[Rama Set]

The fact that Amalekites attacked Israel without cause or justification made them awful. But they were also just like their Canaanite brethren in terms of their practices. I was using the Aztecs as a comparison, not as an argument. If you don't know the difference, that sounds like a failure in your education.

You know, its like saying "The Islamic State is as bad as Hitler". One is not saying that ISIS has anything to do with the Nazis. That would be stupid. It is only to compare their mentality.

Waah fuckin' waah.

Godwin's Law, you lose, as you like to say.

Anyway, can you cite a source other than the Torah to corroborate your claims?

[Yonah ben Amittai]

The fact that Amalekites attacked Israel without cause or justification made them awful. But they were also just like their Canaanite brethren in terms of their practices. I was using the Aztecs as a comparison, not as an argument. If you don't know the difference, that sounds like a failure in your education.

You know, its like saying "The Islamic State is as bad as Hitler". One is not saying that ISIS has anything to do with the Nazis. That would be stupid. It is only to compare their mentality.

Waah fuckin' waah.

Godwin's Law, you lose, as you like to say.

Anyway, can you cite a source other than the Torah to corroborate your claims?

Actually, no, Godwin's Law doesn't apply. I could just have easily have said the following: "You know, its like saying "The Islamic State is as bad as the Mongols". One is not saying that ISIS has anything to do with the Mongols. That would be stupid. It is only to compare their mentality. Waah fuckin' waah."

Misusing Godwin's Law won't get you very far.

QUOTE: "Canaanite culture and religion

Edited by Robert A. Guisepi

 

The Israelite tribes during the period of the guidance and leadership of Moses and Joshua mainly had to contend with nomadic tribes; in their contacts with such groups, they absorbed some of the attitudes and motifs of the nomadic way of life, such as independence, a love of freedom to move about, and fear of or disdain for the way of life of settled, agricultural, and urban peoples.

The Canaanites, with whom the Israelites came into contact during the conquest by Joshua and the period of the Judges, were a sophisticated agricultural and urban people. The name Canaan means "Land of Purple" (a purple dye was extracted from a murex shellfish found near the shores of Palestine). The Canaanites, a people who absorbed and assimilated the features of many cultures of the ancient Near East for at least 500 years before the Israelites entered their area of control, were the people who, as far as is known, invented the form of writing that became the alphabet, which, through the Greeks and Romans, was passed on to many cultures influenced by their successors--namely, the nations and peoples of Western civilization.

The religion of the Canaanites was an agricultural religion, with pronounced fertility motifs. Their main gods were called the Baalim (Lords), and their consorts the Baalot (Ladies), or Asherah (singular), usually known by the personal plural name Ashtoret. The god of the city of Shechem, which city the Israelites had absorbed peacefully under Joshua, was called Baal-berith (Lord of the Covenant) or El-berith (God of the Covenant). Shechem became the first cultic center of the religious tribal confederacy (called an amphictyony by the Greeks) of the Israelites during the period of the judges. When Shechem was excavated in the early 1960s, the temple of Baal-berith was partially reconstructed; the sacred pillar (generally a phallic symbol or, often, a representation of the ashera, the female fertility symbol) was placed in its original position before the entrance of the temple.

The Baalim and the Baalot, gods and goddesses of the Earth, were believed to be the revitalizes of the forces of nature upon which agriculture depended. The revitalization process involved a sacred marriage (hieros gamos), replete with sexual symbolic and actual activities between men, representing the Baalim, and the sacred temple prostitutes (qedeshot), representing the Baalot. Cultic ceremonies involving sexual acts between male members of the agricultural communities and sacred prostitutes dedicated to the Baalim were focused on the Canaanite concept of sympathetic magic. As the Baalim (through the actions of selected men) both symbolically and actually impregnated the sacred prostitutes in order to reproduce in kind, so also, it was believed, the Baalim (as gods of the weather and the Earth) would send the rains (often identified with semen) to the Earth so that it might yield abundant harvests of grains and fruits. Canaanite myths incorporating such fertility myths are represented in the mythological texts of the ancient city of Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra) in northern Syria; though the high god El and his consort are important as the first pair of the pantheon, Baal and his sexually passionate sister-consort are significant in the creation of the world and the renewal of nature.

The religion of the Canaanite agriculturalists proved to be a strong attraction to the less sophisticated and nomadic-oriented Israelite tribes. Many Israelites succumbed to the allurements of the fertility-laden rituals and practices of the Canaanite religion, partly because it was new and different from the Yahwistic religion and, possibly, because of a tendency of a rigorous faith and ethic to weaken under the influence of sexual attractions. As the Canaanites and the Israelites began to live in closer contact with each other, the faith of Israel tended to absorb some of the concepts and practices of the Canaanite religion. Some Israelites began to name their children after the Baalim; even one of the judges, Gideon, was also known by the name Jerubbaal ("Let Baal Contend").

As the syncretistic tendencies became further entrenched in the Israelite faith, the people began to lose the concept of their exclusiveness and their mission to be a witness to the nations, thus becoming weakened in resolve internally and liable to the oppression of other peoples."

Source: http://history-world.org/canaanite_culture_and_religion.htm

That is just one, minor source. I could go further, but that will do for the present.

[Rama Set]

The fact that Amalekites attacked Israel without cause or justification made them awful. But they were also just like their Canaanite brethren in terms of their practices. I was using the Aztecs as a comparison, not as an argument. If you don't know the difference, that sounds like a failure in your education.

