[Yaakov ben Avraham]

And your points being? I am free to disagree with the judiciary in any way I wish. I merely pointed out that Israel can't be accused of being big bad colonisers when their own juduciary, rightly or wrongly, allows "Palestinians" recourse in the system. Frankly, I don't think it should. "Palestinians" are not citizens. They should be treated as occupied until such time as they can be deported from Greater Israel.

[Lord Dave]

And your points being? I am free to disagree with the judiciary in any way I wish. I merely pointed out that Israel can't be accused of being big bad colonisers when their own juduciary, rightly or wrongly, allows "Palestinians" recourse in the system. Frankly, I don't think it should. "Palestinians" are not citizens. They should be treated as occupied until such time as they can be deported from Greater Israel.

And the penalties of wrongful deaths are?

[Rama Set]

And your points being? I am free to disagree with the judiciary in any way I wish.

That does not make your position justified.

I merely pointed out that Israel can't be accused of being big bad colonisers when their own juduciary, rightly or wrongly, allows "Palestinians" recourse in the system.

Just because you give recourse to your victims does not make the victimization any less real.

Frankly, I don't think it should. "Palestinians" are not citizens. They should be treated as occupied until such time as they can be deported from Greater Israel.

There are still proper and improper ways to treat people, and Israel far too frequently is on the wrong side of that line.

[Ghost of V]

And the penalties of wrongful deaths are?

Rightful death.

[Particle Person]

[trigger warning: pro-semitism]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nazi-ss-cemetery-desecrated-by-prosemitic-graffiti,520/

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

And your points being? I am free to disagree with the judiciary in any way I wish.

That does not make your position justified.

I merely pointed out that Israel can't be accused of being big bad colonisers when their own juduciary, rightly or wrongly, allows "Palestinians" recourse in the system.

Just because you give recourse to your victims does not make the victimization any less real.

Frankly, I don't think it should. "Palestinians" are not citizens. They should be treated as occupied until such time as they can be deported from Greater Israel.

There are still proper and improper ways to treat people, and Israel far too frequently is on the wrong side of that line.

And of course, the "Palestinians" are NEVER on the wrong side of that line when they launch rockets at civilians, dig tunnels with cement intended for schools and homes (said tunnels being used to kidnap and kill Israelis), use their own civilians as shields, etc. Shall I go on? And of course our govt. is stupid enough to want to rebuild Gaza, when in fact, we should be applauding Israel for eliminating it as a threat. And Israel itself is too damned soft for its own good. They are willing to attempt to make peace with an inveterate enemy who STILL, in their founding charter, calls for their destruction. There will be no peace so long as Hamas exists.

The fact is, and you can argue this all you want, "Palestinians" are one step up from lemurs, our closest relatives in the lesser primate world, which live only in Madagascar, or chimpanzees, our closest relatives in the greater primate world. They are lucky that they can even enunciate well enough to talk.

Lets face it. Even other Arabs despise them. They are considered the pond scum of the Arab world. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that this site has Censors, I would use another adjective that is more descriptive, but I think I would get a swift ban, so I shall avoid doing so.

That aside, other Arabs are disgusted by them. The Saudis are repulsed by them. The only reason they have friends in the Arab world at all is because the Jews exist, and the Arabs hate the Jews more than they hate the "Palestinians". In general, I would say that the pure Arabs may hate us, but they respect us more than they do the "Palestinians", at least in terms of our honour and dignity as human beings.

The pure Arabs from Arabia know full well that "Palestinians" are a mixed group of mongrels, partly Arab, and partly Canaanite. The Canaanites, if you read your Hebrew Bible (the "Old Testament" to you non-Jews), were a group of people who lived in the ancient land of Canaan (modern-day Eretz Israel) prior to the coming of the Israelites, and had absolutely savage religious practices that included human sacrifice, temple prostitution (both female and male), and other extremely vile activities. Their nations were destroyed by the Israelites upon their entry to Israel under Joshua and succeeding military leaders.

