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Offline Tom Bishop

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Gullibility of the public
« on: February 01, 2016, 08:20:43 AM »
http://hoaxes.org/af_database/permalink/planetary_alignment_decreases_gravity

Quote
During an interview on BBC Radio 2, on the morning of April 1, 1976, the British astronomer Patrick Moore announced that an extraordinary astronomical event was about to occur. At exactly 9:47 am, the planet Pluto would pass directly behind Jupiter, in relation to the Earth. This rare alignment would mean that the combined gravitational force of the two planets would exert a stronger tidal pull, temporarily counteracting the Earth's own gravity and making people weigh less. Moore called this the Jovian-Plutonian Gravitational Effect.

Moore told listeners that they could experience the phenomenon by jumping in the air at the precise moment the alignment occurred. If they did so, he promised, they would experience a strange floating sensation.

At 9:47, Moore declared, "Jump now!" A minute passed, and then the BBC switchboard lit up with dozens of people calling in to report that the experiment had worked!

Is it a wonder the general public will believe anything they are told?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 08:28:45 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2016, 08:45:27 AM »
I always like to compare Santa Clause with what other lies we are willing to digest growing up.

We lie to our friends and family for the most trivial of reasons, yet the general public cannot phathom the idea their government is lieing to them.


Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2016, 11:57:02 AM »
I always like to compare Santa Clause with what other lies we are willing to digest growing up.

We lie to our friends and family for the most trivial of reasons, yet the general public cannot phathom the idea their government is lieing to them.

Yes we can. You need to stop acting like you bunch of people are the only ones smart enough to see through even the most simplest of lies.

However, the main difference between Flat Earther's and "Round Earthers" (when did this ever become a term?), is that globular Earth wraps theories around reality, while Flat Earthers wrap their reality around a theory.

A precondition inviting to this level of gullibility will put you on a path that will never require you to align whatever you can actually observe with reality, since your reality is already defined by a theory you so firmly believe.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: NONE of the visitors that came with the precondition of thinking the Earth is flat, kept believing the Earth was flat, when they actually got to check out all the equipment used for my high altitude balloon. They even had the opportunity to go locate the package after landing, but only some of them did, since watching live images from the balloon were enough evidence for them.

Next launch (march/april), even their responses will be documented, so I can show people like you, that when people in doubt are presented with real evidence, and they can witness everything from the get-go, they change.

But, this is the internet. Even with eye-witness reports, raw unedited material, data-sheets and documented construction of everything, people like you still wouldn't believe anything at all. Not even if you sat on ISS watching the globe as you orbited it. Simply because your reality is based on a theory and not the other way around.
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2016, 12:06:41 PM »
I always like to compare Santa Clause with what other lies we are willing to digest growing up.

We lie to our friends and family for the most trivial of reasons, yet the general public cannot phathom the idea their government is lieing to them.

Yes we can. You need to stop acting like you bunch of people are the only ones smart enough to see through even the most simplest of lies.

However, the main difference between Flat Earther's and "Round Earthers" (when did this ever become a term?), is that globular Earth wraps theories around reality, while Flat Earthers wrap their reality around a theory.

A precondition inviting to this level of gullibility will put you on a path that will never require you to align whatever you can actually observe with reality, since your reality is already defined by a theory you so firmly believe.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: NONE of the visitors that came with the precondition of thinking the Earth is flat, kept believing the Earth was flat, when they actually got to check out all the equipment used for my high altitude balloon. They even had the opportunity to go locate the package after landing, but only some of them did, since watching live images from the balloon were enough evidence for them.

Next launch (march/april), even their responses will be documented, so I can show people like you, that when people in doubt are presented with real evidence, and they can witness everything from the get-go, they change.

But, this is the internet. Even with eye-witness reports, raw unedited material, data-sheets and documented construction of everything, people like you still wouldn't believe anything at all. Not even if you sat on ISS watching the globe as you orbited it. Simply because your reality is based on a theory and not the other way around.

Hmm. You can see through lies can you?

Well then, do tell. Tell us a lie, conspiracy, etc. that you DO subscribe to. I'd like to hear it.