You know, its like saying "The Islamic State is as bad as Hitler". One is not saying that ISIS has anything to do with the Nazis. That would be stupid. It is only to compare their mentality.

Waah fuckin' waah.

Godwin's Law, you lose, as you like to say.

Anyway, can you cite a source other than the Torah to corroborate your claims?

Actually, no, Godwin's Law doesn't apply. I could just have easily have said the following: "You know, its like saying "The Islamic State is as bad as the Mongols". One is not saying that ISIS has anything to do with the Mongols. That would be stupid. It is only to compare their mentality. Waah fuckin' waah."

Misusing Godwin's Law won't get you very far.

I did not misuse it.  Your comment was textbook Godwin's law:

Godwin's law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"[2][3]—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

You could have made another comparison, but you did not did you?  You lose.


QUOTE: "Canaanite culture and religion

Edited by Robert A. Guisepi

 

The Israelite tribes during the period of the guidance and leadership of Moses and Joshua mainly had to contend with nomadic tribes; in their contacts with such groups, they absorbed some of the attitudes and motifs of the nomadic way of life, such as independence, a love of freedom to move about, and fear of or disdain for the way of life of settled, agricultural, and urban peoples.

The Canaanites, with whom the Israelites came into contact during the conquest by Joshua and the period of the Judges, were a sophisticated agricultural and urban people. The name Canaan means "Land of Purple" (a purple dye was extracted from a murex shellfish found near the shores of Palestine). The Canaanites, a people who absorbed and assimilated the features of many cultures of the ancient Near East for at least 500 years before the Israelites entered their area of control, were the people who, as far as is known, invented the form of writing that became the alphabet, which, through the Greeks and Romans, was passed on to many cultures influenced by their successors--namely, the nations and peoples of Western civilization.

The religion of the Canaanites was an agricultural religion, with pronounced fertility motifs. Their main gods were called the Baalim (Lords), and their consorts the Baalot (Ladies), or Asherah (singular), usually known by the personal plural name Ashtoret. The god of the city of Shechem, which city the Israelites had absorbed peacefully under Joshua, was called Baal-berith (Lord of the Covenant) or El-berith (God of the Covenant). Shechem became the first cultic center of the religious tribal confederacy (called an amphictyony by the Greeks) of the Israelites during the period of the judges. When Shechem was excavated in the early 1960s, the temple of Baal-berith was partially reconstructed; the sacred pillar (generally a phallic symbol or, often, a representation of the ashera, the female fertility symbol) was placed in its original position before the entrance of the temple.

The Baalim and the Baalot, gods and goddesses of the Earth, were believed to be the revitalizes of the forces of nature upon which agriculture depended. The revitalization process involved a sacred marriage (hieros gamos), replete with sexual symbolic and actual activities between men, representing the Baalim, and the sacred temple prostitutes (qedeshot), representing the Baalot. Cultic ceremonies involving sexual acts between male members of the agricultural communities and sacred prostitutes dedicated to the Baalim were focused on the Canaanite concept of sympathetic magic. As the Baalim (through the actions of selected men) both symbolically and actually impregnated the sacred prostitutes in order to reproduce in kind, so also, it was believed, the Baalim (as gods of the weather and the Earth) would send the rains (often identified with semen) to the Earth so that it might yield abundant harvests of grains and fruits. Canaanite myths incorporating such fertility myths are represented in the mythological texts of the ancient city of Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra) in northern Syria; though the high god El and his consort are important as the first pair of the pantheon, Baal and his sexually passionate sister-consort are significant in the creation of the world and the renewal of nature.

The religion of the Canaanite agriculturalists proved to be a strong attraction to the less sophisticated and nomadic-oriented Israelite tribes. Many Israelites succumbed to the allurements of the fertility-laden rituals and practices of the Canaanite religion, partly because it was new and different from the Yahwistic religion and, possibly, because of a tendency of a rigorous faith and ethic to weaken under the influence of sexual attractions. As the Canaanites and the Israelites began to live in closer contact with each other, the faith of Israel tended to absorb some of the concepts and practices of the Canaanite religion. Some Israelites began to name their children after the Baalim; even one of the judges, Gideon, was also known by the name Jerubbaal ("Let Baal Contend").

As the syncretistic tendencies became further entrenched in the Israelite faith, the people began to lose the concept of their exclusiveness and their mission to be a witness to the nations, thus becoming weakened in resolve internally and liable to the oppression of other peoples."

Source: http://history-world.org/canaanite_culture_and_religion.htm

That is just one, minor source. I could go further, but that will do for the present.
[/quote]

Other than having sex with ritualistically, which may or may not have been forced upon the women, I dont know, what specifically about this merits murdering babies, or even adults?  You seem to be strengthening my position that genocide was commanded for no good reason, if there could even be a good reason for genocide.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

The fact that Amalekites attacked Israel without cause or justification made them awful. But they were also just like their Canaanite brethren in terms of their practices. I was using the Aztecs as a comparison, not as an argument. If you don't know the difference, that sounds like a failure in your education.

You know, its like saying "The Islamic State is as bad as Hitler". One is not saying that ISIS has anything to do with the Nazis. That would be stupid. It is only to compare their mentality.

Waah fuckin' waah.

Godwin's Law, you lose, as you like to say.

Anyway, can you cite a source other than the Torah to corroborate your claims?

Actually, no, Godwin's Law doesn't apply. I could just have easily have said the following: "You know, its like saying "The Islamic State is as bad as the Mongols". One is not saying that ISIS has anything to do with the Mongols. That would be stupid. It is only to compare their mentality. Waah fuckin' waah."

