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Offline crutonius

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Doesn't fall off bike...



A fantastic idea.  Let him fight his war.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Putin is going to level the remaining Ukraine and take any resources left.
Why hasn't he been doing that for the last 8 months?  Seems like if he could have done it, he would have done it already.

Or is this one of those "This isn't even my final form!" kinda scenarios where Russia just wanted to tease the world into thinking they're weak?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline J-Man

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Ukraine story


What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Doesn't fall off bike...
Of course. It's been a long time since Putin could even get on a bike, let alone fall off one. I'm sure you've noticed his ticks and inability to stand up for extended periods of time. After all, you're not stupid, just evil.

So, shilling for Satan still working out for you? I wonder how you'll feel about it when the reckoning comes 👀
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

شاحنات صعبة للغاية

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Offline stack

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7 months later...





Seems like the Russians kinda suck at this invasion business.

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Offline J-Man

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peacekeepers...
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

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Offline crutonius

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Indeed.  They're retreating from Ukrainian territory at a record pace.

Good news for Ukraine.  Though I fear all of this intense panic running the Russians are doing might give them an unfair advantage in the olympics.

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Offline crutonius

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https://tass.com/world/1517621

Oh noes! Zelensky just declared those territories unannexed!

I guess they'll have to run those referendums all over again.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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7 months later...



Since Ukraine is a proxy war for the US and NATO countries, whom Russia is really fighting, it appears that Russia is holding the line in some areas and and advancing. When powerful foes fight it is not uncommon for boundaries to be unmoved by significant margins for relatively long periods of time.

However, it is clear from those maps that Russia is winning this. If US/NATO/Ukraine were winning they would have taken back Crimea by now.

Considering that many of the Ukraine resources are coming from outside of the country and can't be easily stopped, at this stage I would expect this to be a relative stalemate until one side runs out of resources.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2022, 05:33:06 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Russia claimed this war would last days instead they have had to conscript 100,000s of troops to maintain their tenuous hold. US credit card ftw
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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This is why there is a relative stalemate:

https://www.wionews.com/opinions-blogs/why-parties-to-russia-ukraine-war-prolonging-it-520931

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The recent successes of Ukrainian counteroffensive, as the cumulative military aid over $60 billion poured into Ukraine from US led NATO, seems to have emboldened Zelensky to talk of defeating Russia and getting back his entire territory.

I'm not sure if the above number includes all of the military equipment given to Ukraine, or mercenary involvement. But that number given to Ukraine in 7 months is roughly equivalent to the Russian annual military spending:

https://warontherocks.com/2019/12/why-russian-military-expenditure-is-much-higher-than-commonly-understood-as-is-chinas/

Quote
Based on the annual average dollar-to-ruble exchange rates, Russia is typically depicted as spending in the region of $60 billion per year on its military. This is roughly in line with the defense spending of medium-sized powers like the United Kingdom and France.

Despite being outspent Russia has a home advantage, admittedly, since they are closer to the action and can more easily mobilize resources without middlemen.

It would be pretty dishonest to suggest that Ukraine is fighting this on its own without bringing up the fact that they are highly supported by NATO and that this is a proxy war between major powers.

And I don't think Russia ever claimed that they could defeat NATO in a non-nuclear proxy war in days, no.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2022, 06:10:00 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline crutonius

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7 months later...



Since Ukraine is a proxy war for the US and NATO countries, whom Russia is really fighting, it appears that Russia is holding the line in some areas and and advancing. When powerful foes fight it is not uncommon for boundaries to be unmoved by significant margins for relatively long periods of time.

However, it is clear from those maps that Russia is winning this. If US/NATO/Ukraine were winning they would have taken back Crimea by now.

Considering that many of the Ukraine resources are coming from outside of the country and can't be easily stopped, at this stage I would expect this to be a relative stalemate until one side runs out of resources.

Russia is quite clearly not holding the line. Their army is in danger of collapsing.

And if this comes down to resources then Russia loses.

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Offline Rushy

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Russia is quite clearly not holding the line.

This depends on what region you're talking about. In northern Ukraine, the counteroffensive is pushing the Russians back. In Southern Ukraine, the counteroffensive has already been defeated and Russian forces are retaking the border regions that they lost in the first few weeks.

Their army is in danger of collapsing.

According to who? No war analyst agrees with what you just said.


The map below makes it pretty clear. The red stripes are regions Russian forces are pushing into as of this post. They've almost retaken all of the territory lost in the southern counteroffensive.



« Last Edit: October 04, 2022, 06:25:43 PM by Rushy »

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Offline crutonius

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Russia is quite clearly not holding the line.

This depends on what region you're talking about. In northern Ukraine, the counteroffensive is pushing the Russians back. In Southern Ukraine, the counteroffensive has already been defeated and Russian forces are retaking the border regions that they lost in the first few weeks.

Their army is in danger of collapsing.

According to who? No war analyst agrees with what you just said.


The map below makes it pretty clear. The red stripes are regions Russian forces are pushing into as of this post. They've almost retaken all of the territory lost in the southern counteroffensive.





Russia's lost a huge amount of territory in the North.  Even now they're losing more territory on that front.

In Kherson they're making new advances in the Northern end of it.  They've moving pretty fast recently.  Kherson is interesting because I don't think retaking it is their primary goal.  I think they're trying to degrade the Russian army.

The only front Russia is making progress is around Bakmut.  Slowly.  Very slowly.

The ISW, where you got your map from, has stated that Russia's army is in danger of collapse multiple times.

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Offline Lexi

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I've been saying WW3 is gonna happen since earlier in January.
Turns out my shitty rambling has came true.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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And if this comes down to resources then Russia loses.

