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Sometimes a few pictures are better than many explanations.
Well the obvious difference is that in Britain you see police on the streets. In America you call them police but they are soldiers.
Note, US cops are not wearing high viz to be visible.
They wear black like special ops.
They wear combat trousers.
They wear military boots.Again, comfort and versatility. It really has little to do with trying to be military. Cops have to patrol areas that are less ideal for normal footwear. That's why some cops wear boots.
They carry gunsIn a country with the highest private firearm ownership in the world. Also, Most of the rest of the world carry guns too. Britain is just being weird like with their driving. Who ever heard of driving on the left side of the road?
and wear military helmets.
They throw grenades.First off, it's usually special units like SWAT that have access to any sort of grenades. Second, US police don't use lethal grenades to my knowledge. They only use flash bangs and tear gas.
That's a soldier, not a policeman.
The point of police and why they were invented (in England first in the world) ... was because people didn't like having soldiers in their villages. Soldiers tend to shoot people and make people nervous. And so the police was born and 'policing by consent' became a thing. Walking in to town with an army is not policing by consent. It is occupation.
A glober completely ignored a stadium full of evidence claiming flat earth is a fraud because of angles and something about a flashlight and power. How do I handle this question to prove flat earth?
I'm a Christian round earther. Born and raised. This is more of an educational pursuit. Like most I was taught the world was round. I didn't know it for myself, I just accepted it. Same as my faith.
I started my journey by not reading the bible... but studying the bible. Blind faith in anything is poor choice.
I saw a video online about flat earth. Like most my first reaction was "serious?"
My second reaction "What proof do I have to say otherwise?"
Ok, but I have pictures! But, for the sake of learning let's assume the pictures are fake.
Now, what proof do I have? Hence I started learning. I've always enjoyed science, but never really spent the time to push deeper. Now I'm reading about angular momentum, astrophysics, biology (human eye, perception, physcology), etc...
I dont want to come off like I'm here to debate. I'm here to see the other side. If I ask a question, it's because I want to understand your point of view.
If you have an understanding of something. But your observation says otherwise... maybe its your understanding that's wrong. So, push forward. Ask questions, keep an open mind and keep learning
I have a couple questions for a school project for people who believe in the flat earth theory.
Why do you believe the Earth is flat?
Why is it so important to you that the Earth is flat; would you be okay with it being round?
What proof is there of the earth being flat, if any?
Did you discover the Earth being flat on your own, or did someone else show the idea to you?
Were you raised to believe in this?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A38-48&version=NIV
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
This is talking about taking personal revenge or retaliating over an insult. And slap on the cheek was (and still is in many cases) an insult, not an assault.
What about the rest of the passage? "41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles." sounds more like kidnapping and slavery than an insult. If these are Jesus' words being quoted, then surely he didn't sit there and go through how you should behave in every case; the message, however, is obvious. Revenge and retribution should not be part of your life. Transform antagonism, violence and hatred in to acts of kindness and charity.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A38-48&version=NIV
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
As I said, back then, anything other than the sun and moon was categorized as a star. Whether it be actual stars, meteors, or planets, they were all lumped into one category. So how can you dogmatically say that the Bible was talking about the stars that make up the constellations rather than falling meteors?So you concede that when the Bible mentions stars falling to earth, it's not talking about actual stars but rather meteors? Also, frankly I don't give two cents what the Quran says. I'm a Christian Jew who believes in the Bible. If you want to convince me by religious means, then use the Bible.I do not concede to that, when the Bible mentions stars falling to earth it means stars not meteors.
I know you do not care about the Qur'an, which is why I refrained from using Qur'an verses as much as possible in my arguments except for this because you brought this new part up which the Qur'an directly mentions, whereas the Bible does not. And I am not trying to convince you, I'm only posting so that others can read and those who use reason will understand. And I'm sure that to you, the Qur'an sounds dumb saying that stars are thrown at devils and you'd probably say this is not a scientific book at all. Yet if I told this Qur'an verse to Muslims, they would try to put some spin on it so that it could fit science. You are doing the exact same thing they are, trying to spin the Bible to agree with science as Muslims try to spin the Qur'an to agree with science. But neither of these Books agree with science and they are not supposed to.
Where does it says that?The Qur'an says it and it's in my original post, I just did not reference it to the Qur'an.