Misusing Godwin's Law won't get you very far.

I did not misuse it.  Your comment was textbook Godwin's law:

Godwin's law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"[2][3]—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

You could have made another comparison, but you did not did you?  You lose.


QUOTE: "Canaanite culture and religion

Edited by Robert A. Guisepi

 

The Israelite tribes during the period of the guidance and leadership of Moses and Joshua mainly had to contend with nomadic tribes; in their contacts with such groups, they absorbed some of the attitudes and motifs of the nomadic way of life, such as independence, a love of freedom to move about, and fear of or disdain for the way of life of settled, agricultural, and urban peoples.

The Canaanites, with whom the Israelites came into contact during the conquest by Joshua and the period of the Judges, were a sophisticated agricultural and urban people. The name Canaan means "Land of Purple" (a purple dye was extracted from a murex shellfish found near the shores of Palestine). The Canaanites, a people who absorbed and assimilated the features of many cultures of the ancient Near East for at least 500 years before the Israelites entered their area of control, were the people who, as far as is known, invented the form of writing that became the alphabet, which, through the Greeks and Romans, was passed on to many cultures influenced by their successors--namely, the nations and peoples of Western civilization.

The religion of the Canaanites was an agricultural religion, with pronounced fertility motifs. Their main gods were called the Baalim (Lords), and their consorts the Baalot (Ladies), or Asherah (singular), usually known by the personal plural name Ashtoret. The god of the city of Shechem, which city the Israelites had absorbed peacefully under Joshua, was called Baal-berith (Lord of the Covenant) or El-berith (God of the Covenant). Shechem became the first cultic center of the religious tribal confederacy (called an amphictyony by the Greeks) of the Israelites during the period of the judges. When Shechem was excavated in the early 1960s, the temple of Baal-berith was partially reconstructed; the sacred pillar (generally a phallic symbol or, often, a representation of the ashera, the female fertility symbol) was placed in its original position before the entrance of the temple.

The Baalim and the Baalot, gods and goddesses of the Earth, were believed to be the revitalizes of the forces of nature upon which agriculture depended. The revitalization process involved a sacred marriage (hieros gamos), replete with sexual symbolic and actual activities between men, representing the Baalim, and the sacred temple prostitutes (qedeshot), representing the Baalot. Cultic ceremonies involving sexual acts between male members of the agricultural communities and sacred prostitutes dedicated to the Baalim were focused on the Canaanite concept of sympathetic magic. As the Baalim (through the actions of selected men) both symbolically and actually impregnated the sacred prostitutes in order to reproduce in kind, so also, it was believed, the Baalim (as gods of the weather and the Earth) would send the rains (often identified with semen) to the Earth so that it might yield abundant harvests of grains and fruits. Canaanite myths incorporating such fertility myths are represented in the mythological texts of the ancient city of Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra) in northern Syria; though the high god El and his consort are important as the first pair of the pantheon, Baal and his sexually passionate sister-consort are significant in the creation of the world and the renewal of nature.

The religion of the Canaanite agriculturalists proved to be a strong attraction to the less sophisticated and nomadic-oriented Israelite tribes. Many Israelites succumbed to the allurements of the fertility-laden rituals and practices of the Canaanite religion, partly because it was new and different from the Yahwistic religion and, possibly, because of a tendency of a rigorous faith and ethic to weaken under the influence of sexual attractions. As the Canaanites and the Israelites began to live in closer contact with each other, the faith of Israel tended to absorb some of the concepts and practices of the Canaanite religion. Some Israelites began to name their children after the Baalim; even one of the judges, Gideon, was also known by the name Jerubbaal ("Let Baal Contend").

As the syncretistic tendencies became further entrenched in the Israelite faith, the people began to lose the concept of their exclusiveness and their mission to be a witness to the nations, thus becoming weakened in resolve internally and liable to the oppression of other peoples."

Source: http://history-world.org/canaanite_culture_and_religion.htm

That is just one, minor source. I could go further, but that will do for the present.

Other than having sex with ritualistically, which may or may not have been forced upon the women, I dont know, what specifically about this merits murdering babies, or even adults?  You seem to be strengthening my position that genocide was commanded for no good reason, if there could even be a good reason for genocide.
[/quote]

 Note that in the original, I said that "ITS LIKE SAYING "The Islamic State is as bad as Hitler, etc." I'm not actually saying it. I'm saying "ITS LIKE SAYING IT". In reality, I compared the Aztecs to the Canaanites. So in point of fact, I did not use the Nazis at all. EPIC FAIL

A culture that indulges in wanton sexual ritual behaviour is highly likely to indulge in sexual depravity of every nature, and doesn't deserve to continue to exist. Ergo, elimination. The fact that they resisted the Israelites' entry into the Land also justifies their elimination. Granted, anybody might resist, but such is life. Shit happens. Waah fuckin' waah.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

If you will all refer to page ten of this thread, reply #187, you will witness a (presumably Youtube) spoof on ownership of the Land of Israel. Although intended to mock claims of Jewish ownership to the Land of Israel, I find it interesting that in fact, it actually confirms those claims. Observe the following:

