[ProPilot]

Hello everyone,

I'm joining your community with respect and appreciation for the work you're doing here.

The challenge I have with accepting your theory is that, as a professional pilot, I have flown around the world (one way) and over the poles as well, any number of times, using great circle routes.  There are many navigational hoops to jump through to make this possible.  Not only is the curvature of the earth clearly visible from 40,000+ feet, but there is no 'ice wall' and everything which is plotted on a map is, well, reachable...  whether one flies east, west, north or south for a long enough period of time.  That alone makes it tough for me to imagine how it could be possible that the earth could be flat.

I say that as a precursor not to shoot any theories down per se, but to start a reasonable conversation.  I understand that people who believe strongly in Flat Earth won't simply accept the word of a professional pilot.  I imagine that it must be assumed that I'm a part of a conspiracy designed to keep the "general public" from knowing that the earth is flat, or somesuch.  So, let's assume I'm interested in finding a way to believe the Earth is actually flat.  Yet, I'm a pilot and I've meticulously planned and flown flights which clearly demonstrate the Earth must be round.  What's a starting point to have a conversation to show someone like myself that an entire lifetime of global aerial navigation, personal experience, and direct observations that the Earth is actually flat?  I'm truly open-minded and would like to be presented with a sound argument.

Thanks!

[FactsDontLie]

Dude, its a waste of time. I'm telling ya. You prove the earth ain't flat and they ban you or warn you. lol
I will probably get a warning or get banned just for writing this.

[Dr David Thork]

Dude, its a waste of time. I'm telling ya. You prove the earth ain't flat and they ban you or warn you. lol
I will probably get a warning or get banned just for writing this.

You probably will get a warning, because you haven't added to the conversation. You just had a rant. And you know we have a place for ranting already.


As for the OP, we have a Lounge for introducing yourself. If you want to discuss anything specific, then YOU pick the topic. Pick the thing best proves your conviction and make a thread about just that. Don't be sticking 5 different 'proofs' in one thread. The thread will end up a mess if you do that.

[Jeppspace]

I understand that people who believe strongly in Flat Earth won't simply accept the word of a professional pilot.  I imagine that it must be assumed that I'm a part of a conspiracy designed to keep the "general public" from knowing that the earth is flat, or somesuch.  So, let's assume I'm interested in finding a way to believe the Earth is actually flat.

Welcome to The Flat Earth Society.

An assumption made by Round Earthers is that Flat Earthers all share the same scientific model. This is not the case.

Whilst the concept of a finite disc surrounded by an ice wall may be what most newcomers are commonly presented with, that is a handed down and somewhat virgin conception.

It is certainly a romantic one and I do not dissuade others from pursuing that line of thought if it is the science of their heart.

However in regards to your mention of witnessing curvature and the absence of an ice wall, I can tell you that this need not be evidence of a Round Earth, merely that the true Flat Earth model is somewhat augmented in comparison.

I have my own FE model which I will be publishing in the not too distant future and this does not include an ice wall or the absolute absence of "some" curvature.  As such it does differ somewhat from the conventional model.

Without meaning to offend however, I would say if you have "genuinely" witnessed curvature, or genuinely "believe" to have, then I would only accept that claim on the basis that you have not flown the entire world.

Thus, as I hope I have demonstrated here, there is much more to the Flat Earth Science Movement than only the mere scientific arguments or concepts it was once founded on.

Good tidings.

[SeaCritique]

I understand that people who believe strongly in Flat Earth won't simply accept the word of a professional pilot.  I imagine that it must be assumed that I'm a part of a conspiracy designed to keep the "general public" from knowing that the earth is flat, or somesuch. 

No, because I don't know if you are who you say you are. 

And, if you are that person, I doubt you're a part of any conspiracy.

Baby Thork is right, by the way -- show yourself to the Lounge, have a coffee, and come back with a more focused thread.

[jimster]

Every point you made has been made here many times. Like you I wanted to come here and patiently and reasonably go through the many proof points of RE. I personally have asked FEs about many things, north star/latitude/sextant, equatorial mount, satellite dish headings, etc etc etc. I have recently asked for FE explanations for 4 of these. 0 zero zilch. They are not here to figure out the true shape of the earth. They are here to build thought castle explanations of how the world can seem so round and yet be flat. Be forewarned, these do not have to be observed or explained, that's their fun. Start with assume FE, then explain a giant gadget/conspiracy to explain.

I once suggested FEs go to the NASA web site and try to figure out exactly who the conspirators were with the execs and org chart. No interest. Endless use of NASA to explain the conspiracy, no interest in the specifics.

Like the old joke where the prisoners tell jokes by just giving a joke number, you can list the FE responses generically:

1. introduce new laws of physics
2. cite never observed and unexplained existence of "correction devices" - atmolayer that turn real FE into apparent RE, or secret boxes in airliner nav systems
3. off into the weeds - pages of equations of obscure physics about anything except your clear point
4. accuse you of bad manners, asking wrong
5. disavow the part of FE that you disproved - you can't say their map is wrong, because it might be another one
6. FE is a young science - RE has to actually prove everything. FE hasn't had time to be held to that sytandard
7. You are brainwashed
8. change subject
9. zetetic solipsism - you can't know because you werenot there - antarctica doesn't exist
10. Giant yet somehow secret multi-generational, multi-national conspiracy with tiny number of people, no detected infrastructure,

and always:

... just don't answer ... The most obvious RE proofs get zero replies.

What you won't get is a clear, simple answer that is consistent with known facts and explains why FE is true.

In the end, what FE proves is that it is possible to get a group of people to believe something absurd and defend their delusion with those strategies. Meanwhile, FEs and REs continue to live ion a world that is RE in every way. I think FEs like it that way. If the world came around to their point of view, this web site would be pointless, it would be absorbed into banality.