20:105
And they ask you about the mountains, so say, "My Lord will blow them away with a blast.
20:106
And He will leave the earth a level plain;
20:107
You will not see therein any crookedness or any curve."
I did not said that the Bible never made mention of a physical structure in the sky. I said that the Bible never called that physical structure the firmament. Without going into detail, I believe there was a canopy surrounding the earth before Noah's flood that provided a protective barrier against the sun's harmful rays and pressurized the atmosphere. It all came down during the flood. But, back on point, The part about stretching out the heavens is in reference to God stretching out the universe and science has shown that the universe is expanding.Whether it is called firmament or not is not my point. There is a physical structure above the earth that's like a tent or a ceiling above the earth, which flat earthers typically call the dome. The term heavens seems to be a broad term that encompasses the sky above and this physical structure and there are 7 heavens, which is not directly mentioned in the Bible, only the Qur'an, but the Bible does refer to heavens in the plural and singular, and 2 Corinthians 12:2 mentions the 3rd heaven, so there are multiple heavens even according to the Bible. Science would not describe the universe as stretched or expanding like a tent or curtain.
As I said, I didn't said there wasn't a solid structure, I said the Bible didn't called that structure the firmament. And theoretically speaking, the canopy can work. However it's gone now and there's not much evidence to back up it's existence other than giant fossilized insects. and trapped air bubbles with 50% more oxygen.Where in the Bible does it say this structure is gone now? This is the structure that God rolls up on the Last Day, which is mentioned in the Torah, Gospel and the Qur'an.
I did not agree to anything. My point was if God was describing the earth as a flat disc he would've said "disc." Also if the earth is a disc then how can it have corners as flat earthers claim that verses talking about the four corners of the earth is evidence that the bible is saying the earth is flat. The answer to the circle thing is that the sphere is actually the most perfect example of a circle in a 3D universe. No matter how you look at it, it's a circle. With a disc, if I look at it from it's side it becomes a really skinny rectangle. With the four corners talked about in the Bible, it's referring to the four points of the compass.I do not know the shape of the earth as in square or circle or whatever, except that it is not a sphere and it is for all intents and purposes spread out flat as a carpet. If your point is that if the earth were a disc He would have said disc, then why do you not use that same reasoning and say if the earth were a sphere He would have said sphere? He did not say sphere.
Back then, anything other than the sun and moon was catagorized as stars. To this very day we still call meteors shooting stars.
"Meteors" are shooting stars and are thrown at devils according to the Qur'an. In my thread, I used Qur'an, Gospel, and Torah verses, not just Gospel, because all three Books make one religion, not 3 religions.
37:6 - 10, Qur'an
Indeed, We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment of stars and as protection against every rebellious devil [so] they may not listen to the exalted assembly [of angels] and are pelted from every side, repelled; and for them is a constant punishment, except one who snatches [some words] by theft, but they are pursued by a burning flame, piercing [in brightness].
Uh, it could be that the mountains are leveled and the globe will be a smooth surface.
It says you will not see any curvature, a globe has curvature, thus it could not be a smooth globe.
I did not said that the Bible never made mention of a physical structure in the sky. I said that the Bible never called that physical structure the firmament. Without going into detail, I believe there was a canopy surrounding the earth before Noah's flood that provided a protective barrier against the sun's harmful rays and pressurized the atmosphere. It all came down during the flood. But, back on point, The part about stretching out the heavens is in reference to God stretching out the universe and science has shown that the universe is expanding.Nowhere in the Bible does it call any solid structure the firmament. The firmament is the sky where the birds fly.
Your signature of God sitting upon the circle of the earth, the next part of that verse says He stretches the heaven as a curtain and as a tent. Curtains and tents are physical structures and definitely do not describe the globe model.
Also Genesis 1:6 - 8 describes the heaven as a firmament, which divides waters from above and below this firmament.Yeah, and in verse 8 it says that God called the firmament heaven, which is the sky and space, not a solid structure. Not only that, but in verse 20 it talks about God creating the birds to fly in the open firmament of heaven. And as you know, birds don't do well flying through solid objects.
And when God flooded the earth, He opened windows or gates of heaven [54:11, Qur'an and Genesis 7:11] in order to let this water from above the firmament come down to the earth. This is describing a physical structure and does not agree with science, no scientist would even take you seriously if you used these verses yet you will continue to try to say the Bible agrees with science. It does not and neither does the Qur'an, for the Qur'an says
21:32, Qur'an
We made the heaven a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away.No 2D object can exists in real life. Any thickness and it becomes a cylinder or disc.