1: Cavemen never claimed any ownership of the Land per se.
2: Neither did Egyptians. They simply ruled it.
3: Neither did ancient Canaanites have any unique claim on the Land as such. It was simply where they happened to live, again, like cavemen.
4: The Jews appear, and for the first time make a unique claim on the territory as their divine possession.
5:Along come Babylonians. They exile the Jews, but merely rule the place.
6. Along come Persians. They actually allowed the Jews to return. The song does not explore that part of history. Why, I don't know.
7. The Romans never wanted to claim the land as anything other than a possession. NO sane Roman EVER wanted to be sent there. Only Romans in disfavour, or Romans climbing their way up had to endure what they considered a hellhole.
8: The Byzantines had the same mindset as the Romans. The early Arabs treated land no different than the rest of their territories.
9: In the song Jews appear a second time. This is interesting. I'll save this for later. Note, they are the only ones historically that ever claimed the land uniquely as their own.
10: Along come Muslims, I assume. But the Qur'an even says in about eight places that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jews.
12: Along come armored Jews, unless I miss my guess. That is the third time they appear.
13: Arabs and Crusaders come along. Neither group ever wanted to live there. They just each considered the land holy for their own purposes.
14: Here come the Ottomans. They just wanted a Muslim Empire to stretch as far as it could, and cover the three Holy Places, of which Jerusalem was one.
15: Here come the British. They didn't want anything to do with this. They got handed a shit sandwich by the League of Nations and told to make it taste good on the way down, the poor bastards.
16: The Jews show up for the FOURTH time. Again, they are the only group that ever really WANTED to call the place home. Everyone else who ever lived there did so because he had to.
17: And finally, the State of Israel shows up. Jews for the FIFTH time.

So Arabs show up three or four times. Jews show up four or five times, depending on how you count. Ottomans are NOT Arabs, remember. And ONLY the Jews ever have a unique claim to the Land of Israel that makes it theirs to live in. The Arabs, and everyone else that ever lived there, lived there because they had to, not usually because they wanted to. Even the Qur'an states that Israel is the Land of the Jew. So, the song itself, rather than being anti-Semitic, which is its intent, actually ends up proving the Jewish claim, and making its own author looking like a schmuck. Smooth move, Nina. Better luck next time? Aside from the fact that the song ends in a nuclear blast, which hasn't happened.

[Rama Set]

Note that in the original, I said that "ITS LIKE SAYING "The Islamic State is as bad as Hitler, etc." I'm not actually saying it. I'm saying "ITS LIKE SAYING IT". In reality, I compared the Aztecs to the Canaanites. So in point of fact, I did not use the Nazis at all. EPIC FAIL

What ever makes you feel better.

A culture that indulges in wanton sexual ritual behaviour is highly likely to indulge in sexual depravity of every nature, and doesn't deserve to continue to exist. Ergo, elimination.

By that logic, you think Thailand should have genocide visited upon it?  Because they use penises in ways that you don't agree with?  And you think you are rational?

The fact that they resisted the Israelites' entry into the Land also justifies their elimination. Granted, anybody might resist, but such is life. Shit happens. Waah fuckin' waah.

How dare the Canaanites dare defend their home!  Did God give them warning that they should quietly leave the only home they have ever known?

[Rama Set]

If you will all refer to page ten of this thread, reply #187, you will witness a (presumably Youtube) spoof on ownership of the Land of Israel. Although intended to mock claims of Jewish ownership to the Land of Israel, I find it interesting that in fact, it actually confirms those claims. Observe the following:

1: Cavemen never claimed any ownership of the Land per se.

You don't know that.

2: Neither did Egyptians. They simply ruled it.

A distinction without a difference.

3: Neither did ancient Canaanites have any unique claim on the Land as such. It was simply where they happened to live, again, like cavemen.

Prove it.

4: The Jews appear, and for the first time make a unique claim on the territory as their divine possession.

Which no one cares about.

5:Along come Babylonians. They exile the Jews, but merely rule the place.

Again, distinction without a difference.

6. Along come Persians. They actually allowed the Jews to return. The song does not explore that part of history. Why, I don't know.
7. The Romans never wanted to claim the land as anything other than a possession. NO sane Roman EVER wanted to be sent there. Only Romans in disfavour, or Romans climbing their way up had to endure what they considered a hellhole.

I own my possessions.  Don't you?

8: The Byzantines had the same mindset as the Romans. The early Arabs treated land no different than the rest of their territories.

So they owned it.  I am seeing a theme here.

9: In the song Jews appear a second time. This is interesting. I'll save this for later. Note, they are the only ones historically that ever claimed the land uniquely as their own.

Again, why should anyone care?

10: Along come Muslims, I assume. But the Qur'an even says in about eight places that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jews.

Not anymore!

12: Along come armored Jews, unless I miss my guess. That is the third time they appear.

The genocidists return!

13: Arabs and Crusaders come along. Neither group ever wanted to live there. They just each considered the land holy for their own purposes.

Prove that no one wanted to live there.  What does that have to do with ownership anyway?  People are free to use their possessions as they see fit.

14: Here come the Ottomans. They just wanted a Muslim Empire to stretch as far as it could, and cover the three Holy Places, of which Jerusalem was one.

So they wanted it for divine reasons.  Sounds just as legit as the Jewish claim.

15: Here come the British. They didn't want anything to do with this. They got handed a shit sandwich by the League of Nations and told to make it taste good on the way down, the poor bastards.

Oh yeah, the Brits had a tough go of it.

16: The Jews show up for the FOURTH time. Again, they are the only group that ever really WANTED to call the place home. Everyone else who ever lived there did so because he had to.

The Jews have to as well, God said it's their home.

17: And finally, the State of Israel shows up. Jews for the FIFTH time.