And if you do subscribe to any official story being false, then also let us know where the lies end and begin?

Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2016, 12:14:36 PM »
I always like to compare Santa Clause with what other lies we are willing to digest growing up.

We lie to our friends and family for the most trivial of reasons, yet the general public cannot phathom the idea their government is lieing to them.

Yes we can. You need to stop acting like you bunch of people are the only ones smart enough to see through even the most simplest of lies.

However, the main difference between Flat Earther's and "Round Earthers" (when did this ever become a term?), is that globular Earth wraps theories around reality, while Flat Earthers wrap their reality around a theory.

A precondition inviting to this level of gullibility will put you on a path that will never require you to align whatever you can actually observe with reality, since your reality is already defined by a theory you so firmly believe.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: NONE of the visitors that came with the precondition of thinking the Earth is flat, kept believing the Earth was flat, when they actually got to check out all the equipment used for my high altitude balloon. They even had the opportunity to go locate the package after landing, but only some of them did, since watching live images from the balloon were enough evidence for them.

Next launch (march/april), even their responses will be documented, so I can show people like you, that when people in doubt are presented with real evidence, and they can witness everything from the get-go, they change.

But, this is the internet. Even with eye-witness reports, raw unedited material, data-sheets and documented construction of everything, people like you still wouldn't believe anything at all. Not even if you sat on ISS watching the globe as you orbited it. Simply because your reality is based on a theory and not the other way around.

Hmm. You can see through lies can you?

Well then, do tell. Tell us a lie, conspiracy, etc. that you DO subscribe to. I'd like to hear it.

And if you do subscribe to any official story being false, then also let us know where the lies end and begin?

Why would I even waste my time on that upon YOUR request?

I'm not here for general conspiracy theories. I have no interest in it, and frankly, I don't care about what's wrong with the world. My biggest interest is Astronomy and Astrophysics, and qua my education this is what I stick my fingers in. Being on a forum called "The Flat Earth Society", I do not have an interest taking a stance in 9/11, Bilderberg and other topics for conspiracy theories.

What you did there though, was diverting from the actual message of my reply, and talk about something else. You want to catch me writing something you can cling on to and point fingers at that relates to something completely different, because you have no real response to what I wrote. Word of advice: You don't HAVE to reply to everything. If you do not reply, it doesn't mean you lost a debate, it doesn't mean that you agree with me, it doesn't mean that what I said is wrong. It simply means you have nothing to say. Don't try and change the subject.

If any of what I said doesn't strike you as being "truthful", I guess you'll just have to wait until I actually publish _everything_, or in fact, buy a ticket and come join the open house on launch day.
Ignored by Intikam since 2016.

Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2016, 12:36:54 PM »
I always like to compare Santa Clause with what other lies we are willing to digest growing up.

We lie to our friends and family for the most trivial of reasons, yet the general public cannot phathom the idea their government is lieing to them.

Yes we can. You need to stop acting like you bunch of people are the only ones smart enough to see through even the most simplest of lies.

However, the main difference between Flat Earther's and "Round Earthers" (when did this ever become a term?), is that globular Earth wraps theories around reality, while Flat Earthers wrap their reality around a theory.

A precondition inviting to this level of gullibility will put you on a path that will never require you to align whatever you can actually observe with reality, since your reality is already defined by a theory you so firmly believe.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: NONE of the visitors that came with the precondition of thinking the Earth is flat, kept believing the Earth was flat, when they actually got to check out all the equipment used for my high altitude balloon. They even had the opportunity to go locate the package after landing, but only some of them did, since watching live images from the balloon were enough evidence for them.

Next launch (march/april), even their responses will be documented, so I can show people like you, that when people in doubt are presented with real evidence, and they can witness everything from the get-go, they change.

But, this is the internet. Even with eye-witness reports, raw unedited material, data-sheets and documented construction of everything, people like you still wouldn't believe anything at all. Not even if you sat on ISS watching the globe as you orbited it. Simply because your reality is based on a theory and not the other way around.

Hmm. You can see through lies can you?

