241

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat Earth Computer Model

« on: March 11, 2019, 11:52:22 PM »

Okay, start here: the north star is clearly to the north of all who see it. You will need to find a place where it is to the north of everyone in the northern hemisphere, but not visible to those in the southern hemisphere.

You can find the exact position of the north star by plotting all the observed angles and see where the lines cross. Find the altitude by drawing a line and make marks one inch apart, as latitude is equidistant. Then use a protractor and make a line at 0 degrees on the first (equator), 10 degrees on the second, 20 degrees on the third, and so on up to the 90 degree one (the north pole). Where these lines cross is where the north star must be.

You latitude is equal to the angle of the north star above the horizon (known for centuries and confirmed a million times. The latitude of the equator is 0, so it would be 0 degrees above the horizon.That would be on the surface at the north pole.

You'll need to explain why the southern hemisphere can't see it. Most FErs explain with perspective and vanishing point. I wonder how the sun can be up there spraying light across half the world, yet an hour after sunset, I can't see it at all. Even more puzzling, I can see stars over the entire night sky, so it isn't blocking them out. Where did the sun go?

After you figure out where the north star is, you can work on star trails, why the stars look like they travel across the sky in opposite directions in northern and southern hemisphere. Here most FErs go with modifications to the laws of physics, having the light bend from something else to what it would be on RE.

In my effort to help you understand the problem you are taking on, I may think of some more, will let you know.

Looking forward to your location of the north star that will give correct latitude for all.

242

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The effect FE has on me

« on: March 11, 2019, 11:30:38 PM »

Other ways to compute the distance: gps, spherical geometry, celestial navigation, odometer.

Boston -> LA is 2700 miles on bing map, nonstop flights are 5 hours 45 minutes.

I have flown this route, my experience matched.

Dividing gives an average speed of 470. Right in the range of jetliner speeds.

What does not match?

243

Flat Earth Theory / Any film production experts?

« on: March 11, 2019, 09:31:08 PM »

An analysis of the moon landing hoax videos. Is this guy right?

244

Flat Earth Theory / How to make an FE map with accurate distances

« on: March 11, 2019, 09:25:52 PM »

Pick out some major cities and check multiple sources to determine their distance apart. I Suggest Stockholm, Moscow, Cairo, Capetown, Lisbon, and Tehran.

Get some washers and string and mark each washer with the city name. The strings must be scale distance long after tying to the washer. Try 1 inch = 500 miles, easier math with 1 cm - 500 miles.

Look up the distances between ALL the cities (this will insure accuracy) and tie a string of that length between the city/washers.

Now put it on a flat flat flat table and stretch the strings tight. When you have all strings tight, the city/washers are located at their true relative positions. Once you have the true relative positions, it should be easy to continue the technique and locate all cities accurately and see how the map is oriented.

If at first it seems impossible to get all strings tight, keep trying! It may take hours, keep going, don't stop.

If you do eventually despair, try putting a deflated balloon under your city/washer string net and inflating the balloon. You may find that as the balloon becomes a globe, making all the strings tight works much better on a curved surface.

If you can make all the strings stretch tight on a flat surface, you have proved FE and are well on your way to a FE map!

245

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The effect FE has on me

« on: March 11, 2019, 08:58:11 PM »

A FEr told me that no planes actually fly from Australia to south America, because on the polar projection map, the distance is too far. I asked him when I flew from Sydney to LA, which is longer than the range of any airliner on the FE polar projection map, and the distance, airliner speed, and travel time all matched the RE globe distance, he questioned whether I was actually in Australia (weird animals, weird geopragy, locals call it OZ for good reason). When I explained I was there for 10 days, traveled to the Blue Mountains, and knew probably 20 Australians that worked for my company, they all thought they were in Australia (or threatened by NASA to lie?), etc etc etc, he changed the subject.

246

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How can FE make a map?

« on: March 11, 2019, 08:47:26 PM »

You can't do it by asking the software, it displays a mercator projection but gives you the correct distance. You have to use a ruler or string.

Look at Alaska on one of these maps. Look at continental USA, is it 4.7 times the size of Alaska, Mexico is slightly larger than Alaska in sq miles.

I went to the bing map and measured the width of the US as 12 inches, bing says it is 2700 miles. I then measured the width of Alaska from Canadian border to Nome on the west coast at 6 inches. Bing says it is 775.

