[Lord Dave]

This is literally the first time Illegals have crossed the border with children and got caught. 


Seriously, this zero tollerance policy is shit.  It hasn't been an issue beforebut now it is. 




Also boots: I believe the dems are fighting the bill because its less a "Here is a quick fix" and more of a "Well, lets pile in our immigration law wish list in here while we have such a hot button issue."


The Republicans (and probably dems) are playing politics.  Using this humanitarian issue to get their immigration policies in place and anyone who won't vote for it is evil because families.

Are you saying the Dems are willing to see families split up just so they don't have to accept some immigration law they don't like?!!!! What about the children?!!!! Animals I tell you! Animals!

This is the first time Illegals have crossed the border with children and been charged. Why make a law and then have a policy to not enforce it? Rather change the law!

I believe the Republicans have or are planning to introduce a fairly specific bill but I would have to look into that more. But the Dems are also free to make a proposal as narrow as they want. Why haven't they? Because this issue is playing well for them politically. Finding a congressional solution is not in their best interest politically.

I don't know, but considering Trump was the one who made the policy change, I'm gonna go with yes.  I mean, he could literalky go back to the policy 1 year ago and all would be fine.


Also, the dems can't put a law up for vote.  McConnel and Ryan decide what gets voted on. 

[Boots]

This is literally the first time Illegals have crossed the border with children and got caught. 


Seriously, this zero tollerance policy is shit.  It hasn't been an issue beforebut now it is. 




Also boots: I believe the dems are fighting the bill because its less a "Here is a quick fix" and more of a "Well, lets pile in our immigration law wish list in here while we have such a hot button issue."


The Republicans (and probably dems) are playing politics.  Using this humanitarian issue to get their immigration policies in place and anyone who won't vote for it is evil because families.

Are you saying the Dems are willing to see families split up just so they don't have to accept some immigration law they don't like?!!!! What about the children?!!!! Animals I tell you! Animals!

This is the first time Illegals have crossed the border with children and been charged. Why make a law and then have a policy to not enforce it? Rather change the law!

I believe the Republicans have or are planning to introduce a fairly specific bill but I would have to look into that more. But the Dems are also free to make a proposal as narrow as they want. Why haven't they? Because this issue is playing well for them politically. Finding a congressional solution is not in their best interest politically.

I don't know, but considering Trump was the one who made the policy change, I'm gonna go with yes.  I mean, he could literalky go back to the policy 1 year ago and all would be fine.


Also, the dems can't put a law up for vote.  McConnel and Ryan decide what gets voted on.

Yes. Trump could go back to a policy of not enforcing the law and controlling the border. Why would he do that? If the issue is the children make an amendment and be done with it.

[Lord Dave]

This is literally the first time Illegals have crossed the border with children and got caught. 


Seriously, this zero tollerance policy is shit.  It hasn't been an issue beforebut now it is. 




Also boots: I believe the dems are fighting the bill because its less a "Here is a quick fix" and more of a "Well, lets pile in our immigration law wish list in here while we have such a hot button issue."


The Republicans (and probably dems) are playing politics.  Using this humanitarian issue to get their immigration policies in place and anyone who won't vote for it is evil because families.

Are you saying the Dems are willing to see families split up just so they don't have to accept some immigration law they don't like?!!!! What about the children?!!!! Animals I tell you! Animals!

This is the first time Illegals have crossed the border with children and been charged. Why make a law and then have a policy to not enforce it? Rather change the law!

I believe the Republicans have or are planning to introduce a fairly specific bill but I would have to look into that more. But the Dems are also free to make a proposal as narrow as they want. Why haven't they? Because this issue is playing well for them politically. Finding a congressional solution is not in their best interest politically.

I don't know, but considering Trump was the one who made the policy change, I'm gonna go with yes.  I mean, he could literalky go back to the policy 1 year ago and all would be fine.


Also, the dems can't put a law up for vote.  McConnel and Ryan decide what gets voted on.

Yes. Trump could go back to a policy of not enforcing the law and controlling the border. Why would he do that? If the issue is the children make an amendment and be done with it.

I mean go back until said amendment is written.


Of course, this could be a ploy to force change quickly. 

