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Offline Rushy

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1240 on: October 28, 2014, 12:13:15 AM »
that is simply untrue. God doesn't have to obey anything. But to violate his own laws would be to make himself not God. for example, could God make a married bachelor?

Please stop making your text bigger. Also, yes, god can violate his own laws. If a law exists that god cannot break, then god ceases to be god and becomes a very, very powerful human analogue (which is basically what the bible portrays, anyway). Additionally, see what PP2 stated.

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Offline Shane

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1241 on: October 28, 2014, 12:56:42 AM »
Can God make a dick so big not even he can suck it?
Quote from: Rushy
How do you know you weren't literally given metaphorical wings?

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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1242 on: October 28, 2014, 01:10:28 AM »
We've been over this. God keeps things within the realm of the understandable for people at the time.
So let me get this straight:

Jews were so dumb that if God stood before them with pig, pointed to it, and said "Do not eat" they couldn't understand it?

Damn.
And before you say "not all 2 million people could see it at once" I would then say "break into groups of 30 and have God display himself and the pig to all 66,667 different groups."  It's not hard.  If Moses can do it, God can do it.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1243 on: October 28, 2014, 01:47:02 AM »
for example, could God make a married bachelor?[/size]

That's a nonsensical question, since the words "married bachelor" mean nothing when put together. It would be just as meaningful to ask if God could make a "UHuhfuhweiwpkwmdljf".

When I can quote without making my text larger and make it obvious that I am quoting, I shall do so. When necessary, however, I will change the font size. I'm sorry that inconveniences any of you. If you don't like it, I suggest getting over yourselves. That having been said, lets carry on.


that is simply untrue. God doesn't have to obey anything. But to violate his own laws would be to make himself not God. for example, could God make a married bachelor?

Please stop making your text bigger. Also, yes, god can violate his own laws. If a law exists that god cannot break, then god ceases to be god and becomes a very, very powerful human analogue (which is basically what the bible portrays, anyway). Additionally, see what PP2 stated.

And no, that is NOT what the Bible portrays. Although to one of limited Biblical knowledge, that might be what appears to be the case. But people have asked this question for eons. A perfect example is "Can God make a rock that is too heavy for God to lift?" The correct answer is none of the above, like the married bachelor question. It makes no sense.

The Bible portrays a progressive understanding of God (and if my effing SHIFT button doesn't start working again, so help me God...). The Bible starts with a narrow understanding of the Hebrew/Israelite God as a henotheistic national God of a tribal group in the Middle East, and slowly metamorphoses into the understanding of that God (by then Israel has broken into two kingdoms, the Northern of which has been destroyed and its peoples dispersed) as a universal God of all people. The Jewish God (for so we were called by then, and so we are still called today, for a variety of reasons I'll not discuss here) is understood by Jews as being the God, not just of Jews, but of all persons. At this point, you have Judaism as a universal, missionary faith, which it continued to be until the coming of Christianity.

Now this gets us into a whole new topic. The discussion of the (mis)fortunes of Judaism and the Jews under Christianity is a deep one, and not relevant here, although I am happy to answer any questions about it that may come up. Suffice to say that Judaism ceased to be a missionary upon the coming of Christianity as a State Faith to the Roman Empire, since it became punishable by death both to the Rabbi doing the conversion and to the convert.

Back to my point. The God of the Jewish Bible manifests originally in admittedly primitive form. This is only logical. A primitive people must needs have a primitive God that they can readily understand. As their understanding increases, God manifests himself in ever deeper and more complex ways.

Now, you can disagree with me all you wish. I don't ultimately give a rat's hind quarters. It remains my position, and I think I am well founded by any psychologist or psychiatrist or any other student of human mental states when I say that if God were to come to any human being in a manner that that person couldn't possibly comprehend, that person would regard it as a straight up mind-fuck, and would probably end up in a nut ward, or whatever his century's version of that was. In Moses' day, that would have probably meant very dead.

