for your claim which I called you out on. As I said before, I would be happy to go down this (unrelated) road with you, but I am afraid I will have to require you to substantiate your previous claim before moving on to something else. Otherwise I would just be supporting disingenuous troll attempts, and that is just a bad look.


You mean my claim that Bernie hasn't done anything of note in his entire life? Try just looking at his wikipedia page and then realize he's spent his entire legislative career doing a whole lot of nothing at all.
I would also suggest you read the wiki, and maybe even some more articles regarding his accomplishments. Except this time, remove your personal feelings and bias. The results may just shock you. You can continue to dislike him and disagree with him of course, I am not trying to change your mind.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 23, 2019, 07:17:40 PM
As expected, instead of actually supporting your own claim, you continue to deflect to something else. Just to point out to the folks watching at home, you have not provided any evidence for your claim which I called you out on. As I said before, I would be happy to go down this (unrelated) road with you, but I am afraid I will have to require you to substantiate your previous claim before moving on to something else. Otherwise I would just be supporting disingenuous troll attempts, and that is just a bad look.

I'm sorry you didn't know the difference between sponsoring a bill and actually authoring one. Look, I'll make it easy on you. Bernie has only ever authored three bills in his career. Of those three bills, which one do you like the most?

I would also suggest you read the wiki, and maybe even some more articles regarding his accomplishments. Except this time, remove your personal feelings and bias. The results may just shock you. You can continue to dislike him and disagree with him of course, I am not trying to change your mind.

I'm having a hard time seeing any, do you mind pointing them out?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 23, 2019, 07:21:05 PM
What did Jesus actually do to change the world?  Far as I know, he has a lot of stories but overall had little impact on the world at large.
Well there was Christianity, Judaism and Islam ... he features in all 3 of those and no one follows Roman gods or any other pegan religion, but sure he achieved nothing whatsoever and it is unlikely that his uprising caused Rome to abandon its own religion and found the Vatican city right there in Rome making it the world Capital for CHRISTianity.  ::)
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 23, 2019, 07:33:19 PM
As expected, instead of actually supporting your own claim, you continue to deflect to something else. Just to point out to the folks watching at home, you have not provided any evidence for your claim which I called you out on. As I said before, I would be happy to go down this (unrelated) road with you, but I am afraid I will have to require you to substantiate your previous claim before moving on to something else. Otherwise I would just be supporting disingenuous troll attempts, and that is just a bad look.

I'm sorry you didn't know the difference between sponsoring a bill and actually authoring one. Look, I'll make it easy on you. Bernie has only ever authored three bills in his career. Of those three bills, which one do you like the most?

I would also suggest you read the wiki, and maybe even some more articles regarding his accomplishments. Except this time, remove your personal feelings and bias. The results may just shock you. You can continue to dislike him and disagree with him of course, I am not trying to change your mind.

I'm having a hard time seeing any, do you mind pointing them out?

I like how you continue to reply, but fail to include an answer to the request that you support your claim. We can discuss your ignorance of the legislative process as soon as you answer my very simple request.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 23, 2019, 07:53:38 PM
I like how you continue to reply, but fail to include an answer to the request that you support your claim. We can discuss your ignorance of the legislative process as soon as you answer my very simple request.

I know legislature is complicated but you linking to a "look at this bill that Bernie and 17 other people sponsored lmao" really puts a dent in your ability to argue your point, so this really just looks like you avoiding the topic entirely.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 23, 2019, 08:01:11 PM
I like how you continue to reply, but fail to include an answer to the request that you support your claim. We can discuss your ignorance of the legislative process as soon as you answer my very simple request.

I know legislature is complicated but you linking to a "look at this bill that Bernie and 17 other people sponsored lmao" really puts a dent in your ability to argue your point, so this really just looks like you avoiding the topic entirely.

Another post without any support for your claim. This may be a record. I wonder how long it can go on.

Again, you've already displayed your ignorance of how legislation in America works, and that's a fine topic you help you understand. However, you'll have to stop deflecting first and provide support for your claim that I continually ask for but for some reason you refuse to give.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 24, 2019, 04:10:08 AM
The literal meme candidate.

(https://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/system/images/photo_albums/bernie-sanders-memes/large/3.jpg?1384968217)
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on February 24, 2019, 07:54:39 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/9f/26/dc9f263f3e0cecfb0a118e839fd53184.jpg)

Edit: Obnoxiously large picture


Jesus wasn't socialist.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on February 25, 2019, 03:13:12 AM
Jesus was a red-blooded capitalist who died for your right to bear arms.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Cain on February 25, 2019, 11:20:57 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/9f/26/dc9f263f3e0cecfb0a118e839fd53184.jpg)

Edit: Obnoxiously large picture


Jesus wasn't socialist.
Yes, he's considered a form of early proto-socialist.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on February 25, 2019, 12:58:55 PM
I made the statement that he's done nothing of note, career or otherwise, during his life.
Excellent, now we are getting somewhere. Now, all you have to do is provide evidence for your claim.
He did prove it.

When you have the ability to type and nothing is typed...proof of nothing.

Now of course, you have the opportunity to counter and I certainly await with baited breath for your "nothing," response.
Bernie hasn't done anything in his entire life.
Perfect, now just back that claim up and we are good to go.
See above.
You seem more interested in meme trolling about context rather than having any kind of valid discussion.
I don't think I could have been more clear about my interest in having a valid discussion. I can go back and show you, if you would like. You are the one who resorted to a lazy quip that you ended up being challenged on. I think the real problem is that you would rather deflect than actually back up statements that you make. Actually, that sounds a lot like meme trolling... Excellent, deflecting and projecting at the same time. Very impressive.
I saw nothing lazy...
I'm not the one who tried to literally compare Bernie to Jesus in the first place.
It doesn't seem anyone "literally" tried to compare Bernie to Jesus. What you were looking at is called a "meme." I do believe you are well-versed in them. Irrespective of that, I didn't compare him to Jesus in any capacity, so your objection is with someone else. You are the one who continued on with the comparison. I am simply holding you to your own words.
Oh...
One is the centerpiece of the largest religion on the planet and the other is a man who got kicked out of a commune for being lazy.
That is a cool story. One guy literally got nailed to a crucifix because he was a moron, and the other guy raised 6 million dollars for his cause in a day (and that is just his most recent accomplishment lmao).
"There's a sucker born every minute." - PT Barnum
I meant everything in his life in general, he's been a pretty useless tool. His politics is that of laziness and deferment to other people. When Hillary stole conventions from him right before everyone's eyes, what did he do? Nothing at all. He's weak and useless. This year another "The Chosen One" Democrat will run right over Bernie and he'll turn around and use his donations to buy another vacation home, just like he did in 2016.
This is an excellent opinion piece. It combines all of the latest hot takes from Twitter. Let me know when you actually plan to defend your original claim, though.
Lemme guess...

Bernie lent you a balloon and you too applied it to your head and the hair has blurred your vision...
Imagine unironically not knowing that the best way to judge the success of a legislator is to look at the scope of the legislation he has authored and passed.
That was a great sentence that shows you have no idea what you are talking about. I would suggest starting from the beginning, maybe taking a look at the claims being made, applying some critical thinking, and then trying again. I know context can be difficult. If you find yourself struggling with anything that has been discussed up to this point, just let me know and I would be happy to help out. Otherwise, maybe let the adults here do the talking.
Well, that would be you and you alone...similar to the recent AOC approach regarding the Green New Deal...

Anytime you want to pony up with some facts about Bernie and all the terrific policies he has advocated and successfully fostered within the hallowed halls of Congress, by all means...go right ahead.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 25, 2019, 01:29:32 PM
He did prove it.

You managed to make it through the whole thread, and somehow the best reply you could come up with is "no u." Thankfully, it let me know that there was no reason to read anything else you wrote since your opening take was that low-effort.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on February 25, 2019, 04:36:44 PM
Bernie has done nothing of note in Congress. He is a meme candidate whose claim to fame is angrily yelling about the rich.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on February 25, 2019, 04:51:06 PM
He did prove it.
Sorry...can't think of nothin...
FTFY
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 25, 2019, 05:26:28 PM
He did prove it.
Sorry...can't think of nothin...
FTFY

Are you wanting me to make your argument for you? I would suggest you go back and read the thread again to clear up your obvious misunderstanding.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 25, 2019, 07:59:26 PM
ITT: Junker doesn't know how to read.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 25, 2019, 08:19:25 PM
ITT: Junker doesn't know how to read.

I thought you were going to leave this to the grownups...

Let me know what you are struggling with and I will try to help when I get around to it.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 25, 2019, 08:27:05 PM
Bernie is going to get steamrolled by Black Hillary in the primaries.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 25, 2019, 08:31:09 PM
Bernie is going to get steamrolled by Black Hillary in the primaries.

Can't we just wait for it to happen before you try to ruin my dreams...

Also I am hearing QAnon rumors that says Republicans in open primary states will vote for Bernie to get him on the ticket to divide the neoliberals. Even going so far as switching parties in cases where they can do so in time.


EDIT - also Kamala Harris is an objectively despicable human being.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 25, 2019, 08:35:55 PM
Bernie is going to get steamrolled by Black Hillary in the primaries.

Can't we just wait for it to happen before you try to ruin my dreams...

Also I am hearing QAnon rumors that says Republicans in open primary states will vote for Bernie to get him on the ticket to divide the neoliberals. Even going so far as switching parties in cases where they can do so in time.

It's also possible that the dems won't let Bernie run at all, though that might encourage him to run as an independent, which would drive Trump's chances of winning 2020 towards infinity. The most likely case is that Bernie runs again, gets shit on in the caucus states yet again, then he gives 90% of his donation money to Black Hillary and keeps the other 10% for his next vacation home.

The real question at this point is how good of a chance Trump has versus Black Hillary, at least, the DNC better hope they pick Black Hillary, if they pick Warren then it's Trump 2020 time.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 25, 2019, 10:47:59 PM
Let me know what you are struggling with and I will try to help when I get around to it.

I'm struggling in trying to figure out how you'd be so dumb that you'd donate to a political candidate who has done nothing significant while being in office for so long.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 25, 2019, 10:50:33 PM
Let me know what you are struggling with and I will try to help when I get around to it.

I'm struggling in trying to figure out how someone could be so dumb that he'd donate to a political candidate who has done nothing significant while being in office for so long.

Ah, so you are just struggling with reading comprehension and critical thinking. To be honest, I am not sure I can help you with that. I am glad we were able to get to the root of your problem though!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 25, 2019, 10:53:25 PM
Ah, so you are just struggling with reading comprehension and critical thinking.

No, I'm struggling with trying to figure out why you're such an idiot. Is it biological, or did something external cause you to lose cognitive ability?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 25, 2019, 10:56:14 PM
Ah, so you are just struggling with reading comprehension and critical thinking.

No, I'm struggling with trying to figure out why you're such an idiot. Is it biological, or did something external cause you to lose cognitive ability?

And this is the conclusion one reaches when they go full "feels over reals."
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 25, 2019, 11:02:29 PM
At any rate, Bernie will probably rake in the donations from hapless retarts and gracefully bow out like he did before to make way for Kamala or Warren.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 25, 2019, 11:05:18 PM
At any rate, Bernie will probably rake in the donations from hapless retarts and gracefully bow out like he did before to make way for Kamala or Warren.

Who would you prefer? Or do you not care?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 25, 2019, 11:47:54 PM
Whoever has the best chance of losing to Trump. So probably Warren.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 25, 2019, 11:57:55 PM
Whoever has the best chance of losing to Trump. So probably Warren.
Please let it be Pocahontas.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 26, 2019, 12:36:54 AM
Let me know what you are struggling with and I will try to help when I get around to it.

I'm struggling in trying to figure out how you'd be so dumb that you'd donate to a political candidate who has done nothing significant while being in office for so long.

This is just Junker's latest meme troll. It's doubtful he actually donated to Bernie, he's just trying to rile everyone up, and he's doing a decent job.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 26, 2019, 12:44:13 AM
Let me know what you are struggling with and I will try to help when I get around to it.

I'm struggling in trying to figure out how you'd be so dumb that you'd donate to a political candidate who has done nothing significant while being in office for so long.

This is just Junker's latest meme troll. It's doubtful he actually donated to Bernie, he's just trying to rile everyone up, and he's doing a decent job.

As a Libertarian, and just like Rushy, I never troll.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on February 26, 2019, 01:31:33 PM
Why would you support Bernie if you're a libertarian?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 26, 2019, 02:12:05 PM
Why would you support Bernie if you're a libertarian?

As a Libertarian, I figured that was obvious. but I guess you're as sharp as Thork.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on February 26, 2019, 02:30:02 PM
It's obvious why a libertarian would support a socialist?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 26, 2019, 02:31:14 PM
It's obvious why a libertarian would support a socialist?

he's doing a decent great job.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 26, 2019, 02:35:59 PM
It's obvious why a libertarian would support a socialist?
Apparently we are the crazy ones.  ???
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 26, 2019, 04:12:48 PM
It's obvious why a libertarian would support a socialist?
Apparently we are the crazy ones.  ???

I think we are finally making some progress...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 26, 2019, 08:24:38 PM
He was just trolling all along guys.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 26, 2019, 08:28:38 PM
Socialism isn't a joke. You don't muck around with dangerous stuff like that.  >:(
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 26, 2019, 08:34:55 PM
He was just trolling all along guys.
As a Libertarian, I never troll. Didn't I make that clear already?


Socialism isn't a joke. You don't muck around with dangerous stuff like that.  >:(
Socialism is life, friend.

Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Cain on February 27, 2019, 01:18:20 AM
Junker, would you like a free helicopter ride?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Snupes on February 27, 2019, 02:26:32 AM
tfw Junker is copping that reddit guy's schtick
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 27, 2019, 02:42:18 AM
tfw Junker is copping that reddit guy's schtick

>implying im not that reddit guy
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 06, 2019, 07:39:57 AM
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/05/700524861/bernie-sanders-signs-democratic-party-loyalty-pledge-for-2020-run

Fuck you DNC.  It wasn't good when the RNC did it and its not when you do.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Snupes on March 06, 2019, 10:55:37 AM
Quote
“At the time a presidential candidate announces their candidacy publicly, they must publicly affirm that they are a Democrat,”

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how is this incredibly lenient rule going to stop Bernie from running?

Looks like the answer is "not at all".
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on March 06, 2019, 05:51:11 PM
This pledge is good for Bernie.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Boots on January 26, 2020, 04:08:22 AM
I like this vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYUohmHF6mY
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Shane on February 15, 2020, 04:40:01 PM
I'm unironically supporting Bernie.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 15, 2020, 08:26:11 PM
I'm unironically supporting Bernie.

that is why we are friends
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Crudblud on February 16, 2020, 07:36:00 AM
Were I eligible to vote I would unironically support Bernie now that my boy Yang is out.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on February 16, 2020, 03:32:58 PM
Currently, Medicare provides Part A and Part B.

Medicare Part A covers:

Inpatient hospital care
Skilled nursing facility care
Inpatient care at a skilled nursing facility (not custodial or long term care)
Hospice care
Home health care

You had to have worked a certain amount of time in order to qualify for premium free Part A Medicare, which you get beginning at age 65.

Otherwise, monthly premiums are $458.00 a month.

There is $1,408 deductible for each benefit period, with $0 copay for days 1-60.

Days 61-90 cost you $352 per day for each benefit period.