[Tom Bishop]

Telemundo was busted for faking the widely spread kids-in-cages scene.

https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/telemundo-busted-making-fake-news-to-cause-hysteria/

[Tom Bishop]

BTW what seems to be your position on this issue is out of line with both the Republicans and Democrats. Perhaps a few White Supremacists and fanatical rednecks might see it your way.

Do you mean my side of law and order and honesty?

Illegal immigrants who choose to return to their country are reunited with their families in short order. Also, families who apply for asylum at legal ports of entry do not get separated. The only families who are being separated for any length of time are those who crossed the border illegally, but still choose to apply for asylum once caught. By law (Flores) these children cannot be held in detention with their parents while their parents asylum claim is being processed.

This could all be solved by a simple act of congress if the Democrats would agree. How anybody could defend not agreeing to this simple amendment is beyond me.

I agree. Families belong together... in their home country or in the country they are legally permitted to stay.

If you don't want to be arrested and be separated from your family, don't do anything illegal that will cause you to be arrested and separated from your family by authorities. Its that simple. The border isn't a free-for-all. If you illegally enter a country you will be prosecuted. That's the way it works in Mexico, and that's the way it works here.

If you want to apply for asylum, do it the right way -- otherwise you will get arrested and sent to jail, where your children cannot follow you.

[Boots]

BTW what seems to be your position on this issue is out of line with both the Republicans and Democrats. Perhaps a few White Supremacists and fanatical rednecks might see it your way.

Do you mean my side of law and order and honesty?

Illegal immigrants who choose to return to their country are reunited with their families in short order. Also, families who apply for asylum at legal ports of entry do not get separated. The only families who are being separated for any length of time are those who crossed the border illegally, but still choose to apply for asylum once caught. By law (Flores) these children cannot be held in detention with their parents while their parents asylum claim is being processed.

This could all be solved by a simple act of congress if the Democrats would agree. How anybody could defend not agreeing to this simple amendment is beyond me.

I agree. Families belong together... in their home country or in the country they are legally permitted to stay.

If you don't want to be arrested and be separated from your family, don't do anything illegal that will cause you to be arrested and separated from your family by authorities. Its that simple. If you want to apply for asylum, do it the right way -- otherwise you will get arrested and sent to jail, where your children cannot follow you.

I mean the Republican party is trying to change the law to allow Illegal Immigrant families to stay together.

Also, they want a certain number of immigrants while you sound like you don't want any.

[Lord Dave]

I'm sure you feel quite good about yourself so let me ask you a question. If you were in a situation where you had to choose between breaking the law and getting killed or abused or watching your family members get killed or abused which would you choose? If you chose obeying the law I think maybe you're the bad person here.

Two wrongs don't make a right, Boots. If I was in a bad situation I would move somewhere else in the country for my better opportunity. I wouldn't move to Canada illegally to steal from Canadian Taxpayers.

You'd move with... what money?
And this assumes you have a place to go that's better and not just as dangerous as where you are now.

If you want to apply for asylum, do it the right way -- otherwise you will get arrested and sent to jail, where your children cannot follow you.

Except you have to apply for asylum at the border or within the country.  And if the border guards say "Sorry, no more asylum today.  Try again later." well... you could be waiting a long time.  Food, water, shelter.  These things become an issue the longer you wait.  Woudln't you say?

I mean, if I had a choice between maybe saving my family by doing something illegal and not doing anything illegal but likely losing my family, I'd do the illegal thing.

[honk]

Illegal immigrants who choose to return to their country are reunited with their families in short order. Also, families who apply for asylum at legal ports of entry do not get separated. The only families who are being separated for any length of time are those who crossed the border illegally, but still choose to apply for asylum once caught. By law (Flores) these children cannot be held in detention with their parents while their parents asylum claim is being processed.

I'm not talking about applying for asylum; I'm talking about them being charged with illegal entry and prosecuted, which is what the Trump Administration is now doing.

How anybody could defend not agreeing to this simple amendment is beyond me.

I'm sure this sounded very witty and clever in your head.