I mean, you honestly think that God, by virtue of being God, can radically change societies just because he wants to. Well, I suppose he could. Well, imagine you wanted to change the outcome of a war. So, you take an AK-47 back to the Crusades. I expect you would get a chance to change the outcome of one engagement. After that, you would be speedily declared to be a witch, and killed forthwith. So you'd better hope its an important engagement.

The world is the way it is because it is the best of all possible worlds. If God were to make it other than it is, it would not be the best of all possible worlds. It would be something different. It might be better in some ways, but it would be worse in others. So, before you start questioning God's creation, and the way he did it, consider the fact that if he had done it differently, you yourself might never have been born, or might have been born hideously, and died, or might have been born in a world where Nazi Germany won WWII, or any number of things. REMEMBER: THIS IS THE BEST OF ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS.

Lord Dave, you're a schmuck. We've already been over that. None can see the face of God and live. Except Moses. And I don't know why he caught a break. Didn't you ever learn to read?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 02:03:31 AM by Yonah ben Amittai »

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1244 on: October 28, 2014, 02:08:56 AM »
Can God make a dick so big not even he can suck it?
No, but religious folk can.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1245 on: October 28, 2014, 02:14:52 AM »
Can God make a dick so big not even he can suck it?
No, but religious folk can.

Ok, so we have two cocksuckers in the group. We can leave them in the corner to do their thing. Enjoy that big cock, you two!

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1246 on: October 28, 2014, 02:17:02 AM »
Can God make a dick so big not even he can suck it?
No, but religious folk can.

Ok, so we have two cocksuckers in the group. We can leave them in the corner to do their thing. Enjoy that big cock, you two!

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1247 on: October 28, 2014, 02:22:16 AM »
The question of whether or not God could create a rock too heavy for him to lift is a bit more interesting. Is omnipotence necessarily a permanent condition? I don't think so. I think God could relieve himself of his powers, if we wanted. Or he could simply create one obstacle that he could not overcome, as in the rock example, and he would still be nearly omnipotent, but not quite.
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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1248 on: October 28, 2014, 02:33:53 AM »
The question of whether or not God could create a rock too heavy for him to lift is a bit more interesting. Is omnipotence necessarily a permanent condition? I don't think so. I think God could relieve himself of his powers, if we wanted. Or he could simply create one obstacle that he could not overcome, as in the rock example, and he would still be nearly omnipotent, but not quite.

What if God did indeed create a rock too large for him to control, but the rock was actually the universe which explains why he seems mostly absent from it?

*keanu reeves*
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 07:08:36 AM by Vauxhall »

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1249 on: October 28, 2014, 03:05:05 AM »
The question of whether or not God could create a rock too heavy for him to lift is a bit more interesting. Is omnipotence necessarily a permanent condition? I don't think so. I think God could relieve himself of his powers, if we wanted. Or he could simply create one obstacle that he could not overcome, as in the rock example, and he would still be nearly omnipotent, but not quite.


Wow, there is actually an intelligent person in here! That is a rare find! Anyhow, onto the question. If God were to render himself not omnipotent, he would be rendering himself not God. So, I think that ultimately, the question of could God create a rock that was too heavy for God to lift can only be answered as none of the above. I don't think the question is answerable. Because in either a yes or a no answer, you run up against God not being omnipotent, and that is not possible. Either God is omnipotent, or God is not God.

Now granted, in some religious traditions, some forms of deity are limited in power in some form or other. For example, Jesus as God does not have unlimited physical power. He cannot lift a very heavy rock. In fact, he is limited to the strengths and weaknesses of a human being.

Obviously, I am not a Christian, so I do not believe that last paragraph, or the following that I am about to write. But go with me a bit on this.

Jesus is God incarnate. He is subject to all the limitations of a human. He presumably gets hot and cold the way we do. He presumably eats and drinks, and gets hungry and thirsty (in fact, the NT talks of him being hungry and thirsty) the way we do. I assume he has body functions (ie, he goes to the potty) the way we do.

And yet, he is God. Limited, and yet God. Now, in God's form as the Trinity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, he is Omnipotent, Omnibenevolent, and Omniscient.