In fact, it is highly likely that "Palestinians" are descendants of Amalek, who is recorded in the Bible (which is a decent history book if nothing else, for you atheists out there) as having mercilessly attacked the Israelites on more than one occasion. In return, God gave the Hebrews a commandment to destroy every Amalekite from the earth, which, if they could be isolated today, would still be an active commandment. However, because the "Palestinians" are not Amalekites per se, being descended in part from them, and also from others, the commandment cannot be enforced on them as such. Deportation is sufficient.

But, back to my main point. Other Arabs know that "Palestinians" are descended largely from Canaanite trash, and then also from  Arabs. But they are largely Canaanite. And the Jews, however hated they may be by Arabs, are at least monotheists with some sense of honour, unlike Canaanites.

So, lets NOT pull any punches. I don't like Arabs in any form. I've never disputed that. But, and this is a big but, at least the Arabs from Arabia have some level of dignity. The "Palestinian" descendant of Canaanite filth has none. They are fit only to be hewers of wood and drawers of water, as the Bible puts it. This reference is later in the Prophets, where the Canaanites are also listed as the sons of Esau, Jacob's brother.

So, in my opinion, "Palestinians" can either leave, or be servants. Their choice. I don't care which one they make, personally.

[Rama Set]

And of course, the "Palestinians" are NEVER on the wrong side of that line when they launch rockets at civilians, dig tunnels with cement intended for schools and homes (said tunnels being used to kidnap and kill Israelis), use their own civilians as shields, etc. Shall I go on?

No please.  This strawman should not continue!

And of course our govt. is stupid enough to want to rebuild Gaza, when in fact, we should be applauding Israel for eliminating it as a threat.

That's just because you are crazy though.

And Israel itself is too damned soft for its own good. They are willing to attempt to make peace with an inveterate enemy who STILL, in their founding charter, calls for their destruction.

It is scary that you think one of the most militaristic nations on the planet is too soft.

There will be no peace so long as Hamas exists.

Not with an attitude like that there won't.

The fact is, and you can argue this all you want, "Palestinians" are one step up from lemurs, our closest relatives in the lesser primate world, which live only in Madagascar, or chimpanzees, our closest relatives in the greater primate world. They are lucky that they can even enunciate well enough to talk.

Ok, please tell that to the KKK or whoever you associate with.

Lets face it. Even other Arabs despise them. They are considered the pond scum of the Arab world. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that this site has Censors, I would use another adjective that is more descriptive, but I think I would get a swift ban, so I shall avoid doing so.

I don't know why you keep using convivial bonding to lessen the blow of your awful bigotry.  You are not fooling anyone that you are holding a reasonable position.

That aside, other Arabs are disgusted by them. The Saudis are repulsed by them. The only reason they have friends in the Arab world at all is because the Jews exist, and the Arabs hate the Jews more than they hate the "Palestinians". In general, I would say that the pure Arabs may hate us, but they respect us more than they do the "Palestinians", at least in terms of our honour and dignity as human beings.

What's that?  Oh right.  Bigot.

The pure Arabs from Arabia know full well that "Palestinians" are a mixed group of mongrels, partly Arab, and partly Canaanite. The Canaanites, if you read your Hebrew Bible (the "Old Testament" to you non-Jews), were a group of people who lived in the ancient land of Canaan (modern-day Eretz Israel) prior to the coming of the Israelites, and had absolutely savage religious practices that included human sacrifice, temple prostitution (both female and male), and other extremely vile activities. Their nations were destroyed by the Israelites upon their entry to Israel under Joshua and succeeding military leaders.

The bible says so?  Oh well it must be true.  Nuke them!

In fact, it is highly likely that "Palestinians" are descendants of Amalek,^{citation required} who is recorded in the Bible (which is a decent history book if nothing else, for you atheists out there) as having mercilessly attacked the Israelites on more than one occasion. In return, God gave the Hebrews a commandment to destroy every Amalekite from the earth, which, if they could be isolated today, would still be an active commandment. However, because the "Palestinians" are not Amalekites per se, being descended in part from them, and also from others, the commandment cannot be enforced on them as such. Deportation is sufficient.