Days 91 and beyond cost you $704 per each"lifetime reserve day," for each benefit period (lifetime reserve = 60 days).

After that, it's all on you.

Medicare Part B premium = $144.60 if your income is $87,000 or below and file single (174k if filing joint), $202.00 if 87k-109k, etc.

Medicare Part B covers doctor visits, doctor care while in the hospital, outpatient therapy, and durable medical equipment, and the deductible is $198.

Co-pay = 20% of the "Medicare Approved Amount."

Medicare Part C is Medicare Advantage and usually has a high deductible, but low monthly premiums.

Medicare Part D covers prescription drugs and costs vary by provider.

Currently, private insurance providers, such as United Healthcare, provide what is called Medicare Supplemental Insurance to cover the costs of deductibles and pay for services not covered by Medicare, such as dentists, hearing aids, vision, etc.

Supplemental insurance costs for Plan F (the supplement covering nearly every cost not covered by Medicare) vary from $150.00 in some states to as high as $300.00 in others.

Not only does Bernie want to put every swinging dick and tit on Medicare, he has no freaking clue what the true cost of this approach will mean to every American.

Bernie can go screw himself .
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 16, 2020, 04:30:24 PM
You could have at least spent five minutes reviewing Bernie's actual healthcare plan instead of copy/pasting the current Medicare structure. I know, that is a lot to ask.

Don't worry it will only cost 150 trillion a year which is of course the "true" cost to Americans.

I am very smart.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on February 16, 2020, 05:16:07 PM
You could have at least spent five minutes reviewing Bernie's actual healthcare plan instead of copy/pasting the current Medicare structure. I know, that is a lot to ask.

Don't worry it will only cost 150 trillion a year which is of course the "true" cost to Americans.

I am very smart.
Bernie has an actual plan?

Funny...I haven't seen it yet...

He hasn't even signed off on the one I did see, and that is pretty nonspecific on the actual numbers...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 16, 2020, 05:19:22 PM
Bernie has an actual plan?

Funny...I haven't seen it yet...

Yes, we know.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: garygreen on February 16, 2020, 06:12:06 PM
let's definitely keep the current system wherein i pay a shitload of money every month for health insurance but still can't afford to actually go see a doctor.  i'm literally just sending money to an insurance company every week so that if i ever get cancer i can get just enough treatment to go bankrupt before i die.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on February 16, 2020, 06:33:22 PM
Bernie has an actual plan?

Funny...I haven't seen it yet...

Yes, we know.
who is "we?"

Come on...be sharing like your hero...post a link!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on February 16, 2020, 06:35:26 PM
let's definitely keep the current system wherein i pay a shitload of money every month for health insurance but still can't afford to actually go see a doctor.  i'm literally just sending money to an insurance company every week so that if i ever get cancer i can get just enough treatment to go bankrupt before i die.
You can thank government involvement in healthcare for your current predicament.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: garygreen on February 16, 2020, 08:59:26 PM
You can thank government involvement in healthcare for your current predicament.

indeed.  the government's involvement in securing profits for the health insurance industry should cease immediately.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 16, 2020, 09:10:30 PM
who is "we?"

Come on...be sharing like your hero...post a link!

The "we" in this case is the community your are posting in. I know context can be difficult but please try to make at least a little bit of an effort. I know you claim to be super old, but even you should be able to handle basic internet searches.

Also my dude, I have roughly zero interest in discussing modern healthcare policy with someone who unironically says things like:

If healthcare was in vogue then, it was within the town where the doctor was performing house calls and accepting chickens or apples in return for service.

I have no idea if you are a troll  or an out-of-touch boomer, but either way I am not interested. You will end up with the same healthcare as everyone else eventually, assuming you aren't nearly dead at this point.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on February 17, 2020, 11:22:18 AM
It would be interesting if one you who is attached to Bernie at the hip could get him to explain this...

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file (https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file)
" 4 percent income-based premium paid by households...Revenue raised: $3.5 trillion over ten years."

VS

His website:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/ (https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/)
"No networks, no premiums, no deductibles, no copays, no surprise bills."

He can't even get his own story straight...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Tumeni on February 17, 2020, 11:31:52 AM
Currently, Medicare provides Part A and Part B. ....

What do you actually WANT, though?

As a non-American, I know that my taxes have, in part, covered things such that I can get taken care of in cases of medical emergency without suffering financial ruin. Americans don't seem to have the same safety net.

Do you want the safety net? Are you American?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on February 17, 2020, 11:47:43 AM
Currently, Medicare provides Part A and Part B. ....

What do you actually WANT, though?

As a non-American, I know that my taxes have, in part, covered things such that I can get taken care of in cases of medical emergency without suffering financial ruin. Americans don't seem to have the same safety net.

Do you want the safety net? Are you American?
I want people to recognize that government can't fix anything (as evidenced by their track record) and anyone promising "free" stuff is a shyster.

I want to live free and then die...as nature intended.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 17, 2020, 12:24:46 PM
Currently, Medicare provides Part A and Part B. ....

What do you actually WANT, though?

As a non-American, I know that my taxes have, in part, covered things such that I can get taken care of in cases of medical emergency without suffering financial ruin. Americans don't seem to have the same safety net.

Do you want the safety net? Are you American?

Allow me to explain American philosophy:
"If you can't save yourself, why should I help?"

Basically they want the safety net, but only for themselves.  Because its cheaper.  The less money they give to others, the better.



Currently, Medicare provides Part A and Part B. ....

What do you actually WANT, though?

As a non-American, I know that my taxes have, in part, covered things such that I can get taken care of in cases of medical emergency without suffering financial ruin. Americans don't seem to have the same safety net.

Do you want the safety net? Are you American?
I want people to recognize that government can't fix anything (as evidenced by their track record) and anyone promising "free" stuff is a shyster.

I want to live free and then die...as nature intended.
You should avoid hospitals and doctors and civilization then.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 20, 2020, 12:11:35 AM
https://www.newsweek.com/72-democratic-voters-believe-bernie-sanders-would-beat-trump-2020-election-new-poll-shows-1488010

Apparently Democrats think he's most likely to beat Trump out of all the candidates. This is important because a lot of Democrats are putting ability to defeat Trump ahead of any other issues in the primaries.

Go Bernie!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 20, 2020, 05:42:18 AM
https://www.newsweek.com/72-democratic-voters-believe-bernie-sanders-would-beat-trump-2020-election-new-poll-shows-1488010

Apparently Democrats think he's most likely to beat Trump out of all the candidates. This is important because a lot of Democrats are putting ability to defeat Trump ahead of any other issues in the primaries.

Go Bernie!

I don't put stock in polls these days.  Not after 2016.

Even so, beating Trump is my top priority.  Hell, I'd vote for another republican over Trump.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 20, 2020, 12:04:34 PM
Even so, beating Trump is my top priority.  Hell, I'd vote for another republican over Trump.
Don't you like low unemployment and a strong economy?  ???
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 20, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
Even so, beating Trump is my top priority.  Hell, I'd vote for another republican over Trump.
Don't you like low unemployment and a strong economy?  ???

Yes, all praise Barack Obama for getting our country out of one of its worst financial crises in history and starting the period of economic prosperity we're currently in.

Good on Trump for not fucking it up yet, I guess. I'm sure he's saving it for his second term like most Republican presidents (that's when the more unsavory aspects of his "massive tax cut" are set to kick in). Of course our national debt is soaring under his watch so it's not like it's all roses.

Does anybody else remember when the Republicans were supposed to be the party of "fiscal responsibility"?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 20, 2020, 02:01:00 PM
Even so, beating Trump is my top priority.  Hell, I'd vote for another republican over Trump.
Don't you like low unemployment and a strong economy?  ???

Yes, all praise Barack Obama for getting our country out of one of its worst financial crises in history and starting the period of economic prosperity we're currently in.

Good on Trump for not fucking it up yet, I guess. I'm sure he's saving it for his second term like most Republican presidents (that's when the more unsavory aspects of his "massive tax cut" are set to kick in). Of course our national debt is soaring under his watch so it's not like it's all roses.

Does anybody else remember when the Republicans were supposed to be the party of "fiscal responsibility"?

Couldn't have said it better.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: crutonius on February 20, 2020, 02:42:27 PM
Even so, beating Trump is my top priority.  Hell, I'd vote for another republican over Trump.
Don't you like low unemployment and a strong economy?  ???

I have yet to hear anyone state clearly how Trump is responsible for this.  This is clearly the back end of Obama's recovery.  Trump's only contribution to this economy has been a massive tax give away to the rich which they promptly used for a stock buy back.

Let me restate that last point because it's not said nearly enough.  Trump squandered one of the tools we use to deal with financial crisis and put it directly into the pockets of billionaires.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Shane on February 20, 2020, 05:14:59 PM
It's time to accept it, Bernie is winning by a landslide.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 20, 2020, 06:26:31 PM
Even so, beating Trump is my top priority.  Hell, I'd vote for another republican over Trump.
Don't you like low unemployment and a strong economy?  ???

Yes, all praise Barack Obama for getting our country out of one of its worst financial crises in history and starting the period of economic prosperity we're currently in.

Good on Trump for not fucking it up yet, I guess. I'm sure he's saving it for his second term like most Republican presidents (that's when the more unsavory aspects of his "massive tax cut" are set to kick in). Of course our national debt is soaring under his watch so it's not like it's all roses.

Does anybody else remember when the Republicans were supposed to be the party of "fiscal responsibility"?

You're buying that crock that it is Obama that did this for the economy? OMG, you Dems are so stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wly3eAr6Ko
Enjoy some propaganda from the sensible side.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Shane on February 20, 2020, 06:33:02 PM
Hm I was buying it, didn't know Steven Crowder debunked it, thanks for the info!!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 20, 2020, 06:40:10 PM
Even so, beating Trump is my top priority.  Hell, I'd vote for another republican over Trump.
Don't you like low unemployment and a strong economy?  ???

Yes, all praise Barack Obama for getting our country out of one of its worst financial crises in history and starting the period of economic prosperity we're currently in.

Good on Trump for not fucking it up yet, I guess. I'm sure he's saving it for his second term like most Republican presidents (that's when the more unsavory aspects of his "massive tax cut" are set to kick in). Of course our national debt is soaring under his watch so it's not like it's all roses.

Does anybody else remember when the Republicans were supposed to be the party of "fiscal responsibility"?

You're buying that crock that it is Obama that did this for the economy?

I don't have to "buy" anything. I was there when the country was going to shit under Bush, and then wasn't after Obama took over. Why do Conservatives have such short memories?  ???
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 20, 2020, 07:05:23 PM
Even so, beating Trump is my top priority.  Hell, I'd vote for another republican over Trump.
Don't you like low unemployment and a strong economy?  ???

Yes, all praise Barack Obama for getting our country out of one of its worst financial crises in history and starting the period of economic prosperity we're currently in.

Good on Trump for not fucking it up yet, I guess. I'm sure he's saving it for his second term like most Republican presidents (that's when the more unsavory aspects of his "massive tax cut" are set to kick in). Of course our national debt is soaring under his watch so it's not like it's all roses.

Does anybody else remember when the Republicans were supposed to be the party of "fiscal responsibility"?

You're buying that crock that it is Obama that did this for the economy?

I don't have to "buy" anything. I was there when the country was going to shit under Bush, and then wasn't after Obama took over. Why do Conservatives have such short memories?  ???

The banks broke the economy. Not Bush. Obama then presided over the slowest recovery in history. Then Trump made all the American's rich and they all lived happily ever after. It would seem very ungrateful not to vote Trump back in for a second term.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on February 20, 2020, 07:09:16 PM
Hm I was buying it, didn't know Steven Crowder debunked it, thanks for the info!!

Maybe look in to Crowder's sources.  He has a track record of misrepresenting them.  For examples see the back and forth he had with Potholer54.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Shane on February 20, 2020, 07:26:13 PM
Hm I was buying it, didn't know Steven Crowder debunked it, thanks for the info!!

Maybe look in to Crowder's sources.  He has a track record of misrepresenting them.  For examples see the back and forth he had with Potholer54.

I was making a sarcastic remark.

I'm well aware that Crowder is not a reliable source of information
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on February 20, 2020, 07:31:28 PM
Hm I was buying it, didn't know Steven Crowder debunked it, thanks for the info!!

Maybe look in to Crowder's sources.  He has a track record of misrepresenting them.  For examples see the back and forth he had with Potholer54.

I was making a sarcastic remark.

I'm well aware that Crowder is not a reliable source of information

I done Boomer'd myself.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 20, 2020, 07:58:55 PM
Even so, beating Trump is my top priority.  Hell, I'd vote for another republican over Trump.
Don't you like low unemployment and a strong economy?  ???

Yes, all praise Barack Obama for getting our country out of one of its worst financial crises in history and starting the period of economic prosperity we're currently in.

Good on Trump for not fucking it up yet, I guess. I'm sure he's saving it for his second term like most Republican presidents (that's when the more unsavory aspects of his "massive tax cut" are set to kick in). Of course our national debt is soaring under his watch so it's not like it's all roses.

Does anybody else remember when the Republicans were supposed to be the party of "fiscal responsibility"?

You're buying that crock that it is Obama that did this for the economy?

I don't have to "buy" anything. I was there when the country was going to shit under Bush, and then wasn't after Obama took over. Why do Conservatives have such short memories?  ???

The banks broke the economy. Not Bush. Obama then presided over the slowest recovery in history.

Um, hello, the Great Depression?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 20, 2020, 08:27:13 PM
Even so, beating Trump is my top priority.  Hell, I'd vote for another republican over Trump.
Don't you like low unemployment and a strong economy?  ???

Yes, all praise Barack Obama for getting our country out of one of its worst financial crises in history and starting the period of economic prosperity we're currently in.

Good on Trump for not fucking it up yet, I guess. I'm sure he's saving it for his second term like most Republican presidents (that's when the more unsavory aspects of his "massive tax cut" are set to kick in). Of course our national debt is soaring under his watch so it's not like it's all roses.

Does anybody else remember when the Republicans were supposed to be the party of "fiscal responsibility"?

You're buying that crock that it is Obama that did this for the economy?

I don't have to "buy" anything. I was there when the country was going to shit under Bush, and then wasn't after Obama took over. Why do Conservatives have such short memories?  ???

The banks broke the economy. Not Bush. Obama then presided over the slowest recovery in history.

Um, hello, the Great Depression?

That's not a real thing. You might as well be talking about the age of dragons or when America was ruled by the Romans. Anything that far back when they are bartering sheep and settling debts in daughters doesn't count. 'History' as in real things that happened. Not Jack in the Beanstalk type tales of financial terror designed to ensure children don't get out of their beds in case the Federal Reserve grabs them.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 23, 2020, 03:55:20 AM
Looks like Bernie's winning Nevada.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 23, 2020, 08:17:34 AM
Looks like Bernie's winning Nevada.

He is.  We may go into "What if Bernie Won the nomination in 2016" and do the ultimate matchup of angry old white guys.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Tumeni on February 23, 2020, 12:04:20 PM
Then Trump made all the American's rich and they all lived happily ever after.

When did he do this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplemental_Nutrition_Assistance_Program

"SNAP benefits supplied roughly 40 million Americans in 2018, at an expenditure of $57.1 billion.