Obviously, I think this is all hooey, but that is the way the Christians explain it. So it is that God can be perceived in some forms to be limited as well as limitless.

But taking the Jewish God as he has always been understood, there is no way to answer the question because he could never surrender any part of his omnipotence without also surrendering his very Godhood itself.


The question of whether or not God could create a rock too heavy for him to lift is a bit more interesting. Is omnipotence necessarily a permanent condition? I don't think so. I think God could relieve himself of his powers, if we wanted. Or he could simply create one obstacle that he could not overcome, as in the rock example, and he would still be nearly omnipotent, but not quite.

What if God did indeed create a rock too large for him to control, but the rock was actually the universe which explains why he seems mostly absent from it?

*keanu reeves*

That is certainly an interesting question. And far more relevant that the idiocies I have mostly been dealing with today. But I think the answer remains the same. If God were to create a rock (whether it were the universe or any other thing) that were too large for God to control, then that would render God not omnipotent, and therefore not God.

I think the reason you perceive God to be mostly absent from the universe is because as you understand it, God should be working miracles the way the Bible records him doing in olden times. But, lets look at that fairly. The prophecy went out of Israel after Malachi died. Why? Well, I don't have a firm answer for you, but I suspect that it was no longer necessary. We were ready to live on our own by then.

That having been said, do bad things happen, and do we often wonder why God permits such? Sure. The answer is much simpler than people realise. We live in a fallen world. Ever since our first parents sinned against God (however you choose to interpret the Genesis story, whether literally or figuratively), and discovered their loss of innocence, the world has been a pretty hard place in which to live. In toil shalt thou live, and with the sweat of thy brow shalt thou bring forth bread from the earth. It takes work to live, and the world was no longer our friend. Mother nature turned on us. The world turned on us. God himself knew that we could no longer merit innocence. We had our freedom that we had taken from the tree of good and evil (again, however you wish to interpret that). Now we must learn to live with it. Evil entered to world and would henceforth be with us. There was nothing we were going to do at that point to stop it.

The Greeks have a similar story about Pandora's Box that they tell about how evil enters the world. The point of both stories is that evil enters the world through disobedience. However you choose to interpret either story (literally or metaphorically) is your business. As a Jew I would find the Greek tale metaphorical. The Genesis story, well, that's more debatable, but to be honest, I don't know. And as far as this discussion goes, it doesn't matter. What matters is that God did not create evil as such. Evil simply is.

In fact, if you go with an Augustinian definition of Evil, then Evil is not existent. It is non-existence, namely, the non-existence of Good. So to exist is a greater good than to not exist. This is the basis for the Argument from Ontology of Anselm.

1. I can conceive of a being a greater than which cannot possibly be conceived.
2. Existence is better than non-existence.
3. Ergo, God exists.

So, because of mankind's rebellion against an all powerful God, an all Good God, we live with evil in our midst. It isn't because God is absent. It is because Good is less present in our world than it should be, through our own actions which have made this so. Could God make this otherwise? I suppose he could. But that would be to eliminate our free will. Why would he do that, and make us robots? So, there you are.

Ghost of V

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1250 on: October 28, 2014, 07:11:07 AM »
I don't understand how God simply making his presence  known to modern humans would turn us all into robots. Care to elaborate on this point?

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1251 on: October 28, 2014, 09:57:48 AM »
https://newmatilda.com/2014/10/28/melissa-parke-breaks-labor-ranks-back-bds-campaign-against-israel

tl;dr sole Labor MP criticizes Israel and expresses support for http://www.bdsmovement.net/. Gets called anti-semitic.

Is she right or wrong?

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1252 on: October 28, 2014, 10:18:06 AM »
I don't understand how God simply making his presence  known to modern humans would turn us all into robots. Care to elaborate on this point?

Well, it would certainly deny our free will, at least to a point. If God were literally standing over us as the Divine Taskmaster, forcing us to obey, would that not be a loss of free will?


https://newmatilda.com/2014/10/28/melissa-parke-breaks-labor-ranks-back-bds-campaign-against-israel

tl;dr sole Labor MP criticizes Israel and expresses support for http://www.bdsmovement.net/. Gets called anti-semitic.

