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Offline beardo

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2014, 10:41:27 AM »
No. But people could pay if they want to, to support the artist.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 10:44:00 AM by beardo »
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2014, 10:52:46 AM »
But shouldn't entertainers and artists have the freedom to charge what they want?
They're not me, so fuck their freedoms.
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Offline beardo

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2014, 11:23:47 AM »
Okay, they should have the freedom and right to charge what they want. But should they? It begs the question if they're in it for their love of doing what they're doing, or just for the money.
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Re: Piracy
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2014, 11:32:23 AM »
Okay, they should have the freedom and right to charge what they want. But should they? It begs the question if they're in it for their love of doing what they're doing, or just for the money.

Can't it be both??  I see no compelling reason why an artist or any discipline should not receive compensation for their work.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2014, 11:52:26 AM »
Okay, they should have the freedom and right to charge what they want. But should they? It begs the question if they're in it for their love of doing what they're doing, or just for the money.
You can ask that of any profession.

Simply put, you can't perform art without being alive and you can't live without food, water, and shelter.  Money allows you to have what you need to perform art.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Onix

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2014, 01:59:27 PM »
Entertainment and art should be free.

No it shouldn't. If someone is spending all their time trying to entertain others...then they should be compensated.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2014, 02:06:19 PM »
Okay, they should have the freedom and right to charge what they want. But should they? It begs the question if they're in it for their love of doing what they're doing, or just for the money.

People need money to live, beardo. If they can't make a living off of their art, then surely that would affect the quality of their art.

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Offline Crudblud

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2014, 02:30:17 PM »
Piracy seems to be talked about most by the people and companies who can afford to deal with their claimed loss of sales as a result of it. Industries worth tens of billions, artists worth millions, products also worth millions, these, as far as I can tell, are not being harmed in any way that could justifiably be complained about. I don't think such superstars could realistically be put in a position of poverty by someone choosing to torrent their latest album, or movie, because regardless of piracy they still make enough money to own five houses and a dozen Italian sports cars — in their case, the question of making enough money to live is immaterial. The independent artist seems somehow less troubled by it, perhaps because they are more interested in the work itself, rather than the work as a means to acquire wealth, and also because their fans tend to be more appreciative of the work and the effort behind it, rather than treating it as product to be consumed then thrown away when then next batch of product is released. Obviously these are generalisations, we can point to a number of exceptions to both of them, but I think they are more fact than fiction overall.

I'm wondering, though, to what extent some "artists" are deserving of compensation for their work, and the gross disparity between the apparent monetary value of "pop" and "serious" art. For example: someone who writes a song that goes like "yo, uhuh, what, phat booty bitches, uh, yeah" for approximately four minutes could potentially become a millionaire on the strength of that one song, while a composer of "serious" music is very lucky if they can even get by on commissions, recordings, performances of their work, and they are usually either forced to teach or get some other job as the mainstay of their income.

Is it at all justifiable that this is the case; that the writer of a song which could easily be thrown together in the space of an hour or two is recipient of a six or seven figure sum in recompense for doing approximately nothing, while a work which is put together over many months, perhaps even years, is performed once or twice, recorded if lucky in a very limited release, left for dead soon after, and the person responsible for its realisation receives a meagre sum for their efforts? I'm not trying to say that "pop" music is necessarily crap or that "serious" music is necessarily good, because that isn't true, any genre or tradition in any kind of art has to its name good, bad and inconsequential works, rather that works of quality in both fields are not valued equally, and that even bad works in the former are valued greater than good works in the latter.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2014, 03:08:14 PM »
If it wasn't justifiable, what sort of ridiculous restrictions would have to be put in place to make sure people don't make more than they "deserve" out of their work, and who would put those restrictions in place?

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Offline beardo

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2014, 03:37:53 PM »
I see no compelling reason why an artist or any discipline should not receive compensation for their work.
Entertainment and art should be free.
No it shouldn't. If someone is spending all their time trying to entertain others...then they should be compensated.
Entertainment and art should be free.
No it shouldn't. If someone is spending all their time trying to entertain others...then they should be compensated.
An artist should create/perform their art because they love doing so, not because they want to get rich.

you can't perform art without being alive and you can't live without food, water, and shelter.  Money allows you to have what you need to perform art.
People need money to live, beardo. If they can't make a living off of their art, then surely that would affect the quality of their art.
Donations, and a fucking job. Art should be a hobby.

The only compensation an artist or entertainer should require is the knowledge that their work have touched and entertained other people.
The Mastery.

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Offline Crudblud

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2014, 04:13:09 PM »
If it wasn't justifiable, what sort of ridiculous restrictions would have to be put in place to make sure people don't make more than they "deserve" out of their work, and who would put those restrictions in place?

I don't know, I don't believe in "ranking" art on an objective level, nor do I like the idea of placing restrictions on art. Mostly I'm lamenting the fact that so many works of quality languish in the depths of relative or near total obscurity while throwaway nothings are lauded beyond hyperbole and showered with money. Justifiable or not, I don't think a culture of wilful mediocrity is healthy for anyone.

Re: Piracy
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2014, 04:54:15 PM »
Sometimes I sit at home and pirate all my own music. And I ALWAYS SEED FOR NINETY DAYS.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2014, 04:56:25 PM »
That's a good boy.
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Re: Piracy
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2014, 06:19:03 PM »
An artist should create/perform their art because they love doing so, not because they want to get rich.

Why?

Quote
Donations, and a fucking job. Art should be a hobby.

The only compensation an artist or entertainer should require is the knowledge that their work have touched and entertained other people.

Becoming really good at something takes a lot of time and concentration.  This can be quiet a hindrance if you have to go push paper for 8 hours, commute for 2 hours, feed your family, bathe and sleep.  If you had it your way, a lot of artists, of all disciplines, would never reach their potential.

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2014, 07:19:29 PM »
Yay! It's back!

Take that Blanko!

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2014, 08:02:45 PM »
Becoming really good at something takes a lot of time and concentration.  This can be quiet a hindrance if you have to go push paper for 8 hours, commute for 2 hours, feed your family, bathe and sleep.  If you had it your way, a lot of artists, of all disciplines, would never reach their potential.
Well, back when artists were piss-poor, art was actually good. Now it's... pop-culture. Talk about reaching someone's potential.
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Offline markjo

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2014, 08:09:58 PM »
You've deprived the artist of the money they would get through a sale.
The industry does a pretty good job of that already.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2014, 08:12:03 PM »
Well, back when artists were piss-poor, art was actually good.

Correlation, causation, etc. Also, most poor artists never had their art recognized as good until after they were dead, but whether art is good or not is irrelevant, since it is just an opinion.

The industry does a pretty good job of that already.

Artists can choose not to sign with a company. They sign to reach a wider audience.


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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2014, 08:32:41 PM »
Correlation, causation, etc.
But that argument swings both ways.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Piracy
« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2014, 09:00:00 PM »
But that argument swings both ways.

I never said otherwise.