[jimster]

When I ask about various things, FEs often say they don't agree with some other FE's idea, for instance you say "that map is wrong", they say "well, some other FE's map and I don't believe that one". Seems to me worth discussing the things that all FEs agree on, the "settled science" of FE.

What are those things, what do all FEs agree on?

[Jeppspace]

That's difficult to answer, due to varying factors, one of which may be philosophical.   

The best cue I could point at this ball is a straight one.

We all agree that the true shape of the Earth is different to what we have been indoctrinated to believe and that if viewed from space it would at least present itself to be much, much flatter.

If not flat.

[manicminer]

We all agree that the true shape of the Earth is different to what we have been indoctrinated to believe and that if viewed from space it would at least present itself to be much, much flatter

Just out of interest, what do you think led to the Earth being formed, when do you think it was formed and what physical process or processes do you think led to it forming flat?

[jimster]

Time to re-focus on my question, what is it that all FEs believe in common.

REs have many many many beliefs in common. What beliefs do FEs have in common?

What is the settled science of FE?

I have asked here and other places, and I think the only thing that all FEs agree on is that the earth is not round. They don't agree that it is a disk, just that it is not round.

[Jeppspace]

We all agree that the true shape of the Earth is different to what we have been indoctrinated to believe and that if viewed from space it would at least present itself to be much, much flatter

Just out of interest, what do you think led to the Earth being formed, when do you think it was formed and what physical process or processes do you think led to it forming flat?

My model is presently making its way from heart beat, to synapse, to finger click, but to answer your question...

The majority of the universe was created simultaneously at a zero-point in eternity, including the Earth.

Unfortunately for some scientists, the concept of time becoming irrelevant and philosophy taking the reigns, whence a scientific environment plays host to the discussion, may be hard to accept.

Nevertheless, the cause of creation, in my view, was and still is to this day, the eternal love of God.

As for your other question of how the Earth came into being as a flat plane, until I have published my model in more depth and clarity, the clearest explanation I will give you, for now, is that the cause of its "flatness" is merely that of geological circumstance whence the influence of cosmological interaction persuades it to form so.

Not all the Earth is flat, in my model. At least not in the conventional sense. And not all the cosmos is uniform, in my model. At least not in the conventional sense.

The orbits of the Sun and Moon? Hold out for it, my friend... there are so many wonders to behold, I won't keep you forever. 

Time to re-focus on my question, what is it that all FEs believe in common.

Indeed, it was a good question and one we should continue to honour.

Aside from actual specifics, jimster, I think we mostly appreciate this forum as a most wonderful scientifically philosophical challenge. I mean, whether or not the Earth can be proven to be either, it is the mere engagement with Flat Earth Science that opens up our minds unto the exploration of amazing alternative concepts. It is these concepts that bring us all to a flat plane of friendly and enjoyable understanding amongst each other, as a society.

This is certainly one thing we all have in common and certainly, we'll get there in the end.

[iamcpc]

What are those things, what do all FEs agree on?

The only thing that I've noticed about people who believe that the earth is flat that like 98% of the community can agree on is:

One or more things do not add up with the official round earth story.

[jimster]

Science re the formation of the earth or universe is obviously harder to pin down than the shape of the earth today. Let's start with the shape of the earth today and worry about formation later. My thread, right, I am OP.

Would love to see your model, I will bet you any amount of money I can find internal inconsistencies and conflicts with known facts.

Will you attach a "fixit gadget" to every problem your model has?

Will your model make it possible to have a flat map with constant scale as a globe does?

Will there have to be giant conspiracies?

Will you need different laws of physics?

My girlfriend and her father worked at NASA when I was in college. I was there several times, knew several people who worked there. I played blackjack on the same computer that  they used to do data reduction on X planes. Neil Armstrong gave a speech to my high school science class. The first few scenes of "The Right Stuff" (story of the first 7 astronauts) was filmed at Edwards, where I went to elementary school.

Either my youth heroes and father and community members were stupid brainwashed idiots doing phony jobs, or man actually went to the moon. It is enraging when people who don't know anything about it try to explain that they were all dupes, or maybe a few of them were conspirators. Certainly Neil Armstrong was a horrible man, knew what he was doing if FE. My father worked on testing the Saturn 5 motor, my best friend's father worked on the lunar module, the whole town worked for AF, NASA, rocket test site, Lockheed, North American. I worked at the AF flight test data processing center on flight testing the then new F-15. Later, my dad worked at the skunk works and area 51. I was in Aerospace Explorers and we got private tours of rocket site, Goldstone, Pt Mugu, etc etc etc.

