[Vindictus]

Whether a conclusion has been reached or not is irrelevant. There is evidence suggesting early Jews were indigenous Canaanites. There is no evidence suggesting anything the Bible claims is true. Going with one because of personal predispositions is very retarted.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Whether a conclusion has been reached or not is irrelevant. There is evidence suggesting early Jews were indigenous Canaanites. There is no evidence suggesting anything the Bible claims is true. Going with one because of personal predispositions is very retarted.

And there is cotradictory evidence saying they are not. Anyone who insists on one, deliberate misspelling of a word he knows to be wrong is  an idiot. Two, anyone anyone who reads into evidence, especially contradictory evidence, a thing which isn't there is a schmuck. The fact that Israelite stuff looks similar to Canaanite stuff is because they borrowed ideas from their neighbours even though they shouldn't have. God punished them harshly as a result. But tell me: who is the tard here? The one who who can't spell 'retarded' and takes uncertain "scholarship" for truth , or the one who actually uses his brain? I realise you haven't got one of those, but still... And I gave you evidence from as far back as 1950 that helped prove the Exodus case. So...

[Rama Set]

You spelt "truth" trth! Wat a retart.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

I won't dispute that I misspelled some stuff. But I was on phonernet (ie, Internet on the phone, that is hard to see, and harder to type because of the small size), which is easy to make mistakes on, vs a person deliberately misspelling things he knows to be incorrect.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

And I do find it interesting that I am the only person to be banned here even though I have been called a "retart" here by several persons. How is that less of an insult than anything I have said? Would someone please explain that to me?

[Blanko]

Your first mistake is thinking it's a misspelling of "retard", which it is not.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

Well, whatever it is, it is used the same way, so it might as well be.

[Blanko]

Fine. Vindictus and Rama Set, please refrain from calling people retarted. You have been warmed.

That oughta do it.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

Actually, no, that doesn't really do it. They should be banned. But then, to be fair, I guess that since I am still here, albeit as Yonah, as long as they obey the warning, then I should be happy. Fair enough.

[Blanko]

No, people get warned before they get banned. You have already been banned, so you don't get warnings.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

As often as they have been calling me "retarted", they should have gotten about six or seven warnings by now. But don't worry about it. Its no big deal. I'm still here, and life goes on.

[markjo]

Anyone who insists on one, deliberate misspelling of a word he knows to be wrong is  an idiot.

What does it say about someone who refuses to acknowledge and go with a running gag?

[Rushy]

What does it say about someone who refuses to acknowledge and go with a running gag?

That doesn't apply to Yaakov. He is doing pretty well at following a running gag that has been going for thousands of years.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

It says that "running gags" have no place in intellectual conversation. Such things are base, and should be avoided between persons who wish to be classified as able to hold conversation above the level of children. I have no patience with such things outside the bathroom or other such places where they belong. In this case it is not potty-talk, admittedly. But it is talk fit only for the mental hospital where one tries to keep things light-hearted so one does NOT go stark raving crazy. It might also be talk fit for the elementary school, or possibly for the Special Education Room, again, where one also does not want to go completely crazy due to behavioural disorders.

And although I sound critical, I have the right to be. I have been in mental hospitals, as a patient, and have no shame about admitting it. When it comes down to admitting it, guess what, people? Shit happens in life. I was there due to mood disorders, rather than intellectual or low IQ issues, or things of that nature, but still...

In fact, my IQ is EXTREMELY high,as I am sure some of yours are. But along with that frequently comes the Autism, the Bipolar Disorder 1, the Psychotic Features, and all the bullshit that that stuff comes along with. Before you start being treated for it, you usually go through years of shall we say, "self-treatment". In my case, that was severe alcoholism, downing HUGE amounts of hard liquor, to the point that now I can't even smell the stuff without wanting it. I am fine with being around beer and wine, but the hard stuff...

So, no, I don't like the "running gag" juvenile bullshit that should be avoided in adult conversations unless you are trying to keep things light. We are attempting (at I thought we were) to have an intellectual conversation. If I am incorrect about that, perhaps I should be informed now. At least I shall then know what to expect and not to expect from the discussion. And no, to answer the invariable question, I haven't been psychotic in over six years, and that diagnosis has now been removed from my chart. The others do remain.

IRUSH, you follow a running gag that speaks volumes just in terms of your abilities, or rather, the lack thereof, to communicate. The difference between you and me is that the Jews will be here long after you and your ilk have disappeared from the history books and been forgotten about. I think I have done very well in this thread of making atheists look rather foolish, actually, especially given that it has been me against about six of you. Its pretty bad when six can't win against one. Well, keep trying. Its entertaining for me. And gives me something to do when I am not otherwise occupied...