You just agreed that a circle is not a sphere, you said give a circle 3 dimensions by giving it thickness and it becomes a cylinder or a disc, neither of these are globes, which was exactly my point. And if you look at the Hebrew for the word circle, it means circle or compass, not sphere or globe or ball.
Nope. When God comes back, he'll everybody that the earth is round. Ever noticed that near death expiencers and those who claim to see visions when shown the earth, never mentioning it being flat?
Because when people nearly die they come back All-Knowing? Where's your Scripture that says when God comes back He will prove that the earth is round?
To your first question. No, they don't come back all knowing but they do come back with a certain knowledge.Besides, when arguing about religion, it's best to stay within the religious text. To your second question, The Bible talks about every secret being made know on judgement day. So if God doesn't show that the earth is flat, then it's by default, round. Besides, we already have scientific data to prove that the earth is round.
"They come back with a certain knowledge" - you have no proof of that.
"It's best to stay within the religious text," yet your main point was bringing up people with near death experiences as your proof. Everything I put in that post was from the Qur'an, the Gospel and the Torah except for quotes by what people say from science, so I did stay within the religious text. God removes the mountains and has the stars fall from heaven and rolls the heaven as a scroll on the Day of Judgement. Science, which you say proves the earth is round, says stars are larger than the earth, thus they could not fall to the earth.Back then, anything other than the sun and moon was catagorized as stars. To this very day we still call meteors shooting stars.
The mountains are removed in order to level the earth and show that there is no curvature, thus proving it is flat.Uh, it could be that the mountains are leveled and the globe will be a smooth surface.
The heavens are rolled as a scroll to prove that the heavens are a physical firmament and ceiling, not just vast open space like science says.Nowhere in the Bible does it call any solid structure the firmament. The firmament is the sky where the birds fly. And the part about the heavens rolling away is showing how multi dimensional God is. We are stuck in our 3D universe where as God is far beyond that and able to do things like roll time and space up like a scroll.
The only "proof" you have shown is Isaiah which says it's a circle, a circle is not a sphere, it is 2 dimensional, which would make the earth flat.
Nope. When God comes back, he'll everybody that the earth is round. Ever noticed that near death expiencers and those who claim to see visions when shown the earth, never mentioning it being flat?
Because when people nearly die they come back All-Knowing? Where's your Scripture that says when God comes back He will prove that the earth is round?
On the Day of Resurrection, God will remove the mountains and you will see the earth a leveled plain, you will not see therein any crookedness or any curve, and those who mocked will be enveloped by what they used to ridicule. Furthermore, the stars will fall from heaven to the earth, for they said they are giant luminous spheres of plasma. And so the stars fell from heaven as a fig tree casts her untimely figs, when she is shaken by a mighty wind - for on that Day, the heaven will shake. And the heavens will be rolled as a scroll, for God made the heaven a protected ceiling, but they from its signs are turning away. For indeed they found their people astray. So they hastened to follow in their footsteps. And there had already strayed before them most of the former peoples, and God had already sent among them warners. But when their messengers came to them with clear proofs, they merely rejoiced in what they had of knowledge, but they were enveloped by what they used to ridicule.
For these verses and far more from the Qur'an, Gospel, and the Torah, go to:
https://quranicwarners.org/creation/#flatearth
So you're saying we have to interpret these words ourselves, to figure out what they really mean?
Can't argue with that.
How do you interpret the last one: "If a man rapes an unbetrothed virgin he must pay a fine to her father and marry her and never divorce her"?
That is absolutely your own interpretation, taking complete liberties with what is written in Deuteronomy 21:QuoteIf someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Nothing in there about "high level crimes", merely: being stubborn, being rebellious, not listening, overeating, and being a drunk.
I think we all know what "stubborn" and "rebellious" look like.
Also is the implication that you must carry out the stoning so that "all Israel will hear of it" - presumably by posting a notice in a Jewish newspaper or something.
The next chapter, by the way, includes God's detestation of transvestites, the commandment to build parapets on your roofs, and instructions to not wear wool and linen at the same time - I hope you've done all them - plus what to do to people who rape virgins:QuoteIf a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
This is the word of the Lord. Amen.