Finally with a real arms supplier so that they can deal with all the pesky natives.

So Arabs show up three or four times. Jews show up four or five times, depending on how you count. Ottomans are NOT Arabs, remember. And ONLY the Jews ever have a unique claim to the Land of Israel that makes it theirs to live in. The Arabs, and everyone else that ever lived there, lived there because they had to, not usually because they wanted to. Even the Qur'an states that Israel is the Land of the Jew. So, the song itself, rather than being anti-Semitic, which is its intent, actually ends up proving the Jewish claim, and making its own author looking like a schmuck. Smooth move, Nina. Better luck next time?

So the Jews show up five times, always looking to kick out people that had a prior claim.  Got it.  Thanks for the history lesson.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

If you will all refer to page ten of this thread, reply #187, you will witness a (presumably Youtube) spoof on ownership of the Land of Israel. Although intended to mock claims of Jewish ownership to the Land of Israel, I find it interesting that in fact, it actually confirms those claims. Observe the following:

1: Cavemen never claimed any ownership of the Land per se.

You don't know that.

Cavemen were not likely to care, being more concerned with immediate needs of survival.

2: Neither did Egyptians. They simply ruled it.

A distinction without a difference.

But a distinction anyway.

3: Neither did ancient Canaanites have any unique claim on the Land as such. It was simply where they happened to live, again, like cavemen.

Prove it.

Unnecessary. God took care of that.

4: The Jews appear, and for the first time make a unique claim on the territory as their divine possession.

Which no one cares about.

Well, we are still here. They are not.

5:Along come Babylonians. They exile the Jews, but merely rule the place.

Again, distinction without a difference.

A distinction, nontheless.

6. Along come Persians. They actually allowed the Jews to return. The song does not explore that part of history. Why, I don't know.

7. The Romans never wanted to claim the land as anything other than a possession. NO sane Roman EVER wanted to be sent there. Only Romans in disfavour, or Romans climbing their way up had to endure what they considered a hellhole.

I own my possessions.  Don't you?

Irrelevant.

8: The Byzantines had the same mindset as the Romans. The early Arabs treated land no different than the rest of their territories.

So they owned it.  I am seeing a theme here.

Irrelevant.

9: In the song Jews appear a second time. This is interesting. I'll save this for later. Note, they are the only ones historically that ever claimed the land uniquely as their own.

Again, why should anyone care?

We are still here.

10: Along come Muslims, I assume. But the Qur'an even says in about eight places that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jews.

Not anymore!

Yes, it does. You ought to read the thing.

12: Along come armored Jews, unless I miss my guess. That is the third time they appear.

The genocidists return!

Ad hominem.

13: Arabs and Crusaders come along. Neither group ever wanted to live there. They just each considered the land holy for their own purposes.

Prove that no one wanted to live there.  What does that have to do with ownership anyway?  People are free to use their possessions as they see fit.

Again, No sane person during the Crusades on either side went there to stay. They went to fight, and go home with honour. Did an American go to Japan in the "40's to stay?

14: Here come the Ottomans. They just wanted a Muslim Empire to stretch as far as it could, and cover the three Holy Places, of which Jerusalem was one.

So they wanted it for divine reasons.  Sounds just as legit as the Jewish claim.

But again, not to live in.

15: Here come the British. They didn't want anything to do with this. They got handed a shit sandwich by the League of Nations and told to make it taste good on the way down, the poor bastards.

Oh yeah, the Brits had a tough go of it.

Whatever.

16: The Jews show up for the FOURTH time. Again, they are the only group that ever really WANTED to call the place home. Everyone else who ever lived there did so because he had to.

The Jews have to as well, God said it's their home.

But they want to.

17: And finally, the State of Israel shows up. Jews for the FIFTH time.

Finally with a real arms supplier so that they can deal with all the pesky natives.

What natives. "Palestinians" are not natives. They are interlopers on land that is not theirs. They always considered themselves part of Syria.

So Arabs show up three or four times. Jews show up four or five times, depending on how you count. Ottomans are NOT Arabs, remember. And ONLY the Jews ever have a unique claim to the Land of Israel that makes it theirs to live in. The Arabs, and everyone else that ever lived there, lived there because they had to, not usually because they wanted to. Even the Qur'an states that Israel is the Land of the Jew. So, the song itself, rather than being anti-Semitic, which is its intent, actually ends up proving the Jewish claim, and making its own author looking like a schmuck. Smooth move, Nina. Better luck next time?

So the Jews show up five times, always looking to kick out people that had a prior claim.  Got it.  Thanks for the history lesson.

My point is that no one ever had prior claims, or wanted to.  Waah fuckin' waah.

Note that in the original, I said that "ITS LIKE SAYING "The Islamic State is as bad as Hitler, etc." I'm not actually saying it. I'm saying "ITS LIKE SAYING IT". In reality, I compared the Aztecs to the Canaanites. So in point of fact, I did not use the Nazis at all. EPIC FAIL

What ever makes you feel better.

No comment.

A culture that indulges in wanton sexual ritual behaviour is highly likely to indulge in sexual depravity of every nature, and doesn't deserve to continue to exist. Ergo, elimination.

By that logic, you think Thailand should have genocide visited upon it?  Because they use penises in ways that you don't agree with?  And you think you are rational?

I am perfectly rational. I understand that there are alternative lifestyles in the world. But what the Canaanites pulled was beyond that. Aside from the fact that they also had Molech worship, such as human sacrifice, and other delightful things. This is confirmed by research outside of Scripture. And no, I am NOT going to go digging for sources. You can easily look this up just as I can. Go pay a visit to your public library.

