21

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: July 15, 2017, 04:27:43 AM »

model29, I thought about your experiment a little, and I believe that I could modify what you propose and make it fairly accurate.

1st, you need to know the sun's elevation angle. This can be determined by looking at your own shadow and measuring it... might have to have a friend's help, then use some geometry to calculate the sun's angle (opposite angle to personal height or adjacent angle to shadow length). 2nd you will need a protractor. By setting the sun at the 0 degree reference point, estimate the moon's angle on the protractor. 3rd, use the protractor again, but orient it 90 degrees with the horizon being 0 degrees, and once again estimate the moon's angle.

Now in your hallway, set up a flash light (sun) above your line of sight at the angle calculated above, set up your moon at the angles recorded in 2 and 3 above, be sure to stand in the appropriate spot so flashlight and ball/moon match the recorded information and that your flashlight in the darkened hall is shining at the ball/moon. This should get you the appropriate phase angle viewed by the real moon above.

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Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: July 15, 2017, 03:56:16 AM »

Again, I do not have a wide angle camera lens, so cannot perform this experiment myself, so am asking the help of someone who does...

No special lenses or waiting for certain phases of the moon to occur are needed.

Do you have access to a room or hallway with straight walls?  A ball with a line around it (representing the moon and it's day/night side) and another ball representing the sun will also aid in this experiment.  Secure the 'sun' to one upper corner of the room, and the 'moon' to the next corner with one half facing the 'sun' (line should be perpendicular to the wall/ceiling seam that runs between moon ball and sun ball)

Stand a few feet from wall partway between moon and sun balls and look up at them. 

Does it look similar to actual moon phase angle?

The one component your ball theory avoids is the possibility of looking at the balls from a plane other than the plane of the balls. In a 3d realm, you must consider the third dimension in your equation or you will deceive yourself.

You can design your experiment, I have defined one I believe will show that most of these 'phase do not match' issues are due to looking at the sun and the moon through an oblique angle to the plane of the horizon of earth which will throw off the phase angle.

23

Flat Earth Community / Re: Our universe confined within a dome?

« on: July 14, 2017, 11:48:44 AM »

Yes,,,   the clouds do look lovely when they are illuminated below,,    Have you learned the concept of refraction yet?
Perhaps it may do you well to research what you say completely and not rely on others to do it for you. 😉   Even if it is just your hobby...    I have been on the trail of lies and deception for 30 years now and not in the habit of cherry picking my information..

yes to refraction. It actually bends light the opposite direction that FE says and not as much.
As for cherry picking, if you or anyone is attempting to discern truth, how is that different than cherry picking? Cherries are best at a certain stage of being ripe. I understand you are trying to discern the truth to the best of your ability as am I. But if you are doing research on your own and not relying on others to do it for you before saying anything... where is your data on how the suns rays refract enough in a FE scenario that they bend out and away from the earth plane enough to create the illusion of sunrise and sunset? What is the rate of refraction in different densities? What is the density of air at 10 miles above the earth? 20, 30, 40, 60, 80, 100?

If air refracts the sun's rays that much, how can the two sticks method of determining sun's distance even be close to being reliable to judging the sun's distance from the earth? What other method has been used to verify the sun at 3000 miles above the earth besides the two sticks method?

If you use the bible as your roadmap,,   may I suggest that you stick to the early king James version as this is the closest available to the true scriptures,,,   from there,   the bible messages have been doctored quite badly and can be very misleading.

I use multiple sources to research scripture meaning and intent, including original word definition. I have seen the 'evidence that the King James version is the truest to the original, have looked at other version's method of interpretation, have compared them to original language definitions and found that New American Standard is a bit more accurate than the King James... but I still go and do my own digging into information available, even then... so if the scriptures have been doctored badly, how do you even use them at all?

I think that you fail to understand that if we are made to believe that we just randomly popped up out of a pool of gloop on a spinning ball in a vast void of space and then evoluted from monkeys,    That would also make us believe in our souls that we are an accident....
I really do not subscribe to that suggestion in any way as this would negate the god you believe in....