QuoteI'm failing to see how it was unfair.
So, you make a couple with a propensity to steal fruit (you know that cos’ you’re god and you made them, right), Then you say everything but the apples (why?), and just in case they might have fought the inclination you programmed in, you allow/send a snake to make sure, then you (god) throw a hissy when surprise-surprise a Granny-Smith goes missing, unfair- rigged.
God made us to have free chioce. When he created Adam and Eve he didn't created them with any inclination other than the free will to choose. Before they sinned they had no knowledge of sin.
You’ve been through this before. If God is omniscient then there is no Free Will. They are mutually exclusive ideas.QuoteQuoteSo, since Satan doesn't work overtly, God doesn't either.Lame, more tricks, either he wants to save us, or he doesn’t, why is he letting the “bringer of light” set the rules?
Essentially the deal seems to be;
“Jura, you will jump through hoops I have set up, you will do so with a personality I have given you that rails against tyrants, I will hide and set up conflicting religions and multiple alternative expressions of the rule-book, that is itself vague and contradictory and allow a being of immense intellect and resources free reign to confuse and mislead. If by some chance you decide to put aside the obvious fact I am a megalomaniacal narcissist, I will consent to let you sing my praises for the rest of time, if not endless torture or oblivion with no chance of parole, signed your Psychopathic Magnificence.
Ps, I already know what you are going to do, I’m god, you are a rat in a maze.”
Nope, I’ll have the cribbage.QuoteThe Bible (particularly the KJV in English) is not contradictory and while there are some things that I don't understand, most of what it is in the Bible is rather simple to follow.
If it’s not contradictory then tell me, does the Bible tell you that stoning your children for disobedience is wrong or right?
QuoteI'm failing to see how it was unfair.
So, you make a couple with a propensity to steal fruit (you know that cos’ you’re god and you made them, right), Then you say everything but the apples (why?), and just in case they might have fought the inclination you programmed in, you allow/send a snake to make sure, then you (god) throw a hissy when surprise-surprise a Granny-Smith goes missing, unfair- rigged.
QuoteSo, since Satan doesn't work overtly, God doesn't either.Lame, more tricks, either he wants to save us, or he doesn’t, why is he letting the “bringer of light” set the rules?
Essentially the deal seems to be;
“Jura, you will jump through hoops I have set up, you will do so with a personality I have given you that rails against tyrants, I will hide and set up conflicting religions and multiple alternative expressions of the rule-book, that is itself vague and contradictory and allow a being of immense intellect and resources free reign to confuse and mislead. If by some chance you decide to put aside the obvious fact I am a megalomaniacal narcissist, I will consent to let you sing my praises for the rest of time, if not endless torture or oblivion with no chance of parole, signed your Psychopathic Magnificence.
Ps, I already know what you are going to do, I’m god, you are a rat in a maze.”
Nope, I’ll have the cribbage.
I'm failing to see how it was unfair.It's all nice and fuzzy to think that "well, you believe that and that's OK for you but I believe this..."
But if what you believe and I believe contradict one another then we cannot both be right. Truth isn't relative..
But that is the big problem, you see god is a tricksy little bugger by all accounts, look what he did to Adam & Eve, unfair.
But then in the old test’ he was all in your face helping out with the genocides and such and now he’s all silent again and you have to get mystic Max to find him.
That’s if you’re on the right track and he’s not some Polynesian deity made from coconuts sitting there chortling, “you are so fucked when the great tsunami happens”.
I’m done with it, unless he rocks up and says “this is the deal Jura” he/she/it can take a hike, I’m betting on a celestial underworld of souls that don’t want to sing for eternity but would rather play cribbage, I’ll find them.
Yes.What about cops?Including soldiers?
No. Your country is ordering you to kill. It would be pretty fucked up if it then charged you as a criminal for that order.
Cops kill people intentionally.
Nope. Police are trained to shoot to stop the threat. the fastest and easiest way to do that is to shoot center mass.
Are you saying they don't intentionally point their gun at a person and fire? Cause I'm 100% sure they don't accidentally shoot people. They totally aim center mass to stop the threat, yes. Center mass also happens to have vital organs.
So it's pretty intentional.
What about cops?Including soldiers?
No. Your country is ordering you to kill. It would be pretty fucked up if it then charged you as a criminal for that order.
Cops kill people intentionally.