Debatable. Countries can take on debt, if need be, to fight wars. The more debt you take on the more interest you have to pay on that debt. Countries fail when they can't pay the interest on their debt. It is known that the US and various Western European countries are already living near their limits.

Here are some quotes:

Russia: "In 2021, the national debt of Russia amounted to about 17.02 percent of gross domestic product."

US: "US Government debt accounted for 126.7 % of the country's Nominal GDP in Jun 2022,"

UK: "Now Britain is in the 100% debt-to-GDP club, what’s the spending plan?"

Italy: "Italy Government debt accounted for 152.6 % of the country's Nominal GDP in Mar 2022,"

All biggest Western Countries and allies: "Developed countries in the 100% club are a motley lot: Cyprus, France, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy, plus Canada, Japan and the US."

So Russia might have a larger relative credit card to rack up debt on. The US and the biggest NATO countries are known to be spend-a-holics who are living at the limit, largely due to massive welfare and socialist programs enacted by liberals who do not care about fiscal responsibility. It is quite possible that fiscally conservative Russia can start spending on their credit and outspend them all. Also, $100 USD goes a lot further in Russia than in the US and UK. It's more like $500 based on what you can buy with it.

At this moment it's primarily about 6 almost insolvent countries vs. 1 (Russia).

If China and Brazil team up with Russia, as they have been suggesting recently based on UN votes on Russia condemnation and sanction, it may spell significant trouble for NATO. Those countries are fiscally conservative, do not overspend on welfare programs, and have much lower gdp to debt ratios than the US or Western European nations (~50% debt to gdp).
« Last Edit: October 04, 2022, 07:30:44 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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I've been saying WW3 is gonna happen since earlier in January.
Turns out my shitty rambling has came true.
Just curious... how do you know its true?  What constitutes WW3?  Because so far this looks like any old proxy war.



And if this comes down to resources then Russia loses.

Debatable. Countries can take on debt, if need be, to fight wars. The more debt you take on the more interest you have to pay on that debt. Countries fail when they can't pay the interest on their debt. It is known that the US and various Western European countries are already living near their limits.

Here are some quotes:

Russia: "In 2021, the national debt of Russia amounted to about 17.02 percent of gross domestic product."

US: "US Government debt accounted for 126.7 % of the country's Nominal GDP in Jun 2022,"

UK: "Now Britain is in the 100% debt-to-GDP club, what’s the spending plan?"

Italy: "Italy Government debt accounted for 152.6 % of the country's Nominal GDP in Mar 2022,"

All biggest Western Countries and allies: "Developed countries in the 100% club are a motley lot: Cyprus, France, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy, plus Canada, Japan and the US."

So Russia might have a larger relative credit card to rack up debt on. The US and the biggest NATO countries are known to be spend-a-holics who are living at the limit, largely due to massive welfare and socialist programs enacted by liberals who do not care about fiscal responsibility. It is quite possible that fiscally conservative Russia can start spending on their credit and outspend them all. Also, $100 USD goes a lot further in Russia than in the US and UK. It's more like $500 based on what you can buy with it.

At this moment it's primarily about 6 almost insolvent countries vs. 1 (Russia).

If China and Brazil team up with Russia, as they have been suggesting recently based on UN votes on Russia condemnation and sanction, it may spell significant trouble for NATO. Those countries are fiscally conservative, do not overspend on welfare programs, and have much lower gdp to debt ratios than the US or Western European nations (~50% debt to gdp).
But Tom... what would Russia spend the money on?  Lets say they have unlimited money.  Or slave labor.  Whatever.  They can spend any amount of money.  Where would they shop?  The weapons Ukraine is getting is more advanced that most of what Russia has thrown into the war, which means Russia hasn't kept up, militarily.  (Your note about the spending is probably why)  As such, they can't buy what they need nor make it.  They've been cut off from most of the world and the arms markets.  MAYBE they can buy from China but China seems like they want to remain mostly neutral-Russia.  Helping them a bit and being friendly, but not jumping into the war with them.

Also: While china is an economic powerhouse, not sure Brazil is anywhere there.

Also also:
China is condemning the actions likely because they know it'll make Russia happy AND not matter.
This is a similar thing Politicians in the US do.  When a bill that they, personally, approve of but their voters hate it, they will vote against it if its almost certain to win.
Its easy to condemn anything, so long as it won't happen.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Lexi

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I've been saying WW3 is gonna happen since earlier in January.
Turns out my shitty rambling has came true.
Just curious... how do you know its true?  What constitutes WW3?  Because so far this looks like any old proxy war.

I've been saying Russia is gonna go to war with Ukraine since earlier this year because I have been reading posts somewhere.
I KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN BEFORE IT DID.

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Offline Lord Dave

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I've been saying WW3 is gonna happen since earlier in January.
Turns out my shitty rambling has came true.
Just curious... how do you know its true?  What constitutes WW3?  Because so far this looks like any old proxy war.

I've been saying Russia is gonna go to war with Ukraine since earlier this year because I have been reading posts somewhere.
I KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN BEFORE IT DID.
You mean like... February when they went to war? :P

Also, one country going to war with another doesn't make WW3.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Lexi

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I've been saying WW3 is gonna happen since earlier in January.
Turns out my shitty rambling has came true.
Just curious... how do you know its true?  What constitutes WW3?  Because so far this looks like any old proxy war.

I've been saying Russia is gonna go to war with Ukraine since earlier this year because I have been reading posts somewhere.
I KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN BEFORE IT DID.
You mean like... February when they went to war? :P

Also, one country going to war with another doesn't make WW3.

No, it was January. Didn't you read?