[Boots]

Illegal immigrants who choose to return to their country are reunited with their families in short order. Also, families who apply for asylum at legal ports of entry do not get separated. The only families who are being separated for any length of time are those who crossed the border illegally, but still choose to apply for asylum once caught. By law (Flores) these children cannot be held in detention with their parents while their parents asylum claim is being processed.

I'm not talking about applying for asylum; I'm talking about them being charged with illegal entry and prosecuted, which is what the Trump Administration is now doing.

How anybody could defend not agreeing to this simple amendment is beyond me.

I'm sure this sounded very witty and clever in your head.

Illegal immigrants get the option to apply for asylum as well, it's just a longer process because they broke the law.

Congress is set to pass the witty and clever legislation tomorrow.

[Lord Dave]

Illegal immigrants who choose to return to their country are reunited with their families in short order. Also, families who apply for asylum at legal ports of entry do not get separated. The only families who are being separated for any length of time are those who crossed the border illegally, but still choose to apply for asylum once caught. By law (Flores) these children cannot be held in detention with their parents while their parents asylum claim is being processed.

I'm not talking about applying for asylum; I'm talking about them being charged with illegal entry and prosecuted, which is what the Trump Administration is now doing.

How anybody could defend not agreeing to this simple amendment is beyond me.

I'm sure this sounded very witty and clever in your head.

Illegal immigrants get the option to apply for asylum as well, it's just a longer process because they broke the law.

Congress is set to pass the witty and clever legislation tomorrow.

And then the Republicans can say "Look!  We're immigrant friendly!"

[Boots]

Illegal immigrants who choose to return to their country are reunited with their families in short order. Also, families who apply for asylum at legal ports of entry do not get separated. The only families who are being separated for any length of time are those who crossed the border illegally, but still choose to apply for asylum once caught. By law (Flores) these children cannot be held in detention with their parents while their parents asylum claim is being processed.

I'm not talking about applying for asylum; I'm talking about them being charged with illegal entry and prosecuted, which is what the Trump Administration is now doing.

How anybody could defend not agreeing to this simple amendment is beyond me.

I'm sure this sounded very witty and clever in your head.

Illegal immigrants get the option to apply for asylum as well, it's just a longer process because they broke the law.

Congress is set to pass the witty and clever legislation tomorrow.

And then the Republicans can say "Look!  We're immigrant friendly!"

With the equivalent sincerity with which the Dems said, "But the children! What about the families and the children?!"

[honk]

Illegal immigrants get the option to apply for asylum as well, it's just a longer process because they broke the law.

Again, this is not what we're talking about. What's happening here is Trump inventing a problem that most people would agree is morally horrific to try and win concessions from Congress in exchange for the problem being solved. Asylum has nothing to do with it. Trump almost certainly has no idea how the asylum process even works.

Congress is set to pass the witty and clever legislation tomorrow.

whooosh

[Tom Bishop]

CNN interview with US Border Patrol Agent (Video in link):

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/19/cnn-border-patrol-agent-speechless/

CNN brought on Chris Cabrera, a spokesperson for the National Border Patrol Council, Tuesday to discuss the Trump administration enforcing America’s border laws.

The Trump administration has enacted a policy of zero tolerance when enforcing America’s border laws. The laws result in separating some families if they cross the border illegally at non-checkpoint locations.

...

Cabrera said bluntly, “We’ve had this situation going on for four years now. I don’t think you can necessarily blame it on one administration or another. It started under one and is continuing under another. It hasn’t been fixed and it needs to be fixed.”

He continued, “Right now we have this beacon of, ‘We’ll leave the light on for you and let you come illegally into the country.’ If you’ve seen some of the stuff we’ve seen, you’d understand how important it is to have a tough stance to divert people from coming here.”

Cabrera then bluntly told Baldwin some of the horrors he has seen.

“When you see a 12-year-old girl with a plan B pill, her parents put her on birth control because they know getting violated is part of the journey, that’s a terrible way to live. When you see a 4-year-old girl traveling alone with just her parents phone number written across her shirt. We had a 9-year-old boy have heat stroke in front of us and die with no family around. That’s because we’re allowing people to take advantage of this system.”

[Tom Bishop]

These children aren't even coming across the border with their parents. They are coming across with hired human smugglers known as Coyotajes.