Approximately 9.2% of American households obtained SNAP benefits at some point during 2017, with approximately 16.7% of all children living in households with SNAP benefits.  Beneficiaries and costs increased sharply with the Great Recession, peaked in 2013 and have declined through 2017 as the economy recovered."

So the economy recovered from 2013 through 2017, Trump was elected in 2016, and this program still is in operation ... ?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 23, 2020, 12:34:55 PM
Then Trump made all the American's rich and they all lived happily ever after.

When did he do this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplemental_Nutrition_Assistance_Program

"SNAP benefits supplied roughly 40 million Americans in 2018, at an expenditure of $57.1 billion.

Approximately 9.2% of American households obtained SNAP benefits at some point during 2017, with approximately 16.7% of all children living in households with SNAP benefits.  Beneficiaries and costs increased sharply with the Great Recession, peaked in 2013 and have declined through 2017 as the economy recovered."

So the economy recovered from 2013 through 2017, Trump was elected in 2016, and this program still is in operation ... ?

Its not something we get rid of.  SNAP is what used to be Food Stamps. 
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 23, 2020, 03:38:38 PM
Is it me or are the moderates just being a bunch of stupid greedy schmucks right now? If they're so scared of a socialist in the White House why do they continue diluting the field against him with their hopeless campaigns? If so much is at stake why hasn't Klobuchar or Warren dropped out and paved the way for a potential Biden win? There's not much time left and no indication any of them plan to quit. It's kind of stunning, all that obstinacy is going to lead to is a socialist president as the best case scenario. ::)

Go Bernie!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 23, 2020, 04:12:07 PM
Is it me or are the moderates just being a bunch of stupid greedy schmucks right now? If they're so scared of a socialist in the White House why do they continue diluting the field against him with their hopeless campaigns? If so much is at stake why hasn't Klobuchar or Warren dropped out and paved the way for a potential Biden win? There's not much time left and no indication any of them plan to quit. It's kind of stunning, all that obstinacy is going to lead to is a socialist president as the best case scenario. ::)

Go Bernie!

When was the last time you saw a selfless politician?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on February 23, 2020, 05:31:37 PM
Looks like Bernie's winning Nevada.

By a landslide?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 23, 2020, 06:08:16 PM
It was by a landslide!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on February 23, 2020, 08:05:23 PM
It was by a landslide!

Beautiful. 
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 23, 2020, 09:04:23 PM
It was by a landslide!

Beautiful.
Somewhere in 2012, Mitt Romney is feeling the Bern.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 25, 2020, 05:13:19 PM
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/484435-chris-matthews-apologizes-to-sanders-for-comparing-victory-to-nazi-invasion

Well, if the Democratic party's leaders and the liberal media don't stop campaigning for Trump by vilifying his biggest competitor before the nomination is even awarded, Trump will probably win again, good job guys, I mean who needs friends with enemies like this.  ::)
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on February 25, 2020, 06:38:56 PM
The Left and cannibalizing itself. Name a more iconic duo.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 26, 2020, 12:41:32 AM
The media is accusing Bernie supporters of being Nazis and accusing Bernie of being a Russian asset. I feel like I've heard this all before, but where? Where have I heard this before?

Also I would criticize them for not at least being creative in their mudslinging, but the messaging works.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 26, 2020, 03:31:08 AM
The media is accusing Bernie supporters of being Nazis and accusing Bernie of being a Russian asset. I feel like I've heard this all before, but where? Where have I heard this before?

Also I would criticize them for not at least being creative in their mudslinging, but the messaging works.

I was one of the first people (well, liberals anyway) to say that the media was hyperbolizing its attacks against Trump. I guess it worked so well with him (snicker) that they're doing it again now with poor Bernie.

Of course in Trump's case the bias was based largely on his already well-documented history of corruption, misogyny, and racism, whereas in Bernie's case it seems to be entirely founded on a general mistrust of socialism.  I therefore don't think that the fact that the media was mostly right about Trump after all should give any credence to their concerns now.  All that's left to determine is if Bernie can convince enough people that "socialism" isn't really a bad word like Trump managed to convince enough people that "evil" wasn't so bad. We can only hope.

Relevant?
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21152538/bernie-sanders-electability-president-moderates-data

Does it seem like they were kind of looking for these results in the first place? The Democratic establishment just seems desperate to discredit Bernie. Smacks of confirmation bias to me.

I think Bernie stands the best chance of holding up to Trump in a debate, something that's barely even touched on in this article. Biden and Warren will be eviscerated. Buttigieg would have to win over a biased key demographic to win... not really impossible necessarily but something that will be difficult (yes, I recognize it's similar to Bernie's situation with socialism, but he already has so much built in support). Bloomberg? I recognize he has his supporters, but he feels like a joke to me (ecch, I think I said pretty much the same thing about Trump four years ago).  Klobuchar should just bow out gracefully at this point. Hell, most of them should. I guess they're still there to leach away delegates. Or maybe they really are just that greedy and self-serving.

None of the candidates are perfect. They all have their liabilities. On measure I stand by Bernie.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 26, 2020, 03:44:41 AM
it seems to be entirely founded on a general mistrust of socialism.

Probably something to do with socialism's 100% record in regards to turning prosperous nations into burgeoning shitholes. Furthermore, Bernie isn't socialist, unless I'm misreading his policies rather severely.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 26, 2020, 04:06:37 AM
it seems to be entirely founded on a general mistrust of socialism.

Probably something to do with socialism's 100% record in regards to turning prosperous nations into burgeoning shitholes. Furthermore, Bernie isn't socialist, unless I'm misreading his policies rather severely.

Maybe not. Whether or not he's technically a socialist makes no difference to me (actually it's surely better for him if he really isn't). I just like some of his ideas. Some are maybe a little extreme, but I don't think there's any danger we will become a socialist country. I just think the idea of sharing the wealth a bit is sound.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 26, 2020, 04:14:14 AM
it seems to be entirely founded on a general mistrust of socialism.

Probably something to do with socialism's 100% record in regards to turning prosperous nations into burgeoning shitholes. Furthermore, Bernie isn't socialist, unless I'm misreading his policies rather severely.

Maybe not. Whether or not he's technically a socialist makes no difference to me (actually it's surely better for him if he really isn't). I just like some of his ideas. Some are maybe a little extreme, but I don't think there's any danger we will become a socialist country. I just think the idea of sharing the wealth a bit is sound.

We already spend more on welfare and healthcare per capita than any other Western nation. Our incredibly inefficient and overly large government is to blame for our ails, not the lack of money or "spreading the wealth". Bernie is proposing we hand over even more money to a government already proven to be completely irresponsible in handling money. The idea that our woes are caused because we're not handing over enough money to the government is blatantly untrue. All Bernie will be doing is exacerbating a problem already choking the nation. If Bernie wants to emulate European nations I suggest he start by trying to acquire more Europeans, because regardless of who has been president and who has been in Congress our country has been top down moronic when it comes to finances.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on February 26, 2020, 05:08:34 AM
Bernie is the biggest meme candidate of all time. A self-proclaimed dEmOcRaTiC socialist who owns millions of dollars of private property, whose voters want him to bring down Amazon while they simultaneously fund it by buying their meme items. I've never been to a circus, but I imagine this is what it's like.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 26, 2020, 06:03:41 AM
it seems to be entirely founded on a general mistrust of socialism.

Probably something to do with socialism's 100% record in regards to turning prosperous nations into burgeoning shitholes. Furthermore, Bernie isn't socialist, unless I'm misreading his policies rather severely.

Maybe not. Whether or not he's technically a socialist makes no difference to me (actually it's surely better for him if he really isn't). I just like some of his ideas. Some are maybe a little extreme, but I don't think there's any danger we will become a socialist country. I just think the idea of sharing the wealth a bit is sound.

We already spend more on welfare and healthcare per capita than any other Western nation. Our incredibly inefficient and overly large government is to blame for our ails, not the lack of money or "spreading the wealth". Bernie is proposing we hand over even more money to a government already proven to be completely irresponsible in handling money. The idea that our woes are caused because we're not handing over enough money to the government is blatantly untrue. All Bernie will be doing is exacerbating a problem already choking the nation. If Bernie wants to emulate European nations I suggest he start by trying to acquire more Europeans, because regardless of who has been president and who has been in Congress our country has been top down moronic when it comes to finances.

But why do we spend so much?  Why does a normal vaginal birth with no complications cost $10,000? 
I think the issue stems from high cost of drugs and high cost of medical school/education.
Think about it: if you have 200k in debt when you become a professional and you have 10 years to pay that off, you need to make a ton of money a year just to meet monthly payments and live on your own.  Which is why doctors make over 200k a year.

The second is drugs.  It costs millions to develop them so to recover costs from successes and failures, the drugs need to be pricy.

Finally: America is a very sue happy nation.  Americans have it drilled into their collective cultural mind that pain = money in some way.  Mostly by bad lawyers, I suspect.  So malpractice insurance is expensive as hell.  Most oay between 4-12k a year, averaging around 7k.  Surgeons pay 30-50k.  So yeah.

I believe the solution is a 3 pronged approach.  First, grants for drug research.  We probably already do this so expand it with benefits for cheaper costs to the government.  Also drug price negotiations for basic stuff like saline packs and isulin.  Maybe bulk buying for national distribution.

Second, educational loan forgiveness.  A doctor who agrees to work for 10 years on a residency salary for public care (so medicare, medicaide, whatever...) Will have their loan forgiven without having any payments or interest.  If they move to private, they need to pay whatever balance is left based on how long they worked publically.

Third, malpractice: government paid but can be dropped if you pile up too many claims. (Ie. You are not a good doctor)
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 26, 2020, 09:32:55 AM
But why do we spend so much?  Why does a normal vaginal birth with no complications cost $10,000?
Insurance. If a doctor makes a mistake, the mother or child could die, or the child could have life changing injuries.

You're not this ignorant are you, Dave? I mean, is this how Bernie gets so many Bros? Just people without any ability to put a few simple pieces together who then get mad about things they don't understand?


And your solution? Put the taxpayer on the hook for payouts instead of the PRIVATE hospitals that make the money. No liability for them. No responsibility. ... Mmmm, is this going to improve patient outcomes?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 26, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
But why do we spend so much?  Why does a normal vaginal birth with no complications cost $10,000?
Insurance. If a doctor makes a mistake, the mother or child could die, or the child could have life changing injuries.

You're not this ignorant are you, Dave? I mean, is this how Bernie gets so many Bros? Just people without any ability to put a few simple pieces together who then get mad about things they don't understand?


And your solution? Put the taxpayer on the hook for payouts instead of the PRIVATE hospitals that make the money. No liability for them. No responsibility. ... Mmmm, is this going to improve patient outcomes?

Ok, first off.
Malpractice insurance is a thing doctors and hospitals pay.  It is not paid for by the patient though its probably factored into the cost, its not going to be enough to justify the cost.

Secondly, do you know what happens to people who get a mistake made in the US?  Their insurance still has to pay for fixing it (or them out of pocket) until they sue for the money back.

So no, insurance is not the reason.  Try again.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 26, 2020, 02:23:28 PM
it seems to be entirely founded on a general mistrust of socialism.

Probably something to do with socialism's 100% record in regards to turning prosperous nations into burgeoning shitholes. Furthermore, Bernie isn't socialist, unless I'm misreading his policies rather severely.

Maybe not. Whether or not he's technically a socialist makes no difference to me (actually it's surely better for him if he really isn't). I just like some of his ideas. Some are maybe a little extreme, but I don't think there's any danger we will become a socialist country. I just think the idea of sharing the wealth a bit is sound.

We already spend more on welfare and healthcare per capita than any other Western nation. Our incredibly inefficient and overly large government is to blame for our ails, not the lack of money or "spreading the wealth". Bernie is proposing we hand over even more money to a government already proven to be completely irresponsible in handling money. The idea that our woes are caused because we're not handing over enough money to the government is blatantly untrue. All Bernie will be doing is exacerbating a problem already choking the nation. If Bernie wants to emulate European nations I suggest he start by trying to acquire more Europeans, because regardless of who has been president and who has been in Congress our country has been top down moronic when it comes to finances.

No doubt, look at what Trump's policies are doing to our deficit right now. It doesn't change the fact that millions of people in this country don't have basic access to reasonable healthcare. Until we at least catch up to the rest of the civilized world in that regard it is a problem in my opinion. Bernie seems most invested in making that happen.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on February 26, 2020, 02:49:02 PM
Bernie is the biggest meme candidate of all time. A self-proclaimed dEmOcRaTiC socialist who owns millions of dollars of private property, whose voters want him to bring down Amazon while they simultaneously fund it by buying their meme items. I've never been to a circus, but I imagine this is what it's like.

Nothing about Bernie's positions precludes him from having a net worth. He isn't calling for the abolition of private property. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make here. If anything, his net worth is too low for someone still working past average retirement age. The basic example is if you want to retire at 65 on 100K/yr then you should have 2.5MM in investment income available the day you retire.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Shane on February 26, 2020, 11:53:59 PM
He has a house in DC, a house in Vermont, and a vacation home he bought after selling a vacation property he inherited. Wow what a hypocrite
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 27, 2020, 07:42:07 AM
He has a house in DC, a house in Vermont, and a vacation home he bought after selling a vacation property he inherited. Wow what a hypocrite

I know, right?  I mean, who does he think he is, living in the two areas he has to work at?  And a vacation home?  OMG!  He needs to timeshare like my aunt sally!

(That was sarcastic fyi)
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 28, 2020, 04:21:59 PM
I don't understand why people keep running with this. Do people really think that a net worth of 2 million as a senior citizen makes someone super wealthy? ???

Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 28, 2020, 05:08:54 PM
Do people really think that a net worth of 2 million as a senior citizen makes someone super wealthy? ???
Well, he's in the top 10% of senior citizens in the USA. Without splitting hairs over what you call "super wealthy", he's wealthier than 90% of people of his age group, and just short of 95% of all Americans.

Keep in mind that while his net worth doesn't look too extremely impressive compared to the ~$1M average for his age bracket, the median of $250,000 tells a different story.

Note that this doesn't mean that someone of his position shouldn't be wealthy - it's just a bit silly to have your main defence be "huh $2m is no big deal, how is that even rich?"
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 28, 2020, 05:51:35 PM
They should probably be attacking bloomberg instead.  Bernie is small potatoes.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 28, 2020, 08:23:44 PM
Do people really think that a net worth of 2 million as a senior citizen makes someone super wealthy? ???
Well, he's in the top 10% of senior citizens in the USA. Without splitting hairs over what you call "super wealthy", he's wealthier than 90% of people of his age group, and just short of 95% of all Americans.

Keep in mind that while his net worth doesn't look too extremely impressive compared to the ~$1M average for his age bracket, the median of $250,000 tells a different story.

Note that this doesn't mean that someone of his position shouldn't be wealthy - it's just a bit silly to have your main defence be "huh $2m is no big deal, how is that even rich?"

I mean, like junker said, it's not even enough to really retire comfortably, so if that's top 10 percent I feel like it speaks more to how many senior citizens in this country are poor rather than anything about his own level of wealth.

It's not quite up to the level that most people in this country consider rich; admittedly it's not far off, but it doesn't reach the threshold.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 28, 2020, 08:28:20 PM
I mean, like junker said, it's not even enough to really retire comfortably, so if that's top 10 percent I feel like it speaks more to how many senior citizens in this country are poor rather than anything about his own level of wealth.

