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Messages - RoundLurker

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21

If circumnavigation is too tough, it can be attributed to weather conditions.


What about those times when circumnavigation is totally possible? 
https://www.yachtingworld.com/voyages/sailing-antarctica-record-breaking-voyage-around-southern-continent-123341

EDIT:  Apologies that's perhaps slightly off topic.

22
Flat Earth Investigations / UK to Australia & back
« on: February 06, 2020, 11:01:33 AM »
I'm based in the UK.  In April I'll be travelling to Australia.

Depending on your outlook on life, I'll be the other side of the globe or opposite ends of the same side of the coin for a couple of weeks.

Are there any observations I can make that would be in anyway helpful to this forum?  Moon phases, stars, attractiveness of the locals etc

If not, meh, I'll have a BBQ and enjoy my holiday.

23
Flat Earth Community / Re: Media Resistance
« on: February 05, 2020, 12:17:07 PM »
Regarding the OP, have you ever thought that maybe Flat Earth is fought for hiding another conspiracy and diverting people attention from lousy monetary policies and global warming?
What other conspiracy?

The "NASA conspiracy theory" which voids the many thousands of photographs, videos, personal accounts, data sheets, research papers, documentaries (etc) as evidence refuting a FE.

What's your view?
NASA has released actual photographs?

I thought they were in the in the business of releasing images...

Ok, thank you for that correction. It was extremely valuable feedback.  Images, not photographs, for the record.  Do you believe the images are faked?

EDIT: Just saw your last sentence... perhaps we could chat here: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=15828.0

24
Flat Earth Community / Re: Media Resistance
« on: February 05, 2020, 11:42:04 AM »
Regarding the OP, have you ever thought that maybe Flat Earth is fought for hiding another conspiracy and diverting people attention from lousy monetary policies and global warming?
What other conspiracy?

The "NASA conspiracy theory" which voids the many thousands of photographs, videos, personal accounts, data sheets, research papers, documentaries (etc) as evidence refuting a FE.

What's your view?

25
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 04, 2020, 03:10:26 PM »
I’m saying as much as I watched the moon move across the night sky. I haven’t once seen a star disappear behind the moon. And if you answer honestly, I’m pretty sure you haven’t either.

This is the event you're describing (lunar occultation):
https://time.com/4185018/watch-star-disappear-moon/
https://www.space.com/31609-moon-block-star-aldebaran-tuesday.html

Here's another example from the University of Hawai'i:
https://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~barnes/ASTR110L_F03/lunaroccultation.html

As a slight aside, Aristotle recorded the Moon covering Mars on April 4, 357 B.C:
https://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/celestial-objects-to-watch/occultations/

I've never investigated this personally as I don't believe it warrants it - but if you'd like to disprove it, read up on the equipment required and record the outcome for us?

26
Flat Earth Community / Re: Media Resistance
« on: February 03, 2020, 01:42:54 PM »
...but the principle of people believing wrong things can be dangerous and should be corrected.
Could you elaborate on why my belief in a flat earth is dangerous to you or others?

If you put back in the second part of the quote you plucked from its original context (and the first part, for that matter), it would make more sense.  AATW gave an example of how incorrect beliefs becoming mainstream can become dangerous. Anti-vax lunatics, in this case. 
 
But staying with your line of questioning... FET often (perhaps inevitably) relies on a belief in a global conspiracy. There are people out there who are more susceptible to conspiracy theories than others. They may even be inclined to act rashly to expose it. They may become a danger to themselves or others. Thus, incorrect beliefs without critical opposition can be dangerous.
I read AATW's entire response and found the context of anti-vaxxers to be the dangerous behavior; that is why I took I removed the context in my quotation to offer another chance for explanation. He offered (and you didn't either) zero explanation why my belief in FET is dangerous to him or you.

Yet, you find it dangerous?

Lumping things together like that is just stereotyping, something less-learned people often engage in and something that ought to be avoided.

I believe it is utter nonsense to state FET relies on a global conspiracy.

AATW said false beliefs can be dangerous and gave an explanation. I attempted to expand on the point to continue the conversation - although I'm certain you're bright enough to understand my general direction you'd rather just go NOPE, NAH, NU-UH to win some playground points. Fine. I guess I could resort to referencing Mad Mike as being a danger to himself, but I won't.