Why does bing not tell me numbers that have a 2:1 ratio as my measurement says it should be?

You can do this yourself.

Here is either the truth, or very incompetent airline people:

http://www.flyalaska.com/alaskafacts.html

This is not the relative size shown on your mercator projections, because they make things bigger than they are towards the poles.

You can make a computer map that is visually distorted yet reports accurate distances.

What you can't do is make a world map on a flat sheet of paper and measure all distances accurately with a constant scale.

247

Flat Earth Theory / The effect FE has on me

« on: March 11, 2019, 08:05:11 PM »

FE has implications for me that casual FErs might not realize.

First, in science class, they didn't say "believe this just because we told you". In 4th grade, we made inclinometers and used them to get an angle on the north star. Then we looked up our latitude, it matched. The teacher then drew a diagram of round earth with people on it and showed how their latitude was equal to the angle they would see to the north star. This was the beginning of education in science through university where we did as many of the actual experiments as practical, we did the math, we saw diagrams, etc.

According to FE I was "brainwashed", but to me that means "too stupid to see through that crap". After all, FErs figured it out, often say it is obvious. So RE must be too dumb to see. Then I look at FE posts and videos and compare it to my fourth grade teacher presentation. Really? 4th grade teacher was tight, clear, simple, complete and explained it. There is no youtube video to explain north star inclination = latitude, I have looked.

Second, I grew up at Edwards AFB USAF Flight Test Center/NASA Dryden/rocket test site where my father worked. My father and most of my friend's fathers worked at test center, nasa, rocket site, astronaut training school, Lockheed, and North American. The first scenes of "The Right Stuff" were filmed there, some in a house exactly like mine. Where they first broke the speed of sound, Yeager. Space shuttle has landed there. I saw SR-71 AND b-70 take off and land. Two X-15 pilots lived on my street, I knew their kids. I asked one if he saw the curve of the earth (through a flat rectangular window), he laughed and said "yes, everybody asks that." Sonic booms all day.

Our fathers got us into very cool aerospace tech places, one father brought home a genie bottle of liquid nitrogen and we did the freeze flower and shatter it, just like the science films. I was in aerospace explorers, tours of Pt Mugu and Goldstone radiotelescopes, climbed all over the test stand for Saturn V, saw (and heard tests of it). Neil Young gave a speech to my high school science class before he went to the moon. After they taught us the periodic chart, we made explosives (chlorine pellets from my backyard pool and some gasoline in a used CO2 cartridge mortar bomb, for one).

In college, I had a summer intern job at the flight test center computer where they were doing data analysis of the then new F-15. My girlfriend summer interned at NASA Dryden, where her father worked on very high temperature glue. I had lunch there and got tours. My best friend's father was an engineer working on the lunar module. The lunar lander was first tested at Edwards. We followed this stuff like other kids followed sports teams.

My father worked on the Saturn V tests. When they fired one off, you could see it and hear it in town. Impressive. Later my father worked on the SR-71, first at the "skunk works", then at area 51.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

My youth was immersed in aerospace, and I personally knew two men who went over 200,000 feet in the X-15. Our fathers were mostly WW2 vets, what Brokaw called "The Greatest Generation". FErs would say they were a bunch of people doing phony things who lacked the ability that FErs have to see through it. The FErs have to be a lot smarter than literal rocket scientists.

So my father was a liar and I am brainwashed, or both brainwashed? Conspiracy theories are not harmless, they hurt people. And I defy you to define the edges of the conspiracy of how ten, or a hundred, or a thousand could do all the required shenanigans to fool billions.

It was miserable living at Edwards, 60 mph wind, 115 degree heat, no trees, tumbleweeds in my yard, out in the middle of nowhere, could get down to zero in winter, once it snowed 2 feet - high desert is a bitch and I hated it. But we did it, to do our tiny part so that USA could have fighters and rockets. And at least I got one of the coolest tech childhoods ever.

248

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How can FE make a map?

« on: March 11, 2019, 06:57:43 PM »

If I can change the scale of the map in different places, I could make Alaska 10 feet across and the continental USA 1 inch wide.

How do I use your map to measure the distance between Stockholm and Cairo? The scale will continuously change between them. Not very convenient. Complicated calculation, you'll need a program.