It's not quite up to the level that most people in this country consider rich; admittedly it's not far off, but it doesn't reach the threshold.
I don't necessarily disagree - it would be nice if people were richer, and not poorer. But equally, I think it's silly to pretend that the top 5% of all Americans is not particularly wealthy. Perhaps the American viewpoint on the matter is different, but given how many Americans keep saying Bernie is wealthy, I'm not immediately convinced that your view is as ubiquitous as you're painting it.

That said, a $100k/year retirement is much more than just "comfortable". That's more than most people will ever hope to earn. I wouldn't take junker's figures at face value.

They should probably be attacking bloomberg instead.  Bernie is small potatoes.
Well, for sure. That's exactly what Bernie wants you to do, too. He keeps asking how much luxury properties billionnaires need, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't need 3 homes.

From where I'm standing, the joke here is that Bernie is rich while also saying "rich people bad". I disagree with it as a serious position - again, a senior lifelong politician should be fairly well off, I reckon that's only fair, especially when the man has raked in well over a million on books in the last 3 years alone - but I do at least partially understand where these people are coming from. He's not exactly the embodiment of the proletariat that he's trying to promote himself as.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 28, 2020, 09:28:44 PM
He's a man who started out as poor and used politics to put himself in a position where he could live a comfortable life. Sounds pretty socialist to me.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 28, 2020, 09:58:12 PM
He's a man who started out as poor and used politics to put himself in a position where he could live a comfortable life. Sounds pretty socialist to me.
That's fine. I'm only criticising you for your "not rich" position, which continues to be pretty silly.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 28, 2020, 10:33:48 PM
I don't understand why people keep running with this. Do people really think that a net worth of 2 million as a senior citizen makes someone super wealthy? ???

Roundy, the man has three different houses. How many people do you know who just casually own multiple houses? How many senior citizens do you know that have net worths in the millions? Your family? Friends? I can't think of any that I know. It's not very common. It's not like the man's policies suddenly change based on how rich he is. There's no point in arguing that he isn't rich when he obviously is.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on February 28, 2020, 10:46:17 PM
I don't understand why people keep running with this. Do people really think that a net worth of 2 million as a senior citizen makes someone super wealthy? ???

Roundy, the man has three different houses. How many people do you know who just casually own multiple houses?

You don't know multiple people with a vacation home? I mean, I think that's more or less what you're saying (?) but I find it hard to believe.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 28, 2020, 10:47:50 PM
I don't understand why people keep running with this. Do people really think that a net worth of 2 million as a senior citizen makes someone super wealthy? ???

Roundy, the man has three different houses. How many people do you know who just casually own multiple houses?

You don't know multiple people with a vacation home? I mean, I think that's more or less what you're saying (?) but I find it hard to believe.

No? Most people I know can barely afford to go on vacation at all, much less own a house solely for the purpose of vacationing in it. Most people in America cannot afford to own a single home, Roundy, and yet you think having a vacation home is so common that people all over the place do it? Sounds incredibly disconnected from reality to me.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 28, 2020, 10:50:50 PM
Roundy has previously hinted at being out of touch with normal earners, but holy shit.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 28, 2020, 11:09:19 PM
Why are you people arguing over houses?
1. He works in DC and, by law, must have a residence in the state he represents, ie. Vermont.  So having two homes is almost a requirement for a senator.  Unless he represents a state close to DC.  Vermont is not close to DC.

2. The man makes $174,000/year as a senator.  Most people do not make anywhere near that so owning a home is harder, much less two or three.

3. He has lived in Vermont since 1968.  If he bought a house then, he'd have paid it off(30 year mortgage) by the time he was elected into the us house.  So buying a second home, not an issue.  And a vacation home, on a us congressman salary?  Not a big deal.

4. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8025835/amp/Take-peak-best-known-millionaire-socialist-Bernie-Sanders-three-homes.html

His homes.  A main home he's owned probably since before being mayor of the town he lives in.  Or maybe at the same time, dunno.
His second home is a one bedroom apartment in DC.  Where he works.  So not a house.
His third is a small lake side cabin costing about $567,000.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 28, 2020, 11:12:39 PM
Dave, when you cite sources, typically it's considered a courtesy not to cite sources behind a paywall. You're asking your audience to purchase something in the hopes it is relevant to your point (it isn't).

Buying a single $567,000 cabin means you're rich. Congratulations, you have proved that Bernie is rich. I have no idea why this was even being discussed, as it isn't relevant to his policies. The man is wealthy. It's not a big deal. Please stop pretending that he isn't.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 28, 2020, 11:21:57 PM
Dave, the man is in the top 5% net-worth-wise. The question isn't whether this is a big deal or not (it isn't), but stop pretending that the top 5% is average. It quite simply is not. Stop hurting your own cause and focus on simple facts.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 29, 2020, 06:07:31 AM
Dave, when you cite sources, typically it's considered a courtesy not to cite sources behind a paywall. You're asking your audience to purchase something in the hopes it is relevant to your point (it isn't).
Paywall?  Which one?  I ask because I have no payments to anything.  Found em on a simple google search and it let me in without issue.

Quote
Buying a single $567,000 cabin means you're rich. Congratulations, you have proved that Bernie is rich. I have no idea why this was even being discussed, as it isn't relevant to his policies. The man is wealthy. It's not a big deal. Please stop pretending that he isn't.

He's rich like a doctor, lawyer, or congressman.  Which I consider like lower level rich or normal for his job.
But the way y'all are arguing it makes it sound like he's Trump rich, owning 5,000 sq. Ft. Houses in lavish locations.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 29, 2020, 09:21:49 AM
But the way y'all are arguing it makes it sound like he's Trump rich, owning 5,000 sq. Ft. Houses in lavish locations.
Are we? All we've pointed out is that it's silly to pretend that someone richer than 95% of your society is not well off. This in no way implies that richer people don't exist.

We even pointed out that this is not a big deal. It's not important, it's not relevant to his policies. Why are you so dedicated to fighting this?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 29, 2020, 09:41:34 AM
But the way y'all are arguing it makes it sound like he's Trump rich, owning 5,000 sq. Ft. Houses in lavish locations.
Are we? All we've pointed out is that it's silly to pretend that someone richer than 95% of your society is not well off. This in no way implies that richer people don't exist.

We even pointed out that this is not a big deal. It's not important, it's not relevant to his policies. Why are you so dedicated to fighting this?
I'm not.  I agree with everything you said.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on February 29, 2020, 05:39:21 PM
Paywall?  Which one?  I ask because I have no payments to anything.  Found em on a simple google search and it let me in without issue.

The one where the website says 'you must make an account and pay us for this premium statistic', Dave. If it's so easy for you to view, then I suggest you screenshot it.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on February 29, 2020, 06:04:52 PM
Paywall?  Which one?  I ask because I have no payments to anything.  Found em on a simple google search and it let me in without issue.

The one where the website says 'you must make an account and pay us for this premium statistic', Dave. If it's so easy for you to view, then I suggest you screenshot it.

And now it gives me the paywall.
Fucking hell.  I'll delete the link.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Shane on February 29, 2020, 10:41:34 PM
Went to a rally in the Boston Common, over 13k people in attendance, looking like he's gonna beat Warren in her home state.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 02, 2020, 11:50:03 AM
I don't understand why people keep running with this. Do people really think that a net worth of 2 million as a senior citizen makes someone super wealthy? ???

Roundy, the man has three different houses. How many people do you know who just casually own multiple houses?

You don't know multiple people with a vacation home? I mean, I think that's more or less what you're saying (?) but I find it hard to believe.
No roundy, I do not know multiple people with a vacation home...

I did hear of members of the Politburo having their favorite dachas though...much like Sanders...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 02, 2020, 11:54:14 AM
But the way y'all are arguing it makes it sound like he's Trump rich, owning 5,000 sq. Ft. Houses in lavish locations.
Are we? All we've pointed out is that it's silly to pretend that someone richer than 95% of your society is not well off. This in no way implies that richer people don't exist.

We even pointed out that this is not a big deal. It's not important, it's not relevant to his policies. Why are you so dedicated to fighting this?
It is a big deal and it is important to his policies.

It clearly demonstrates he is the biggest freaking hypocrite the world has seen in some time.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 02, 2020, 12:47:19 PM
But the way y'all are arguing it makes it sound like he's Trump rich, owning 5,000 sq. Ft. Houses in lavish locations.
Are we? All we've pointed out is that it's silly to pretend that someone richer than 95% of your society is not well off. This in no way implies that richer people don't exist.

We even pointed out that this is not a big deal. It's not important, it's not relevant to his policies. Why are you so dedicated to fighting this?
It is a big deal and it is important to his policies.

It clearly demonstrates he is the biggest freaking hypocrite the world has seen in some time.

How so?
Did he claim people should not be allowed to be rich?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 02, 2020, 01:09:47 PM
But the way y'all are arguing it makes it sound like he's Trump rich, owning 5,000 sq. Ft. Houses in lavish locations.
Are we? All we've pointed out is that it's silly to pretend that someone richer than 95% of your society is not well off. This in no way implies that richer people don't exist.

We even pointed out that this is not a big deal. It's not important, it's not relevant to his policies. Why are you so dedicated to fighting this?
It is a big deal and it is important to his policies.

It clearly demonstrates he is the biggest freaking hypocrite the world has seen in some time.

How so?
Did he claim people should not be allowed to be rich?
His policies will do nothing to help people maintain their current personal wealth, nor will they allow for further wealth to be created.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 02, 2020, 02:07:04 PM
But the way y'all are arguing it makes it sound like he's Trump rich, owning 5,000 sq. Ft. Houses in lavish locations.
Are we? All we've pointed out is that it's silly to pretend that someone richer than 95% of your society is not well off. This in no way implies that richer people don't exist.

We even pointed out that this is not a big deal. It's not important, it's not relevant to his policies. Why are you so dedicated to fighting this?
It is a big deal and it is important to his policies.

It clearly demonstrates he is the biggest freaking hypocrite the world has seen in some time.

How so?
Did he claim people should not be allowed to be rich?
His policies will do nothing to help people maintain their current personal wealth, nor will they allow for further wealth to be created.

Wow.  Thats an amazing leap of logic.

Please, I must know how you came to that conclusion.  Be as detailed as possible.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on March 02, 2020, 04:30:47 PM
Can we not do giant blocks of text quoting in this thread...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 02, 2020, 04:36:43 PM
But the way y'all are arguing it makes it sound like he's Trump rich, owning 5,000 sq. Ft. Houses in lavish locations.
Are we? All we've pointed out is that it's silly to pretend that someone richer than 95% of your society is not well off. This in no way implies that richer people don't exist.

We even pointed out that this is not a big deal. It's not important, it's not relevant to his policies. Why are you so dedicated to fighting this?
It is a big deal and it is important to his policies.

It clearly demonstrates he is the biggest freaking hypocrite the world has seen in some time.

How so?
Did he claim people should not be allowed to be rich?
His policies will do nothing to help people maintain their current personal wealth, nor will they allow for further wealth to be created.

Wow.  Thats an amazing leap of logic.

Please, I must know how you came to that conclusion.  Be as detailed as possible.
Okay.

Answer this question honestly.

What is the incentive for me to work harder for less of a percentage of the reward for the work?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on March 02, 2020, 04:49:20 PM
Can we not do giant blocks of text quoting in this thread...

I'll ask nicely one more time...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 02, 2020, 04:54:43 PM
Okay.

Answer this question honestly.

What is the incentive for me to work harder for less of a percentage of the reward for the work?
???
So when I ask for how you concluded that Bernie's policies would stop future wealth creation, you ask me why you'd want to work harder for less?

Ok, To answer your question answer me this: do you like to eat?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Snupes on March 03, 2020, 01:13:54 AM
What is the incentive for me to work harder for less of a percentage of the reward for the work?

Because you can still be rich...?

What incentive do I have to work harder if it means I can only make $8,000,000 a year instead of $11,000,000? I'd rather just work at McDonald's!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on March 03, 2020, 01:32:20 AM
Socialists have been known to tax beyond rates of 90%.

And so this gives multi-millionaire entrepreneurs a dilemma. Is it worth going to work, creating businesses, or would they be better off retired or doing business in another country?

You can't tax the super rich. Its called capital flight. They'll leave and take their money with them. this stops 'future wealth creation' because no one is investing. Why would anyone invest in a place that taxes you into the floor when you can get a better return elsewhere?

I can't believe adults actually think socialism is a good idea. I guess there are some staggeringly stupid people out there.


@Junker ... I have had to adblock your obnoxious signature.  >:(
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on March 03, 2020, 02:53:42 AM
https://www.electionbettingodds.com/

Bernie is losing to a pony faced soldier dog at 46% to 40.5%.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on March 03, 2020, 03:07:57 AM
Socialists have been known to tax beyond rates of 90%.
The US has had top tax brackets of 90% in the past, and the actual, effective tax rate is never actually anywhere near that for anyone and there wasn't a mass exodus of companies from the US.

And so this gives multi-millionaire entrepreneurs a dilemma. Is it worth going to work, creating businesses, or would they be better off retired or doing business in another country?
The answer to this nonsensical rhetoric is the same as it always has been, yes it is worth it to keep creating businesses...

You can't tax the super rich. Its called capital flight. They'll leave and take their money with them. this stops 'future wealth creation' because no one is investing. Why would anyone invest in a place that taxes you into the floor when you can get a better return elsewhere?
Excellent, just tax any capital leaving the US at 98% and if the super wealthy want to go pull themselves up by the bootstraps all over again in some other country they are free to do so. Of course that wouldn't matter either since tax shelters are a thing which is why no company would consider moving.

I can't believe adults actually think socialism is a good idea. I guess there are some staggeringly stupid people out there.
Literally no one is talking about socialism right now and you don't understand the most basic definition of it.

@Junker ... I have had to adblock your obnoxious signature.  >:(
You are lucky you aren't American otherwise I would be bullying you into voting for Bernie. And you would do it.


The only person to even have some reasonable opposition to Bernard's platform has been Rushy. The rest of you should feel bad for allowing that to be the case.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 03, 2020, 06:57:26 AM
Bernie certainly is the regular working man's candidate. Cannot even tell which private plane is his...needs to make an attempt to board all of them just to have someone tell him which one is actually his...LOL!!!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 03, 2020, 07:00:50 AM
Yeah, I want to eat. The best way for that to happen according to Bernie is government cheese and peanut butter...mind you, it has been a while since I qualified, but if I just shut up and trust in Bernie, I can be assured that will surely be awaiting...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on March 03, 2020, 09:28:30 AM
Literally no one is talking about socialism right now and you don't understand the most basic definition of it.
This is a thread about Bernie 2020. It is only about socialism. The pepper-faced dictator doesn't talk about anything else.

You are lucky you aren't American otherwise I would be bullying you into voting for Bernie. And you would do it.
If I were American, I would be wearing my MAGA hat, listening to Brad Paisley, watching NASCAR, mining crypto and enjoying a fresh squirrel sandwich. I'd have a large arsenal of guns, wear a checked shirt, own a truck with truck nuts and do line dancing on a Tuesday night. I might even send amorous glaces in my sister's direction and have a personal vendetta against tumbleweed.

I would not be on the latte slurping, purple haired, put a penis in me, safe space needing, iphone poking, tumbler frequenting, DeGeneres loving, not my President side of the country.