The fact that they resisted the Israelites' entry into the Land also justifies their elimination. Granted, anybody might resist, but such is life. Shit happens. Waah fuckin' waah.

How dare the Canaanites dare defend their home!  Did God give them warning that they should quietly leave the only home they have ever known?

It was time for God's judgement, and no one gets out of that. I'm sorry, but shit happens. In fact, if the United States keeps going on her wayward path, I expect we will also face divine wrath and judgement, and I likewise expect that it won't be pretty. And guess what? IT WON'T BE PRETTY. SHIT HAPPENS. WAAH FUCKIN' WAAH.

It is possible that the reason such awful groups as ISIS exist is bring us back to righteous observance of God's Holy Word. Guns alone won't defeat these bastards. Only righteous living and proper fear of God will. Then guns will do the rest. We need to purify ourselves, and then go exterminate the fuckers. But we can't do that unless we are pure first. You don't like that, I expect. Tough shit. Sounds like a personal problem to me. Deal with it.

[Rama Set]

Cavemen were not likely to care, being more concerned with immediate needs of survival.

Still making things up that you don't know?

But a distinction anyway.

Do you know what the phrase even means?

Unnecessary. God took care of that.

The Jews did, by committing genocide.

Well, we are still here. They are not.

And no one cares about your claim.

A distinction, nontheless.

Look up what the phrase means.  Seriously.

Irrelevant.

We are talking about ownership aren't we?  Seems pretty germane actually.

Irrelevant.

Only if you want to live in denial.

We are still here.

And still making up stories about God.  *yawn*

Yes, it does. You ought to read the thing.

Not what I meant, but it does not matter.

Ad hominem.

I was not making an argument, just pointing how terrible the history of the Jews is.

Again, No sane person during the Crusades on either side went there to stay. They went to fight, and go home with honour. Did an American go to Japan in the "40's to stay?

Again, what does that have to do with the fact of ownership?

But again, not to live in.

Again, what does that have to do with the fact of ownership?

Whatever.

Whatever whatever.

But they want to.

But they have to.

What natives. "Palestinians" are not natives.

Neither are Jews.  The Canaanites were more native than the Jews.

They are interlopers on land that is not theirs. They always considered themselves part of Syria.

Wait, don't you think Palestinians are descended from the native Canaanites?

My point is that no one ever had prior claims, or wanted to.  Waah fuckin' waah.

I think the Canaanites do.

I am perfectly rational. I understand that there are alternative lifestyles in the world. But what the Canaanites pulled was beyond that. Aside from the fact that they also had Molech worship, such as human sacrifice, and other delightful things. This is confirmed by research outside of Scripture. And no, I am NOT going to go digging for sources. You can easily look this up just as I can. Go pay a visit to your public library.

If you can't prove it, that is fine.  Just withdraw your claim and stop trying to justify the murder of babies.

It was time for God's judgement, and no one gets out of that. I'm sorry, but shit happens. In fact, if the United States keeps going on her wayward path, I expect we will also face divine wrath and judgement, and I likewise expect that it won't be pretty. And guess what? IT WON'T BE PRETTY. SHIT HAPPENS. WAAH FUCKIN' WAAH.

It sounds just like the Holocaust.

It is possible that the reason such awful groups as ISIS exist is bring us back to righteous observance of God's Holy Word. Guns alone won't defeat these bastards. Only righteous living and proper fear of God will.

What a loving god that we must needs fear him to live well.

Then guns will do the rest. We need to purify ourselves, and then go exterminate the fuckers. But we can't do that unless we are pure first. You don't like that, I expect. Tough shit. Sounds like a personal problem to me. Deal with it.

Why can't you murder unless you are pure?  That does not make much sense.  You are right though that I don't like wanton extermination.  If you want to call that a personal problem, I am happy to find a psychiatrist and let them decide who has issues, you or me.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

Cavemen were not likely to care, being more concerned with immediate needs of survival.

Still making things up that you don't know?

Stupid response.

But a distinction anyway.

Do you know what the phrase even means?

Your response serves no purpose.

Unnecessary. God took care of that.

The Jews did, by committing genocide.

Ah, whatever.

Well, we are still here. They are not.

And no one cares about your claim.

We do, and we have enforced our claim. You don't like it, deal with it. No one cares what you think. Israel is here to stay.

A distinction, nontheless.

Look up what the phrase means.  Seriously.

A stupid response.

Irrelevant.

We are talking about ownership aren't we?  Seems pretty germane actually.

Not really.


Irrelevant.

Only if you want to live in denial.

Ah, whatever that means.

We are still here.

And still making up stories about God.  *yawn*

Another stupid response.

Yes, it does. You ought to read the thing.

Not what I meant, but it does not matter.

Ad hominem.

I was not making an argument, just pointing how terrible the history of the Jews is.

Given that EVERY single group on Earth has at one point exterminated somebody, I don't feel too bad. At least the Jews did it to people who essentially asked for it.

Again, No sane person during the Crusades on either side went there to stay. They went to fight, and go home with honour. Did an American go to Japan in the "40's to stay?

Again, what does that have to do with the fact of ownership?

Your point?

But again, not to live in.

Again, what does that have to do with the fact of ownership?

Your point?

Whatever.

Whatever whatever.

But they want to.

But they have to.

Irrelevant.

What natives. "Palestinians" are not natives.

Neither are Jews.  The Canaanites were more native than the Jews.