What I am saying is you can't make a map of the earth with a constant scale everywhere without a globe. On a globe, Alaska looks right, the proportion to continental US is what the sq mi numbers predict. On a globe, you can take a piece of string and measure between any two places, and the number will match airline schedules, google maps, and gps.

There is no flat map that can have one sacale and accurate distances everywhere. And that is the precise match with RE that FE does not have.

249

Flat Earth Theory / Re: FE Theory: Formal Development (Part I)

« on: March 11, 2019, 06:37:17 PM »

I'm sorry, I thought I was helping you by showing that this proposal could not be correct and so helping you not to waste time. I would want someone to do that for me, so golden rule.

Apparently it amuses you to build a system based on things that can't be true. I am sorry, I thought you were trying to figure out how reality works.

Carry on, Sorry.

250

Flat Earth Theory / Re: night time sky

« on: March 11, 2019, 06:32:40 PM »

If that's as deep as you go, anything might be true.

Why, if it is at the top of the dome, can I not see the north star from the southern hemisphere?

Why do star trails go opposite directions in south and north hemisphere?

The north star is at an angle from the horizon equal to latitude. At the equator, it is on the horizon, 0 degrees, With FE geometry, that puts it on the surface at the north pole. If it is at 3100 mi altitude over the north pole, a triangle calculator gives an angle of 26 degrees above the horizon. How does this work? Where is the north star on FE?

The moon and stars go across the sky all night. On the side where they are rising, where do they come from? On the setting side, where do they go?

I can see stars at night all over the sky, everywhere on the dome. Why can't I see the sun? Where did it go?

RE knows where it went and all these things. Who do you stand with, colleges, universities, 100s of years of exploration and confirmation, or a slightly tipsy herbologist (not to say they might not have knowledge of herbs, and sometimes be sober)?

251

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How can FE make a map?

« on: March 11, 2019, 06:19:33 PM »

To make it completely simple, Mexico is bigger than Alaska. Look at your map and explain.

252

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How can FE make a map?

« on: March 11, 2019, 06:17:44 PM »

So you are saying these are the true FE maps, not the polar projection UN map?

First, maps, these and the ones hanging in classrooms, are made flat for convenience. They explained to us that these were distorted, that it was a tradeoff between convenience of flat and accuracy of globe. Educated people look at these maps and understand that Alaska and Australia really aren't as big. These maps are useful, however for locating countries relative place, for selecting, but not for measuring.

From wiki mercator projection (what the links you gave me are):

"Because the linear scale of a Mercator map increases with latitude, it distorts the size of geographical objects far from the equator and conveys a distorted perception of the overall geometry of the planet. At latitudes greater than 70° north or south the Mercator projection is practically unusable, because the linear scale becomes infinitely large at the poles."

Go to your maps and look at Alaska. It is close to half the size of continental USA and looks like it is much bigger than Mexico - 761,000 sq mi, Alaska 663,000 sq mi continental USA 3,120,000 sq mi. Does that look right to you? By sq mi, continental US is 4.7 times the size of Alaska. Check your map.

You need to read this, it explains the problem and the possible solutions:

http://geoawesomeness.com/best-map-projection/

My criteria for a good map is that all the distances are correct. The metric "voted on by FErs" is just that, not equivalent to "correct". I would like it if they voted a map in, there would be one targert to demolish, rather than ever shifting tentative maps.

I doubt you will be able to get them to vote because they have to keep their options open. FErs do not like to be opinned down, everything must ready to be backed out when the inevitable problems are pointed out. Like Alaska is waaaaay too big big on mercator projection.

Go to google eart web page. There you will find a globe displayed. Pick a place and zoom into the surface of a sphere with a radius so large that a one sq mile map has a curve of 8 inches. That curve is still there, but so tiny it doesn't matter. This is the accurate representation, bing etc just used a flat mercator for convenience/aesthetics and did not bother to say "Warning: Mercator projection distorts sizws close to the poles!" because they thought everybody had that explained to them in 5th grade, as I did.

So if you want to stay with your Mercator projection, let's talk about the size of Alaska vs Mexico. Iceland and Greenland are way too big also

253

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How can FE make a map?

« on: March 11, 2019, 12:15:12 AM »

I clicked on the first link and it gave me a search on "map", not sure what that means.