But, back to my main point. Other Arabs know that "Palestinians" are descended largely from Canaanite trash, and then also from  Arabs. But they are largely Canaanite. And the Jews, however hated they may be by Arabs, are at least monotheists with some sense of honour, unlike Canaanites.

So, lets NOT pull any punches. I don't like Arabs in any form. I've never disputed that. But, and this is a big but, at least the Arabs from Arabia have some level of dignity. The "Palestinian" descendant of Canaanite filth has none. They are fit only to be hewers of wood and drawers of water, as the Bible puts it. This reference is later in the Prophets, where the Canaanites are also listed as the sons of Esau, Jacob's brother.

So, in my opinion, "Palestinians" can either leave, or be servants. Their choice. I don't care which one they make, personally.

Yes, we know you are an intolerant, cruel, vengeful and awful person.  Do you think it is related to being on diability in the American Mid-West?  I personally can imagine nothing more depressing.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

And of course, the "Palestinians" are NEVER on the wrong side of that line when they launch rockets at civilians, dig tunnels with cement intended for schools and homes (said tunnels being used to kidnap and kill Israelis), use their own civilians as shields, etc. Shall I go on?

No please.  This strawman should not continue!

It is not a straw man to state the truth.

And of course our govt. is stupid enough to want to rebuild Gaza, when in fact, we should be applauding Israel for eliminating it as a threat.

That's just because you are crazy though.

That is an ad hominem No response.

And Israel itself is too damned soft for its own good. They are willing to attempt to make peace with an inveterate enemy who STILL, in their founding charter, calls for their destruction.

It is scary that you think one of the most militaristic nations on the planet is too soft.

Israel is still attempting to make peace with people who want to destroy them. That is soft.

There will be no peace so long as Hamas exists.

Not with an attitude like that there won't.

Grow up.

The fact is, and you can argue this all you want, "Palestinians" are one step up from lemurs, our closest relatives in the lesser primate world, which live only in Madagascar, or chimpanzees, our closest relatives in the greater primate world. They are lucky that they can even enunciate well enough to talk.

Ok, please tell that to the KKK or whoever you associate with.

Since I am a Jew, I doubt the KKK would be overly fond of me.

Lets face it. Even other Arabs despise them. They are considered the pond scum of the Arab world. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that this site has Censors, I would use another adjective that is more descriptive, but I think I would get a swift ban, so I shall avoid doing so.

I don't know why you keep using convivial bonding to lessen the blow of your awful bigotry.  You are not fooling anyone that you are holding a reasonable position.

Ah, whatever.

That aside, other Arabs are disgusted by them. The Saudis are repulsed by them. The only reason they have friends in the Arab world at all is because the Jews exist, and the Arabs hate the Jews more than they hate the "Palestinians". In general, I would say that the pure Arabs may hate us, but they respect us more than they do the "Palestinians", at least in terms of our honour and dignity as human beings.

What's that?  Oh right.  Bigot.

Ad hominem.

The pure Arabs from Arabia know full well that "Palestinians" are a mixed group of mongrels, partly Arab, and partly Canaanite. The Canaanites, if you read your Hebrew Bible (the "Old Testament" to you non-Jews), were a group of people who lived in the ancient land of Canaan (modern-day Eretz Israel) prior to the coming of the Israelites, and had absolutely savage religious practices that included human sacrifice, temple prostitution (both female and male), and other extremely vile activities. Their nations were destroyed by the Israelites upon their entry to Israel under Joshua and succeeding military leaders.

The bible says so?  Oh well it must be true.  Nuke them!

Like I said, the Bible is a decent book of history, if nothing else.

In fact, it is highly likely that "Palestinians" are descendants of Amalek,^{citation required} who is recorded in the Bible (which is a decent history book if nothing else, for you atheists out there) as having mercilessly attacked the Israelites on more than one occasion. In return, God gave the Hebrews a commandment to destroy every Amalekite from the earth, which, if they could be isolated today, would still be an active commandment. However, because the "Palestinians" are not Amalekites per se, being descended in part from them, and also from others, the commandment cannot be enforced on them as such. Deportation is sufficient.