The only person to even have some reasonable opposition to Bernard's platform has been Rushy. The rest of you should feel bad for allowing that to be the case.
He's probably taking Sander's campaign too seriously. Trump will walk 2020. Its not even worth refuting.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 03, 2020, 11:34:21 AM
Bernie certainly is the regular working man's candidate. Cannot even tell which private plane is his...needs to make an attempt to board all of them just to have someone tell him which one is actually his...LOL!!!
As opposed to Trump who custom paints all his private jets.

Yeah, I want to eat. The best way for that to happen according to Bernie is government cheese and peanut butter...mind you, it has been a while since I qualified, but if I just shut up and trust in Bernie, I can be assured that will surely be awaiting...

So you have no argument, have no idea what Bernie's platform is, and your entire line of reasoning is 'Bernie bad.  Trump Good.'

Thanks for, once again, showing us how foolish it is to Support Trump.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 03, 2020, 11:49:47 AM
Bernie certainly is the regular working man's candidate. Cannot even tell which private plane is his...needs to make an attempt to board all of them just to have someone tell him which one is actually his...LOL!!!
As opposed to Trump who custom paints all his private jets.
Is this thread about Trump?

I thought it was about Sanders?
Yeah, I want to eat. The best way for that to happen according to Bernie is government cheese and peanut butter...mind you, it has been a while since I qualified, but if I just shut up and trust in Bernie, I can be assured that will surely be awaiting...
So you have no argument, have no idea what Bernie's platform is, and your entire line of reasoning is 'Bernie bad.  Trump Good.'

Thanks for, once again, showing us how foolish it is to Support Trump.
The argument you seem to have = "LOOK!!! OVER THERE!!! ORANGE MAN BAD!!!"

I wrote strictly about the OP candidate, Bernie Sanders, and you try to derail?

Isn't there a Trump thread already?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 03, 2020, 11:57:09 AM
Do you have an argument against Bernie's platform that has reasoning?  Evidence?  Logical thought?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 03, 2020, 12:51:44 PM
Do you have an argument against Bernie's platform that has reasoning?  Evidence?  Logical thought?
Yeah.

Bread lines are not a good sign of economic wealth for any country...but according to Bernie, they are.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on March 03, 2020, 01:44:50 PM
Do you have an argument against Bernie's platform that has reasoning?  Evidence?  Logical thought?
Yeah.

Bread lines are not a good sign of economic wealth for any country...but according to Bernie, they are.
I probably should know better than to get involved but I suspect you're straw-manning the shit out of him here.
He said that, did he?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 03, 2020, 02:02:02 PM
Do you have an argument against Bernie's platform that has reasoning?  Evidence?  Logical thought?
Yeah.

Bread lines are not a good sign of economic wealth for any country...but according to Bernie, they are.
Citation needed.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 03, 2020, 04:06:53 PM
Do you have an argument against Bernie's platform that has reasoning?  Evidence?  Logical thought?
Yeah.

Bread lines are not a good sign of economic wealth for any country...but according to Bernie, they are.
I probably should know better than to get involved but I suspect you're straw-manning the shit out of him here.
He said that, did he?
Of course he said it.

Bernie loves bread lines!
Do you have an argument against Bernie's platform that has reasoning?  Evidence?  Logical thought?
Yeah.

Bread lines are not a good sign of economic wealth for any country...but according to Bernie, they are.
Citation needed.
Look up Sanders loves bread lines.

"When asked about breadlines in Nicaragua and Sanders’ support for Sandinistas, the senator quipped: “It’s funny, sometimes American journalists talk about how bad a country is, that people are lining up for food. That is a good thing! In other countries people don’t line up for food: the rich get the food and the poor starve to death.”
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Tom Bishop on March 03, 2020, 05:09:40 PM
That sounds like something Stalin would say.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on March 03, 2020, 05:24:43 PM
He's probably taking Sander's campaign too seriously. Trump will walk 2020. Its not even worth refuting.

Rushy definitely does not take Bernard seriously and agrees with your Trump opinion. I think I also agree at this point. I hope sleepy Joe has enough amphetamines in his system to give a lucid speech tonight while hopefully remembering what state he happens to be in. I also hope he calls someone the equivalent of a 'lying dog-faced pony soldier' again.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 03, 2020, 05:35:58 PM
Do you have an argument against Bernie's platform that has reasoning?  Evidence?  Logical thought?
Yeah.

Bread lines are not a good sign of economic wealth for any country...but according to Bernie, they are.
I probably should know better than to get involved but I suspect you're straw-manning the shit out of him here.
He said that, did he?
Of course he said it.

Bernie loves bread lines!
Do you have an argument against Bernie's platform that has reasoning?  Evidence?  Logical thought?
Yeah.

Bread lines are not a good sign of economic wealth for any country...but according to Bernie, they are.
Citation needed.
Look up Sanders loves bread lines.

"When asked about breadlines in Nicaragua and Sanders’ support for Sandinistas, the senator quipped: “It’s funny, sometimes American journalists talk about how bad a country is, that people are lining up for food. That is a good thing! In other countries people don’t line up for food: the rich get the food and the poor starve to death.”

OMG!  I can't believe Sanders thinks people having free food is a good thing?!  How can anyone support a person who believes that bread lines are better than starvation of the poor?

You've convinced me.  Bernie only wants everyone to eat bread they get for free in a line. 
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: garygreen on March 03, 2020, 05:47:20 PM
the actual quote is:

“One aspect, what is going on in Nicaragua and again, what has to be understood is the economic problems of Nicaragua are not unique in Central America or in the Third World, in fact as poor as Nicaragua is, one of the nice things that I saw is that as result of government policy, direct government policy in terms of the distribution of food people are not hungry by in by and large. I think it’s fair to say. You know, it’s funny, sometimes American journalists talk about how bad a country is, that people are lining up for food. That is a good thing! In other countries people don’t line up for food: the rich get the food and the poor starve to death. In Nicaragua people are not starving to death.”

not that this will change the mind of anyone who unironically believes that bernie sanders wants people to go hungry.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on March 03, 2020, 07:04:23 PM
Bernie is about to get Hillary’d. Again.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 03, 2020, 07:10:37 PM
Bernie is about to get Hillary’d. Again.

No doubt.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on March 03, 2020, 07:54:31 PM
The 2016 election was a huge boon to Bernie and his family financially. He went from one of the poorest senators to having an average wealth among them. The man is retirement aged and probably just wants to a secure a nice life for himself and his family financially. A year of campaigning adding a few million dollars to his coffers is a great deal and one that he'd be dumb to pass up. He'll attend the DNC, endorse whoever wins and then promptly go home.

Also one more thing: no refunds.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 04, 2020, 11:34:58 AM
OMG!  I can't believe Sanders thinks people having free food is a good thing?!  How can anyone support a person who believes that bread lines are better than starvation of the poor?

You've convinced me.  Bernie only wants everyone to eat bread they get for free in a line.
At least the guy could have the decency to ship it to the tent of the poor soul that needs it...

Maybe we will all get lucky and he will arrange for daily helicopter drops of food at select locations across the country...
the actual quote is:

“One aspect, what is going on in Nicaragua and again, what has to be understood is the economic problems of Nicaragua are not unique in Central America or in the Third World, in fact as poor as Nicaragua is, one of the nice things that I saw is that as result of government policy, direct government policy in terms of the distribution of food people are not hungry by in by and large. I think it’s fair to say. You know, it’s funny, sometimes American journalists talk about how bad a country is, that people are lining up for food. That is a good thing! In other countries people don’t line up for food: the rich get the food and the poor starve to death. In Nicaragua people are not starving to death.”

not that this will change the mind of anyone who unironically believes that bernie sanders wants people to go hungry.
Yeah, the actual quote really helps bernie alot!!! [/sarcasm]
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 04, 2020, 12:03:12 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/many-young-voters-sat-out-super-tuesday-contributing-to-bernie-sanders-losses/ar-BB10IrLz?li=BBnb7Kz (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/many-young-voters-sat-out-super-tuesday-contributing-to-bernie-sanders-losses/ar-BB10IrLz?li=BBnb7Kz)

Bernie should've set up a free bread line at the voting booths just to show his sincerity about free shit!!!

"Exit polls for five southern states that Biden won – Alabama, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia – found that young voters did not show up at the polls in the numbers they did in 2016."

This is what you get for seeking out the votes of dumb financial illiterates...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: CJO on March 04, 2020, 12:11:56 PM
The one piece of the pie u all seem 2 miss is that we have people standing in line for free food in America and by the way the food in Bernie's bread line is not ( look at Cuba) it's just cheaper and not very plentiful.  The free food people get in America is because we have an abundance of food and there is enough to give it 2 those that don't have the money to go to a store filled with food and buy it there.   The people in Bernie's bread line can't get food anywhere but the bread line.  One more thing. 
Question.  What was Lincoln's political party.   What political party started reconstruction (look up what reconstruction was supposed 2 do to redistribute land and wealth to former slaves) in the south after the civil war.  What political party shut it down after they regained control.  Bribed rich in the south to buy there own land back by paying penalties to the Democratic government. Basically throwing away the gains and starting slavery all over again in the form chain gangs. And denying civil equality. 
Answer.  Republican.  Republicans.   Democrats. 
Look it up it's history.  Dems promise equality and rescue from evil Republicans.  Why do dems think anyone that doesn't agree is racist and evil.  I say this to those Dems.  Skunk smells his own hole first.  Meaning maybe the one that is saying others are racist and evil is really the one who is. 
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Pete Svarrior on March 04, 2020, 01:32:04 PM
Question.  [democrats bad republicans good checkmate atheists]
Yes, before the parties switched sides, Republicans did a lot of stuff commonly associated with modern Democrats, and vice-versa. This is not particularly significant at this point in time.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/8a43tp/myth_or_fact_did_the_us_political_parties_switch/
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on March 04, 2020, 04:12:43 PM
Should I change my signature to a high quality Libertarian signature now, or wait until after the contested convention?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on March 04, 2020, 05:15:11 PM
Should I change my signature to a high quality Libertarian signature now, or wait until after the contested convention?

But it already is a libertarian signature, so I'm confused.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 04, 2020, 05:23:53 PM
Should I change my signature to a high quality Libertarian signature now, or wait until after the contested convention?

Just delete it.  You're giving us all false hope.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on March 06, 2020, 06:13:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CpA0zZp.jpg)
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on March 07, 2020, 03:12:12 AM
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/new-york-times-finds-scandal-in-bernie-sanders-cooperation-with-ronald-reagans-soviet-peace-plan.html

It's a shame what they're doing to poor Bernie. :( 

The Democratic establishment will be choosing their candidate for us once again, using tactics more in line with the Soviets of the 1940s than what we normally recognize as democracy, which is ironic given their line of attack; and very possibly helping Mistah Trump win his next term in the process.

Such buffoonery is almost enough to make you want to switch sides...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: crutonius on March 07, 2020, 02:32:13 PM
Well the establish knows what's best.  They've decided the best shot at beating Trump is to run this fucking guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3G52Bjirho

So yeah, we're definitely getting 4 more years of Trump.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on March 07, 2020, 02:39:05 PM
He's going to look like a lost child in his debates against Trump. It's not going to be pretty.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: crutonius on March 07, 2020, 03:08:41 PM
If I were Biden running against Trump then I would just skip the debates.  They're certain to do more harm than good.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on March 07, 2020, 04:02:53 PM
More on the New York Times' disgusting attempt to discredit Bernie.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-innocuous-story-of-bernie-sanderss-trip-to-russia

Quote
This is politics as politics ought to be: people engaged in learning about one another, with the express purpose of forging better ways of living on the planet. For the Times to frame those efforts as propaganda is, arguably, to engage in propaganda, and to devalue the human essence of politics.

Indeed. Isn't it wonderful that the mainstream media keeps giving legitimacy to Trump and his followers' charges of bias and unfairness? We still technically have a free press, given that this and the preceding article I linked on the issue were allowed to be published without censor. But the NYT have, in my opinion, unequivocably distinguished themselves as part of the Democratic establishment propaganda machine, no more trustworthy a source of news than Fox at its most partisan. No wonder so many people distrust the media, and now a whole new segment of the population is being alienated by it, a situation that can only make things worse.

Nice job, New York Times!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on March 07, 2020, 04:15:27 PM
It takes a rare candidate to make Trump look like the sharper, more well put together option. Now, I voted for Pete back in the NH primary, a politician not only with enough charisma to take on Trump, but also the clarity and vigor to highlight Trump's obvious physical and mental decline over the past few years, but no, Democrats had to go for two septuagenarians even older than Trump instead, turning his weakness into a strength. Even if Bernie were to pull off a upset and win the nomination, Trump would then shift focus to "stamina" and physical health. I don't believe that the White House is being honest about Trump's supposedly perfect health, but there's nothing on the record officially contradicting it, and Bernie has had a heart attack recently.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on March 07, 2020, 04:27:30 PM
I liked Pete. But I don't think he would have beaten Trump. He still had a big hurdle to get over with the blacks' and the Hispanics' well-documented bias against homosexuality, which I know people are uncomfortable talking about but definitely exists.

At any rate a heart attack really isn't the indicator of pending mortality that people seem to be giving it credit for. And despite his age Bernie still appears sharp as a tack... something that can't be said about Biden.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on March 07, 2020, 04:51:58 PM
I like how Democratic nominations have devolved into arguing over what nominee has the best personal characteristics to appeal to a given racial group.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on March 07, 2020, 05:22:58 PM
I like how Democratic nominations have devolved into arguing over what nominee has the best personal characteristics to appeal to a given racial group.

Right, personal appeal has never had a place in politics. At any rate Rush brought it up and was renounced as racist for it. I don't think it's so popular to talk about.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on March 07, 2020, 05:28:24 PM
I like how Democratic nominations have devolved into arguing over what nominee has the best personal characteristics to appeal to a given racial group.

Right, personal appeal has never had a place in politics. At any rate Rush brought it up and was renounced as racist for it. I don't think it's so popular to talk about.

"Personal appeal" plastered across an entire race is not personal appeal. Attaching something like "homophobia" to an entire race is the literal definition of racism.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Roundy on March 07, 2020, 05:44:05 PM
I like how Democratic nominations have devolved into arguing over what nominee has the best personal characteristics to appeal to a given racial group.

Right, personal appeal has never had a place in politics. At any rate Rush brought it up and was renounced as racist for it. I don't think it's so popular to talk about.

"Personal appeal" plastered across an entire race is not personal appeal. Attaching something like "homophobia" to an entire race is the literal definition of racism.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm being racist. But obviously I'm not saying all black people are homophobic. It's just something that's at least perceived to be prevalent in the community.

Bringing it up about Hispanics may have been more of a mistake on my part. I was thinking about the fact that they are so predominantly Catholic but obviously that's more of a matter of religion than ethnicity and applies equally to all Catholics.

At any rate I do apologize if I happen to have offended anybody.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 07, 2020, 07:44:11 PM
Trump got impeached trying to weaken Biden politically.
Turns out, Biden was weakened enough all on his own.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Fortuna on March 07, 2020, 08:34:44 PM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primary-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

It looks like we're done here. The elite "left" want to keep their dank tax cuts. See you in 2024 bros.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 07, 2020, 09:36:04 PM
1/10 of no one...
>_>
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on March 07, 2020, 11:03:26 PM
1/10 of no one...
>_>

That's 538's way of saying there's a 10% chance a contested convention occurs (no one gets a majority of delegates).
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 07, 2020, 11:04:30 PM
1/10 of no one...
>_>

That's 538's way of saying there's a 10% chance a contested convention occurs (no one gets a majority of delegates).