I clicked on the second link, got a map. On this map, Australia (continent, area = 7,692,024 km2 ) is smaller than Greenland (island, area = 2,166,086 km2). This map does not work.

Can you give me a link to a flat map that has Greenland, USA, and Australia in proper size relationships?

There is no such link, this can only be done on a globe. I will find the problem on any flat map of the whole world.

Link to flat map with Australia, USA and Greenland at proper size, pleeeeease.

254

Flat Earth Theory / Re: cone sun possible???

« on: March 10, 2019, 11:54:20 PM »

The issue is not the shape of the sun. Suppose you are in a dark room and someone across the room is holding a flashlight poining down. Due to dust in the air reflecting light, you will see the beam, like you see searchlights at grand openings and shooting down planes in WW2. The air also diffuses the light, as you see for a short while after sunset when it is still light after the sun is below the horizon. An hour after sunset, you would see the cone of light shining down, as I said, like a giant spotlight pointing down in the distance.

And you WOULD see it. You can see stars all over the dome everywhere on earth, so we know we can see across the entire diameter of the earth.

FE has never explained where the sun goes at night and why you can't see it off in the distance, yet you can see stars over the entire dome. The sun that was so bright at your noon is not just distant at nioght, you can see stars through it. If it isn't simultaneously bright to those under it and invisible to those seeing stars right through it, where is it?

255

Flat Earth Theory / north star / sextant / latitude

« on: March 10, 2019, 11:44:00 PM »

If I point a sextant at the north star and read its elevation from the horizon, I will get my latitude, known and used for navigation for hundreds of years.

When sighted at the equator, it will be on the horizon, elevation 0, matches latitude on RE.

If the north star is 3100 mi over the north pole on FE, then the triangle says it is at an elevation of 26 degrees. On FE, seeing it on the horizon means it is on the surface of the earth at the north pole.

Does anyone have an FE explanation for this?

256

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How to know the location of a satellite with no equipment

« on: March 10, 2019, 11:34:41 PM »

That's why they call it TRIangulation!

I doubt any FE will reply. Conspiracy, applying laws of physics incorrectly, change the subject, descend into ever tinier details until the discussion trails off, or simply refuse to answer.

No actual answers that correlate with known reality.

257

Flat Earth Theory / Re: FE Theory: Formal Development (Part I)

« on: March 10, 2019, 11:27:22 PM »

Where is Hawaii? Looks like they are living on the edge. Hopefully, no one sails the wrong way.

Also, since you have abandoned the "surrounded by Antarctica" model, you have no ice wall to keep the water in.

What's up with the edge, NASA patrol, fall off, or advanced physics not yet known that cause instantaneous pop up to the opposite edge?

258

Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is the theory?

« on: March 10, 2019, 11:10:27 PM »

The science is complete bs. Consider that at the same moment, people at longitude 0 seeing sun on eastern horizon, at 90 sun directly overhead, at 180 sun on eastern horizon, and at 270, no sun at all. Impossible on a flat plane with a dome over it.

Come here if you want to study evasion, tribal delusion, bias confirmation, motivated reasoning, etc. This isn't about scientific accuracy.

This is about people feeling they are the brave pioneers of new truth, special, smarter, break free.

There are endless youtube videos of what you want, why ask here?

259

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Distances on the Flat Earth Model

« on: March 10, 2019, 11:03:30 PM »

I have never seen a FE map with a scale. If I did, I would immediately start measuring known distances. Willing to take all bets I would find they are wrong. If RE, no FE map will ever have the right distances per Gauss's theorem.

On the UN/polar projection map most often shown, you can easily see that Australia is about half again the width of USA. Odometers, geodesic surveys, google maps, a bajillion sources agree the US is 3000 mi wide and Australia is 2700.

Good luck getting a FE to admit they don't have a map or show you one.

260

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How can FE make a map?

« on: March 10, 2019, 10:35:34 PM »

Small map equals small distortion, unnoticeable and unimportant. Large flat map has choice of distortion, but can never be right without some disto0rtion, the distances can never be accurate. I have never seen a FE map with a scale to check the distances.

Show me a map of the entire world, flat, no missing parts, with a scale and accurate distances.

For example, in mapping Australia on a flat map you have two choices, either make Australia the wrong size or the coasts have the wrong longitude.

Feel free to show me a FE map with correct distances everywhere. I bet you my entire net worth you never will.