Two X-15 pilots lived on my street. One told me personally he could see the curve, he said first thing everybody asks.

FE insults me and my father and my home town. It encourages dismissal of experts and conspiracy thinking. It is not harmless.

Will your model explain the space program? Will it explain how amateur radio operators aim directional antennas at satellites they built, aiming them as though they were at the published places, the operation of sextant and equatorial mount? etc etc etc.

Looking forward to your model and seeing if it conflicts with itself and known facts. If it is not complete or does not match known facts, I assume you want to know. If you can produce one, I will make us both rich.

[jimster]

I believe that FEs do not all even believe the earth is flat, some think toroid or whatever.

I believe the totality of what FE agrees on is that the earth is not round.

I believe they are nowhere close to agreeing on anything and never will.

I do not believe there is any problem with RE science, it all matches and makes sense.

I submit, that the entirety of FE science is "the earth is not round, because I saw a youtube video".

[Jeppspace]

Will you attach a "fixit gadget" to every problem your model has?

Hmm, nope.

Will your model make it possible to have a flat map with constant scale as a globe does?

If someone wants to make one, yes.

Will there have to be giant conspiracies?

Not really. Mostly just politicians with delusions of grandeur. Ok a bit.

Will you need different laws of physics?

Yes and no. If you like, existing laws applied in a new way, plus one more.

Will your model explain the space program?

Aww shucks.

[jimster]

No "fixit" gadget - no atmolayer, no lampshade sun on a revolving arm, nothing like that? What is your model?

So there is no FE map because no one wants to make one? I challenge that, sir, there is none because Gauss's theorem proves wyou can't porject a curved surface onto a flat on without distortion. I have an accurate RE map, you do not have a constant scale map with distances. Let's see one, or your claim rings hollow.

Would love to see a model that explained space flight without impossible conspiracies, explained the sun/day/night without a rotating arm and a lampshade, had an accurate flat map, obeyed the laws of physics, etc.

Where would I find a description?

[jimster]

Re-focus again: the OP question was, what do all FEs agree on. Sop far, the answer is only that the earth is not round.

What else?

[iamcpc]

Re-focus again: the OP question was, what do all FEs agree on. Sop far, the answer is only that the earth is not round.

What else?

1. One or more things about the RE model does not add up.
2. At least some of the evidence which strongly supports the RE model is misunderstood, inaccurate, incorrect, fabricated, or a lie.
3. There is one or more people on this earth which know that one or more things don't add up about the RE model who misleadingly support the RE model.

[Jeppspace]

No "fixit" gadget - no atmolayer, no lampshade sun on a revolving arm, nothing like that? What is your model?

No nothing like that or any of those unusual things but it will cover the foremost queries.

So there is no FE map because no one wants to make one?

To be more accurate, there will be a map presented, it will however be only an artistic impression, since the actual cartography is straightforward enough for a professional to undertake instead.

Would love to see a model that explained space flight... explained the sun/day/night ... obeyed the laws of physics, etc.

Yes it will, all those things, and with real life phenomena that can be observed even from the ground. But it will also however, require a belief adjustment, in that some things we desire are unattainable, at least in this life.

Where would I find a description?

I'll post a link once it's floating the aether... it's all fun really.

[pb1985]

I consider myself more a skeptic of the globe-heliocentrism than FE, but it's universally held among FE'ers and most globe-helio skeptics that:

1) There are countless indications of deception and cover-up around RE by NASA (fake Moon landings, fake Earth images, ISS fakery) and other agencies, and a lack of convincing documentation of RE after 60 years of their supposedly being able to provide it. Why, what are they hiding? Also: prohibited Antarctic exploration; Antarctic Treaty USAP and NASA all founded in 12 month period, among many other points.
1A) There is an enormous anti-religious, pro-secular, pro-scientism, pro-world government motive for RE deception and rejection of geocentrism.
2) The scientific foundations of heliocentrism (e.g. gravity as a force, no aether, special relativity) are still under dispute or not decisively proven, and their leading figures (Newton, Einstein) show signs of respectively being mentally ill and a fraud and being heavily promoted by the establishment. Many physicists disagree with both even today.
3) The vast majority of if not all RE proofs have alternative explanations that are objectively just as feasible, if not more so, if one sets aside one's conditioning.
4) RE theory is stamped with occult numerology (66.6k mph, 1666 gravity 'discovery,' 93M mi Sun), suggesting it is a deception and that underlying mathematics may have been reverse engineered and a globe re-projected.
5) In terms of direct experience, it looks flat even from 35k feet which is the highest 99.99% will ever go, it feels flat, it feels stationary. Humanity and Earth to most people feel special, not just another species in a random place.