But, back to my main point. Other Arabs know that "Palestinians" are descended largely from Canaanite trash, and then also from  Arabs. But they are largely Canaanite. And the Jews, however hated they may be by Arabs, are at least monotheists with some sense of honour, unlike Canaanites.

So, lets NOT pull any punches. I don't like Arabs in any form. I've never disputed that. But, and this is a big but, at least the Arabs from Arabia have some level of dignity. The "Palestinian" descendant of Canaanite filth has none. They are fit only to be hewers of wood and drawers of water, as the Bible puts it. This reference is later in the Prophets, where the Canaanites are also listed as the sons of Esau, Jacob's brother.

So, in my opinion, "Palestinians" can either leave, or be servants. Their choice. I don't care which one they make, personally.

Yes, we know you are an intolerant, cruel, vengeful and awful person.  Do you think it is related to being on diability in the American Mid-West?  I personally can imagine nothing more depressing.

The last was also an ad hominem. You are just full of them today, aren't you. Schmuck.

[Lord Dave]

Kettle, meet pot.

Also, if your God can say its OK to wipe out a culture, why is it not OK for their God to do the same?  Seems like a double standard.

[Rama Set]

The last was also an ad hominem. You are just full of them today, aren't you. Schmuck.

There was not much to debate there.  Just a lot of things that you would not dare say in public.  What's a guy to do?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Well, as I said, the Amalekites, since they are no longer identifiable as a group, can no longer be eliminated. IF the "Palestinians" are in fact descended from Amalekites, then they are only partially so. Now, "Palestinians" DO claim to be descended from the pre-Israelite Canaanites. Its a stupid claim to make, since that claim makes them fall under biblical ban, deserving of elimination. This is of course, what happened under Joshua and following military leaders. As I said, the biblical narrative is fairly accurate as far as its history goes, even if you reject the supernatural explanations given in it.

So, given the claims they make, they put themselves deliberately under the ban, probably so they can curry favour with the world. The Bible is admittedly a pretty brutal text, given that it was written in the Bronze Age. The Qur'an is just AS brutal, perhaps even moreso, which it has even less excuse to be, given that it was written much later, in the 600s of the Christian Era.

I know of no Jew, including myself, who calls for full-scale extermination of the so-called "Palestinian" people, even though that is EXACTLY what Hamas wants to do to us, and says so right in their charter. They want the absolute destruction of Israel. And a common Muslim (particularly "Palestinian") statement in the Middle East that every Jew has grown up hearing is, "First the Saturday People, then the Sunday People." Anybody who doesn't believe this is either naive, or a complete blithering idiot, one of the two (on this board, I suspect its the latter).

Again, complete elimination is not the goal of any sane person, and certainly not that of any Jew, including me. The harshest thing that any Jew would advocate, and this is what I personally advocate, is deportation from Greater Israel. It should be pointed out that 85% of Israeli Jews have stated that they WANT peace. They would accept a "Palestinian" State in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, living in peace and security beside Israel. Personally, I think this is naive, but this is what 85% of Israeli Jews have said. I am not speaking of Israeli Arabs here, Muslim, Christian, or Druze, but only Jews.

Do I think they are out of their mind? Yes. Now, with the end of Operation Protective Edge, what is the current percentage of Israeli Jews that favour an independent "Palestinian" State? I don't know. That poll was taken before the rockets started flying, which I'll note occurred BEFORE Israel invaded the Gaza Strip. Of course, the tunnel activity had been going on for months.

So, I suggest you all quit your fucking whining. I have never heard so much bitching and belly-aching in my life. Grow the fuck up, get a life, and get into the real world. Israel is here to stay. The "Palestinians" will never have a state of their own because they don't want one. They would rather kill Jews. And as long as they hate Jews more than they love their own children and the future they could provide for those children, those children will have no future beyond that of throwing rocks and getting shot at. Shit happens.