Well then, do tell. Tell us a lie, conspiracy, etc. that you DO subscribe to. I'd like to hear it.

And if you do subscribe to any official story being false, then also let us know where the lies end and begin?

Why would I even waste my time on that upon YOUR request?

I'm not here for general conspiracy theories. I have no interest in it, and frankly, I don't care about what's wrong with the world. My biggest interest is Astronomy and Astrophysics, and qua my education this is what I stick my fingers in. Being on a forum called "The Flat Earth Society", I do not have an interest taking a stance in 9/11, Bilderberg and other topics for conspiracy theories.

What you did there though, was diverting from the actual message of my reply, and talk about something else. You want to catch me writing something you can cling on to and point fingers at that relates to something completely different, because you have no real response to what I wrote. Word of advice: You don't HAVE to reply to everything. If you do not reply, it doesn't mean you lost a debate, it doesn't mean that you agree with me, it doesn't mean that what I said is wrong. It simply means you have nothing to say. Don't try and change the subject.

If any of what I said doesn't strike you as being "truthful", I guess you'll just have to wait until I actually publish _everything_, or in fact, buy a ticket and come join the open house on launch day.

Your first sentence when you replied to my comment was "yes we can".

That means you can see through lies the government gives us.

I was asking for an example of a lie you can see through, and I even followed that request up by asking you to explain to us how you know where the lies begin and end.

You say you can see through lies. I'd simply like an example.

This thread is about hoaxes. Do you have a hoax that you subscribe to?

I don't care to discuss individual hoaxes either. But if you do subscribe to a hoax, how do you know it's a hoax?

That's the discussion I am trying to have. Where do you draw the line as far as what you have been told is a lie?

The only lies that are actual lies are the ones you believe? Is that your stance?

Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2016, 03:38:31 PM »
In all honesty, you started by "attacking"  me by implying that my gullible nature as a so-called "round earth believer"  (and yes  this is implicit) makes me incapable of seeing through lies. Afterwards, you make this about governments lieing, very specifically. All I actually hinted to you is that just because you know the earth is a globe, and therefore don't believe the flat earth hypothesis, doesn't make you incapable of spotting a lie. This is quite frankly why I'm here for the debate, including, and most importantly, to inform those few that haven't fully bought into the religion that is flat earth hypothesis just yet.

Asking for an example of a government lie I can see through? Take my word for it, really, how old are you?
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Offline LuggerSailor

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Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2016, 11:34:59 PM »
http://hoaxes.org/af_database/permalink/planetary_alignment_decreases_gravity

Quote
During an interview on BBC Radio 2, on the morning of April 1, 1976, the British astronomer Patrick Moore announced that an extraordinary astronomical event was about to occur.

At 9:47, Moore declared, "Jump now!" A minute passed, and then the BBC switchboard lit up with dozens of people calling in to report that the experiment had worked!

Is it a wonder the general public will believe anything they are told?

The "dozens of people" that fell for this April Fool joke were probably the flatties and other conspiracy theory believers.
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Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2016, 02:40:29 AM »
In all honesty, you started by "attacking"  me by implying that my gullible nature as a so-called "round earth believer"  (and yes  this is implicit) makes me incapable of seeing through lies. Afterwards, you make this about governments lieing, very specifically. All I actually hinted to you is that just because you know the earth is a globe, and therefore don't believe the flat earth hypothesis, doesn't make you incapable of spotting a lie. This is quite frankly why I'm here for the debate, including, and most importantly, to inform those few that haven't fully bought into the religion that is flat earth hypothesis just yet.

Asking for an example of a government lie I can see through? Take my word for it, really, how old are you?

You've missed the entire point of my questioning...

And that is:

But if you do subscribe to a hoax, how do you know it's a hoax?

It's a very easy point I am trying to make. If there is a hoax/lie (major cover-up) that you subscribe to, the question is : How do you know it's a hoax? Where is YOUR proof?

Most all government conspiracies are accepted as fact by the general public.

With that being said, I find it comical that most people who do not subscribe to the bigger conspiracies, will still somewhere have their own conspiracy.