Ah.
I misunderstood.  I thought it was a poll.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on March 11, 2020, 02:03:44 AM
Considering Bernie's recent primary performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHS-K7OuLAc
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 11, 2020, 10:22:29 AM
Considering Bernie's recent primary performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHS-K7OuLAc
I agree with everything stated in this video, except I do hate Bernie Sanders.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 11, 2020, 11:47:27 AM
Considering Bernie's recent primary performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHS-K7OuLAc
I agree with everything stated in this video, except I do hate Bernie Sanders.

Like we hate Trump?
Dave, why are you bringing up Trump in a Bernie thread??
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on March 11, 2020, 03:25:54 PM
Dave, why are you bringing up Trump in a Bernie thread??
Just for comparison.  Its hard to understand your hatred so best to find equivelent ones.
I do not know why it is hard to understand why I would hate someone who is in love with the idea of Castro, and in love with the idea of taking my toys to give them to Johnny to play with.

Fact is, many more people hate Bernie than they hate Trump.

A vast majority of people cannot stand Bernie...Bernie is a loser, spelled with a capital L.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on March 11, 2020, 05:10:47 PM
I'm getting very tired of Dave and totallackey constantly shitting up political threads with their kindergarten-tier discussions. Can you guys please make your own containment thread and suck each other off in that one while leaving the others alone?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on March 11, 2020, 05:13:03 PM
I'm getting very tired of Dave and totallackey constantly shitting up political threads with their kindergarten-tier discussions. Can you guys please make your own containment thread and suck each other off in that one while leaving the others alone?

As you wish.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on March 16, 2020, 02:25:53 PM
"Personal appeal" plastered across an entire race is not personal appeal. Attaching something like "homophobia" to an entire race is the literal definition of racism.
Is racism a bad political strategy? Seems to have worked a lot, historically.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rushy on March 17, 2020, 10:16:00 PM
"Personal appeal" plastered across an entire race is not personal appeal. Attaching something like "homophobia" to an entire race is the literal definition of racism.
Is racism a bad political strategy? Seems to have worked a lot, historically.

I didn't remark on whether or not it's a bad strategy. Racism has its place in politics because there are qualities, both physical and mental, that loosely vary based entirely on race. To say otherwise is to lie and we all know lying has no place in politics. Now, the real political discussion should be why those variations exist, rather than trying to claim that they do not.

In any case, what Roundy said was racist, but there's nothing objectively wrong with being racist. Many traditionally racist ideas are, for good or ill, based on pattern recognition. Identifying patterns and thinking critically about them is a hallmark of intelligence, but unfortunately lots of people accomplish the former and do none of the latter.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on April 08, 2020, 03:27:39 PM
Damn:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/bernie-sanders-drops-out-presidential-race-n1155156


o7
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on April 08, 2020, 03:30:29 PM
Yep.  I had hoped he'd stick it out but alas...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 08, 2020, 04:33:58 PM
Damn:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/bernie-sanders-drops-out-presidential-race-n1155156


o7
Time to get a new ad for a signature, junker...

But it is a great thing to read...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on April 08, 2020, 05:16:03 PM
Here's how Bernie can still win.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 09, 2020, 11:01:53 AM
It's OK, guys, I bet Ben & Jerry's will make a comeback in 2024 to once again ask for your financial support.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 09, 2020, 11:25:56 AM
It's OK, guys, I bet Ben & Jerry's will make a comeback in 2024 to once again ask for your financial support.
Need more income to take of those two million dollar homes he has...

Vacuuming falling hair costs money...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on April 09, 2020, 01:12:50 PM
It's OK, guys, I bet Ben & Jerry's will make a comeback in 2024 to once again ask for your financial support.
Need more income to take of those two million dollar homes he has...

Vacuuming falling hair costs money...

He doesn't own a 2 million dollar home.

He owns:
His residency in Vermont, which he bought back in the 80s when he ran for Mayor. 
His apartment in DC.
A cabin in Vermont.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on April 09, 2020, 04:29:32 PM
I don't know how seriously to take reddit, but I've already seen a number of angry Bernie supporters vow to never vote for Biden, and even a few say they'll vote for Trump in protest. It's insane. Republicans support their president, arguably the most controversial politician of modern times, almost unanimously, but Democrats can't stop splintering over Bernie. I really hope he doesn't run again in 2024. He's going to end up tearing the party apart.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: crutonius on April 09, 2020, 04:36:40 PM
A party that loses to the likes of Trump needs to be torn apart and put back together again. 

Biden has some work to do to win over Sander's supporters.  He should pick his vp accordingly.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on April 09, 2020, 05:07:44 PM
Seems less the party's fault than the fault of the American election system.  The democrats won the popular vote, what more can they do?  I suppose they should hire the likes of Cambridge Analytica so they can mastermind the electoral college a bit more?  Maybe they should gerrymander more?  Blaming the democrats for having the popular vote in 6/7 elections seems like an odd criticism.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on April 09, 2020, 05:38:49 PM
I don't know how seriously to take reddit, but I've already seen a number of angry Bernie supporters vow to never vote for Biden, and even a few say they'll vote for Trump in protest. It's insane.

Does it really matter which rapist they vote for? Probably better not to vote for any rapist.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 09, 2020, 08:01:03 PM
Does it really matter which rapist they vote for? Probably better not to vote for any rapist.
Vermin Supreme 2020?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: JRowe on April 09, 2020, 11:05:21 PM
I don't know how seriously to take reddit, but I've already seen a number of angry Bernie supporters vow to never vote for Biden, and even a few say they'll vote for Trump in protest. It's insane.

Does it really matter which rapist they vote for? Probably better not to vote for any rapist.
Vote for the rapist that doesn't start WW3 to distract from a policy decision.

I've never understood this attitude people have of wanting to elect someone they like as a person. I don't care if I'd throttle them if I spent more than a minute in their company, I'm not voting for someone to go out for drinks with, I'm voting for someone to enact policies. Sure, it'd be nice if they didn't need jail time, but that's not the political system we live in.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on April 10, 2020, 12:40:26 AM
I don't know how seriously to take reddit, but I've already seen a number of angry Bernie supporters vow to never vote for Biden, and even a few say they'll vote for Trump in protest. It's insane.

Does it really matter which rapist they vote for? Probably better not to vote for any rapist.
Vote for the rapist that doesn't start WW3 to distract from a policy decision.

I've never understood this attitude people have of wanting to elect someone they like as a person. I don't care if I'd throttle them if I spent more than a minute in their company, I'm not voting for someone to go out for drinks with, I'm voting for someone to enact policies. Sure, it'd be nice if they didn't need jail time, but that's not the political system we live in.

There's not being the kind of person you necessarily want to go out drinking with, and there's being a fundamentally bad person, someone who should not be trusted with the power and responsibility of the presidency. Character matters, and the notion that it doesn't is part of how Trump managed to be elected. I honestly don't know what to make of the recent allegations about Biden (https://www.salon.com/2020/03/31/a-woman-accuses-joe-biden-of-sexual-assault-and-all-hell-breaks-loose-online-heres-what-we-know/). The timing makes it hard not to be suspicious, and it's infuriating to think that a scandal like this is poised to bring down the Democratic candidate when Trump has been credibly accused by multiple women of far worse. But committing rape is not something that should be just brushed aside as irrelevant.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: JRowe on April 10, 2020, 12:56:33 AM
There's not being the kind of person you necessarily want to go out drinking with, and there's being a fundamentally bad person, someone who should not be trusted with the power and responsibility of the presidency. Character matters, and the notion that it doesn't is part of how Trump managed to be elected.
There are three questions I ask of any political candidate.
1. Do I agree with what this person has stated they want to do?
2. Do I believe this person will actually set out to enact what they have claimed?
3. Do I believe this person has any chance of actually getting into a position to enact their policies?

A world where someone who's a rapist is sure to face jail time and consequences is a good one, but it's independent to this. I wish it wasn't, but it has to be.
The problem with 'character matters' is that you aren't voting for a person, you're voting for a party and you're voting for policies. Even the President doesn't act alone. The people they appoint are going to have a huge amount of influence, so the question is whether you can trust the people they are likely to appoint, which is more policy than personality. People voting for character is why we got Trump. There are some lifelong republicans who voted for the party no matter who was in charge of it, but there was so many more who rabidly supported Trump because of how he acted, because he didn't act like a typical politician, a cult of personality is what got him into power. Voting for character is also where you get the diehard Bernie fans who don't vote democrat or vote Trump out of spite for their person not making the ticket. They become so obsessed with character and the person that they don't realize that they're meant to be voting for policy. It happened in 2016 too.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on April 10, 2020, 01:16:59 AM
There are three questions I ask of any political candidate.
1. Do I agree with what this person has stated they want to do?
2. Do I believe this person will actually set out to enact what they have claimed?
3. Do I believe this person has any chance of actually getting into a position to enact their policies?

Imagine thinking Biden has an actual chance to get elected... Also, have you read Biden's policies lately? He jammed a bunch of stuff in there to sound progressive and there is zero chance he would pursue any of it if somehow he miraculously beat Trump.


Voting for character is also where you get the diehard Bernie fans who don't vote democrat or vote Trump out of spite for their person not making the ticket. They become so obsessed with character and the person that they don't realize that they're meant to be voting for policy. It happened in 2016 too.

Bernie's support comes from his policies. It is completely out of touch and asinine to have the opinion people are devoted to Bernie's "character" and not the cause (aka his policy agenda). In the world of RNC and DNC dog and pony shows I know that can be a little startling.  The only people the DNC have to blame for their 2016 loss and their upcoming 2020 loss are themselves. I am sure after this one they will take some time to reflect and realize they need to change. Or they will just keep repeating the same errors over and over again because a Trump presidency is better for them than someone like Bernie. Aside from this hot take non-sequitur of yours, you should actually go back and look into 2016. I get the feeling your opinion on that is as wrong as most of the stuff you have said so far.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: JRowe on April 10, 2020, 01:28:41 AM
Imagine thinking Biden has an actual chance to get elected...
I don't think he has much of a chance. Nothing I said commented on his chances. I just pointed out he's a better option than Trump and, realistically, the choice is between the two of them. Trump falls at the first hurdle, Biden falls at the third, every other candidate falls way, way worse at the third. A 1% chance is still better than a 0% chance.

Quote
Bernie's  support comes from his policies.
Partially, but you can't deny those policies have become conflated with him somewhat. Like you pointed out, he's an exception to a lot of the usual rules of politics, no super PACS etc, he stands out from the crowd... That's where a lot of his support has come from, particularly the more fervent corners. That's personality.
Otherwise you're attributing a lot of things to me that I never said. I didn't say the DNC didn't have plenty to blame itself for, I didn't say Bernie didn't have people that supported him for his policies, I didn't say Biden was likely to win or that he had outstanding policies. Biden's an ass. The DNC and American political system in general has a lot of fundamental issues that will never be addressed because those in power rode to victory on them.
It is just also the case that getting invested in who a politician is as an individual, as opposed to a vehicle for policies, is inevitably very dangerous ground to walk on. And some corner of Bernie supporters, not all, but a particular niche corner (there is always a niche corner in any group, and if you can't spot them then you're probably in them) are obsessive over Sanders as much as they are Sanders' policies.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on April 10, 2020, 01:45:20 AM
I didn't say Bernie didn't have people that supported him for his policies

That is right, you didn't. You focused squarely on people voting for a person/character, and are now acting shocked with some sort of logical follow up to the opinion you put out there. If this group of people even exists (which I doubt you have any evidence of), they would be a rather small minority. The vast majority of Bernie's support is from the policy. Writing a long paragraph about something that doesn't matter adds nothing to the conversation. You also seem to attribute this alleged group of support as the reason Trump won. It is beyond asinine. Trump won in 2016 because Hillary and the DNC ran an absolute garbage campaign, not because of some boogeymen Bernie supporters.

At this point, there is no reason to even engage you in the topic since you don't apparently hold any beliefs that you are willing to share because then you may actually be asked to defend them. It is much easier just to pretend you didn't imply anything regardless of the context of the rest of your post and just point out every literal thing you did not say. A classic example of neoliberal centrist gibberish.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: JRowe on April 10, 2020, 02:05:56 AM
You also seem to attribute this alleged group of support as the reason Trump won.
No, I really didn't. You invented that wholesale. I get it, you've probably had plenty of bad faith discussions on this, but you could at least wait more than a post before looking for the absolute worst reading of whatever I say. You seem to be working under the idea that I'm trying to make some grand claim about the fate of the election or whatever, and I'm really not, not every post is trying to solve the world's problems. I didn't talk about the people that voted for Bernie because of his policies and then turned around and voted democrat after because they weren't what I was talking about.

It was a factor, yes, I don't know how you could possibly have missed the people who said they'd write-in Bernie's name and such, and the surge in votes for third parties... All of that's established. Now the third party votes can partly be attributed to how Clinton's campaign went and a myriad of issues, so the degree to which the Bernie-obsessives affected the result is definitely up for debate, and it likely has been overplayed, but denying it happened is unjustifiable. Whether or not they swayed the election is impossible to say, it is after all always the worst parts of a movement that are the most vocal, so the vitriol and noise they kicked up wouldn't be proportional to their effect, but they certainly existed.

If you want 'beliefs that I am willing to share,' stick to what I actually said.
1. To claim that all, or even 99%, of any politician's supporters do so strictly for policy is to have an unreasonably optimistic view of the world.
2. The democratic system in the US is rigged to favor those that win a popularity contest more than a political contest, charisma and some degree of identity are required to have a hope to get anywhere. You can have policies that somehow everyone agrees with but if you drone them in a monotone you're going to lose to someone who becomes a meme.
3. Biden is an ass. Trump is worse. The US has a two-party system so realistically they are the only choices.
4. People that become attached to a person rather than policies make decisions based on personal attachment and not what the country needs. If someone beat your fave to the ticket, you're going to be biased against them, and if you're in a position where you take their victory personally, you're going to be less likely to vote for them.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: JRowe on April 10, 2020, 02:24:43 AM
But, okay, last post because this has gone kind of ridiculously off the rails.

I made a post about how Biden and Trump are not equally bad, and that I don't expect to like the person I elect into office. That was it. That was literally it.
I elaborated a bit when asked and went on a slight tangent about my concerns with how much people prioritize character over policy, or indeed treat it like it matters at all beyond 'will do the job.' I mentioned Trump and his supporters and if you want context, yes, I mentioned the people who insisted on writing in Bernie's name and such in 2016 as I thought they were common knowledge. At no point did I say they singlehandedly swayed the election, I didn't even imply it, not remotely, I used them as an easy example of the larger point I was making to avoid making everything about Trump (as far too much is). It was a handy example and no more, and I don't know how in context it could be read as any more.
That's all I wanted to say. You elevated that to an attack on me, a wholesale invention of what you've probably heard other people say but I never said, and a wild guess at what my politics are. The reason you might be struggling to find a political point to respond to is that there wasn't one, I wasn't talking about who was more electable, I was talking about a flaw in the electoral system and the electoral base that affects all sides.

You turned 'People are too concerned with personality in who they want as President,' into 'Biden is a surefire win! Every Bernie supporter is obsessive and insane and they're the reason Trump got elected and nobody else! No one likes Bernie for hs policies! Hillary was da best! Biden's great!'