[Vindictus]

But Israelites are also Canaanites.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Ah, not exactly. Abraham came from Ur originally. They lived in Canaan some time, and down to Egypt they went. Then out of Egypt, back to Canaan to conquer the Land. You really think you can give me a run for my money about biblical history? I would reconsider that if I we're you. You might end up looking very stupid.

[beardo]

Kettle, meet pot.

Also, if your God can say its OK to wipe out a culture, why is it not OK for their God to do the same?  Seems like a double standard.

cos there god doesn't real so herpy derp durr

[Lord Dave]

Ah, not exatly. Abraham came from Ur originally. They lived in Canaan some time, and down to Egypt they went. Then out of Egypt, back to Canaan to conquer the Land. You really think you can give me a run for my money about biblical history? I would reconsider that if I we're you. You might end up looking very stupid.

So his children and grand children were canninites.  So basically all Jews.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

The point being that Jews did not share the paganism of the Canaanites, except when they BORROWED from the Canaanites, and fell under the ban of their own God, and suffered as a result. So, as long as the Hebrews remained faithful to the God of Abraham, they remained prosperous, and defeated the backward, primitive Canaanite tribes of land. That would include the ancestors of the "Palestinians".

[Vindictus]

A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has arguably found no evidence that can be directly related to the Exodus narrative of an Egyptian captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness, leading to the suggestion that Iron Age Israel—the kingdoms of Judah and Israel—has its origins in Canaan, not Egypt:[6][7] The culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult-objects are those of the Canaanite god El, the pottery remains in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet used is early Canaanite. Almost the sole marker distinguishing the "Israelite" villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones, although whether this can be taken as an ethnic marker or is due to other factors remains a matter of dispute.

tl;dr early Jews were Canaanites

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Yes, I read that myself. And it really depends on what you choose to believe. Either you can accept the VERY limited archaeological work that has been done, and which I believe will eventually be reversed with further work on the subject. There is almost NO evidence either way. The  "modern day liberal biblical scholars" seem to think that that is the last word on the matter. Note that the text says the following: I shall quote the entire thing, and mark in bold the aspects to which I point.

"A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has ARGUABLY found no evidence that can be DIRECTLY related to the Exodus narrative of an Egyptian captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness, leading to the SUGGESTION that Iron Age Israel—the kingdoms of Judah and Israel—has its origins in Canaan, not Egypt:[6][7] The culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult-objects are those of the Canaanite god El, the pottery remains in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet used is early Canaanite. Almost the sole marker distinguishing the "Israelite" villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones, although whether this can be taken as an ethnic marker or is due to other factors remains a matter of dispute."

Such words as "arguably" and "directly" and "suggestion" in no way demonstrate that you have a strong argument for a point of view!

Do observe the following, quoted from the Pocket Bible Handbook by Henry H. Halley, 18th Edition, 1948, Second Printing, 1950, p. 117.

"Chapter 5. Moses' First Demand on Pharaoh. Pharaoh was insolent. He ordered the taskmasters to lay heavier burdens on the Israelites,  requiring them to make the same number of bricks, and yet gather their own straw, 10-19. ARCHAEOLOGICAL NOTE: The Bricks of Pithom. Naville, 1883, and Kyle 1908, found and Pithom , the lower courses of brick filled with good chopped straw; the middle courses with less straw, which was stubble plucked up by the root; and that the upper courses were brick of pure clay having no straw whatever. What an amazing confirmation of the Exodus account!"

Although I find the author's Evangelicalism distasteful, and his emotionalism in the last sentence even moreso, he does have a valid point to make. So, it is quite clear that there are some things that don't add up in the overall archaeological record. We DON"T have all the information, and what we do have contradicts itself. So, until we have all that we need, I choose to accept the Torah account. I'll take Moses over incomplete, contradicting secular records any day.

[Vindictus]

I'll take a flawed religious document over modern science. Makes perfect sense.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

As I indicated, "modern science" hasn't come to a conclusion. You  and your ancestors might swing from your tails, but I don't. What part of "contradictory conclusions" does your peabrain not understand? Seriously, did you get past the Third Grade academically in grammar school, or did they just feel sorry for you?