Perhaps this isn't the thread to do it, but I'd be interested in hearing your view on NASA RE: a FET without a global conspiracy.  I've noticed you're a big fan of calling things nonsense without substantiating so I'd be interested to hear your view - maybe we take it to the lounge?

Edit:  Adding in "WHY MY" and "DANGEROUS TO YOU" is a straw man. No one claimed your specific beliefs were dangerous to us personally.

27
Flat Earth Community / Re: Media Resistance
« on: February 03, 2020, 01:24:08 PM »
...but the principle of people believing wrong things can be dangerous and should be corrected.
Could you elaborate on why my belief in a flat earth is dangerous to you or others?

If you put back in the second part of the quote you plucked from its original context (and the first part, for that matter), it would make more sense.  AATW gave an example of how incorrect beliefs becoming mainstream can become dangerous. Anti-vax lunatics, in this case. 

But staying with your line of questioning... FET often (perhaps inevitably) relies on a belief in a global conspiracy. There are people out there who are more susceptible to conspiracy theories than others. They may even be inclined to act rashly to expose it. They may become a danger to themselves or others. Thus, incorrect beliefs without critical opposition can be dangerous.



28
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 03, 2020, 10:24:56 AM »
Yah agree, should have started my response with "Us roundies reckon that..."

This section of the wiki I linked to covers the distant stars point, and is vaguely interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occultation#Occultations_by_the_Moon

I guess anecdotally OP hasn't seen this for him/herself because, as you say, the moon is much brighter. Probably like trying to see flashlight 50 meters away with car headlights in your eyes. 


29
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 03, 2020, 09:52:46 AM »
How is it possible that the moon doesn’t pass in front of any stars. I kind of understand how it works on a flat Earth. But I’m curious what’s the explanation for it on a round earth. And if it does, I’ve never seen it happen.  And I have watched the moon move across the night sky many of times.

The moon passes in front of the sun (our closest star) during a solar eclipse. This is visible from somewhere on Earth roughly every 18 months, but from any one location, total eclipses take place once in several hundred years ish.

For other stars, this is referred to as occultation.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occultation

30
Flat Earth Community / Re: Request for questions: Steven Smith/KISS radio
« on: January 31, 2020, 03:51:03 PM »
How does it make you feel that a growing population of the planet consider your passion and your life's work to be a complete sham?
This is a good question because it is eating Buzz Aldrin from the inside out.
Well aren't you sweet.

31
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Question about the Ice Wall
« on: January 31, 2020, 03:49:28 PM »
Quote
Because the implication here is that the coast isn't stopping explorers getting onto the land and exploring it. The 'ice wall' isn't a blocker and people have gone beyond it.
Nobody is arguing against that. Why are you stating obvious things that we've already claimed and acting as if they were somehow insightful?

We aren't acting as if they were somehow insightful. We are asking for proof that this wall goes around the entire flat earth. Showing a section that looks like a wall, and appears to be around 200 feet long, is not showing us that this goes around the entirety of the world. Can you show us an explorer that has traversed the entire length of this wall, and shown the total number of miles or kilometers traveled? Can you show us photos taken from a plane of it? The one that was shown on a forum, the wall appeared to be less than 100 feet high, and it kept curving away from them, when it should have been curving toward them. They even showed a piece of video where they looked back at it, and it was curving away from them, as it would if it were a continent, not a wall encircling the world. Surely someone has navigated this wall, as it would be the ultimate proof that you are correct, and would be relatively easy to do.
The picture I posted clearly shows an ice wall curving toward the photographer.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? You can't be suggesting that a few meters of curvature in a photo proves/disproves anything. I can share a picture showing the curvature of the Earth but it adds no value here.

I have presented a first-hand accounts of people claiming to circumnavigate Antartica corroborating a RE theory.  You've presented a photo of a wall of ice which demonstrates nothing except that there's ice at the antarctic. And, by the way, if you're suggesting that Cook's account somehow supports your theory I totally reject that.
Reject away.

Cook was there, wrote his account, and it stands.

The picture I provided shows curvature toward the photographer, something the member I responded to in my post claimed didn't exist.

Yes, it stands as an account. It doesn't suggest a flat Earth (not even indirectly), but I suspect you know that.

Likewise, I suspect you know that the photo you shared doesn't prove that many thousands of miles of ice wall curves around the photographer, as the curve would be imperceptible at that distance.