So the question is how to you know it's a conspiracy? The government says its not, the mainstream media says its not, and the general public says its not. So how do you know?

It's called intuition.

You don't even have to name a specific conspiracy.

Just tell us how you know that it is a conspiracy, and how you draw the line at what is a lie and what is not?

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2016, 12:11:29 PM »

So the question is how to you know it's a conspiracy? The government says its not, the mainstream media says its not, and the general public says its not. So how do you know?

It's called intuition.


Did you really just say that you decide what's a conspiracy and what isn't, purely based on "intuition"...     

My wife uses what she calls "womens intuition",   and I can testify to the fact she is almost never right.  :)   

Don't let me give you the impression, that I don't believe in "gut feel" or "intuition" especially when it comes to dealing with people,  lots of sub verbal clues and subtle body language or facial expressions all combine to give you a "feel" of the person you are interacting with.  Some people are exceptionally good at "reading people" and it comes naturally,  also some professions are highly trained to pick up the clues as to when someone is lying.  Like some police investigators.

But when it comes to hard scientific evidence,  intuition is not a valid basis for deciding truth.  Science and Maths leaves no room for lies. 



Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2016, 04:22:18 PM »
  Science and Maths leaves no room for lies.

You have continued to use this thread as a personally discussion about Flat Earth vs Round Earth.

That isn't the particular topic of this thread.

In regards to the conversation between you and I, only you have mentioned Flat Earth.

This topic is about Hoaxes and how the general public can be fooled so easily.

So let's forget FE for just a minute. Leave that aside.

Let's talk about intuition, and please let's leave comments about your wife out of it. It's irrelevant and off topic.

Since you do not want to address my questions directly, I will submit and move onto your preferred argument.

Your intuition tells you that all the science you have learned is correct. You believe what you are reading and learning to be factual. Correct?

So. Your complete understanding about let's call it, "How the world works" mostly came from books written by other people. You believe what you have read.

Well I have a read a book about a man that met with aliens and all the world leaders underground and they chose him to spread a message.

I have also read a book about how Ross Perot, a previous presidential candidate, was funding a secret war against aliens here on earth.

Now. I Personally DO NOT Subscribe to those book, nor do I believe them. I have a suspicion that you do not either.

Now both of these books, among many others about alien encounters are published and readily available in public libraries. Under the Non-Fiction section.

If I taught a child from birth to adult that those books were factual, as an adult no one could possibly make him think another way without constant and equal conviction. He would always accept that as fact and never submit to another way of thinking.

Now you subscribe to science. You believe what you have read in science books.

You say experiments have been made. Yes many have. We can see it all around us in the form of technology.

However, many experiments are debatable and will always remain debatable.

Also, just because an experiment has been published does mean it couldn't be fraudulent.

And that is my only point in this argument. How do YOU know what is fraudulent and what is not?

Where do you draw the line?

Let me give you an example:

I can read many books, see many videos, and even mainstream television will have news reports, t.v. shows on the History channel, etc. all about proof of aliens among us.

I don't believe in any of that. I believe that is all made up. And that is where I draw the line.

Yet I have no proof. But my intuition tells me that its all made up. Why? Because I have seen so much fake stuff on t.v. to know it's not real.

This is the same way I feel about NASA and supposed space exploration. I personally don't believe man has ever been in space. I cannot prove that, I can only look at the anomolies in the official story and use my intuition to draw a conclusion.

See you've made this into some kind of debate that never existed. This just talking and giving thoughts and ideas. Differnt ways of thinking.

Most people accept every single aspect of learned knowledge growing up and KNOW they are right!

Let's take Magellan for example. Most people site him as being the first person to circumnavigate the world in a ship. Well he died during that voyage and you can end there with that story.

Once that voyage was over, the records were locked away in the queens diary for a number of years before the public was made aware.

Hmm.. Main Captain dies before voyage is over, secrets kept from the public...

My intuition tells me I smell a rat.... and more anomolies can be found in the official STORY of Magellan.

I submit they are just stories, yet the general public accepts them as fact.

As a free thinker, I find that both humorous and frustrating.