[ChrisTP]

I consider myself more a skeptic of the globe-heliocentrism than FE, but it's universally held among FE'ers and most globe-helio skeptics that:

1) There are countless indications of deception and cover-up around RE by NASA (fake Moon landings, fake Earth images, ISS fakery) and other agencies, and a lack of convincing documentation of RE after 60 years of their supposedly being able to provide it. Why, what are they hiding? Also: prohibited Antarctic exploration; Antarctic Treaty USAP and NASA all founded in 12 month period, among many other points.
1A) There is an enormous anti-religious, pro-secular, pro-scientism, pro-world government motive for RE deception and rejection of geocentrism.
2) The scientific foundations of heliocentrism (e.g. gravity as a force, no aether, special relativity) are still under dispute or not decisively proven, and their leading figures (Newton, Einstein) show signs of respectively being mentally ill and a fraud and being heavily promoted by the establishment. Many physicists disagree with both even today.
3) The vast majority of if not all RE proofs have alternative explanations that are objectively just as feasible, if not more so, if one sets aside one's conditioning.
4) RE theory is stamped with occult numerology (66.6k mph, 1666 gravity 'discovery,' 93M mi Sun), suggesting it is a deception and that underlying mathematics may have been reverse engineered and a globe re-projected.
5) In terms of direct experience, it looks flat even from 35k feet which is the highest 99.99% will ever go, it feels flat, it feels stationary. Humanity and Earth to most people feel special, not just another species in a random place.

I'm gunna take these on in a sincere way. To each their own but one side has to be wrong and I really think flat earthers are on the wrong side of the coin here.

1) There are countless 'indications' of deception and coverup around anything if you're looking for it. I mean the main FE community think this website is set up by the government to persuade people the earth is round.  In reality I don't think the government cares what you think regarding the shape of the earth but I digress.

1A)Religion is a subjective faith that differs from person to person based on what ever fairytale they choose to believe. The idea of science does not go against religion, it's just that science is about finding out facts and as it happens, most religion is man made fairytales (and I'm willing to bet my soul on the fact that when I die I'll become nothing and go neither heaven, hell or any afterlife so if I'm wrong about that then fine, I'll be damned). Notice how there are multiple religions? Multiple one-and-only gods? Not all religions can be correct in this case, and if that's the case and any of them can be incorrect then what are the chances any of them are right? I'm not a religious person and I have nothing against anyone who is. After all that doesn't affect me (unless you come to my door preaching or accuse me of being a witch and trying to kill me or whatever).

2)They aren't under dispute from anyone reputable or smart and no, I don't count any flat earther here as particularly smart and I'm sorry if that hurts anyones feelings, feel free to show your credentials or a mensa certificate or something if you think you're super smart but no flat earther here has any Nobel prize for proving the flat earth...

3)The problem with feasible alternative explanations of RE proofs is that none of those alternatives work with other alternatives while the RE model does, this remains the case even if someone refuses to accept it. There's a ton of different flat earth 'beliefs' that don't work together and one functional round earth model.

4)When a set of triplets turn the age of 6 they don't become evil or whatever, it's just numbers and coincidences happen. I met my partner at random and we're both 29.. .Conspiracy or coincidence?

5)Any sphere close up enough will look flat. Anything going slow enough will feel stationary, take for example a roundabout doing one revolution in 24 hours, you think you'd feel that if you were sat on it? I'm going to guess your answer would be no, so why would you think you'd feel the earths 24 hour rotation? But regardless of if you think the earth is stationary there is still plenty of movement you can see and feel like wind for example. If the earth were stationary why is everything moving so dynamically?