Kirstjen Nielsen Addresses Families Separation at Border: Full Transcript

So I want to be clear on a couple of other things. The vast majority, vast, vast majority of children who are in the care of H.H.S. right now — 10,000 of the 12,000 — were sent here alone by their parents. That is when they were separated. So somehow we’ve conflated everything. But there is two separate issues. 10,000 of those currently in custody were sent by their parents with strangers to undertake a completely dangerous and deadly travel alone.

[Boots]

Illegal immigrants get the option to apply for asylum as well, it's just a longer process because they broke the law.

Again, this is not what we're talking about. What's happening here is Trump inventing a problem that most people would agree is morally horrific to try and win concessions from Congress in exchange for the problem being solved. Asylum has nothing to do with it. Trump almost certainly has no idea how the asylum process even works.

Congress is set to pass the witty and clever legislation tomorrow.

whooosh

Illegal immigrant families who choose to apply for asylum once caught are exactly what we're talking about. It is this specific group in which the children are separated from their parents.

Trump is enforcing the law at the border. The previous administration did not enforce the law at he border - if the illegal immigrants were accompanied by children. I think it's smarter to enforce the law. To me it seems better to not separate the families tho, which is why I am happy they are amending the law to get rid of that problem.

If the Dems care so much about the children as they claim they should be happy to support any legislation. As to your allegation, it didn't go over my head it's just you have done nothing to support it so why should I take it seriously? The bill is being passed today or tomorrow, I guess we'll see what's in it. My understanding is that it's pretty specific to this situation.

[Tom Bishop]

Spoiler:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/393069-schumer-rejects-gop-proposal-to-address-border-crisis

Asked if that meant Democrats would not support a bill backed by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) to keep immigrant families together while seeking asylum on the U.S. border, Schumer said they want to keep the focus on Trump.

[Boots]

That was yesterday. This morning they were claiming they were going to get it through again. But now Trump's announced he will sign an executive order to end the separation. This is not a good move IMO.

[Roundy]

Boots, the double think is blowing my mind. So Trump's administration puts up this policy that causes children to be separated from their families at the border, the Democrats are told that if they play ball politically it will stop, the Democrats refuse to kowtow to Trump's every whim, so it's the Democrats' fault that children are being separated from their families at the border. I mean good grief, lol.

Btw Trump and Rushy essentially function as machines when they comment in this thread, emotionlessly and mindlessly parroting the views of the most extreme proponents of their party. You just can't expect empathy from a machine.

Anyway,
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-says-he-ll-sign-order-stopping-separation-families-border-n885061

"I didn't like the sight of families being separated," says Trump, proving that even he is more humane about this issue than Tom Bishop.  j/k, obviously if he really felt that way his administration wouldn't have started doing it in the first place. Still, problem sorted, I guess.

[Boots]

The policy that Trump implemented was to enforce the law. It was to stop people from illegally crossing the border with no repercussion as long as they had kids. Tell me what's the point of a law if you implement a policy to not enforce it? Does that make sense? No! What makes sense is to amend the law if necessary. That's what should have happened. It's the logical thing to do.

The democrats explained why the wouldn't support that. Here it is. "We want to keep the focus on Trump." Clearly indicating that their motivations were political despite the frenzied outrage they made about family separation. Where was their outrage when Obama did this? It happened in fewer numbers but other than that it was the exact same system.

Regarding the executive order, the problem with it is that it's not legal. This is a lose-lose for Trump. The media will jump all over him for not doing it sooner, and once it gets confirmed that it's not legal they'll roast him for that. Anyway, at least the families won't be separated anymore, so that's a good thing.

[Roundy]

The policy that Trump implemented was to enforce the law. It was to stop people from illegally crossing the border with no repercussion as long as they had kids. Tell me what's the point of a law if you implement a policy to not enforce it? Does that make sense? No! What makes sense is to amend the law if necessary. That's what should have happened. It's the logical thing to do.

Then why wasn't the policy enacted sooner? Why are we only seeing children separated from their families a year and a half into his tenure? After all the talk about border security? Trump didn't get what he wanted so he put a truly evil policy in place in an attempt to bend the Democrats to his will. If you think this wasn't purely politically motivated in the first place you're delusional.