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2016, 10:10:33 PM »
  Science and Maths leaves no room for lies.

You have continued to use this thread as a personally discussion about Flat Earth vs Round Earth.

That isn't the particular topic of this thread.

In regards to the conversation between you and I, only you have mentioned Flat Earth.

This topic is about Hoaxes and how the general public can be fooled so easily.

So let's forget FE for just a minute. Leave that aside.


That's very telling,   I never mentioned flat earth,   you inferred it from my comment  "Science and Maths leaves no room for lies."   why did you take that to mean I'm talking about flat earth?

And as far as "continuing to use this thread",   no, that was my first post in this thread.  I'm beginning to think your intuition is not as finely tuned as you seem to think,  you consistently make simple errors of fact.

 


Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2016, 10:23:45 PM »
  Science and Maths leaves no room for lies.

You have continued to use this thread as a personally discussion about Flat Earth vs Round Earth.

That isn't the particular topic of this thread.

In regards to the conversation between you and I, only you have mentioned Flat Earth.

This topic is about Hoaxes and how the general public can be fooled so easily.

So let's forget FE for just a minute. Leave that aside.


That's very telling,   I never mentioned flat earth,   you inferred it from my comment  "Science and Maths leaves no room for lies."   why did you take that to mean I'm talking about flat earth?

And as far as "continuing to use this thread",   no, that was my first post in this thread.  I'm beginning to think your intuition is not as finely tuned as you seem to think,  you consistently make simple errors of fact.

 

I made a mistake and assumed I was still conversing with andruszkow. I didnt realize this was a new person stepping in. I apologize.

But hey, while we are at it, what were you implying about "math and science"?

You've asked me what I thought you meant, I figured the FE. So what were you getting at?

Still keeping in mind this is about hoaxes and the gullibility of the general public, how do math and sciences play a role?

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2016, 10:39:12 PM »
Still keeping in mind this is about hoaxes and the gullibility of the general public, how do math and sciences play a role?

Carl Sagan,  described what he called a "baloney detector"  basically,  it's a tool kit of questions that you can ask to determine if what you are being told is "baloney"

You can google it for more background,  but to save you some time, here is the main points.

1. Wherever possible there must be independent confirmation of the “facts.”

2. Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view.

3. Arguments from authority carry little weight — “authorities” have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that in science there are no authorities; at most, there are experts.

4. Spin more than one hypothesis. If there’s something to be explained, think of all the different ways in which it could be explained. Then think of tests by which you might systematically disprove each of the alternatives. What survives, the hypothesis that resists disproof in this Darwinian selection among “multiple working hypotheses,” has a much better chance of being the right answer than if you had simply run with the first idea that caught your fancy.

5. Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it’s yours. It’s only a way station in the pursuit of knowledge. Ask yourself why you like the idea. Compare it fairly with the alternatives. See if you can find reasons for rejecting it. If you don’t, others will.

6. Quantify. If whatever it is you’re explaining has some measure, some numerical quantity attached to it, you’ll be much better able to discriminate among competing hypotheses. What is vague and qualitative is open to many explanations. Of course there are truths to be sought in the many qualitative issues we are obliged to confront, but finding them is more challenging.

7. If there’s a chain of argument, every link in the chain must work (including the premise) — not just most of them.

8. Occam’s Razor. This convenient rule-of-thumb urges us when faced with two hypotheses that explain the data equally well to choose the simpler.

9. Always ask whether the hypothesis can be, at least in principle, falsified. Propositions that are untestable, unfalsifiable are not worth much. Consider the grand idea that our Universe and everything in it is just an elementary particle — an electron, say — in a much bigger Cosmos. But if we can never acquire information from outside our Universe, is not the idea incapable of disproof? You must be able to check assertions out. Inveterate skeptics must be given the chance to follow your reasoning, to duplicate your experiments and see if they get the same result.


Baloney is a peculiar American term,  in Australia,  I'd call it a bullshit detector.


« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 10:41:16 PM by Rayzor »

Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2016, 02:15:23 AM »
Baloney is a peculiar American term,  in Australia,  I'd call it a bullshit detector.