"They become so obsessed with character and the person that they don't realize that they're meant to be voting for policy," was not directed solely at Bernie supporters. Context. It's an issue basically worldwide on basically all sides of basically every election. It's the one issue with democracy that there's yet to be any workable large-scale solution to, at least that I've seen. Not every post on a forum is a partisan broadcast.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on April 10, 2020, 02:35:23 AM
You also seem to attribute this alleged group of support as the reason Trump won.
No, I really didn't. You invented that wholesale.

Voting for character is also where you get the diehard Bernie fans who don't vote democrat or vote Trump out of spite for their person not making the ticket. They become so obsessed with character and the person that they don't realize that they're meant to be voting for policy. It happened in 2016 too.

Yeah, that was a real stretch I made there based on the exact words that you used...


If you want 'beliefs that I am willing to share,' stick to what I actually said.
1. To claim that all, or even 99%, of any politician's supporters do so strictly for policy is to have an unreasonably optimistic view of the world.
So your first belief is about something no one has claimed. Got it.

2. The democratic system in the US is rigged to favor those that win a popularity contest more than a political contest, charisma and some degree of identity are required to have a hope to get anywhere. You can have policies that somehow everyone agrees with but if you drone them in a monotone you're going to lose to someone who becomes a meme.
Turns out some people aren't okay with that. Imagine having some sort of convictions or moral compass and making decisions based on that. But yes, paying lip service to the rigged system makes you seem enlightened so may as well stop there.

3. Biden is an ass. Trump is worse. The US has a two-party system so realistically they are the only choices.
Corrupt rapists who drone brown people in the middle east and keep kids in cages at the Mexico border. You are going to have to do some work to convince anyone Biden is different than Trump. Because aside from personality they are two sides of the same coin.

4. People that become attached to a person rather than policies make decisions based on personal attachment and not what the country needs. If someone beat your fave to the ticket, you're going to be biased against them, and if you're in a position where you take their victory personally, you're going to be less likely to vote for them.
I guess it is important that this isn't some sort of rampant problem. But you should definitely keep droning on about it like it actually makes an impact.


I made a post about how Biden and Trump are not equally bad, and that I don't expect to like the person I elect into office. That was it. That was literally it.
They are equally bad. That is it. It is literally it.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: JRowe on April 10, 2020, 09:47:42 AM
But yes, paying lip service to the rigged system makes you seem enlightened so may as well stop there.
I'm acknowledging that it exists and that wishing it doesn't isn't going to make it go away. Want to change things, yes, but also work with what you have.


Quote
They are equally bad. That is it. It is literally it.
As people, not as politicians. Their policies categorically are not the same. There's more overlap than there was between Trump and Bernie, but to say Trump and Biden would be equally bad as presidents is to have no understanding of what actually makes a president. They would have different people on their cabinets, they would choose different supreme court justices, they would have different VPs, they would have different likelihoods of changing their mind...

You call it a 'rigged system' how candidates need charisma and character to stand out from the crowd, but you seem to have no problem using it to sort between the options. Bernie rode the same train too, he'd have to to get as far as he did, sure he got screwed over by the DNC needing an establishment pick, but no one gets as close as he did without coming packaged with the usual political marketability. When there are inherent flaws in a political system you need to accept that they also affect the people you like. Otherwise you're not politically savvy, you're just making a cult.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on April 10, 2020, 09:49:49 AM
Character is more important than policy.  Not by alot but it is.  First off, congress makes policy.  And they tend to be hard to convince and quick to add in their own crap.

Second, character shows the face of America.  Right now, America is a narcasistic, back stabbing, opportunist asshole.  Quick to anger and ignorant.  And this affects trade.  Peace deals.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on April 10, 2020, 05:24:06 PM
The problem with 'character matters' is that you aren't voting for a person, you're voting for a party and you're voting for policies.

That's simply not true. Every day the president has to make decisions, talk to foreign leaders, respond to unforeseen events, and do plenty of other human things that only a human can do. A lot depends on their personality, judgment, temperament, and so on. The last three years provide excellent evidence of this. If Trump is no more than a list of a policies, his administration should have been no different to his predecessors. Instead, it's been a chaotic, dysfunctional mess, which we can attribute to Trump's laziness, erratic personality, and general incompetence.

Quote
People voting for character is why we got Trump. There are some lifelong republicans who voted for the party no matter who was in charge of it, but there was so many more who rabidly supported Trump because of how he acted, because he didn't act like a typical politician, a cult of personality is what got him into power. Voting for character is also where you get the diehard Bernie fans who don't vote democrat or vote Trump out of spite for their person not making the ticket. They become so obsessed with character and the person that they don't realize that they're meant to be voting for policy. It happened in 2016 too.

Maybe I wasn't entirely clear, but I'm using the word character to mean the moral and ethical qualities of a person. It's not synonymous with personal appeal. If character had been a major concern in 2016, Trump would never have been elected, because most people could see that he was a foul person. But just enough people held their noses and voted for him, presumably telling themselves that they could separate the personal from the political, that they were electing Trump simply to do a job, that he could be a good president without necessarily being a good person. They were wrong.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: crutonius on April 10, 2020, 09:46:33 PM
Character is a good thing.  But I see what jrowe is saying.  I would be a lot more forgiving of Trump acting like a maniac if he were actually effective in doing things that benefit the American people.

Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Shane on April 11, 2020, 01:33:55 AM
I really hope he doesn't run again in 2024. He's going to end up tearing the party apart.


I hope so.
The Democratic party is garbage.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: junker on April 11, 2020, 03:59:20 AM
I really hope he doesn't run again in 2024. He's going to end up tearing the party apart.


I hope so.
The Democratic party is garbage.

Sean is the only one in the thread who gets it. Unless garygreen has posted, he also gets it.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on April 11, 2020, 02:41:52 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET1eTj8WAAAmLO7?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 11, 2020, 07:01:42 PM
It's OK, guys, I bet Ben & Jerry's will make a comeback in 2024 to once again ask for your financial support.
Need more income to take care of those two million dollar homes he has...

Vacuuming falling hair costs money...

He doesn't own a 2 million dollar home.

He owns:
His residency in Vermont, which he bought back in the 80s when he ran for Mayor. 
His apartment in DC.
A cabin in Vermont.
Where did I write he owns a two million dollar home?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 11, 2020, 07:06:34 PM
The timing makes it hard not to be suspicious, and it's infuriating to think that a scandal like this is poised to bring down the Democratic candidate when Trump has been credibly accused by multiple women of far worse. But committing rape is not something that should be just brushed aside as irrelevant.
Everything about your post is just dandy, but I, and everyone else, would really love to see just what qualifies as being worse than rape that Trump has been credibly accused of...

Usually credible accusations, especially those of the criminal type, end up with the attention of a prosecutor, who then decides to either file charges or not...

But a couple of bright notes:

1) You linked to Salon magazine, which if it was on actual paper, could help alleviate the TP crisis worldwide...

B) Nothing like this is necessary to bring down Biden as he was never up to begin with...

LOL!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on April 11, 2020, 07:51:29 PM
It's OK, guys, I bet Ben & Jerry's will make a comeback in 2024 to once again ask for your financial support.
Need more income to take care of those two million dollar homes he has...

Vacuuming falling hair costs money...

He doesn't own a 2 million dollar home.

He owns:
His residency in Vermont, which he bought back in the 80s when he ran for Mayor. 
His apartment in DC.
A cabin in Vermont.
Where did I write he owns a two million dollar home?

Literally right in the bit I quoted.

Quote
take care of those two million dollar homes he has
The grammar and wording of the quote tells the reader "He has multiple homes which cost $2 Million."  But if you meant "all of his homes, which in total, are worth $2 Million" then that's different. Probably wrong and meaningless.


Of course, I have no idea why you'd have an issue with it.  Trump needs money to take care of his Multi-Billion dollars (in some cases) towers and properties.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: GreatATuin on April 11, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
I don't know how seriously to take reddit, but I've already seen a number of angry Bernie supporters vow to never vote for Biden, and even a few say they'll vote for Trump in protest. It's insane. Republicans support their president, arguably the most controversial politician of modern times, almost unanimously, but Democrats can't stop splintering over Bernie. I really hope he doesn't run again in 2024. He's going to end up tearing the party apart.

Sanders will turn 83 in 2024.

In 2008, many wondered if McCain was too old to run for the job. He was 72.

Trump will turn 74 in a few weeks, Biden is 77, Sanders 78.

Maybe it could be time for a new generation in 2024?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: CJO on April 12, 2020, 04:15:26 AM
Question.  [democrats bad republicans good checkmate atheists]
Yes, before the parties switched sides, Republicans did a lot of stuff commonly associated with modern Democrats, and vice-versa. This is not particularly significant at this point in time.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/8a43tp/myth_or_fact_did_the_us_political_parties_switch/
See there u go posting a link about an article someone wrote.   And we're not talking about switching sides we're talking about living history. Not what u see on the news or learned in school. History based off library of Congress data.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: CJO on April 12, 2020, 04:27:38 AM
All I mean is that at the time in history that these things happened the parties that they called themselves at that time did these things.  And what I mean when I say Dems are still doing is because I see a lot of radical name calling on the side of the Dems.  Trump calls people names but he says it playfully. Watch.  When the Dems call some one name it is said with hate and dissent.  And just how much better we're race relations and minority community after 8 yes Obama. Not much if not worse. And now Trump.  Doing well across the races. Economy was up.  And still all u hear is race race xenophobia from Dems.  Republicans don't call Dems racist why because most are not. Dems call everyone that doesn't agree with them racist.  Pot calling kettle black. 
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: CJO on April 12, 2020, 04:41:15 AM
Another observation. I have never seen a news conference or interview in which a republican mentioned wanting Americans to die during this pandemic. Except for pro Dem sound bites.  Just the other day I saw a portion of an interview with James Carvel saying the reason that the election was held in Wisconsin was for 1 supreme Court seat and the republicans don't care how many people they kill to get it.  During that interview segment a Dem supporter saw the clip then immediatly started insulting the other questions. A congeress men and stating again all republicans want are people dead.  And would not even address what Carvel had said.  U can't just say something and it's true and if u yell the loudest people will hear u.  You have to b intelligent and informed and will to answer questions with proper answer based on opinion of facts.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: CJO on April 12, 2020, 04:44:36 AM
The best defense against any threat is to be educated so u can make an intelligent response.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on April 12, 2020, 05:41:00 PM
We have an edit function. You don't need to make four different posts in the space of thirty minutes.

The timing makes it hard not to be suspicious, and it's infuriating to think that a scandal like this is poised to bring down the Democratic candidate when Trump has been credibly accused by multiple women of far worse. But committing rape is not something that should be just brushed aside as irrelevant.
Everything about your post is just dandy, but I, and everyone else, would really love to see just what qualifies as being worse than rape that Trump has been credibly accused of...

Usually credible accusations, especially those of the criminal type, end up with the attention of a prosecutor, who then decides to either file charges or not...

But a couple of bright notes:

1) You linked to Salon magazine, which if it was on actual paper, could help alleviate the TP crisis worldwide...

B) Nothing like this is necessary to bring down Biden as he was never up to begin with...

LOL!

"Worse" probably wasn't the right word to use, but I was of course referring to the numerous credible accusations of sexual misconduct leveled at Trump over the years. They aren't a problem for Trump simply because everyone is numb to the fact that the president is a sleazy douchebag. But depending on how this story develops, and whether or not the Republican-controlled House and the right-wing media decide to run with it, Biden could very easily be hammered with it from now until the election, with the people shouting the loudest about it being the same ones who deliberately turn a blind eye to Trump's sordid history with women. Just like how they ignore the stupid shit he says every day and make a big deal out of every verbal slip-up from Biden.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on April 12, 2020, 07:28:25 PM
The problem isn’t that Biden has to live with these consequences, but that Trump doesn’t
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on April 12, 2020, 08:29:01 PM
I had an odd conversation with my mom.  She told me how Biden's son had 3 good "deals" in 3 different countries after  Joe Biden did "dealings" with them as VP.

And while I hadn't heard about any of them, I didn't want to get into it but it makes me wonder: Why would she be angry about that when Trump does that on a daily basis? 

I'm beginning to suspect that brainwashing is afoot.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 13, 2020, 03:47:51 AM
I had an odd conversation with my mom.  She told me how Biden's son had 3 good "deals" in 3 different countries after  Joe Biden did "dealings" with them as VP.

And while I hadn't heard about any of them, I didn't want to get into it but it makes me wonder: Why would she be angry about that when Trump does that on a daily basis? 

I'm beginning to suspect that brainwashing is afoot.

Trump is not corrupt. However, ignoring this, are you aware that two wrongs do not make a right?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on April 13, 2020, 04:12:17 AM
I had an odd conversation with my mom.  She told me how Biden's son had 3 good "deals" in 3 different countries after  Joe Biden did "dealings" with them as VP.

And while I hadn't heard about any of them, I didn't want to get into it but it makes me wonder: Why would she be angry about that when Trump does that on a daily basis? 

I'm beginning to suspect that brainwashing is afoot.

Trump is not corrupt. However, ignoring this, are you aware that two wrongs do not make a right?

Who had two wrongs in an attempt to make a right? 

But think about it: Trump has his children(and son in law), one of which runs his business, working for him at the White House.  He also gets alot of business to his own golf courses.  His hotels receive many high level visitors all in an attempt to get his favor.   

So why is it bad if Joe Biden helps his children get deals but its ok for Trump to give his children positions of power to aide in their wealth?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 13, 2020, 09:50:32 AM
It's OK, guys, I bet Ben & Jerry's will make a comeback in 2024 to once again ask for your financial support.
Need more income to take care of those two million dollar homes he has...

Vacuuming falling hair costs money...

He doesn't own a 2 million dollar home.

He owns:
His residency in Vermont, which he bought back in the 80s when he ran for Mayor. 
His apartment in DC.
A cabin in Vermont.
Where did I write he owns a two million dollar home?

Literally right in the bit I quoted.

Quote
take care of those two million dollar homes he has
The grammar and wording of the quote tells the reader "He has multiple homes which cost $2 Million."  But if you meant "all of his homes, which in total, are worth $2 Million" then that's different. Probably wrong and meaningless.
Wrong.

I wrote "two million dollar homes."

And if you thought it was meaningless, then it would have been best for not to reply and demonstrate a distinct inability to read and comprehend simple statements.

Of course, I have no idea why you'd have an issue with it.  Trump needs money to take care of his Multi-Billion dollars (in some cases) towers and properties.
Falling hair is an issue...for Bernie...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 13, 2020, 09:57:15 AM
"Worse" probably wasn't the right word to use, but I was of course referring to the numerous credible accusations of sexual misconduct leveled at Trump over the years. They aren't a problem for Trump simply because everyone is numb to the fact that the president is a sleazy douchebag. But depending on how this story develops, and whether or not the Republican-controlled House and the right-wing media decide to run with it, Biden could very easily be hammered with it from now until the election, with the people shouting the loudest about it being the same ones who deliberately turn a blind eye to Trump's sordid history with women. Just like how they ignore the stupid shit he says every day and make a big deal out of every verbal slip-up from Biden.
Actually the reason Trump doesn't need to worry about them is this: the fact of the matter is they are bullshit.

Trust me...like I wrote earlier, these accusations are the least of Biden's worries.