Do you have anything to say on the first-person accounts I shared?  If not, I guess this conversation has run its course.

32
Flat Earth Community / Re: Request for questions: Steven Smith/KISS radio
« on: January 31, 2020, 10:28:47 AM »
How does it make you feel that a growing population of the planet consider your passion and your life's work to be a complete sham?

33
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Question about the Ice Wall
« on: January 31, 2020, 10:11:55 AM »
Quote
Because the implication here is that the coast isn't stopping explorers getting onto the land and exploring it. The 'ice wall' isn't a blocker and people have gone beyond it.
Nobody is arguing against that. Why are you stating obvious things that we've already claimed and acting as if they were somehow insightful?

We aren't acting as if they were somehow insightful. We are asking for proof that this wall goes around the entire flat earth. Showing a section that looks like a wall, and appears to be around 200 feet long, is not showing us that this goes around the entirety of the world. Can you show us an explorer that has traversed the entire length of this wall, and shown the total number of miles or kilometers traveled? Can you show us photos taken from a plane of it? The one that was shown on a forum, the wall appeared to be less than 100 feet high, and it kept curving away from them, when it should have been curving toward them. They even showed a piece of video where they looked back at it, and it was curving away from them, as it would if it were a continent, not a wall encircling the world. Surely someone has navigated this wall, as it would be the ultimate proof that you are correct, and would be relatively easy to do.
The picture I posted clearly shows an ice wall curving toward the photographer.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? You can't be suggesting that a few meters of curvature in a photo proves/disproves anything. I can share a picture showing the curvature of the Earth but it adds no value here.

I have presented a first-hand accounts of people claiming to circumnavigate Antartica corroborating a RE theory.  You've presented a photo of a wall of ice which demonstrates nothing except that there's ice at the antarctic. And, by the way, if you're suggesting that Cook's account somehow supports your theory I totally reject that. 

34

Celestial Navigation has been used for centuries and it is possible to see the same stars from multiple points in the southern hemisphere at the same time.  People looking South in Australia can see some of the same stars that people looking South in South Africa can see.  The flat earth maps in the Wiki/FAQ all show that these same people would be looking in completely different directions,  in most cases greater than 90 degrees. 

This could easily be replicated with cameras mounted to a globe looking south on the 35 degrees south latitude line that passes the tip of Africa and part of the southern coast of Australia.  The do the same thing on a flat surface with any one of the FE maps and point the cameras due south.  It will be painfully obvious why FE maps don't work.

How is this possible? 
How does Celestial Navigation work in the southern hemisphere on a flat earth?

Perhaps OP was meaning South Africa and South America?  Which reminds me of this classic unanswered post from 2017 :-)

36
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: God sent Gandhi to Hell
« on: January 29, 2020, 02:37:51 PM »
In Islam, every sin can be forgiven except "Shirk" - which is to partner or replace God.

The "even though I've been so good" argument is weak and makes no sense.

You have an employee who you provide accommodation for, health care, salary, dental, allowance, bonuses, free trips and all you ask is that he does his what he's employed for.

But the employee does other things and absolutely refuses to accept that he's employed by you but take all the benefits.

But he's very good. He treats all employees, animals and everyone with love and passion. What kind of person would fire him?

It's weird, I can read the words but I have no idea what you're saying.

Is God the employer in that analogy? For that to work the employee must be born into the role and not be given any opportunity to consent or decline (cough Prince Harry cough).

If we've learned anything from GDPR, it's that a homey must opt-in!

37
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Question about the Ice Wall
« on: January 29, 2020, 12:59:02 PM »
I can't speak for Pete,  but I suspect what he means is we've all seen the same thing.  FE'ers view is the thing we've seen as an ice wall, your view is that the thing we've seen is a continent on a round earth.

In the same way that looking out of your window doesn't prove a flat earth or round earth because of the sheer scale, staring an a wall of ice in the Antarctic doesn't tell you whether it's curving around you or away form you, because the scale makes the curve imperceptible.

Personally, I believe that it has been circumnavigated (distance of approx 13.5k km) which supports a globe earth theory.

https://www.noaa.gov/news/saildrone-is-first-to-circumnavigate-antarctica-in-search-for-carbon-dioxide
https://www.yachtingworld.com/voyages/sailing-antarctica-record-breaking-voyage-around-southern-continent-123341

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