[Rushy]

That you think a discussion necessitates a winner and a loser be designated seems oddly defensive.

Furthermore, your attitude would lead me to ask again, do you think you will be rewarded in any way for your behavior during your life?

[markjo]

It says that "running gags" have no place in intellectual conversation.

  You're looking for an intellectual conversation on a web site that contends that there is a word wide conspiracy to hide the fact that the earth is flat?

[beardo]

Being a cunt towards gentiles is always rewarding

[Yonah ben Amittai]

That you think a discussion necessitates a winner and a loser be designated seems oddly defensive.

Furthermore, your attitude would lead me to ask again, do you think you will be rewarded in any way for your behavior during your life?

Even the question is absurd when speaking to a Jew. That is NOT how we conceive of Observance. A Jew is Observant by virtue of the fact that God told him to be. Whether there is reward in the end is beside the point. There are some Jews who don't believe in the Afterlife at all, and yet, they are as Observant as any other Jew. Why? Because God in the Torah commanded that they be so. Whether I personally believe in the Afterlife is, as I said, also irrelevant. Whether I do or do not in no way changes the fact that I am obligated by God to be Observant. And for you to ask the question implies two things. One, it implies that you do not comprehend Judaism in the slightest, but are trying to think of it in Christian terms, which is a catastrophically foolish mistake. Two, it implies that you would invade my personal privacy on the subject in a manner that is thoroughly rude and disrespectful. The reason it is disrespectful is that you do it with malicious motives. I am not a fool. I know full well that you ask with intentions of making me look the fool. Either way I answer you will attempt (granted, unsuccessfully, but nevertheless) to come up with a shot below the belt.

So, suffice it to say that a Jew follows Torah because he is expected to. His belief in the Afterlife or lack thereof is beside the point. The majority of Jews do believe in such, but even their beliefs about the Afterlife are not monolithic. Some believe in a Paradise at Judgement Day (I have discussed this before), some believe in reincarnation, some believe in other ideas, and some don't believe in the Afterlife at all.

I would encourage you, if you are interested, to go online, and Google the concept "Jewish views of the Afterlife". There are some good resources there. What my views happen to be are my own personal business. But suffice it to say that they have no bearing on the fact that I follow Torah. I do it irrespective of the concept of reward or lack thereof. I follow Torah because I am a Jew. God gave us a Covenant, and we agreed to it. We do our part, he does his. The eternal consequences of this are irrelevant. It is what happens in THIS world, in my life, and in the life of all the House of Israel, that matters, both now, and in future generations.

[garygreen]

Just to be sure I have this correctly: the measure of your intelligence is your willingness to follow the prescriptions of an ancient text merely because the authors claim to have been inspired by God?  That's the thing that you think demonstrates your intellectual superiority over the rest of the people on this forum?

I mean, at least Christians and Muslims and whatnot are all acting as they do for rational incentives like eternal reward.  Their logic is valid even if it isn't sound.  Your rationale for obeying the prescriptions of the Torah appears to stop at "because it tells me to."   

[Yonah ben Amittai]

Just to be sure I have this correctly: the measure of your intelligence is your willingness to follow the prescriptions of an ancient text merely because the authors claim to have been inspired by God?  That's the thing that you think demonstrates your intellectual superiority over the rest of the people on this forum?

I mean, at least Christians and Muslims and whatnot are all acting as they do for rational incentives like eternal reward.  Their logic is valid even if it isn't sound.  Your rationale for obeying the prescriptions of the Torah appears to stop at "because it tells me to."

Wow. Very rarely have I seen a person totally fail to comprehend logic. I never said there wasn't reward involved. It just isn't the kind of reward that most people, including you, would recognise. We are Jews. We saw God on Mt. Sinai. Its not that Moses claimed to be inspired. Its that we know that 2 million people, our ancestors, saw God, and heard him speak. And no, I am not about to get into that argument with you about that so don't even go there. It is in both our written and oral history, so there you are.

We know we have a Covenant with God. Said Covenant promises certain responses from the Deity if we do X. If we do X, he does Y. But if you read the Torah, there is no reference to an Afterlife. X and Y are all things that occur in this life. Now, the later Prophets and Writings do refer to what could be construed as an Afterlife. Or not, depending on interpretation.

I choose not to tell you what my interpretation is. I have one, I assure you. But it doesn't matter what it is. I would still study and follow Torah even if I didn't. Just the fact that God created us and provides for all our needs, and has seen fit to bless my life is enough for me to know that following Torah is a good idea. I have deeply personal reasons for saying that, which I shall not discuss here, but there you are.