That old geezer is obviously suffering from dementia.

The Democrats ought to start a new campaign strategy...

"Don't pick on the old demented man! Can't you see he is helpless!"

After all, America loves the underdog!

LMMFAO!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 13, 2020, 10:20:03 AM
I, for one, look forward to the Trump-Biden debates. Remember Trump creepily pacing behind Hillary? Imagine that, except we replace Hillary with Blue Trump.

America is the best reality TV show yet.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on April 13, 2020, 10:56:32 AM

Wrong.

I wrote "two million dollar homes."

And if you thought it was meaningless, then it would have been best for not to reply and demonstrate a distinct inability to read and comprehend simple statements.

Yes, you did write 'two million dollar homes'.  Which, due to lack of punctuation, means 'multiple two million dollar homes.'. You described the houses, not their total value together
Example:
You need to take care of your red cars.
You need to take care of your two dollar sunglasses.

If you really were talking about the total value of his homes, then your statement is super ambiguous as it doesn't mention how many homes he has.  If he owns say... 20 houses, divided by 2 million, isn't much per home.  Or what about homes worth 1.5 million and 500,000? 

Basically: ya dun fucked up english.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Dr David Thork on April 13, 2020, 11:04:24 AM
I hope all 720 million unemployed women in the USA vote for Biden.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on April 13, 2020, 04:17:46 PM
Actually the reason Trump doesn't need to worry about them is this: the fact of the matter is they are bullshit.

I don't believe that. It doesn't seem feasible to me that all these women are lying. I could see one woman lying, I could even see three or four lying, but well over a dozen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations) just isn't believable. Trump is not the only high-profile, wealthy businessman or controversial politician in the world, and it is not the normal or expected thing for members of either of those groups to accumulate a very long list of women groundlessly alleging they sexually assaulted them. There must be some fire when there's that much smoke.

Quote
Trust me...like I wrote earlier, these accusations are the least of Biden's worries.

Yeah, you're probably right. Biden winning seems very unlikely, even without the added wrinkle of a woman accusing him of rape.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 13, 2020, 11:00:29 PM
I had an odd conversation with my mom.  She told me how Biden's son had 3 good "deals" in 3 different countries after  Joe Biden did "dealings" with them as VP.

And while I hadn't heard about any of them, I didn't want to get into it but it makes me wonder: Why would she be angry about that when Trump does that on a daily basis? 

I'm beginning to suspect that brainwashing is afoot.

Trump is not corrupt. However, ignoring this, are you aware that two wrongs do not make a right?

Who had two wrongs in an attempt to make a right? 

But think about it: Trump has his children(and son in law), one of which runs his business, working for him at the White House.  He also gets alot of business to his own golf courses.  His hotels receive many high level visitors all in an attempt to get his favor.   

So why is it bad if Joe Biden helps his children get deals but its ok for Trump to give his children positions of power to aide in their wealth?

That appears to be a two wrongs make a right argument. If Trump is a murderer, is it okay for Joe Biden to murder someone?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on April 13, 2020, 11:37:56 PM
It’s an issue of having double standards not of two wrongs making a right.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on April 14, 2020, 04:57:57 AM
I had an odd conversation with my mom.  She told me how Biden's son had 3 good "deals" in 3 different countries after  Joe Biden did "dealings" with them as VP.

And while I hadn't heard about any of them, I didn't want to get into it but it makes me wonder: Why would she be angry about that when Trump does that on a daily basis? 

I'm beginning to suspect that brainwashing is afoot.

Trump is not corrupt. However, ignoring this, are you aware that two wrongs do not make a right?

Who had two wrongs in an attempt to make a right? 

But think about it: Trump has his children(and son in law), one of which runs his business, working for him at the White House.  He also gets alot of business to his own golf courses.  His hotels receive many high level visitors all in an attempt to get his favor.   

So why is it bad if Joe Biden helps his children get deals but its ok for Trump to give his children positions of power to aide in their wealth?

That appears to be a two wrongs make a right argument. If Trump is a murderer, is it okay for Joe Biden to murder someone?

Yeah, thats not the "two wrongs make a right" argument since its one wrong per person.  As Rama said, its a double standard issue.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 14, 2020, 10:24:16 AM
Actually the reason Trump doesn't need to worry about them is this: the fact of the matter is they are bullshit.

I don't believe that. It doesn't seem feasible to me that all these women are lying. I could see one woman lying, I could even see three or four lying, but well over a dozen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations) just isn't believable. Trump is not the only high-profile, wealthy businessman or controversial politician in the world, and it is not the normal or expected thing for members of either of those groups to accumulate a very long list of women groundlessly alleging they sexually assaulted them. There must be some fire when there's that much smoke.
Holy crap...

The guy started his campaign...all the accusations you claim have been made...where were they then?

The guy won the election...all the accusations you claim have been made...where were they then?

The guy has been in office for three years and a couple of months, been opposed nearly every single step of the way, russian colluder, ukrainian usurper, etc., etc., ...all the accusations you claim have been made...where are they now...

Sorry, no smoke...not even a match...
Quote
Trust me...like I wrote earlier, these accusations are the least of Biden's worries.

Yeah, you're probably right. Biden winning seems very unlikely, even without the added wrinkle of a woman accusing him of rape.
I honestly don't know what your problem is with Trump.

He has been the most Democratic politician to ever run for office in the history of the Republican party and he actually won...

You progressives should be very, very happy.

Your goal of totally destroying any semblance of what was once a free, constitutional republic has been a total success!
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on April 14, 2020, 10:50:37 AM
Your goal of totally destroying any semblance of what was once a free, constitutional republic has been a total success!

Trump: Hold my beer (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-trump-claims-president-authority-is-total-2020-4)
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 14, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Your goal of totally destroying any semblance of what was once a free, constitutional republic has been a total success!

Trump: Hold my beer (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-trump-claims-president-authority-is-total-2020-4)
Did you actually think what I posted was supporting Trump?

Or are you being your usual self?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on April 14, 2020, 12:53:27 PM

Did you actually think what I posted was supporting Trump?


No, why do you think that is what I thought?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on April 14, 2020, 01:15:14 PM
... Did Lackey just say Trump is a closet Democrat?  ???

Because I'm really questioning his grip on reality now.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 14, 2020, 01:55:45 PM
... Did Lackey just say Trump is a closet Democrat?  ???

Because I'm really questioning his grip on reality now.
Trump has been a lifelong and open Democrat.

"In a 2004 interview, Trump told CNN's Wolf Blitzer: "In many cases, I probably identify more as Democrat," explaining: "It just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats than the Republicans."
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 14, 2020, 02:07:08 PM
Trump is a run-of-the-mill 1990's centrist Democrat. Many of those people have moved away from the party after it has become more extreme in recent years. If JFK was running as a Democrat today he would be rejected for his right-wing policies.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 14, 2020, 02:11:30 PM
Trump is a run-of-the-mill 1990's centrist Democrat. Many of those people have moved away from the party after it has become more extreme in recent years. If JFK was running as a Democrat today he would be rejected for his right-wing policies.
Most progressives would reject the ideas and philosophies that lead to the writing of the Declaration of Independence.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Rama Set on April 14, 2020, 02:36:01 PM
Only extremists would, obviously.  The silly idea that all people with left wing beliefs are bolshiveks or intersectionalists is just as dumb as thinking that people with right wing beliefs are nazis.  Almost everyone you talk to would agree that the principles the USA are founded on are sound.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on April 14, 2020, 11:08:46 PM
Holy crap...

The guy started his campaign...all the accusations you claim have been made...where were they then?

The guy won the election...all the accusations you claim have been made...where were they then?

The guy has been in office for three years and a couple of months, been opposed nearly every single step of the way, russian colluder, ukrainian usurper, etc., etc., ...all the accusations you claim have been made...where are they now...

Sorry, no smoke...not even a match...

I'm not sure what you're even trying to say with this or how it rebuts my argument. The article I linked to provides the general timeline. Some of the accusations preceded Trump's presidential campaign, and some of the accusers decided to step forward after seeing Trump deny ever sexually assaulting anyone on TV in the wake of the Access Hollywood recording - which itself, I would argue, is also strong evidence that Trump has probably done that kind of thing before. As for where the accusations are now, well, a few lawsuits are making their way through the courts, but I don't expect Republicans to care about how those turn out, even if Trump were to actually lose them.

Quote
I honestly don't know what your problem is with Trump.

He has been the most Democratic politician to ever run for office in the history of the Republican party and he actually won...

You progressives should be very, very happy.

My opposition to Trump is not rooted in ideology. Frankly, he doesn't have any kind of coherent, consistent ideology to oppose. His agenda is the betterment of himself. How to make himself richer, more powerful, more praised and admired. How can you have a political argument with a worldview that shallow and self-absorbed? Everyone should be opposed to that. Republicans, Democrats, conservatives, liberals - basically, anyone who isn't Trump. I've been stressing this point a lot lately, but it's important. Trump's victories are not your victories. His gains are not your gains. He's not going to share his power with you. He's not going to give you a cut of his profits. He's not going to not stab you in the back at whatever moment he deems it personally profitable to do so. You will never be anything more than a disposable pawn to Trump. A man like that doesn't deserve your loyalty and support.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 15, 2020, 11:11:07 AM
Holy crap...

The guy started his campaign...all the accusations you claim have been made...where were they then?

The guy won the election...all the accusations you claim have been made...where were they then?

The guy has been in office for three years and a couple of months, been opposed nearly every single step of the way, russian colluder, ukrainian usurper, etc., etc., ...all the accusations you claim have been made...where are they now...

Sorry, no smoke...not even a match...

I'm not sure what you're even trying to say with this or how it rebuts my argument. The article I linked to provides the general timeline. Some of the accusations preceded Trump's presidential campaign, and some of the accusers decided to step forward after seeing Trump deny ever sexually assaulting anyone on TV in the wake of the Access Hollywood recording - which itself, I would argue, is also strong evidence that Trump has probably done that kind of thing before. As for where the accusations are now, well, a few lawsuits are making their way through the courts, but I don't expect Republicans to care about how those turn out, even if Trump were to actually lose them.

Quote
I honestly don't know what your problem is with Trump.

He has been the most Democratic politician to ever run for office in the history of the Republican party and he actually won...

You progressives should be very, very happy.

My opposition to Trump is not rooted in ideology. Frankly, he doesn't have any kind of coherent, consistent ideology to oppose. His agenda is the betterment of himself. How to make himself richer, more powerful, more praised and admired. How can you have a political argument with a worldview that shallow and self-absorbed? Everyone should be opposed to that. Republicans, Democrats, conservatives, liberals - basically, anyone who isn't Trump. I've been stressing this point a lot lately, but it's important. Trump's victories are not your victories. His gains are not your gains. He's not going to share his power with you. He's not going to give you a cut of his profits. He's not going to not stab you in the back at whatever moment he deems it personally profitable to do so. You will never be anything more than a disposable pawn to Trump. A man like that doesn't deserve your loyalty and support.
Nobody deserves my loyalty or support.

Those things are earned and even then, I generally do not grant such things willy nilly, especially on the basis of and R or D or I.

There is nothing to any of the accusations as I wrote earlier.

Nobody who doesn't come forward with the grievance or problem or accusation at the time of occurrence deserves even less respect than the orange man you hate so much.

Used to be that speaking your voice, even in the face of fear, was behavior that was admired.

That is what progressives do not get.

People see the cognitive dissonance and the equivocation in people calling themselves progressive...especially Bernie...

The dude is an 80 year old loser and a chump.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on April 15, 2020, 12:28:05 PM
TotalLackey totally lacks an understanding in sexual assault victim psychology.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: honk on April 15, 2020, 11:35:28 PM
Nobody deserves my loyalty or support.

Those things are earned and even then, I generally do not grant such things willy nilly, especially on the basis of and R or D or I.

I feel as though you're conflating "deserves" with "being entitled to." I'm not saying that Trump isn't entitled to your support or loyalty, although you're absolutely right that he isn't, and neither is any other politician. I'm saying that Trump has already shown that neither you nor anyone else should support him. He doesn't care about ideology or policy, he cares about his wealth, power, and public image. Republicans should not have someone with such shallow, selfish interests at the head of their party.

Quote
There is nothing to any of the accusations as I wrote earlier.

Nobody who doesn't come forward with the grievance or problem or accusation at the time of occurrence deserves even less respect than the orange man you hate so much.

Used to be that speaking your voice, even in the face of fear, was behavior that was admired.

That is incredibly harsh and judgmental. Someone who doesn't immediately report a rape is worse than the actual rapist? Seriously? In any case, this is just you making your (bizarre) case that the accusers are morally reprehensible, not that they aren't credible. My position, to rephrase it a bit, is that if we could look at this long list of accusers and suppose that they're all just lying because Trump is so controversial and has such fierce opposition, then we should logically wonder why other controversial politicians haven't been plagued by similar cases of lying women. Where are Boris Johnson's accusers? David Cameron's? George W. Bush's? Mitch McConnell's?
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 16, 2020, 10:12:27 AM
Nobody deserves my loyalty or support.

Those things are earned and even then, I generally do not grant such things willy nilly, especially on the basis of and R or D or I.

I feel as though you're conflating "deserves" with "being entitled to." I'm not saying that Trump isn't entitled to your support or loyalty, although you're absolutely right that he isn't, and neither is any other politician. I'm saying that Trump has already shown that neither you nor anyone else should support him. He doesn't care about ideology or policy, he cares about his wealth, power, and public image. Republicans should not have someone with such shallow, selfish interests at the head of their party.
Again, you write as if a Republican holding any political office actually exists, ffs.

I am certainly not conflating the two.

You are the one conflating the two.
Quote
There is nothing to any of the accusations as I wrote earlier.

Nobody who doesn't come forward with the grievance or problem or accusation at the time of occurrence deserves even less respect than the orange man you hate so much.

Used to be that speaking your voice, even in the face of fear, was behavior that was admired.

That is incredibly harsh and judgmental. Someone who doesn't immediately report a rape is worse than the actual rapist? Seriously?
Not worse.

Equal to, yes...
In any case, this is just you making your (bizarre) case that the accusers are morally reprehensible, not that they aren't credible. My position, to rephrase it a bit, is that if we could look at this long list of accusers and suppose that they're all just lying because Trump is so controversial and has such fierce opposition, then we should logically wonder why other controversial politicians haven't been plagued by similar cases of lying women. Where are Boris Johnson's accusers? David Cameron's? George W. Bush's? Mitch McConnell's?
Why would you need accusing women when you have so much else to choose from with which to attack these dolts you offer...

Could be they are closet fags in the case of the UK...

In the case of the US contestants you offer, just plain stupid.

Regardless, Tara Reid actually filed a complaint...

Not surprising no one has a clue where the paper trail went...as of now...

But just give it time...reality TV will make the surprising discovery just in time to do nothing about it...
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: totallackey on April 16, 2020, 10:14:01 AM
TotalLackey totally lacks an understanding in sexual assault victim psychology.
Actually I understand how and when these types of cards are played and why they are dealt.
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Post by: Lord Dave on April 16, 2020, 02:50:17 PM
TotalLackey totally lacks an understanding in sexual assault victim psychology.
Actually I understand how and when these types of cards are played and why they are dealt.
And yet say a victim not reporting is just as bad as the rapist.

Somehow I don't believe you.  Please remember, most rape victims are not male prisoners.