Good lesson on lie detection.

I see a lot of those inherent qualities in myself, such as "question everything".

The mainstream science community has made definitive assertions.

I maintain that while many science experiments have propelled technology, I still do not find any proof of how the universe exists, works, or formed.

Nor do I find any scientic proof for the shape of the earth.

FE and RE proponents mostly both point to experiments done ages ago. I personally do not find either of those arguments definitive.

And when it does come to the shape of the earth, I wholeheartedly believe NASA to be a fraud.

Which leads me to believe that the images we have seen from "space" of a RE, to be fake.

The most intuitive reason I can give that Space Exploration doesn't exist is because the general public, albeit, "wealthy" should be able to go to "space" by now.

We've been "promised" for a long time by a very orchestrated machine of lies and deception.

Scientists have been debating still on how the Grand Canyon was formed, yet they can tell me what the Sun is made of?

I don't buy it!

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Offline Munky

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Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2016, 04:54:25 AM »
You question things but rule out things that do not support your argument. You cannot be objective yet rule out things that invalidate your argument.

You are probably not looking in the right places if you do not think that science has helped us in our understanding of the universe. Or you are conveniently discrediting that information.

You do not find any scientific proof for the shape of the earth because you have conveniently discredited it, even though you have not found any proof of the earth not being round.

you do not find FE or RE's experiments definitive because you have not seen the results yourself.

If you believe NASA to be frauds, then what about the other companies that have put things into orbit? Space X, The countless companies that have Satellites in orbit. Dish TV, Direct TV, intelisat, Etc.. Do you believe they are also frauds? Are they conveniently part of the fraud?

The general public have not gone to space unless you consider the Scientist that have been sent to space by multiple countries. By "general public" I assume you mean all the people that they have not already sent to space. The reason being are two fold. Cost and safety. It is too costly to send objects into space currently. Private Companies like Space X hope to change that by pioneering reusable Stage 1 Rocket booster technology so that they have Stage 1 systems that are 100 percent safe, land 100 percent of the time, and can be reused for far longer than current Space Craft technology. Much in the same respects as it would be extremely cost prohibitive for them to build an airplane every time one took off only to destroy it immediately right after landing, I would imagine if that were the case then a plane ticket would cost 250,000 for one seat as well. If Space X is successful, where Virgin failed with their design, The cost could be 50,000 within 5 years, and much less in the next 10 years for a sight seeing flight.

Oh yeah, there was a time when Airplanes were not as reliable as they are today... It took nearly 30-50 years time to iron out the kinks to make commercial Air flight the booming industry that it is today. And still to this day airplanes crash and go down. There is Inherit danger still there.

Who is orchestrating this machine? And where is your proof that this orchestration is occurring? If you cannot prove it then it is just here-say and invalidates your argument.

Which scientists are debating on how the grand canyon was formed? Maybe one scientist does not agree with the current theory, but thats the way that science works, the scientist that doesnt agree would have to find proof of his counter theory. still to this day there is no concrete proof of the Flat earth theory. Which leaves the Round Earth Theory in tact with all the experiments that we can still perform now that validates it. With the 24 hour sun in the south poles that throws the flat earth map with its "Rotating Sun in the sky and moon" out of the window.

If you can explain how 24 hour sun in the South pole occurs on a flat earth model, then I will concede and become a FE'er

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Gullibility of the public
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2016, 08:09:09 AM »
The most intuitive reason I can give that Space Exploration doesn't exist is because the general public, albeit, "wealthy" should be able to go to "space" by now.

I think you'll find that Mark Shuttleworth was a paying tourist.  He went on a mission to the ISS,  it cost him $20 million for the experience.

As for comparing the composition of the sun with formation of the grand canyon,   two entirely different things,  with the sun we can look at the spectral lines and identify the elements with precision,  with the formation of the Grand Canyon the evidence is in the geology and history of the continental plates,  you can easily have multiple theories about how the Grand Canyon formed,  but there can be no argument about the spectral absorbtion lines in sunlight.

Apples and Oranges.