Nope, I do not believe in random accident evolution theory. I believe that if evolution is a good guess at discerning the evidence in the earth, that God directed it. Natural selection may work for some things, but I see it as too weak of a 'force' to 'create' all of the amazing life that we see. My faith is not strong enough to believe in natural selection/mutation being joint creators of all DNA, RNA, ADP, ATP, ATPase and all the wonderful little machines that make up the chemical equations that make life work.

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Flat Earth Community / Re: Our universe confined within a dome?

« on: July 13, 2017, 09:45:46 PM »

I believe in God and the Bible. But I feel that God's revelation of the creation to Moses does not reflect the full truth since language has come a long way since the time of Moses. The word count of the Hebrew language was much lower then than English and many modern languages have now. So I feel that Moses did the best he could to relate the revelation to his people that God gave him using the tools at hand. Of course there is still much that we can learn of the nature of the relationship of God's creation to its Creator by studying the Genesis story, but I do not see Genesis 1 as a science lesson.

No, our universe is not confined to a dome with the sun describing a circle around the equator with gradually decreasing or increasing circles depending on the seasons...

No, I am not on NASA's payroll. I repair equipment in a cookie factory... a very science oriented job to be sure, but nothing to do with space. That's just my hobby.

The Bible is my roadmap to my relationship with God with Jesus as my savior. The Bible is not a science textbook, but rather a guide for wisdom about how to treat my fellow man and how very much God loves me and the rest of humankind (refer to John 3:16&17 for starters... but I won't do your research for you.  )

The solar system holds influence over me as far as what clothes I wear based upon season and location on the globe, but that's about it.

25

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: July 13, 2017, 09:03:52 PM »

I wish I had a wide angle lens. My thinking is that if instead of using the horizon as the plane of reference which most humans prefer to do, instead, put the roughly half moon on the far right or left with the phase line oriented up/down in the view finder and the sun on the opposite side of the view from that of the moon. This should orient the camera's wide angle plane (I will refer to this as bisecting the horizontal view of the camera) to that of the same plane as described by A (sun) B (earth) and C (moon). Then also take the same picture with the earth's horizon bisecting the horizontal view of the camera. Compare the phase angle to that of the 2D representation of the sun/moon most direct line. If I am right, the first picture will show a distinctly different phase angle of the moon than the second.

Where we get into trouble on this earth in looking for the phase to match the sun's perceived angle is by forgetting that the horizon is a plane which does not include any but the earth itself except at either sunset or moonset, or on very rare occasions where both occur simultaneously.

Again, I do not have a wide angle camera lens, so cannot perform this experiment myself, so am asking the help of someone who does... if I have been unclear in describing the experiment, please ask for clarification.

26

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: July 12, 2017, 03:49:34 AM »

Nicely done, JHeltzer. 

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Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: July 11, 2017, 07:13:08 PM »

Nobulart, your shadows on the 3rd (woman on the beach far right) and 4th pictures (awning shadow far left portion of the house on the right) do not line up with the sun, how can we trust that the lens distortion ... or whatever... isn't so bad that drawing a line from point a to point b on any of them are true to life representations?

28

Flat Earth Theory / Flat Earth Sun and Daylight animation on Wiki/ Horizon/ Sunrise and Sunset

« on: July 08, 2017, 06:34:45 PM »

In some regard, older flat earth models made more sense to me except that time-zones and sunrise/ sunset/ day and night does not work at all with them (having traveled abroad and spoken with family in vastly different time-zones has made it abundantly clear that the sun definitely does not shine across the entire plane of the earth... if that is what it is).

I see that the animation of the day and night cycling across the earth where someone has made a valiant effort to explain the action of day/night across the plane of the earth... simplistic because it does not show the lunar 30 day cycle, but it at least is a good effort.

So how does FE explain that the sun and moon appear to set without a curvature? Along with that, I have seen a mountain cast an inverted shadow at sunrise across the face of a cloud, not to mention watching the shadow of night chasing my airplane as I fly from east to west (by chasing I mean that every time I look it gets closer to the airplane). If the earth is flat, what is casting that shadow where there is clear definition of night and day that is darker farther east on the ground than it is on the clouds behind the airplane.

I would think that by looking at that animated model of the sun moving around the planar earth that whatever is casting the shadow would be more like a shroud near the light source, therefore since the sun is setting (again... how does the sun set in this model without curvature) in the West, the ground to the east would remain light longer since the rays of the sun travel from sun (in the West) toward the East.