Is she right or wrong?

She sounds like a whiny little bitch.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1253 on: October 28, 2014, 10:21:25 AM »
She sounds like a whiny little bitch.

That's lazy. I want a wall of text.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1254 on: October 28, 2014, 10:32:08 AM »
I don't care what you want. She's an anti-Semitic, uninformed, useless "Palestinian"-bought political whore. And the website you listed on the so-called bdsmovement is even more indication of stupid is as stupid does. Since "Palestinians" are not citizens of Israel, they do not have the rights of citizens, making any comparisons to apartheid disingenuous at best. And I LOVE the genocide accusation. 47 years and they have multiplied by four times! Wow! Jews must really suck at genocide!

So in conclusion, she's an ass-hat. Nothing more need be said.

Rama Set

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1255 on: October 28, 2014, 01:27:12 PM »
I don't understand how God simply making his presence  known to modern humans would turn us all into robots. Care to elaborate on this point?
Well, it would certainly deny our free will, at least to a point. If God were literally standing over us as the Divine Taskmaster, forcing us to obey, would that not be a loss of free will?

We more than likely do not have free will whether there is a god or not, so that is moot, but it is important to note that there is a big difference between "making your presence known" and being a "Divine Taskmaster[sic], forcing us to obey".

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1256 on: October 28, 2014, 02:09:35 PM »
I'm pretty sure god is already portrayed as a divine taskmaster, regardless. You're rewarded for obeying and punished for getting out of line.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1257 on: October 28, 2014, 04:01:16 PM »
I don't understand how God simply making his presence  known to modern humans would turn us all into robots. Care to elaborate on this point?
Well, it would certainly deny our free will, at least to a point. If God were literally standing over us as the Divine Taskmaster, forcing us to obey, would that not be a loss of free will?

We more than likely do not have free will whether there is a god or not, so that is moot, but it is important to note that there is a big difference between "making your presence known" and being a "Divine Taskmaster[sic], forcing us to obey".

I don't know how you come up with the idea that we more than likely do not have free will, but ok. Some of us, of course, would argue that God makes his presence known in many ways, practically every day.

Have you ever watched the cycle of life from birth to maturity in a bird's nest? Or observed a caterpillar become a butterfly? You see, to those of us who believe that there is no way this all occurred by accident, these are examples of God's presence.

One could take it further. Ever have miracles happen to you personally? Ever live when you should not have? I know I have. Ever survive against all odds, when you know damned well you should have paid the piper?

These are signs that God is with us. Now, you are going to argue with me, and that is fine. Go ahead. Remember, the reason God does not make himself directly known to Jews today is because the prophecy departed from Israel after Malachi. As far as other nations and peoples, I neither know nor care whether he has made himself known to them or not.

But, whether he has or not, remember that Jews were chosen of God to be a Royal Priesthood set apart unto the nations. We are a priesthood people, chosen to bring monotheism to the world. So, even if other nations have had revelations from God, they have not been along the level that we have had.

We are especially dedicated to being the intercessors between God and man. I encourage you all to read Zechariah chapter 8 for more references on this.


I'm pretty sure god is already portrayed as a divine taskmaster, regardless. You're rewarded for obeying and punished for getting out of line.

As I have indicated before, not all Jews even believe in an Afterlife. So your point is a non-point, except perhaps for the one on top of your head.

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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1258 on: October 28, 2014, 04:10:17 PM »
If Jews were meant to bring monotheism to the world, why did Christians do it a million times better while Jews don't even want others to join?

Also, yes Jews suck at genocide.  You couldn't even wipe out one group of people during the bronze age.  They vanished from evolution.  Jews are slower than evolution.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Ghost of V

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1259 on: October 28, 2014, 04:39:42 PM »
As I have indicated before, not all Jews even believe in an Afterlife. So your point is a non-point, except perhaps for the one on top of your head.

Is this some kind of point? Is there an afterlife or not?