Ordered out, or eliminated by command of God. Problem solved. You don't like it? Waah fuckin' waah.

 They are interlopers on land that is not theirs. They always considered themselves part of Syria.

Wait, don't you think Palestinians are descended from the native Canaanites?

In part. and from Arabs. And the Canaanites didn't belong there after God ordered the Jews to drive them out or eliminate them, so...

My point is that no one ever had prior claims, or wanted to.  Waah fuckin' waah.

I think the Canaanites do.

Not after God ordered their expulsion or extermination. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH Fuckin' Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

I am perfectly rational. I understand that there are alternative lifestyles in the world. But what the Canaanites pulled was beyond that. Aside from the fact that they also had Molech worship, such as human sacrifice, and other delightful things. This is confirmed by research outside of Scripture. And no, I am NOT going to go digging for sources. You can easily look this up just as I can. Go pay a visit to your public library.

If you can't prove it, that is fine.  Just withdraw your claim and stop trying to justify the murder of babies.

A stupid response. You are full of them today.

It was time for God's judgement, and no one gets out of that. I'm sorry, but shit happens. In fact, if the United States keeps going on her wayward path, I expect we will also face divine wrath and judgement, and I likewise expect that it won't be pretty. And guess what? IT WON'T BE PRETTY. SHIT HAPPENS. WAAH FUCKIN' WAAH.

It sounds just like the Holocaust.

Whatever.

It is possible that the reason such awful groups as ISIS exist is bring us back to righteous observance of God's Holy Word. Guns alone won't defeat these bastards. Only righteous living and proper fear of God will.

What a loving god that we must needs fear him to live well.

And what a fool you are for not realising that humans should not act the fool, and deny the will of Creator, and violate even the basic Laws of Noah. Humanity has violated every shred of decency left to us. God WILL get his. He is a God of mercy, but one of Justice also. Those of you who fail to acknowledge that are the fools. I suggest growing up.

Then guns will do the rest. We need to purify ourselves, and then go exterminate the fuckers. But we can't do that unless we are pure first. You don't like that, I expect. Tough shit. Sounds like a personal problem to me. Deal with it.

Why can't you murder unless you are pure?  That does not make much sense.  You are right though that I don't like wanton extermination.  If you want to call that a personal problem, I am happy to find a psychiatrist and let them decide who has issues, you or me.

A psychiatrist would most likely be as twisted in the head as you are, and probably consider himself the master of all he surveys, just as you do. In other words, he, like you, would probably try to play God, at least, any psychiatrist you would recommend. So no, I don't think so.

Again, waah fuckin' waah.

[Ghost of V]

Yet another top-quality Yaakov rebuttal.

[Rama Set]

I actually don't know how to respond.  Literally.  He made such a mess of the quotes that I don't know what he is talking about.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

THAT I admit to. That is why I underlined everything I said. I apologise for that disaster.

[Lord Dave]

Actually, that is not what I said at all. What I said is that they all heard him speak. They did NOT necessarily understand what they heard. Again, your failure to comprehend the English language is your problem, not mine. I recommend basic literacy courses.

If you heard a norwegian speak, you'd have no idea what was said in your language, but you'd know what the words were.  Or at least the sounds.  And since Moses was writing all this AFTER it happened AND with God telling him to write it, the omission of the actual words are fairly considerable.  There is no reason to omit them.

MOSES SPOKE TO GOD. GOD THEN SPOKE TO MOSES. "19:19 And when the voice of the horn waxed louder and louder, Moses spoke, and God answered him by a voice."  The words may not have been intended for anyone other than Moses himself. It may have been that the Hebrews were intended to hear the voice, but not what it said.

Sam spoke to his Dog.  Dog then spoke to Sam.
See what I did there?

That is not what I said. One can recognise a voice but not know what it says. If I speak a bastardised French Creole and hear crisp Parisian French, I WILL hear a voice. But I may not understand what I am hearing. Do you not comprehend basic English when it is written? Perhaps your literacy needs to be re-evaluated?

1. Who cares about understanding.  If God said "Urala sa kuuurash!" I'd write it the fuck down, wouldn't you?  And since Moses was writing this after God said it, there shouldn't be any problem in putting what was said.

I am not admitting to being a schmuck at all. I am simply saying that anyone who says that variables don't exist is a schmuck. I have admitted that variables do exist. You are the one that says they don't. Ergo...

... .what variables?  You haven't spoken about ANY variables and have, in fact, regarded your work of text as factual.  Unchanging.  Not a variable.  And any time I introduce complications you literally don't care.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

Actually, that is not what I said at all. What I said is that they all heard him speak. They did NOT necessarily understand what they heard. Again, your failure to comprehend the English language is your problem, not mine. I recommend basic literacy courses.

If you heard a norwegian speak, you'd have no idea what was said in your language, but you'd know what the words were.  Or at least the sounds.  And since Moses was writing all this AFTER it happened AND with God telling him to write it, the omission of the actual words are fairly considerable.  There is no reason to omit them.

How do you know God told him to write what he said to him on that occasion?

MOSES SPOKE TO GOD. GOD THEN SPOKE TO MOSES. "19:19 And when the voice of the horn waxed louder and louder, Moses spoke, and God answered him by a voice."  The words may not have been intended for anyone other than Moses himself. It may have been that the Hebrews were intended to hear the voice, but not what it said.

Sam spoke to his Dog.  Dog then spoke to Sam.
See what I did there?

That is just a thoroughly stupid response, since God can speak, but dogs cannot.