Humans are special, we are a vastly unique species even on our own planet and we've yet to find another intelligent species in the universe, which is a sad and lonely but perfectly explainable. You see, we as the human race have yet to go out and meet another alien race on their home world so why would we expect any other species to the same? Humans are the smartest beings on this planet, no other intelligent species has risen to become out equal or superior on earth out of millions of different species, the likelihood of humans coming into existence was unique, the chance of intelligence on earth with all of our species was one in millions. There may be alien life out in the universe but there's no reason to believe that alien life would be capable of the same as humans and if they were just as smart, there are other factors to take into account like the fact that alien civilisations could have come and gone already, and could well have been stuck on a more dense planet making it harder to leave the planet let alone explore space.

Just because humans are unique does not mean there aren't other unique planets with unique ecosystems with unique life and if there is life out there, it doesn't make humans any less unique. The idea that people are taught that space exists so that we can feel insignificant and live lives as mindless drones giving money to 'the man' is ridiculous. The idea of exploring space inspires me, what can we find? what can humans achieve? Humans can achieve so much with such a vast universe waiting for us. I'd much rather live in a universe filled with awesome, unique stuff waiting to be discovered than in some flat chunk of land encased in a dome, I fail to see how that could make anyone feel special or safe.

[Jeppspace]

...unique stuff waiting to be discovered than in some flat chunk of land encased in a dome, I fail to see how that could make anyone feel special or safe.

You'd be right on that count, if it helps. Indeed your points on religion too.

I won't detour this thread by explaining other doctrines on these subjects, but as I hope this community will reveal, given the time to evolve into more diverse branches of thought, single mindedness and flat earthiness need not be of the same plane.

Tidings.

[pb1985]

'Are countless indications of deception and cover-up around anything'
No, I don't recall 7/11 faking store openings, or sports teams posting CGI renditions of fake stadiums.

'Religions are subjective and different' 
Yet virtually all believe in a geocentric universe and a Creator, which is all I'm talking about.

'Aren't under dispute from anyone reputable or smart'
Actually, they are. Just Google 'gravity not a force' or 'Einstein special relativity wrong' and you will find untold dozens of maximally educated PhDs disputing that they exist as we have been taught.

'My fiance and I getting married at 29 is the same as 666 twice'
You and your fiance are probably unknown people and got married at a common age, and marrying at the same age is common. The odds of that may be something like 1 in 50. The speed of the Earth revolution and invention of gravity are arguably the two most central concepts in heliocentrism, and both carry the same triple digit number that could have been any 3-digit number. It's like rolling the same number on a thousand-sided die twice. The odds of this are somewhere around 1 in a million (1 in 1000 squared). Are you sure you're someone who should be talking about dumb people and intelligence?

'Living in a dome doesn't make us feel special'
Life has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth, and I believe there's something afterwards. Were a firmament to exist, it would not engender negative feelings within me. Heliocentrism is rife with rhetoric suggesting insignificance, lack of meaning: 'stuck on a floating rock' 'insignificant dust' 'space dust' etc.

'We've yet to find another intelligent species'
Bad assumption based on false premise. There may be no other intelligent species. Aliens are fake, UFOs are fake, alleged sightings per year are up 1200x since founding of UN; it's all a psy-op to get you ready for fake alien encounter to usher in world govt.

[QED]

“FE insults me and my father and my home town. It encourages dismissal of experts and conspiracy thinking. It is not harmless.”

Wow. I didn’t realize this was so personal there Jim. Like, you are going to meet folks who believe different things than you. If you get all bent out of shape about this then that makes for a pretty unhappy life.

Maybe I believe that intolerance isn’t harmless.

Plus, if you really think this is harmful, then your strategy is all wrong. By further attacking and alienating FEers you only push them farther away. If you value critical thinking, education, and truth, then helping to create fringe groups is counter productive.

Instead, why don’t you try to practice empathy and understanding.

And the next time you get your panties in a bunch over it, put down the keyboard and just chill out with a beer or something. Yeesh.

[Balls Dingo]

1) Also: prohibited Antarctic exploration; Antarctic Treaty USAP and NASA all founded in 12 month period, among many other points.

This one comes up a lot and it's nonsense. 45000 tourists visit Antarctica every year. Many offer camping trips. There's a yacht race around it. Two guys just had a ski race across it. Anthony Bourdain even shot an episode from the South Pole. It's not off-limits, just regulated. If you can sail round it, and ski over it, what exactly do you think is being hidden?

[LoopTheory]

Have we actually got any hard science yet for this movement or is it all theoretical? Have we mapped what is below the Earth thoroughly? Have we figured out the wonky electromagnetic fields? (I just joined the movement, yay!)