That is not what I said. One can recognise a voice but not know what it says. If I speak a bastardised French Creole and hear crisp Parisian French, I WILL hear a voice. But I may not understand what I am hearing. Do you not comprehend basic English when it is written? Perhaps your literacy needs to be re-evaluated?

1. Who cares about understanding.  If God said "Urala sa kuuurash!" I'd write it the fuck down, wouldn't you?  And since Moses was writing this after God said it, there shouldn't be any problem in putting what was said.

Why would Moses write it down. Maybe it concerned no one other than God and Moses himself.

I am not admitting to being a schmuck at all. I am simply saying that anyone who says that variables don't exist is a schmuck. I have admitted that variables do exist. You are the one that says they don't. Ergo...

... .what variables?  You haven't spoken about ANY variables and have, in fact, regarded your work of text as factual.  Unchanging.  Not a variable.  And any time I introduce complications you literally don't care.

The variables about which I am speaking are not calling the text into question. They simply are acknowledging that questions of language, ie, who was speaking what language to whom, who was answering in what language, who heard a voice clearly, who heard it indistinctly, etc, are definitely present, and you are failing to acknowledge that. That makes you, in my mind at least, a schmuck.

Well, its been fun, but I have other responsibilities. I'll see you all tonight, or tomorrow. Ciao for now!

[Lord Dave]

Actually, that is not what I said at all. What I said is that they all heard him speak. They did NOT necessarily understand what they heard. Again, your failure to comprehend the English language is your problem, not mine. I recommend basic literacy courses.

If you heard a norwegian speak, you'd have no idea what was said in your language, but you'd know what the words were.  Or at least the sounds.  And since Moses was writing all this AFTER it happened AND with God telling him to write it, the omission of the actual words are fairly considerable.  There is no reason to omit them.

How do you know God told him to write what he said to him on that occasion?

He told him to write everything else.  Seems like a really weird thing to omit.

MOSES SPOKE TO GOD. GOD THEN SPOKE TO MOSES. "19:19 And when the voice of the horn waxed louder and louder, Moses spoke, and God answered him by a voice."  The words may not have been intended for anyone other than Moses himself. It may have been that the Hebrews were intended to hear the voice, but not what it said.

Sam spoke to his Dog.  Dog then spoke to Sam.
See what I did there?

That is just a thoroughly stupid response, since God can speak, but dogs cannot.

Yes they can.  Haven't you ever heard a dog Bark?  The command most commonly used to incite a single bark is: Speak.

Why would Moses write it down. Maybe it concerned no one other than God and Moses himself.

So the first words God spoke that the people of Israel heard were never recorded?  How odd.
In fact, I'm seeing a very firm lack of anything God actually said to the 2 million Jews.  He said a lot to Moses but none to them. 

The variables about which I am speaking are not calling the text into question. They simply are acknowledging that questions of language, ie, who was speaking what language to whom, who was answering in what language, who heard a voice clearly, who heard it indistinctly, etc, are definitely present, and you are failing to acknowledge that. That makes you, in my mind at least, a schmuck.

Oh I'm not failing at that.  I'm failing to understand why the all powerful God who was SPEAKING FROM A MOUNTAIN TOP would have a voice that Moses could understand clearly but the people standing mere feet away could not.  Especially when God was trying to prove himself for Moses's sake.  You'd think he would have just made his voice (which did not require physics BTW) to be heard and understood by everyone.

The more "evidence" you show me, the more this sounds like a sham.

"You heard the voice of God right?  That mubling, rumbling sound?  That was him talking to me. "

[beardo]

l2quotepls

[Yonah ben Amittai]

He told him to write everything else.  Seems like a really weird thing to omit.

Did he? How do you know?

Yes they can.  Haven't you ever heard a dog Bark?  The command most commonly used to incite a single bark is: Speak.

What is your point?




So the first words God spoke that the people of Israel heard were never recorded?  How odd.
In fact, I'm seeing a very firm lack of anything God actually said to the 2 million Jews.  He said a lot to Moses but none to them. 

He said that Moses would speak to him, and he would respond to Moses, and the people would hear his voice. He said nothing about them hearing what he said. I've quoted the passage several times. Reread it, again.

Oh I'm not failing at that.  I'm failing to understand why the all powerful God who was SPEAKING FROM A MOUNTAIN TOP would have a voice that Moses could understand clearly but the people standing mere feet away could not.  Especially when God was trying to prove himself for Moses's sake.  You'd think he would have just made his voice (which did not require physics BTW) to be heard and understood by everyone.

The more "evidence" you show me, the more this sounds like a sham.

"You heard the voice of God right?  That mubling, rumbling sound?  That was him talking to me. "

As I said, there are variables. Was God speaking in Hebrew? Was Moses? What were the Hebrews themselves speaking? Probably a bastardised Hebrew-Egyptian. Even the ones who DID hear it probably had no clue what was said. And even if they did, they likely had no way of writing it, since Moses was probably the only one who knew HOW to write, being the only one with any real education at all. You need to stop and think before opening your yap.

[Ghost of V]

l2quotepls

Might be better if he just stops using the quote function altogether, because he obviously doesn't understand how it works.


[ quote=yer name ] this is a quote. anything inside these two boxes is quoted material. your reponses should [ /quote]

go outside the boxes. like this.

[Yonah ben Amittai]

**GRIN* I understand it, but it is a bitch to work with. This website is NOT exactly user friendly. Oh, well. As long as I get my point across, that is what matters.